Overrated GAA Players

aidan24326

mickeyk wrote: »

Would agree that Michael was terribly unlucky in his career. A bit like JOD in my own county, he had a couple of excellent breakout years followed by one injury after the next. A real pity.

James O'Donoghue will be back though, and still has time. But yes there are similarities in terms of a hugely talented player being hampered by injuries.

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

no 3 cathal mccarron of tyrone :
in 2014 a mate of mine playing for clare kicked two points off the wing back in his brief spell in london (and forgettable), in a division 4 encounter ,my mate has since struggled to hold down a place in his club let alone his county side since mcarron returned home he is either getting booked or black carded , if the gaa ever wanted to spruce up the yellow card they could just hold up a guess who type card of mcarron and everyone would know the craic :pac:

all jokes aside while i still regard him as overrated i mean no offence to cathal and wish him all the best in his battle with gambling he has had a terrible few years

The thread is about players who are/were overrated, a player who is overly talked up in the media or given what is regarded as undue praise based on actual performances. Who ever talked up Cathal McCarron??? No-one that I can think of.

windy shepard henderson

in hurling i would go for

1 Jack guiney form wexford who had serious potential maybe still has but not at the moment

2 barry coughlan waterford : fouls far too much then spends the rest of the day realing on noel connors to get him out of trouble

3 have to go for a clare man here , Davey fitz ,in his early days as clare goal keeper he was out standing , but like cluxton when the talent was there he was on the money , found wanting when he didnt have the likes of seanie mcmahon to aim at anymore , unforgivable 5 minutes against cork in 2006 where he gifted cork 4 scores in injury time , and clare to miss out on an all ireland final that year

as manager did excellent every where he went at the early stages but has let something personal get in the way of progress every time since , : .......could have been a geniuses but alas.....:(

windy shepard henderson

[QUOTE=aidan24326;106344836).
The thread is about players who are/were overrated, a player who is overly talked up in the media or given what is regarded as undue praise based on actual performances. Who ever talked up Cathal McCarron??? No-one that I can think of.[/QUOTE]

i am basing him on actual performances he gets a yellow card every second game , his discipline is awful, he played against clare in division 4 3 years ago , for london and got cleaned , some smart arse would have probably added to why he was over there at the time so i tried to cover all the angles sorry

aidan24326

MentalMario wrote: »

Austin Gleeson is overrated. I'd say he's a nightmare to hurl with.

Gleeson is probably the definition of overrated, very talented but not a team player. He is a showboater and every long range point is matched by at least one stupid wide. In terms of decision making he'd have you pulling your hair out.

Sands81

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

in hurling i would go for

1 Jack guiney form wexford who had serious potential maybe still has but not at the moment

2 barry coughlan waterford : fouls far too much then spends the rest of the day realing on noel connors to get him out of trouble

3 have to go for a clare man here , Davey fitz ,in his early days as clare goal keeper he was out standing , but like cluxton when the talent was there he was on the money , found wanting when he didnt have the likes of seanie mcmahon to aim at anymore , unforgivable 5 minutes against cork in 2006 where he gifted cork 4 scores in injury time , and clare to miss out on an all ireland final that year

as manager did excellent every where he went at the early stages but has let something personal get in the way of progress every time since , : .......could have been a geniuses but alas.....:(

Not sure about Davey, agree with the puckouts against cork were awful in the 2005 semi final. I will never forget that day unfortunately. He still played with Seanie in 2006 when they lost to Kilkenny in the semi final. Not sure did any of them play much more for Clare after that. Overall I though he was a great goalie and deserves to be called one of the great goalies of the last 25 years.

jr86

aidan24326 wrote: »

Nobody had mentioned Joe Canning simply because he ISN'T overrated. He has been outstanding on every team he has played on, and is easily one of the most gifted hurlers to have played the game. Anyone who thinks Joe Canning is overrated is talking nonsense.

For much of the earlier part of his career he didn't have as many good players around him as he does now and was practically carrying the team, or at least trying to. He would walk onto any hurling team that there has ever been and would be one of the first names on any team sheet. If that's overrated then I don't know what a player has to do to not be overrated.

And what a lot of people won't see with Canning (there's more to hurling than a handful of matches a year in Croke Park) is that he is essentially single-handedly keeping Portumna relevant. He was their only scorer in their club Quarter Final this year

jr86

Charlie69 wrote: »

By the way, I also think Lar Corbett and Paudie Maher are both fantastic hurlers... this really is a stupid thread.

Agree Maher's inclusion really beats all.

Hardly surprising though, pretty much any big name in the country has been name-checked by now. Not a bad idea for a thread - in fairness to the OP - but unfortunately has turned into a "players I dislike" thread

MfMan

aidan24326 wrote: »

Gleeson is probably the definition of overrated, very talented but not a team player. He is a showboater and every long range point is matched by at least one stupid wide. In terms of decision making he'd have you pulling your hair out.

