Overrated GAA Players

Clonmel1000

Fabian Creamy Hairdressing wrote: »

Snow has me bored stiff so said I'd try get a thread going, hope this doesn't count as player bashing I think it's a discussion worth having. I have immense respect for all of our amateur sportsmen and it would be great if all posters treat them the same if they are going to comment.

I see many people talking about Lar Corbett after the Laochra Gael last night, but I always felt he was overrated. Had a great day in 2010 (and fair play to him), but I think this is the main reason why he's rated so highly, he rarely reached these heights otherwise.

From a football POV I can't help but feel Stephen Cluxton's influence on the Dublin team is overstated, along with the assertion that he "revolutionised the position of goalkeeper". A fine steady keeper with very accurate kickouts, an important cog in the Dublin machine, but no more important than the other 14 in my opinion.

What do you think?

Lar has a super 09 final. He scored 4-4 in the 2011 Munster Final. Hatrick in 09 All Ireland semi final Tipps all time top goal scorer. And you think Lar rarely reached heights and was over rated?

Poor_old_gill

Fabian Creamy Hairdressing wrote: »

Is Cadogan still even rated? I'm a Cork man and haven't rated him for years. Brian Hurley has been destroyed by injuries don't think he approached his potential at all.

From my own county I feel Aidan Walsh is ridiculously overrated. His fitness levels these days are shocking.

Jeez I forgot about Cadogan- he is absolutely mince!
I watched one Munster final where he got roasted by 3 different players- they kept on moving him off lads and whoever he went onto roasted him- it was kinda hilarious

djPSB

Michael Dara McAuley. The skill level of a Junior B footballer.

Shows how far football has fallen when he can win footballer of the year.

Urindanger

Fabian Creamy Hairdressing wrote: »

Is Cadogan still even rated? I'm a Cork man and haven't rated him for years. Brian Hurley has been destroyed by injuries don't think he approached his potential at all.

From my own county I feel Aidan Walsh is ridiculously overrated. His fitness levels these days are shocking.

Not sure many would rate him that highly any more beyond a little sentimental value, if that's the right word. Aidan Walsh is simply burnt out I feel. I couldn't imagine the mileage he's put in over the years but I'd wager it's up there with anyone else in the country. Dublin would want to be careful with Con O Callaghan or they might only get a few more years out him.

If Walsh wasn't playing football he was playing hurling. If he wasn't playing for Cork he was playing for Duhallow. If he wasn't playing for them he was playing for Kanturk.

Always felt it was a shame Cork hurling was in a bit of a state when he was around his best. I always rated him as a more natural hurler than footballer.

0byme75341jo28

Urindanger wrote: »

Not sure many would rate him that highly any more beyond a little sentimental value, if that's the right word. Aidan Walsh is simply burnt out I feel. I couldn't imagine the mileage he's put in over the years but I'd wager it's up there with anyone else in the country. Dublin would want to be careful with Con O Callaghan or they might only get a few more years out him.

If Walsh wasn't playing football he was playing hurling. If he wasn't playing for Cork he was playing for Duhallow. If he wasn't playing for them he was playing for Kanturk.

Always felt it was a shame Cork hurling was in a bit of a state when he was around his best. I always rated him as a more natural hurler than footballer.

Good point about Walsh in fairness. He was class in his early 20s but took a complete nosedive in the past few years, he always struck me as a great GAA man though with all the matches he plays

Powerhouse

Fabian Creamy Hairdressing wrote: »

I see many people talking about Lar Corbett after the Laochra Gael last night, but I always felt he was overrated. Had a great day in 2010 (and fair play to him), but I think this is the main reason why he's rated so highly, he rarely reached these heights otherwise.

From a football POV I can't help but feel Stephen Cluxton's influence on the Dublin team is overstated, along with the assertion that he "revolutionised the position of goalkeeper". A fine steady keeper with very accurate kickouts, an important cog in the Dublin machine, but no more important than the other 14 in my opinion.

What do you think?

I'd have thought that Corbett is underrated if anything. He has more championship goals than Henry Shefflin, Eddie Brennan or Richie Power who played in a team which won the All Ireland nearly every year often by hitting very big scores, and racked up huge margins against Offaly and Wexford as well.

