I want to live in America

Snickers Man

Snickers Man wrote: »

Americans are WAY too tolerant of Big Government. The things they let their government get away with would not be tolerated in Europe. Any more.

Are you sure about that? Ireland is pretty tolerant of the government putting the interests of the corporations and certain businesses/industries (like the banks) to the fore. Oh, sure, Ireland and European countries are generally very vocal about what their governments get up to, but there is very little actual change or accountability for political cock-ups.

Most conversations I have relating to politics with Irish people, tend to acknowledge the corruption, the political families, etc, and say it's getting better (kinda), but generally, it's dismissing it as something that doesn't change except on the surface. A good politician is one that's marginally better than the others... still believed to be dodgy though.

Sure, some posters on boards are very clued into changes in laws that the government(s) bring in, but most people I'd suggest only find out afterward when it comes to affecting them directly, and few think there's much chance to change it.

So, no, I wouldn't think that Ireland and many other European countries are much better. It's all smoke and mirrors regardless of where you are.

Snickers Man

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you sure about that? Ireland is pretty tolerant of the government putting the interests of the corporations and certain businesses/industries (like the banks) to the fore.

Most conversations I have relating to politics with Irish people, tend to acknowledge the corruption, the political families, etc,

So, no, I wouldn't think that Ireland and many other European countries are much better. It's all smoke and mirrors regardless of where you are.

Well you're not wrong in anything you say. But at a very fundamental level: we don't allow our government to kill us. Or at least we make it pretty damn difficult for them to do so.
The death penalty is now outlawed throughout the EU, and in most non-EU European countries too. In Ireland, it is now even unconstitutional. ie, the Government couldn't restore it even if it wanted to.

Our police force is largely unarmed, special units excepted. When was the last time a black person was shot dead by Irish police? Come to think of it, when was the last time a white person was shot dead by Irish police?
By contrast, American police shoot dead on average between 950 and 1000 people, most of them their own citizens, ever year according to the Washington PostThey've killed 123 people already in 2018 and we're only half way through February at the time of writing!!! :eek:

But let's face it: if the Second Amendment allows any Tom Dick or Harry to walk around toting an AK47 then Godammit, the cops gotta have tanks!!

Now I know, America has a much larger population than ours, about 300million people. So divide those figures by 60 to get a comparison with our own. If we had similar attitudes to America, our police would have already shot dead two people this year. They haven't. And they would have shot dead 16-17 people every year for the past five years.

What's the real figure?

That's one difference between European and American "Big" Governments. Another is that we tax fossil fuels heavily to subsidise our health care systems, whereas America does almost exactly the opposite.

Pfft. Euroweenies!!

Permabear

Permabear wrote: »

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As much as I wonder about Ireland's "great" education system I just don't know about that. I know people in a few sectors who got excellent jobs in Ireland and abroad with just a Level 7 from an IT. Would it be common for someone in the US to walk into a €40k+ job aged 20 after 3 years in a community college with no experience?
(Not IT btw, so it wasn't like they'd shown amazing initiative or come up with a game-changing app or whatever.)

Ush1

Deleted User wrote: »

As much as I wonder about Ireland's "great" education system I just don't know about that. I know people in a few sectors who got excellent jobs in Ireland and abroad with just a Level 7 from an IT. Would it be common for someone in the US to walk into a €40k+ job aged 20 after 3 years in a community college with no experience?
(Not IT btw, so it wasn't like they'd shown amazing initiative or come up with a game-changing app or whatever.)

That's unusual in Ireland, certainly in the IT sector anyway.

Permabear

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Doylers

Permabear wrote: »

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How many Irish 20-year-olds with level 7 degrees from ITs are walking into €40k+ jobs?[/quote]
I sure as **** didn't! That was with a level 8

Ush1

Ush1 wrote: »

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Yeah, like I said, it wasn't in IT.

Permabear wrote: »

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I knew of 8 who did it in their early 20s. Some moved elsewhere in Europe, some were here. All they needed was the Level 7 (though a few had bothered with the 1 year add-on).
I think your attempt to make and equivalence between a US community college and Irish ITs a bit reaching tbh. Are there many Asian families sending their kids to the US and paying $50k in fees alone for Community College? Or the $4k as it is?

Doylers wrote: »

I sure as **** didn't! That was with a level 8

Yeah I chose the wrong path too.

Ush1

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah, like I said, it wasn't in IT.

What sector was it, what course did they do and what was the job?

I think Aldi managers get something like 60k starting that but it's apparently a horrible job.

Ush1

Ush1 wrote: »

What sector was it, what course did they do and what was the job?

I think Aldi managers get something like 60k starting that but it's apparently a horrible job.

Electronic engineering. I can't deny being somewhat sickened by their luck. :P Some took a while to get anything (graduating from 09+) but when they did they started on more than I'll be on for a while yet.

