Men's rights on Abortion?

MayoSalmon

GT_TDI_150 wrote: »

A man cant 'force' a woman to have her stomach stappled or to have a boob job or to have a cancer op...


Why would this be different?

Why is a boob job different from wanting to have his own child...I guess you got me

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RocketRaccoon

I would love to know how many women here and in Ireland in general have ever been to one of these clinics in England, I would be confident that nobody from this thread has been in one.

You haven't seen how much of a joke is made of an abortion over there or how a group of girls can go together, have a laugh and a joke beforehand before going through with the procedure.

A bit of perspective is needed here.

eviltwin

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

I would love to know how many women here and in Ireland in general have ever been to one of these clinics in England, I would be confident that nobody from this thread has been in one.

You haven't seen how much of a joke is made of an abortion over there or how a group of girls can go together, have a laugh and a joke beforehand before going through with the procedure.

A bit of perspective is needed here.

I've had an abortion in the UK. I didn't see anything like you describe. What I saw were single girls and couples crying, holding each other, turned in towards walls to get some privacy. I saw women bent double pale as ghosts leaving holding onto the staff for support. I certainly didn't hear any laughing or joking and I doubt you did either because this is just usual anti choice rubbish.

RocketRaccoon

eviltwin wrote: »

I've had an abortion in the UK. I didn't see anything like you describe. What I saw were single girls and couples crying, holding each other, turned in towards walls to get some privacy. I saw women bent double pale as ghosts leaving holding onto the staff for support. I certainly didn't hear any laughing or joking and I doubt you did either because this is just usual anti choice rubbish.

I have no interest either side of this debate but I can tell you that is 100% what I saw. Of course I also saw people crying while others kept to themselves but there was a group of 3 girls(early 20s) sitting down beside us laughing and joking, it was the girls 3rd abortion which she seemed somewhat proud of.

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wexie

Adamocovic wrote: »

Also I believe that the mother should notify the father of her decision to have an abortion. In the US the woman isn't required to inform the father of the child that she is intending to have an abortion.

This happened to a friend of mine in Canada, found out his girlfriend was pregnant, they said down together and spoke about things. Mulled it over for a few weeks and my friend came to terms with being a father (which he had always wanted, just not yet).

Then a few days later got a phonecall from his soon to be ex that she had gone ahead and had an abortion.

It's a tricky situation and I don't think any form of legislation is going to make it any less stressful or upsetting for any of the parties involved.

seamus

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

I have no interest either side of this debate but I can tell you that is 100% what I saw. Of course I also saw people crying while others kept to themselves but there was a group of 3 girls(early 20s) sitting down beside us laughing and joking, it was the girls 3rd abortion which she seemed somewhat proud of.

So you once saw 3 girls at an abortion clinic not taking it quite as seriously as you think they should have, and you extrapolated that to declare that abortion is treated as a joke by everyone in England.

OK.

Sleepy

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Why is a boob job different from wanting to have his own child...I guess you got me

Well,by the logic you're espousing if he'd paid for half the breast augmentation operation, he'd have a legal right to prevent her getting a reduction at a later date since the implants were 50% his...

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SusieBlue

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

I would love to know how many women here and in Ireland in general have ever been to one of these clinics in England, I would be confident that nobody from this thread has been in one.

You haven't seen how much of a joke is made of an abortion over there or how a group of girls can go together, have a laugh and a joke beforehand before going through with the procedure.

A bit of perspective is needed here.

"What should we do this week girls? Get our nails done? Maybe go for brunch??"
"I have an idea, why don't we all go and get abortions!"

You're making it out to be some sort of spa retreat. Spare me.

eviltwin

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

I have no interest either side of this debate but I can tell you that is 100% what I saw. Of course I also saw people crying while others kept to themselves but there was a group of 3 girls(early 20s) sitting down beside us laughing and joking, it was the girls 3rd abortion which she seemed somewhat proud of.

I'm not sure what the point is.

You want to deny people the choice you made yourself because three women were laughing?

MayoSalmon

Sleepy wrote: »

Well,by the logic you're espousing if he'd paid for half the breast augmentation operation, he'd have a legal right to prevent her getting a reduction at a later date since the implants were 50% his...

I think your confusing me for another poster

RocketRaccoon

WhiteRoses wrote: »

"What should we do this week girls? Get our nails done? Maybe go for brunch??"
"I have an idea, why don't we all go and get abortions!"

You're making it out to be some sort of spa retreat. Spare me.

I didn't make it out to be anything. I stated the facts of what I saw when I was there. A girl in her early 20s declaring, somewhat proudly, that it was her 3rd time at this clinic while laughing with her friends. This wasn't nervous laughter or anything along those lines, this was a woman taking the easy way out because she had gotten pregnant.

RocketRaccoon

eviltwin wrote: »

I'm not sure what the point is.

You want to deny people the choice you made yourself because three women were laughing?

It wasn't a choice I made, it was a choice made for me which is the point of this thread.

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wexie

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

I have no interest either side of this debate but I can tell you that is 100% what I saw. Of course I also saw people crying while others kept to themselves but there was a group of 3 girls(early 20s) sitting down beside us laughing and joking, it was the girls 3rd abortion which she seemed somewhat proud of.