Three goals in an All Ireland and four in a Munster Final is fair going. He also scored goals in four Munster Finals. Not too many have done that in the last 30 years I'd say. And as has been mentioned his performance in the 2009 All Ireland final was a wonder.

The point is though that we rarely hear him talked up. You can argue he was no good which is a personal opinion, but you can hardly say he was overrated. Who are these people who are overrating him?

As for Cluxton, it might be that you are underestimating the importance of an accurate kickout in modern football. But you could argue he is overrated. At least there is a legitimate case for that in the first place that he is widely highly rated. You tend not to hear that of Corbett. Whether one agrees with you about Cluxton or not at least there is the basis of a genuine discussion there.

threeball

Diarmuid O Connor. How he won young player of the year is anyone's guess. Barely intercounty standard.

glasagusban

Kilkenny and Connolly. Keegan marking either of them makes them obsolete.

nice_guy80

threeball wrote: »

Diarmuid O Connor. How he won young player of the year is anyone's guess. Barely intercounty standard.

goes around looking for a fight or hitting lads, then tries to get opponents carded.

Fr Tod Umptious

threeball wrote: »

Diarmuid O Connor. How he won young player of the year is anyone's guess. Barely intercounty standard.

He won it twice !

sightband

glasagusban wrote: »

Kilkenny and Connolly. Keegan marking either of them makes them obsolete.

Who have 9 all Ireland medals between them compared to Keegans none, okey dokey

seligehgit

threeball wrote: »

Diarmuid O Connor. How he won young player of the year is anyone's guess. Barely intercounty standard.

Barely inter county standard.:eek:

In his breakthrough year 2015 he was outstanding up the semi final replay.He was a tad fortuitous to retain the young POTY in 2016 as he was suffering with injuries most especially post Emmet Bolton's late tackle in the championship qualifier.There was an element of burnout to his loss of form.I believe he won that award largely based on his early season form where he was instrumental in the under 21 All Ireland,form he carried strongly through to that Kildare game.A lack of alternatives and the fact Mayo went to the wire with Dublin in the All Ireland replay swung the award his way.Longevity in the championship was a key factor.He is starting to show a return to form after a significant slump but needs to threaten the scoreboard more.

IMO there's no doubt Dean Rock is the currently the preeminent free taker in the country.Cillian O Connor used to assume that mantle but has gone off the boil and missed those frees that make great players.

Can't say I believe the Shefflin's,Corbett's and Gooch's of this world are overrated,ditto all those heavily decorated Dublin footballers Connolly etc.O Sullivan and Kilkenny are wonderful footballers but their roles in recent years have tempered our ability to extol their virtues.

I really rate the much maligned Michael Dara McAuley,I've seen on numerous occasions most especially in All Ireland finals and semi finals what he brings to the plate.He was a worthy POTY in 2013.

I'd probably rate Flynn ahead of Connolly.

Until the mentioned Mayo players win a celtic cross they won't be in the pantheon of champions.

MactheKnife90

I was going to get involved but the Cluxton comments done it for me. Everyone has an opinion but come on now lads get the aul thinking caps on there now.

Poor_old_gill

nice_guy80 wrote: »

goes around looking for a fight or hitting lads, then tries to get opponents carded.

Yeah- himself and his brother are ridiculous for that carry on

Powerhouse

I notice that Stephen Cluxton, Diarmuid Connolly, Michael Dara McAuley and Ciaran Kilkenny have all featured in the over-rated lists. That's almost a third of the Dublin team and I imagine there's more to come.

It makes you wonder who people think are responsible for Dublin's five recent All Ireland titles.

yop

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

He won it twice !

Yup. Logic doesn't exist.

I'm with MactheKnife on this one. Some of the so called overrated players shows the level of football experts we have here. Anyone who thinks Cluxton or Michael Murphy is over rated needs their head examined.

The_Honeybadger

Powerhouse wrote: »

I notice that Stephen Cluxton, Diarmuid Connolly, Michael Dara McAuley and Ciaran Kilkenny have all featured in the over-rated lists. That's almost a third of the Dublin team and I imagine there's more to come.

It makes you wonder who people think are responsible for Dublin's five recent All Ireland titles.

You can be a top class player and still be overrated. I mentioned Connolly, I would never deny that he is a wonderful player with great skill. My point was that he gets away with a lot of fairly anonymous performances because his highlights reel is good and the fact that Dublin usually win well anyway. There are at least a half dozen dubs who are far more important to that team, yet Connolly is regarded as the best player in the country by many. I just don’t think he is as good as some people make out.

