I want to live in America

Permabear

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IvyTheTerrible

Permabear wrote: »

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With all due respect PB, you earn much more than the average person.
Degrees from Ivy Leagues are not cheap and there is only so much financial aid to go around. Your experience is not typical.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Permabear wrote: »

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And yet I bet there are Irish students working for large American corporations, some at a high managent layer. The idea that American being average at pisa and other tests suddenly produces the best undergraduates is clearly nonsense. These are just popularity tests. Famous schools are ranked as famous schools by professors who have heard of famous schools.

Ireland has a double taxation agreement with the US, which would negate any liability to the IRS for most US citizens living and working in Ireland. And if you move back to Ireland and really don't want to be a US citizen anymore, you can always renounce your US citizenship.

Except you have to make yearly returns all your life.

ancapailldorcha

I think a person earning much more than the average who can provide great opportunities for their children like Permabear may find themselves better off in the US.

However, for someone on an average salary I'd say Ireland, the UK or somewhere else in Europe would be a much better option due to cheaper healthcare, better work-life balance and the like. If the US was working so well for ordinary Americans, I don't think the upset of 2016 would have happened.

On the whole tax return for expats thing, I knew an American in Brighton who told me that most people don't even bother. It's only if you're very wealthy that the US authorities get bothered enough to enforce a 0.5% tax on your earnings. They're not going to expatriate someone earning a €24,000 salary owing €120.

Permabear

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salonfire

Permabear wrote: »

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Aren't you lucky then that you, or any of your family, were not born with any serious health conditions. How likely then would you have been able to work or obtain health insurance?

You display the typical 'I'm alright Jack so screw everyone else' mentality that has left the US broken and fractured.

As for the idea that your taxes are lower, thus sparing you the cost of someone else's health coverage, are taxes really that much lower?

You have Federal, State, Social Security, Medicare payroll taxes - maybe 21% effective tax rate.

Then high property tax; perhaps 5% of your gross

Then you may have to pay insurance premiums; say 10% of your gross. Then you might have to pay all, deductibles, out of pocket expenses, medication, etc. Say other 5% of gross.

Let's say you are repaying college loans, another 5% of your gross.

Now we are up to 46% of your gross in the US vs maybe 51% in Ireland or other European countries.

Is the 5% saving really worth it just to say screw other peoples' health and education, I made my own in life ?

Fr Tod Umptious

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I think a person earning much more than the average who can provide great opportunities for their children like Permabear may find themselves better off in the US.

However, for someone on an average salary I'd say Ireland, the UK or somewhere else in Europe would be a much better option due to cheaper healthcare, better work-life balance and the like. If the US was working so well for ordinary Americans, I don't think the upset of 2016 would have happened.

On the whole tax return for expats thing, I knew an American in Brighton who told me that most people don't even bother. It's only if you're very wealthy that the US authorities get bothered enough to enforce a 0.5% tax on your earnings. They're not going to expatriate someone earning a €24,000 salary owing €120.

But do people go to the US from Ireland for the average salary ?

I don't think so.

I'd imagine there are three major categories or Irish immigrant to the US and all are monetarily successful.

1. The modern professional (IT, engineering, medical etc) who are well educated, well skilled and as a result well paid. These people all have visas.

2. Trades people (carpenters etc), very skilled and very well paid as a result. Usually self employed. Some of these may or may not have visas.

3. Undocumented short term stayers. They work hard and long hours (males in construction, females in domestic childcare or catering) but get paid much better than they would at home and have a lot more disposable income, also they don't pay tax. They tend to be young and mobile and thus return home after saving a lot of money.

IvyTheTerrible

Permabear wrote: »

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And what percentage of students attending Harvard came from households earning less than $65000?

ancapailldorcha

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But do people go to the US from Ireland for the average salary ?

I don't think so.

I'd imagine there are three major categories or Irish immigrant to the US and all are monetarily successful.

1. The modern professional (IT, engineering, medical etc) who are well educated, well skilled and as a result well paid. These people all have visas.

2. Trades people (carpenters etc), very skilled and very well paid as a result. Usually self employed. Some of these may or may not have visas.

3. Undocumented short term stayers. They work hard and long hours (males in construction, females in domestic childcare or catering) but get paid much better than they would at home and have a lot more disposable income, also they don't pay tax. They tend to be young and mobile and thus return home after saving a lot of money.

Depends. Students with a part time job will earn a wage. The woman I spoke to had married a local and worked in a furniture shop.

Even if they get a €50,000 job, that's only €250 in tax. Hardly breaking the bank and that's if the federal government cares enough to collect.

Permabear

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Permabear

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Permabear

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dd972

Check Canada out first OP, it may be 'boring' but quite often that's a good thing a la Switzerland.

Fr Tod Umptious

Permabear wrote: »

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And those that are unfortunate to fall on hard times in the US or for whatever reason it does not work out for them always have the safety net of coming back to Ireland

Permabear

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Franz Von Peppercorn

Permabear wrote: »

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I’m pretty sure that wages are largely equivalent. Of course in your industry it isn’t but your industry periodically gets handouts and is a net loss to society.

And average income workers in Ireland are taxpayers. They are paying in.

If the op thinks he can get to permabears level - which probably involves selling your soul - then America is worth it. Alternatively a good job in some small mid western states but that’s probably difficult.

ancapailldorcha

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I’m pretty sure that wages are largely equivalent. Of course in your industry it isn’t but your industry periodically gets handouts and is a net loss to society.

And average income workers in Ireland are taxpayers. They are paying in.

If the op thinks he can get to permabears level - which probably involves selling your soul - then America is worth it. Alternatively a good job in some small mid western states but that’s probably difficult.

