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Making Confirmation and regular attendance at Mass

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    #332
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    kylith wrote: »
    ....Again, I say it is telling that atheists know more about religion than believers and have more respect for the sanctity of sacraments than believers.

    So if we took someone off the street who had no contact with religion, and had no interest in it in anyway. Doesn't believe in god, an atheists Then a believer who was a theologian, studied for years. Perhaps a member of the clergy, or perhaps a college professor.

    Your sweeping generalization would be still be true then would it.


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    #333
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    beauf wrote: »
    So if we took someone off the street who had no contact with religion, and had no interest in it in anyway. Doesn't believe in god, an atheists Then a believer who was a theologian, studied for years. Perhaps a member of the clergy, or perhaps a college professor.

    Your sweeping generalization would be still be true then would it.

    Judging by most religious people, they’d know as much as.

    Care to comment on the hypocrisy of people rejecting all aspects of religion but still insisting that their kid makes the sacraments, but in school so they don’t actually have to do anything, and then plenty of them complaining about having to attend the church services for the very religion that they insist their child does in school?


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    #334
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Odhinn wrote: »
    So If I know that sunday is a day of obligation and that the purpose of sex should, bar very narrow circumstances, be reproduction, and a catholic doesn't, then its not really knowledge because weapons.

    Righty-ho.
    But you have acquired that knowledge (very common knowledge) with the express purpose of humiliating and embarrassing someone else, have you not?
    What difference does it make to you wether a person knows the basic tenets of their religion, apart from the obvious pleasure you get from tripping them up and watching them flounder? How many Catholics did you pontificate to about basic rules before you found a nice juicy stupid one?
    How carefully did you avoid haranguing anyone who could actually answer your questions.
    You actually sound like one of those wise guy YouTube right wingers down at the beach in Miami tricking stoned teenagers into making massive mistakes in their US history just so they can prove that all young people are “stooopid”.
    “ Great crack at parties” is the expression that leaps to mind, tbh.
    How do you get on with interrogating the ordinary Muslims that you meet when your out and about on Islam, by the way?
    Use your weapons carefully, you don’t really want them turned on you.


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    #335
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    kylith wrote: »
    Judging by most religious people, they’d know as much as.

    So that must mean its OK, to make sweeping generalizations and inaccurate statements that can't possible be true. Kind of makes a a mockery of any rational discussion but ok.
    kylith wrote: »
    Care to comment on the hypocrisy of people rejecting all aspects of religion but still insisting that their kid makes the sacraments, but in school so they don’t actually have to do anything, and then plenty of them complaining about having to attend the church services for the very religion that they insist their child does in school?

    They can't reject ALL aspects of religion if they are attending any of it. Even if that's just for sacraments. if you had said "most" instead of "all" that would have made some sense.

    Re: hypocrisy of people. I don't really care what they do, live and let live as long as I'm not adversely effected.

    This mindset of policing other peoples beliefs that are really none of our business reminds me of the thought police, or indeed religious enforcers as in some radicalized religions.

    That is a really disturbing mindset.


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    #336
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Rather than trying to enforce other people religion. Its would far healthier to take the approach of removing religious exclusions from state schools. Fairness and equality.


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    #337
    captbarnacles
    Registered Users Posts: 1,964 ✭✭✭captbarnacles


    IME athiests do know more about religion because they have questioned it and of course it falls apart under scrutiny. The religious people I know do not like engaging in any analysis of the Bible etc, they want to believe so they do, simply.


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    #338
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    True and fairness falls apart under scrutiny. Or a life of crime doesn't pay...

    I expect many people follow a religion for many reasons not just a belief in a god.

    Maybe we think people read St Patricks back story and go ....hang on a minute....

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Patrick#Legends


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    #339
    Nettle Soup
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭Nettle Soup


    captbarnacles wrote: »
    IME athiests do know more about religion because they have questioned it and of course it falls apart under scrutiny. The religious people I know do not like engaging in any analysis of the Bible etc, they want to believe so they do, simply.

    I would go as far as to say that atheists on average have a higher IQ or more questioning mind than religious people. They are certainly less gullible!


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    #340
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,999 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    beauf wrote: »
    Its not knowledge if its wrong.

    .

    Where am I wrong?


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    #341
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,999 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    splinter65 wrote: »
    But you have acquired that knowledge (very common knowledge) with the express purpose of humiliating and embarrassing someone else, have you not?


    No idea where you got those notions from.
    splinter65 wrote: »
    What difference does it make to you wether a person knows the basic tenets of their religion, apart from the obvious pleasure you get from tripping them up and watching them flounder? How many Catholics did you pontificate to about basic rules before you found a nice juicy stupid one?
    How carefully did you avoid haranguing anyone who could actually answer your questions.