To those saying you can’t be a great player until you win an All Ireland I wouldn’t agree. Conor McManus or Lee Keegan might never win one for example but they are great players that would make any team.

Powerhouse

mickeyk wrote: »

You can be a top class player and still be overrated. I mentioned Connolly, I would never deny that he is a wonderful player with great skill. My point was that he gets away with a lot of fairly anonymous performances because his highlights reel is good and the fact that Dublin usually win well anyway. There are at least a half dozen dubs who are far more important to that team, yet Connolly is regarded as the best player in the country by many. I just don’t think he is as good as some people make out.

To those saying you can’t be a great player until you win an All Ireland I wouldn’t agree. Conor McManus or Lee Keegan might never win one for example but they are great players that would make any team.

Who are the half a dozen plus Dublin players more important than Connolly? And in what way are the "more important"? It just seems a very subjective vague and difficult to measure category.

The_Honeybadger

Powerhouse wrote: »

Who are the half a dozen plus Dublin players more important than Connolly? And in what way are the "more important"? It just seems a very subjective vague and difficult to measure category.

Down through the years Cluxton, Fenton, Brogan, Flynn, O’Sullivan and Kilkenny and you could make strong arguments for others like Mccaffery. None of the above have the natural ability that Diarmuid Connolly has, but they are more consistent and would be missed more if they weren’t playing IMO. I would take any of the above over Connolly if I was looking to improve my team.

You are right in that It is difficult to measure and subjective, but this is a discussion forum where people offer their opinions. I’m not asking anybody to agree with me.

Please also consider the context, Connolly was considered the best player in the country for a couple of years. I just don’t think he has stood out in big games often enough to justify that reputation, and that’s before we even get in to all the daft suspensions.

I don’t consider any of the other Dublin players to be overrated personally.

Powerhouse

mickeyk wrote: »

Down through the years Cluxton, Fenton, Brogan, Flynn, O’Sullivan and Kilkenny and you could make strong arguments for others like Mccaffery. None of the above have the natural ability that Diarmuid Connolly has, but they are more consistent and would be missed more if they weren’t playing IMO. I would take any of the above over Connolly if I was looking to improve my team.

You are right in that It is difficult to measure and subjective, but this is a discussion forum where people offer their opinions. I’m not asking anybody to agree with me.

Please also consider the context, Connolly was considered the best player in the country for a couple of years. I just don’t think he has stood out in big games often enough to justify that reputation, and that’s before we even get in to all the daft suspensions.

I don’t consider any of the other Dublin players to be overrated personally.

I think you have made a powerful case that Connolly is not overrated by saying that Bernard Brogan, who has not been first choice for Dublin for a while, is more important to the team at this stage.

The_Honeybadger

Powerhouse wrote: »

I think you have made a powerful case that Connolly is not overrated by saying that Bernard Brogan, who has not been first choice for Dublin for a while, is more important to the team at this stage.

That’s just being pedantic. Read the first line of my post again, I said down through the years. I am aware that Bernard is no longer first choice and is injured in any case.

Powerhouse

mickeyk wrote: »

That’s just being pedantic. Read the first line of my post again, I said down through the years. I am aware that Bernard is no longer first choice and is injured in any case.

I assumed when you mentioned Brian Fenton, a player with just three championship seasons played, you were not being so long-term.

You might not think Connolly is much good. That's a fair enough opinion but absolute proof that he is not overrated comes in the fact that after 11 championships, five of which saw him win an All-Ireland medal he has only two All-Star awards. By contrast Bernard Brogan won the Footballer of the Year award before he even played in an All Ireland final. Connolly could move mountains and there's no way he'd be given such an award in such circumstances.

jam83

yop wrote: »

Yup. Logic doesn't exist.

I'm with MactheKnife on this one. Some of the so called overrated players shows the level of football experts we have here. Anyone who thinks Cluxton or Michael Murphy is over rated needs their head examined.

It's a matter of opinion. Murphy has the physique and talent but I can't remember watching many or even any games in the last few years and thinking afterwards that he was just unreal. He's spoken about as one of the best footballers in Ireland but does he show it?

The_Honeybadger

Powerhouse wrote: »

I assumed when you mentioned Brian Fenton, a player with just three championship seasons played, you were not being so long-term.