I wouldn't dismiss the possibility of this happening, there are some very odd people out there. But I'd say the far far majority of people find it to be a pretty traumatic experience.

Remember watching a documentary on abortion in the Netherlands and one woman was having an abortion because the pregnancy was likely to upset her holiday plans.

I'm very firmly pro choice....but when I see things like that sometimes I wonder if there isn't a better way. But then I try to think of what kind of parents people like that would likely end up being and I feel a bit better

SusieBlue

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

I didn't make it out to be anything. I stated the facts of what I saw when I was there. A girl in her early 20s declaring, somewhat proudly, that it was her 3rd time at this clinic while laughing with her friends. This wasn't nervous laughter or anything along those lines, this was a woman taking the easy way out because she had gotten pregnant.

So because 1 person is potentially abusing the system, no one should be allowed access to safe abortions?

This country has a small percentage of career dole claimers who have no intention of ever working.
Do we abolish our social welfare system because of this minute percentage who abuse it, at the expense of those who are genuinely in dire need?

RocketRaccoon

....... wrote: »

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I didn't say she had gotten herself pregnant.

If this does pass in Ireland (again, I don't care either way) then expect a lot of those people who shouldn't be parents abusing the system.

And if I was able to get myself pregnant I'd be a medical miracle.

BrokenArrows

I think if two people are in a consensual sexual relationship they both accept the risk of pregnancy.

However if abortion is legal and the man doesn't want a child he should have the right to request an abortion.

If the woman disagrees and the father doesn't want anything more to do with the wife and child there should be some way for them to part ways without 18 years of child support payments.

I dont agree that the guy should be able to walk away scot free but if the woman decides to go ahead with an unwanted pregnancy that she cant afford then the man should at least get some sort of discount on the maintenance, a once off payment.

Deciding to have a child is a very financial decision and basically forcing it upon someone is not great.

I dont think there is any scenario for both parties to walk away happy.

SusieBlue

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

I didn't say she had gotten herself pregnant.

If this does pass in Ireland (again, I don't care either way) then expect a lot of those people who shouldn't be parents abusing the system.

But what's the alternative? Forcing these people who shouldn't be parents, to be parents? How is that fair on the child? It just punishes the woman because it isn't what she wants, and the only person that suffers is the child!

minikin

"safe abortions"

Delirium

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

I didn't say she had gotten herself pregnant.

If this does pass in Ireland (again, I don't care either way) then expect a lot of those people who shouldn't be parents abusing the system.

And if I was able to get myself pregnant I'd be a medical miracle.

But the result would be people who (by your own words) shouldn't be parents, don't become parents.

What exactly is the problem with that?

Triceratops Ballet

minikin wrote: »

"safe abortions"

As opposed to dodgy backstreet job or taking pills off the internet and being afraid to present at a hospital if there are complications

wexie

WhiteRoses wrote: »

[/B] Forcing these people who shouldn't be parents, to be parents?

Forcing people that don't want to be parents (sometimes because they realize that aren't fit to be parents) to be parents, then when it turns out they are indeed not fit parents and badly raise children give out to them for not raising the kids they didn't want in the first place.

Is that not how we've always done it?

Hoboo

BrokenArrows wrote: »

I think if two people are in a consensual sexual relationship they both accept the risk of pregnancy.

However if abortion is legal and the man doesn't want a child he should have the right to request an abortion.

If the woman disagrees and the father doesn't want anything more to do with the wife and child there should be some way for them to part ways without 18 years of child support payments.

I dont agree that the guy should be able to walk away scot free but if the woman decides to go ahead with an unwanted pregnancy that she cant afford then the man should at least get some sort of discount on the maintenance.

Deciding to have a child is a very financial decision and basically forcing it upon someone is not great.

I dont think there is any scenario for both parties to walk away happy.

Oh yes, pass the popcorn.....

RocketRaccoon

Delirium wrote: »

But the result would be people who (by your own words) shouldn't be parents, don't become parents.

What exactly is the problem with that?

What about the men in this situation who would be good parents who have this decision taken out of their hands?

Triceratops Ballet

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

What about the men in this situation who would be good parents who have this decision taken out of their hands?

So what do you want to happen? them to get an injunction prohibiting the woman from getting an abortion? how to you envisage that being enforced?

wexie

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

What about the men in this situation who would be good parents who have this decision taken out of their hands?

And what would you do instead of this then? Incarcerate the women who have to carry these babies for the next 9 months?

You're very right in that it's not fair and far from an ideal situation (although I suspect this doesn't happen to often).

But we're really kind of limited in what we can do by the fact it's women and women only that can carry babies and give birth to them.

EDIT : nobody is saying a man couldn't try to convince a woman to have his child. there may well be legal mechanisms for the man to become the sole guardian (are there?)

RocketRaccoon

wexie wrote: »

And what would you do instead of this then? Incarcerate the women who have to carry these babies for the next 9 months?

You're very right in that it's not fair and far from an ideal situation (although I suspect this doesn't happen to often).

But we're really kind of limited in what we can do by the fact it's women and women only that can carry babies and give birth to them.

The only reason I posted in here was for the people berating men to open their eyes and realise that it's not just the women involved in this decision that suffer. Simple as that really.