    .....these would be the people who call themselves catholic but don't know much, if anything, about their religion, yet expect the state to facilitate their childrens education in same?
    splinter65 wrote: »
    You actually sound like one of those wise guy YouTube right wingers down at the beach in Miami tricking stoned teenagers into making massive mistakes in their US history just so they can prove that all young people are “stooopid”.
    “ Great crack at parties” is the expression that leaps to mind, tbh.
    How do you get on with interrogating the ordinary Muslims that you meet when your out and about on Islam, by the way?
    Use your weapons carefully, you don’t really want them turned on you.


    Knew the muslims would come into it sooner or later. Sneaky feckers.


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    #342
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    You don't need a degree in theology to know that religion is a load of ****. No sex before marriage, no contraception, homosexuality is unacceptable. . .and that's before you get to me giving up my Sunday lie in. I will pass thanks. What other people do is their business but if we could keep it private and out of public life that would be great.


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    #343
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    eviltwin wrote: »
    You don't need a degree in theology to know that religion is a load of ....

    Ah come on its pretty funny, that people think they need a high IQ to figure out the flaws in religion.


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    #344
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Odhinn wrote: »
    Where am I wrong?

    I didn't say you were wrong. I said the information was wrong.
    People can't have avoided all contact with religion at communion or confirmation stage as there are prior pre-requisites. It would very uncommon to have done all of those at school.
    This is basic logic, high IQ is not required. Its kinda ironic if people imply religious people will believe any old drivel while posting any old drivel to validate their concept of atheism.
    That not judgment on religion or atheism, just these threads.

    Whats weird about these threads, they bear no relation to a typical Irish experience. So sure not everyone will have the same experience.
    But these threads read more like someone from a very different experience, looking in rather than some one looking out.
    I wonder if the nuances of Father Ted, or Roddy Doyle are completely missed by many for this reason. They just see the slapstick.


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    #345
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,698 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    kbannon wrote: »
    Schools should be spending more time on PE and not communion, etc.
    Let the parents who are intrtested bring the kids to the church forn the sacrament prep!


    PE is not a subject. It's a chance for the kids to run off some steam for sure. But running up and down a field, chasing blob of plastic or leather or whatever and bating the crap out of the supposedly-opposite "team"? Nah .. if the parents want their kids to do that, they can take them to sports clubs at the weekend.


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    #346
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Nettle Soup wrote: »
    I would go as far as to say that atheists on average have a higher IQ or more questioning mind than religious people. They are certainly less gullible!

    You’re smarter then all these people, and these are just the scientists, never mind the doctors, or the academics...
    Sure you are!


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    #347
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,920 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Bob_Marley wrote: »
    kbannon wrote: »
    Because the indoctrination leading up to it is done principally during school time and therefore affects the education of all children within that school year, not just those whose parents want the kids to go through the experience. It's a waste of school time. Its a waste of tax payers money. It can affect the well being of children excluded from the event.
    That's why!
    they don't send you children to Catholic schools, and instead of sectarian whining on the internet, get off your arse and cater to the massive demand for non Catholic places in your area, and set one up with other parents, just like Catholics, ET other denominations / non denominational had to where they have schools.
    1. Not everyone has a choice of where to send their kids to school
    2. It is sectarian to seek fairness in childrens' education?
    3. Why should I set up a non catholic school when taxpayer money has been spent building and funding the local schools?

    Would those in favour of religious control be in happy to see 90% of schools controlled by the Muslims if and when they become the dominant religion?


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    #348
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,920 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    PE is not a subject. It's a chance for the kids to run off some steam for sure. But running up and down a field, chasing blob of plastic or leather or whatever and bating the crap out of the supposedly-opposite "team"? Nah .. if the parents want their kids to do that, they can take them to sports clubs at the weekend.
    You reckon wrong!
    https://www.education.ie/en/Schools-Colleges/Information/Curriculum-and-Syllabus/leaving-certificate-physical-education.html
    https://www.rte.ie/amp/926443/
    https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/296210/limerick-schools-among-first-to-offer-pe-as-exam-subject.html

    There's a known problen with kids being lazy and overweight. It is known that this will have massive cost and resource implications for the health service down the line. But no, you think learning how to be a catholic is more important :rolleyes:


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    #349
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    PE is not a subject. It's a chance for the kids to run off some steam for sure. But running up and down a field, chasing blob of plastic or leather or whatever and bating the crap out of the supposedly-opposite "team"? Nah .. if the parents want their kids to do that, they can take them to sports clubs at the weekend.
    Except that PE has definite beneficial effects for childrens' health and wellbeing.

    When religion ceases to be a school subject I think that it would be well replaced by classes on cooking and nutrition to help cope with the obesity issues in this country.


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    #350
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    kbannon wrote: »
    ...
    Would those in favour of religious control be in happy to see 90% of schools controlled by the Muslims if and when they become the dominant religion?