I do agree that the media (in particular) got carried away a bit with his performances v KK in 2016; he has struggled to match them since. He's still young enough to learn and develop his game however, as his talent and ability cannot be doubted. He does need a more settled and structured team around him to unlock his full potential, like any Gah player.

Paudie Maher is interesting. He has had many excellent games for Tipp and is a powerful hurler. I'd have him on the Galway team. Equally though, he has been poor at times, particularly when being played out of position, and can be defensively vulnerable. Always remember the point he conceded to Conor Whelan in '15 when he was lining up a big clearance only to be hooked.

Tell me how

jr86 wrote: »

Not a bad idea for a thread - in fairness to the OP - but unfortunately has turned into a "players I dislike" thread

I think as well as the tendency for people to suggest players they dislike, so too is the tendency for people to refuse to contemplate that a player who they like is overrated.
Considering and responding to the reasons someone has suggested someone would be better than just saying "You're wrong, you obviously just don't like them".

There is very little balanced "discussion" about the merits of a player just opposing opinions who think the other person is wrong and that's that.

blanch152

Tell me how wrote: »

I think as well as the tendency for people to suggest players they dislike, so too is the tendency for people to refuse to contemplate that a player who they like is overrated.
Considering and responding to the reasons someone has suggested someone would be better than just saying "You're wrong, you obviously just don't like them".

There is very little balanced "discussion" about the merits of a player just opposing opinions who think the other person is wrong and that's that.

Another problem is that we don't have an agreed yardstick of how players are rated. Some, including myself, have suggested the number of All-Stars, individual awards etc. as a way of objectively measuring how a player is rated. It has the advantage of a transparent measure of how a player is rated.

It has the disadvantage of excluding less successful counties. How many times do you hear about a player from a lesser county....if he played for Dublin or Kerry, he would have won x medals and y awards. That could also be an over-rating.

But if we don't agree on how highly a player is rated, then how can we discuss whether that is over-rated?

danganabu

blanch152 wrote: »

But if we don't agree on how highly a player is rated, then how can we discuss whether that is over-rated?

That's it in a nutshell, there are some players been named here and to be fair nobody rates them so how they can be considered overrated is bizzare.

Tell me how

blanch152 wrote: »

But if we don't agree on how highly a player is rated, then how can we discuss whether that is over-rated?

It could just be an open discussion. Even with All Stars, there is room for debate (Brian Whelahan would have an opinion on this).
You mention a player, give your reasons why you think they are overrated, someone says they agree or disagree and gives reasons why and so on.

Things like, "Sure your from x county", "You're mad lad", "He's nothing but dirt", "This is a stupid thread (because I disagree with someones opinion)" don't add any value do they. If you think the thread is stupid, unfollow and forget about it.

It's the conversation that should be interesting, not just getting to an agreed list at the end, which will not happen.

robbiezero

blanch152 wrote: »

Another problem is that we don't have an agreed yardstick of how players are rated. Some, including myself, have suggested the number of All-Stars, individual awards etc. as a way of objectively measuring how a player is rated. It has the advantage of a transparent measure of how a player is rated.

It has the disadvantage of excluding less successful counties. How many times do you hear about a player from a lesser county....if he played for Dublin or Kerry, he would have won x medals and y awards. That could also be an over-rating.

But if we don't agree on how highly a player is rated, then how can we discuss whether that is over-rated?

Can discuss where we perceive the player to be rated.
e.g. Joe Canning. This is my perception of how he is rated:

Within own County
Regarded as one of the greatest Galway hurlers of all time and would make any "Best of all time Galway XV". I would agree with this.

Team of Current Decade
He would be regarded as making the current team of the decade. I would agree with this.

Team of his generation
I am going to go with current century for "generation". So competing with the likes of Shefflin, Kelly, Mullane, Larkin etc
This one is arguable, he would be rated this highly by some, not by others.
I think he might well deserve this rating by the end of his career,
but while close, just not quite at the moment.

Team of All Time
Ring, Mackey, the Doyles, Shefflin, Keher etc
I dont think he is generally rated this highly at the moment and I dont rate him that highly either so I dont think he is overrated here.


For me the above would largely apply to Padraig Maher also.

blue note

robbiezero wrote: »

Regarded as one of the greatest Galway hurlers of all time and would make any "Best of all time Galway XI". I would agree with this.

:eek:

robbiezero

blue note wrote: »

:eek:

Name your 6 Galway forwards on the all-time XI.

blue note

robbiezero wrote: »

Name your 6 Galway forwards on the all-time XI.

It was the XI bit I was eeking about.

robbiezero

blue note wrote: »

It was the XI bit I was eeking about.

