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Is someone within their rights to move you out of a prebooked seat?

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    #272
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Well the issue is the ID is not been entered early enough before boarding or the train software is the issue and the process to load names. The ID is related to audit announcements as well?

    Drivers won;t enter an ID in the middle of a journey unless they haven't so clearly the ID aspect isn't the core issue here.

    The issue is that you don't know but assuming.


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    #273
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    PeterParker957 wrote: »
    I don't get why sometimes they're there immediately and on a few occasions as I alight the train almost an hour later, they're only just being displayed.

    IT issues or did the driver forget ???

    Wi fi issues.


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    #274
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Emme wrote: »
    There are people who pay for that sort of thing, if you were good enough at it you could earn enough to buy yourself a chauffeur driven limo and you wouldn't have to take the train.

    Flat rate? 😀


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    #275
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    All the people who say they would demand an inspector be called, what do they think would happen then? Inspector will demand you move and give seat to person who books. If you refuse they will get police to eject you at next stop. What’s your next move?


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    #276
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,682 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    joeguevara wrote: »
    All the people who say they would demand an inspector be called, what do they think would happen then? Inspector will demand you move and give seat to person who books. If you refuse they will get police to eject you at next stop. What’s your next move?

    Well as your are not breaking the law, what could the guards remove you for...


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    #277
    Jack Kanoff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,119 ✭✭✭Jack Kanoff


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Well as your are not breaking the law, what could the guards remove you for...

    Failing to comply with instruction of an Irish rail official, private property and well within their right to eject uku or call the Gardai .


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    #278
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,682 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Jack Kanoff wrote: »
    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Well as your are not breaking the law, what could the guards remove you for...

    Failing to comply with instruction of an Irish rail official, private property and well within their right to eject uku or call the Gardai .

    The inspector would need to provide notice of the reservation. The customers ticket would not be sufficient.

    Anyway Irish Rail pfficals have no interest dealin with such issues.


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    #279
    Jack Kanoff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,119 ✭✭✭Jack Kanoff


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    The inspector would need to provide notice of the reservation. The customers ticket would not be sufficient.

    Anyway Irish Rail pfficals have no interest dealin with such issues.

    The customers ticket is the contract,


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    #280
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,682 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Jack Kanoff wrote: »
    The customers ticket is the contract,

    Yes and Irish Rail are failing to honor the contract with a failing reservation system. The contract is not between the reservation holder and the person sitting in a seat provided there is no reservation system or notice on display.


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    #281
    Jack Kanoff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,119 ✭✭✭Jack Kanoff


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Yes and Irish Rail are failing to honor the contract with a failing reservation system. The contract is not between the reservation holder and the person sitting in a seat provided there is no reservation system or notice on display.

    Incorrect, the name over the seat is not part of the contract.


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    #282
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,682 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Jack Kanoff wrote: »
    Incorrect, the name over the seat is not part of the contract.

    Read back to my link, CIE bylaws require notice of a reservation to be provided and only when such notice is provided is the seat legally reserved. Irish Rail have gone and adopted online booking without getting their laws updated.


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    #283
    Jack Kanoff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,119 ✭✭✭Jack Kanoff


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Read back to my link, CIE bylaws require notice of a reservation to be provided and only when such notice is provided is the seat legally reserved. Irish Rail have gone and adopted online booking without getting their laws updated.

    The name does not have to be displayed over the seat, it's that simple.


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    #284
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,682 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Jack Kanoff wrote: »
    The name does not have to be displayed over the seat, it's that simple.

    I didn't say the name was needed. "Notice" is whats needed.....


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    #285
    The Moldy Gowl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,889 ✭✭✭✭The Moldy Gowl


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Yes and Irish Rail are failing to honor the contract with a failing reservation system. The contract is not between the reservation holder and the person sitting in a seat provided there is no reservation system or notice on display.

    No. It's just that person being a stubborn bollox.

    Dunno why people want to push the blame onto Irish rail for themselves having a piss poor attitude towards other people. It's just deflection.


    Why can't we just all have the cop on to realise your seat may be reserved and if someone comes up to you, just say ya grand mate, was hoping it wasn't.
    Do we really need a light to tell us this.

    Don't go to the first 2 carriages. I seat in the last carriage and there is always seats at 5.25 Dublin to limerick or if not, there will be once the kildare commuters get off in 30 minutes.


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    #286
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    Jack Kanoff wrote: »
    The customers ticket is the contract,

    A ticket is not a contract, it's merely a receipt of a contract made and proof of travel, however if we are going to delve into the legal world of contracts it should be noted that all contracts are subject to their T&Cs.


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Yes and Irish Rail are failing to honor the contract with a failing reservation system.

    The T&Cs applicable specifically actually say IE are not obligued to give you any particular seat or indeed any seat at all even with a reservation, as such failure to provide a seat or any seat does not impose any liability for a failure to honour a contract.

    As such no "right" to any particular seat is created.


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    #287
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    The inspector would need to provide notice of the reservation. The customers ticket would not be sufficient.

    Anyway Irish Rail pfficals have no interest dealin with such issues.

    Name and seat number is on the ticket which is enough..