Depends. I know one fella who worked at an Ivy League University who would agree. I know another chap who bought a 3-bedroom house on the West Coast for $140,000 which is almost nothing in Dublin/London terms.

The work-life balance horror stories I've heard put me off the US to be honest when I was wanting quite badly to live there but fair play to anyone who's live the dream as it were. It isn't for everyone.

handlemaster

Holidays are rubbish 10 days a year.

Franz Von Peppercorn

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Depends. I know one fella who worked at an Ivy League University who would agree. I know another chap who bought a 3-bedroom house on the West Coast for $140,000 which is almost nothing in Dublin/London terms.

The work-life balance horror stories I've heard put me off the US to be honest when I was wanting quite badly to live there but fair play to anyone who's live the dream as it were. It isn't for everyone.

Sure - a good job in an area with low house prices is the dream. However I used to work in Silicon Valley and would never go back. Can’t afford to unless I get too 1% dollar.

con___manx1

I dislike america at the moment so much. They are celeb obsessed brain dead bastards. There talking of voting for opera for the next president after that muppet trump. There gun laws are ridicolous.there the fattest country in the world. I hate american english words like awsome dude when they are spoken by irish people. The war in iraq was all about oil the nukes were just an excuse. They ditched the paris aggrement so they dont give a **** about the enviroment. They are a selfish country that think they are the greatest when really they are 90% idiots. I have been to 3 differnt cities in the us. Calafornia is like a different country. People over there have more sense at least.

Donald Trump

Fake News wrote: »

Yester wrote: »

Riskymove wrote: »

https://www.usa.gov/become-us-citizen

That's way too much work. Could I not just marry an American girl/guy?

It has to be Bona Fide

Hehe

Boner Fido more like

Find yourself some desperate mutt and give her lad for 5 years till the papers come through

snotboogie

Permabear wrote: »

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Harvard is absolutely atypical in what it offers, it has the largest endowment of any university on earth and can afford these schemes. Why don't you give the costs of more typical Universities in the Boston area like BU or BC?

Permabear

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BattleCorp

I worked in America a good few years ago. It was an eye opener.

I was earning ok money but the cost of living swallowed it up. I had to work 6 days per week to make ends meet. I worked much harder over there than here, much longer hours too.

When there was a holiday such as 4th July or Thanksgiving, I got a day off but didn't get paid for those days.

You could be let go from work at any time with no redundancy. Workers rights were close to zero.

The people aren't the least bit friendly or helpful. If you don't have loads of money, you are dirt.

Some lads I know were robbed at gunpoint by a 13 year old junkie while working on a building site. 2 of them thought they were going to die. Both of them left America within a month of that incident.

There were homeless everywhere. Plenty of bags of clothes under trees in Golden Gate Park where some of the homeless were living. I saw plenty of people eating out of rubbish bins. Much worse than here.

I was talking to one truck driver who was 81. I asked him why he was still working at his age. He told me that he has to keep working to pay his rent.

That said, if you have money, then it's a great place. Loads to see and do. I did get to have lots of good experiences and I don't regret going.

If anybody is thinking of going, do your research because it isn't a bit like home.

salonfire

Permabear wrote: »

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That's a nonsense opinion. There is plenty of money to make in Ireland and wealthy people here have a good lifestyle in a stable and safe country.

A country where you are a lot less likely to be gunned down by cops or simply attending a music concert.

Donald Trump

Permabear wrote: »

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The points about scholarship availability are well founded and true.

However it neglects the financially poor student who, while perhaps above average academic ability, does not have a family history of third level education and also is not going to have direct access to Harvard etc.

Focusing on the likes of Harvard is really out in the tail of the distribution and is not representative.

Will the American equivalent of the "working-class" Irish kid with 450 points in their leaving and no family history of university get into Harvard? Probably not. Will they get into the next tier or education institution (for want of a better word)? Has their family organized and coordinated a few years of extra curricular activities in order to fill out their CV to try to get them in the door? They probably don't know how to play the game. Is that kid going to have the same access to education as they would in Ireland - probably not. Will they feel comfortable taking on massive amounts of debts which seem so large in comparison to their current family income?

The difficulty is that people who have gone through the system take it for granted that it is the default thing to do. Yes, technically all hurdles can be overcome. But those hurdles often seem insurmountable for people who have never navigated the system.

I've been through the third level system. I know it is navigable. If I have kids, I assume they'll go too (unless they seriously do not want to). But when I was 17 I didn't know that I would go. Even with the free fees the opportunity cost vs a low paid manual job seemed large then. If you had put tens of thousands of pounds in fees on top of that.....I think I'd have taken a completely different path

Kivaro

handlemaster wrote: »

Holidays are rubbish 10 days a year.

That comment is rubbish. It ain't true.

Some of the other generalizations on here are bewildering in their inaccuracies.

Permabear

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Franz Von Peppercorn

Kivaro wrote: »

That comment is rubbish. It ain't true.

Some of the other generalizations on here are bewildering in their inaccuracies.

10 days is in fact true.

https://gusto.com/framework/health-benefits/paid-vacation-time-how-do-you-stack-up/

23% of Americans get 0 paid holidays a year.

Manic Moran

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

10 days is in fact true.

https://gusto.com/framework/health-benefits/paid-vacation-time-how-do-you-stack-up/

23% of Americans get 0 paid holidays a year.

And others get more. I got 39 paid days off last year, only 9 of which were federal bank holidays. I'm trying to remember how many I got when I worked in Ireland, but I don't think it was that much. (I didn't use them all, but I earned them. The rest are sitting in my PTO balance)

Permabear is quite right. You don't come to America because you're looking to be in the bottom 23%. You come to the US because you believe you can better your situation. If you're only worried about how bad it can be, you'll never take any risk at all. Spend all your time looking down, how will you ever get up?