Ah ****e. Good spot.

danganabu

blue note wrote: »

:eek:

blue note wrote: »

It was the XI bit I was eeking about.

robbiezero wrote: »

Name your 6 Galway forwards on the all-time XI.

Feck the pair of ye, I was racking my brains trying to come up with a six, got as far as one

robbiezero

danganabu wrote: »

Feck the pair of ye, I was racking my brains trying to come up with a six, got as far as one

Was it Joe Canning :pac:?

danganabu

robbiezero wrote: »

Was it Joe Canning :pac:?

The other Joe

MfMan

If I must;

JC
Joe snr
K Broderick

PJ Molloy
John Connolly
E Cloonan

Gardner

Lee Chin, Anthony Nash and most of corks Munster winning team of last year actually.

previously, the rock

danganabu

Gardner wrote: »

previously, the rock

Great shout, the regard that he is held in had very little to do with his actual hurling. He could be getting raosted all day but would then come bursting out, land a full forard on his arse and drive the ball 100 yards and the commentators would be fawning over him.

Whiteladder

danganabu wrote: »

Great shout, the regard that he is held in had very little to do with his actual hurling. He could be getting raosted all day but would then come bursting out, land a full forard on his arse and drive the ball 100 yards and the commentators would be fawning over him.

Pretty much an olden day version of Padraic Maher so.

aidan24326

blanch152 wrote: »

It has the disadvantage of excluding less successful counties. How many times do you hear about a player from a lesser county....if he played for Dublin or Kerry, he would have won x medals and y awards. That could also be an over-rating.

This is a fair point. Like most people would agree that Declan Browne was a superbly talented footballer. But we never got to see him perform in the red hot pressure of an All-Ireland semi final or final, and I think he only ever played in Croke Park a couple of times.

Not his fault of course but normally we judge 'great' players by what they do on the big stage and Browne never really got to play on the big stage. Personally I think he would probably have been very good on any stage but ultimately we'll never know how he would have performed on the big day as he never got that chance.

Crash Bang Wall

Powerhouse wrote: »

I notice that Stephen Cluxton, Diarmuid Connolly, Michael Dara McAuley and Ciaran Kilkenny have all featured in the over-rated lists. That's almost a third of the Dublin team and I imagine there's more to come.

It makes you wonder who people think are responsible for Dublin's five recent All Ireland titles.

McAuley is without a doubt over rated.....skill level is shocking

Re Kilkenny, hes a class act, but hes restricted by Gavins system, and its almost engrained in him to handpass the ball rather than try and create something.

AOS is the most over rated that I can think of at present......how he got an All Star in 2017 is beyond me.

Doctors room ghost

Meltdown Cluxton.once the head goes he’s liable to do anything.solid enough player on average but once his feathers get ruffled he’ll go kicking over sidelines or straight to opposition.

danganabu

Thread is going from silly to farcical

cms88

blanch152 wrote: »

Over-rated players?

Well, 7 Mayo players won an All-Star last year despite not winning a single title and barely escaping relegation from Division 1. By any objective grounds, some of them must be over-rated.

Diarmuid Connolly? The man has won 2 All-Stars. Is that over-rated? I don't think so for a man of his talents. Has he delivered as much as his talent deserves? No, he has been disappointing on occasions but still worthy of the two All-Stars.

Cillian O'Connor? Well, he won two Young Player of the Year awards yet he has managed to miss important frees in important matches over the last few years. Over-rated? Based on those objective facts, definitely.

David Clarke? Again, won the last two goal-keeping All-Stars, yet arguably has been the man responsible for Mayo losing the last two All-Irelands. His kicking meltdown in the drawn game in 2016 saw him replaced with a lesser goalkeeper but better kicker who threw away that All-Ireland. In 2017, with two men free on the Hogan Stand Side, he kicked the last kick-out over the Cusack Stand sideline. Probably the most over-rated player in the country.

Stephen Cluxton? This suggestion makes me laugh. Five All-Ireland medals, four of them captaining his team, three rule changes because of his play, hard to over-rate him, giving the scale of those achievements.

Other contenders? Colm Boyle and Keith Higgins have won four All-Stars and no All-Irelands. Are they the players with the most All-Stars for zero Celtic Crosses? That would make them over-rated by any normal standard.

Kevin McManamon? Now, this is a Dublin player who could be both over-rated and under-appreciated. He has never been good enough apart from one season to hold down a starting place for Dublin in the Championship, yet if you want a player to come off the bench and run at tiring defences, there is nobody better out there.

I wonder where you're from :rolleyes:

cms88

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

One thing I will say about Cluxton is that he probably gets too much credit for the Dublin kickouts. These need to be practiced, coached and involve the movement of several players. Of course they need accurate kickouts but that is only one cog in the wheel and Cluxton probably gets a certain amount of undue praise for that

But i thought he invented the kick out?