    Did you ask them if they have any interest or is that just another of your assumptions which you try to disguise as knowledge?


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    #288
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    GM228 wrote: »
    A ticket is not a contract, it's merely a receipt of a contract made, however if we are going to delve into the legal world of contracts it should be noted that all contracts are subject to their T&Cs.





    The T&Cs applicable specifically actually say IE are not obligued to give you any particular seat or indeed any seat at all even with a reservation, as such failure to provide a seat or any seat does not impose any liability for a failure to honour a contract.

    As such no "right" to any particular seat is created.

    Why do they give a refund if your seat wasn't available to you?


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    #289
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Jack Kanoff wrote: »
    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Well as your are not breaking the law, what could the guards remove you for...

    Failing to comply with instruction of an Irish rail official, private property and well within their right to eject uku or call the Gardai .

    The inspector would need to provide notice of the reservation. The customers ticket would not be sufficient.

    Anyway Irish Rail pfficals have no interest dealin with such issues.

    Name and seat number is on the ticket which is enough..

    Legally it is not enough in relation to the scenario Jamie2k9 responded to.


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    #290
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,682 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    Why do they give a refund if your seat wasn't available to you?

    Because they would lose a lot of customers...
    Name and seat number is on the ticket which is enough..

    Did you ask them if they have any interest or is that just another of your assumptions which you try to disguise as knowledge?

    Well its not and no, very few staff would be prepared to deal with such a situation.
    _____

    IE just need to get the system sorted.


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    #291
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    Why do they give a refund if your seat wasn't available to you?

    They don't give a refund if you don't get your reserved seat. They give you a refund if they don't give you your reserved seat and you don't get a different seat as it is part of their Charter.


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    #292
    Jack Kanoff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,119 ✭✭✭Jack Kanoff


    GM228 wrote: »
    Legally it is not enough in relation to the scenario Jamie2k9 responded to.

    Think you've actually lost yourself at this point


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    #293
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    Jack Kanoff wrote: »
    Think you've actually lost yourself at this point

    What gives you that idea?

    The reality is your statement "failing to comply with instruction of an Irish rail official, private property and well within their right to eject uku or call the Gardai" is totally incorrect without qualification.


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    #294
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    GM228 wrote: »
    They don't give a refund if you don't get your reserved seat. They give you a refund if they don't give you your reserved seat and you don't get a different seat as it is part of their Charter.

    They do.


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    #295
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Because they would lose a lot of customers...



    Well its not and no, very few staff would be prepared to deal with such a situation.
    _____

    IE just need to get the system sorted.

    It's simple, I've moved a few people in the past. One person shows the correct seat and carriage number and the other person gets asked nicely to move. Simples.
    You are doing a lot of assumptions again.


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    #296
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    GM228 wrote: »
    Legally it is not enough in relation to the scenario Jamie2k9 responded to.

    It is. If the time, date, coach, and seat number matches what's on the ticket then bingo you have just found your seat and the smug person sitting in it who tries to smart about it will be moved. By the time you go down the legal route and get your solicitor and the guards to meet you to defend your squatters right, you will be standing on a platform waving goodbye to the train.


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    #297
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,682 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    It's simple, I've moved a few people in the past. One person shows the correct seat and carriage number and the other person gets asked nicely to move. Simples.
    You are doing a lot of assumptions again.

    I agree they have but a lot of are just than bothered. Try find a host on a Cork train when you need them and you would see what I mean.
    It is. If the time, date, coach, and seat number matches what's on the ticket then bingo you have just found your seat and the smug person sitting in it who tries to smart about it will be moved. By the time you go down the legal route and get your solicitor and the guards to meet you to defend your squatters right, you will be standing on a platform waving goodbye to the train.

    Nope, it's extreme but does not change the fact you cannot be forced form you seat. The guards would not move the passenger either.


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    #298
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,682 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Irish Rail's reservation system only guarantees passengers a ticket to travel and the customer making the reservation is made aware before making payment.

    The seat is an extra provided:
    *Reservation System is Operating
    "Fellow Customers Kindness

    I agree people should move if required but IE have a duty to sort the problem out and the issue for the most part wouldn't exist. If they don't the NTA must penalize them via fares or contracts.

    Case Closed.


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    #299
    Addle
    Registered Users Posts: 4,812 ✭✭✭Addle


    Irish rail are selling seats on carriages that don't exist! What recourse do I have over that? No alternative seat on the Westport to Dublin line last Saturday.


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    #300
    PeterParker957
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭PeterParker957


    Was anyone on the 7pm Heuston to Cork on Friday ? From about 6.40pm all seats had gone, regardless of who was in them.

    I was squashed against the very last luggage rack near the engine - if you had a seat reservation and got on a few mins before the off, there was no way you were sitting.


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    #301
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Addle wrote: »
    Irish rail are selling seats on carriages that don't exist! What recourse do I have over that? No alternative seat on the Westport to Dublin line last Saturday.

    You get your money back. That's due to a change of set at the last minute. Where a train is normally a 4 piece, it could be only 3 piece due to them needing the other bit somewhere else For whatever reason.


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