    Even if it's the Jedi religion that is 90%. no religion should be exclusive in state schools.

    Which why trying to redefine the census figures is a dumb idea.


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    #351
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    kbannon wrote: »
    Schools should be spending more time on PE and not communion, etc.
    Let the parents who are intrtested bring the kids to the church forn the sacrament prep!


    PE is not a subject. It's a chance for the kids to run off some steam for sure. But running up and down a field, chasing blob of plastic or leather or whatever and bating the crap out of the supposedly-opposite "team"? Nah .. if the parents want their kids to do that, they can take them to sports clubs at the weekend.

    You're confusing exercise with competitive sports. There are lots of social issues with competitive sports in schools especially where kids are excluded sometimes due to disability.

    But everyone needs to exercise it's good for mind and body.


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    #352
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I hate the multi quotes on mobile. Grrr.


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    #353
    nozzferrahhtoo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,338 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    beauf wrote: »
    So now you reckon most (as people in any religion) won't haven't even seen a bible.

    Do I? Or are you simply putting words in my mouth so you wont have to rebut what I actually said?

    If at any point you want to do that instead of simply making stuff up on my behalf, I am here for you.

    A clue though, nowhere did I say that MOST of them have not seen a bible. What I did say was that it strikes me as strange WHEN I meet someone who professes a certain religion who does not appear to have gone out of their way to even SEE a copy of the book that is at the core of their belief system.

    Which, I trust you will notice, is much different a comment than the one you just made up.


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    #354
    Bob_Marley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 626 ✭✭✭Bob_Marley


    kbannon wrote: »
    Not everyone has a choice of where to send their kids to school
    2. It is sectarian to seek fairness in childrens' education?

    No, but instead of that, you're whining about only Catholic's and Catholic schools, which is a dead giveaway of the actual agenda.
    kbannon wrote: »
    3. Why should I set up a non catholic school when taxpayer money has been spent building and funding the local schools?

    Because that's what everyone else had to do when their was no school in the area for them, from Catholics, to Protestants, to ET, to Gaelscoil, etc. You seem to think the solution is to confiscate and hijack Catholic schools, instead of getting off your arse and applying for funding, and putting in the graft like everyone else.

    There's nothing wrong with a lot of different types of schools in one area, diversity and choice is healthy - not some monolithic giant state run kiddy factory with thousands of faceless students in one building, that your policy will lead you to. More fool you to send your kids to a state run anything.
    kbannon wrote: »
    Would those in favour of religious control be in happy to see 90% of schools controlled by the Muslims if and when they become the dominant religion?

    I expect local schools to reflect the local population in fair proportion, so when 90% of the population are Muslim, I see no issue with this. (I can only imagine your whining then). European birth rates are falling, and corporations need average wages to fall as low as possible to drive profits higher, hence as many new people as possible need to be imported from third world countries - it's supply and demand baby.


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    #355
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,999 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Bob_Marley wrote: »
    No, but instead of that, you're whining about only Catholic's and Catholic schools, which is a dead giveaway of the actual agenda.

    .

    Our education system isn't dominated by Presbyterian schools....


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    #356
    Bob_Marley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 626 ✭✭✭Bob_Marley


    Odhinn wrote: »
    Our education system isn't dominated by Presbyterian schools....

    Why would they be, they are 0.5 % of the population.


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    #357
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,999 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Bob_Marley wrote: »
    That's because they are 0.5 % of the population.

    Yep. And we live in a Republic. That means it isn't mob rule.


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    #358
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »
    beauf wrote: »
    So now you reckon most (as people in any religion) won't haven't even seen a bible.

    Do I? Or are you simply putting words in my mouth so you wont have to rebut what I actually said?

    If at any point you want to do that instead of simply making stuff up on my behalf, I am here for you.

    A clue though, nowhere did I say that MOST of them have not seen a bible. What I did say was that it strikes me as strange WHEN I meet someone who professes a certain religion who does not appear to have gone out of their way to even SEE a copy of the book that is at the core of their belief system.

    Which, I trust you will notice, is much different a comment than the one you just made up.

    Actually your comment that I quoted...was quite sweeping in that it encompassed many religions that recognise the bible, not simply the RC.

    I just pointed out that such a broad vague generalisation couldn't possibly be true.


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    #359
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I love the believer tag. That's like half the planet.


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    #360
    Bob_Marley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 626 ✭✭✭Bob_Marley


    beauf wrote: »
    I love the believer tag. That's like half the planet.

    more like 84% and rising.


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    #361
    Bob_Marley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 626 ✭✭✭Bob_Marley


    Odhinn wrote: »
    Yep. And we live in a Republic. That means it isn't mob rule.

    hmm new term for democracy you don't like. lol


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