Dunno about that figure from Aldi now.

Snickers Man

Snickers Man wrote: »

That's one difference between European and American "Big" Governments. Another is that we tax fossil fuels heavily to subsidise our health care systems, whereas America does almost exactly the opposite.

Pfft. Euroweenies!!

Well, let me put it this way. When I left Ireland originally about 15 years ago, gun crime was extremely rare. I've been home about 7 months and there have been quite a few gun related crimes in that time. And that's without common ownership of guns. Ireland is changing, along with the rest of Europe.

And as for the death penalty, we have a revolving door system of prison time, with inadequate sentencing and very ineffective rehabilitation. I've yet to see/hear of an effective answer to crime, especially as it increases and grows more violent.

Billy86

Aldi figure is accurate I think an old friend of a friend from school got that role a few years back and I remember hearing around 60k. Was in the height of the recession so it was somewhat big news among those who knew him, since many others were scraping to even get a job stacking the shelves. Especially since he was a complete messer in school, though I can see how he'd be good at that role.

Snickers Man

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, let me put it this way. When I left Ireland originally about 15 years ago, gun crime was extremely rare. I've been home about 7 months and there have been quite a few gun related crimes in that time. And that's without common ownership of guns. Ireland is changing, along with the rest of Europe.

I agree that it's got a bit hairy lately but many of those gun crimes are the result of a vicious feud between two criminal gangs. Not trying to belittle the fatalities, and two of them appear to have been cases of mistaken identity with the victims having nothing to do with either gang, but the hope is that it is a temporary and anomalous phenomenon.

Even so, we have a long way to go before Ireland, or anywhere in Europe for that matter, gets to anything like America's figures for gun homicide.

Snickers Man

Snickers Man wrote: »

I agree that it's got a bit hairy lately but many of those gun crimes are the result of a vicious feud between two criminal gangs. Not trying to belittle the fatalities, and two of them appear to have been cases of mistaken identity with the victims having nothing to do with either gang, but the hope is that it is a temporary and anomalous phenomenon.

Just a hope though. Even without a direct connection with that famous feud, gun related crime has definitely increased in Ireland over the last two decades. Not even close to America, but Irelands crime culture is changing. Who can say what will be common in five or ten years time?

Even so, we have a long way to go before Ireland, or anywhere in Europe for that matter, gets to anything like America's figures for gun homicide.

True, but then the US has had weapons available to the population for all of its existence. It's entwined with their culture.

Permabear

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Peregrinus

Permabear wrote: »

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Are you doing something very non-standard? Because, you know, there's quite a big fund management/financial services sector in Ireland, mostly consisting of foreign enterprises who have set up here precisely because they find the tax and regulatory environment congenial.

dreamers75

Lived there before.

Note:

Price of Gas and the Weather is literally all they give a **** about.

It was a great place to live and it would be again if it wasn't for all the american s living there.

Billy86

dreamers75 wrote: »

Price of Gas and the Weather is literally all they give a **** about.

I'm not a big fan of the sheer level of apathy to just about everything that doesn't directly impact them as a person over there, but in Ireland I reckon we're far more obsessed with the weather (barring when severe weather is due over there - but you'd want to be prepared for blizzards, tornados, etc). I've not actually lived anywhere before that had the weather as a bigger, more regular talking point than Ireland which is a bit mad given we've not really got any extremes on that front (one inch of snow sticking, or a decent blast of humidity like early last summer typically being on the more extreme ends of what we get).

Ush1

Peregrinus wrote: »

Are you doing something very non-standard? Because, you know, there's quite a big fund management/financial services sector in Ireland, mostly consisting of foreign enterprises who have set up here precisely because they find the tax and regulatory environment congenial.

I think he's making up his whole persona to be honest.:)

steddyeddy

I'm currently working on Colorado and I have a few views on this. I think the best possible way to live in America is to get an education (degree or PhD) in a decent area and then move out there. It's a completely different situation living there to being born there. I.E you'll rack up student dept in the states and the chances of getting an education out there aren't as high as here or in the UK. Other than that Americans are generally very friendly people.

steddyeddy

Oh and without a shadow of a doubt the education system in Ireland is better. The research at third level America is better for the most part, but the high school education is seriously lacking.

M.T. Cranium

"I want to live in America ..."

Fair enough, but pack real beer.

steddyeddy

M.T. Cranium wrote: »

"I want to live in America ..."

Fair enough, but pack real beer.

Colorado has some decent breweries (not Coors obviously).

Billy86

There's a bang of hipster off a lot of them, but yeah the US is packed with microbreweries in recent times and make some great ones. That said there are so many of them it's more suited to people who might like to try a few different types at a time than having their reliable ones readily available throughout because obviously the 'big name' brands over there are mostly pretty terrible.