You might not think Connolly is much good. That's a fair enough opinion but absolute proof that he is not overrated comes in the fact that after 11 championships, five of which saw him win an All-Ireland medal he has only two All-Star awards. By contrast Bernard Brogan won the Footballer of the Year award before he even played in an All Ireland final. Connolly could move mountains and there's no way he'd be given such an award in such circumstances.

Ah here, you’re twisting what I am saying now, I never said he wasn’t much good, just that he gets too much credit at times. That’s not the same thing. He is a brilliant footballer and I would never claim otherwise.

And I am not basing my opinion on awards, more on the reputation he enjoyed for years as the best player in the country. I am not claiming you ever said this but many others held this view, and it’s one that I don’t happen to agree with.

And why wouldn’t I include Fenton in a comparison, he has three All Ireland winning seasons where he was instrumental in the success, more so than Connolly. Both he and Brogan have had careers that overlap with Connollys so I think it’s valid to include both.

Powerhouse

mickeyk wrote: »

And I am not basing my opinion on awards, more on the reputation he enjoyed for years as the best player in the country. I am not claiming you ever said this but many others held this view, and it’s one that I don’t happen to agree with.

The problem with this is that if you are going to disregard an objective measure such as awards I cannot relate to "the reputation he enjoyed for years as the best player in the country". I just an utterly unaware of this as any kind of mass movement of opinion.

Fabian Creamy Hairdressing

Fabian Creamy Hairdressing wrote: »

Snow has me bored stiff so said I'd try get a thread going, hope this doesn't count as player bashing I think it's a discussion worth having. I have immense respect for all of our amateur sportsmen and it would be great if all posters treat them the same if they are going to comment.

I see many people talking about Lar Corbett after the Laochra Gael last night, but I always felt he was overrated. Had a great day in 2010 (and fair play to him), but I think this is the main reason why he's rated so highly, he rarely reached these heights otherwise.

From a football POV I can't help but feel Stephen Cluxton's influence on the Dublin team is overstated, along with the assertion that he "revolutionised the position of goalkeeper". A fine steady keeper with very accurate kickouts, an important cog in the Dublin machine, but no more important than the other 14 in my opinion.

What do you think?

Lar is Tipps record goalscorer to date??

The_Honeybadger

Powerhouse wrote: »

The problem with this is that if you are going to disregard an objective measure such as awards I cannot relate to "the reputation he enjoyed for years as the best player in the country". I just an utterly unaware of this as any kind of mass movement of opinion.

If you are unaware of the genral regard that he is held in then there isn’t much point debating further. You must not read papers, watch games on RTE, or ever look at the Dublin thread here.

This thread is about overrated players, not about how many all stars or POTY awards fellas have. Will leave it at that as I’m not bothered responding to your nitpicking any further.

Powerhouse

mickeyk wrote: »

If you are unaware of the genral regard that he is held in then there isn’t much point debating further. You must not read papers, watch games on RTE, or ever look at the Dublin thread here.

This thread is about overrated players, not about how many all stars or POTY awards fellas have. Will leave it at that as I’m not bothered responding to your nitpicking any further

But this isn't a debate. A debate suggests arguments out forward to reach a conclusion. You seem to have a conclusion decided already and consistently refuse to engage with any evidence.

Objective (like what do you expect to find on a particular county's thread?!) measures of recognition such as All Stars would be clung to limpet-like by you if they bolstered your view but they don't.

One small case study: Mike McCarthy played less years for Kerry that Connolly has for Dublin. He has less All Irelands, less provincial titles, less National League, had a far lower profile, and never kicked a ball for his club outside of Kerry unlike Connolly who won 2 All Ireland club titles. But McCarthy has more All Stars than Connolly who you appear to think many regard as the best footballer in Ireland?!

Connolly is more likely underrated (probably because he not a nice unthreatening freckly Kerry or Mayo player) than overrated.

sightband

mickeyk wrote: »

You can be a top class player and still be overrated.

This statement makes my brain hurt

BENDYBINN

threeball wrote: »

Diarmuid O Connor. How he won young player of the year is anyone's guess. Barely intercounty standard.

Diving Diarmuid has a very simple tactic,wins ball and crashes to ground hitting an opponent on the way. Free in to mayo works all the time!