Men's rights on Abortion?

rn

I believe, in the normal consenting adults cases, the man should have some say in right to an abortion. I also believe that abortion should be a medical matter only. So saving life of mother or treating FFA, doctors should not be restricted in their choices of treatments available. I believe it should be a panel of doctors, because we are talking about potential human person.

I do not agree with current proposed legislation, the 12 week unrestricted part. I usually vote FG and if it's passed, I will not vote FG in next election, as I no longer believe the party reflects my own values.

I think it'll be close, as in around 52-48, which in a one question vote is very tight.

If it's a win for the yes side, I think the no side will not fall away. I think it will switch to lobbying tds on any proposed legislation.

If no side win I think yes side will be bitterly disappointed and will lobby for a re run. There will be no reruns in life of this government or the next one if FF are party in power. So it will be several years before we see anything on this again.

Outlaw Pete

_Dara_ wrote: »

I asked for concrete examples.

Well, for me the worst thing that the Prochoice side have done is lie.

We had Boylan say that it was "virtually impossible" for a woman to get NIPT screening results back within the 12 weeks when he knew well that was baloney. Yes, some women go to get the amniocentesis for certainty, given the NIPT is only 99% accurate, but many act on the screening results alone and Boylan is well aware of this.

The following eye specialist from the Eye & Ear isn't at all happy with what he had to say on TLLS either, with regards to possible eye sight loss for certain diabetics that continue with a pregnancy:


https://twitter.com/DJKilmartin/status/997146471383396352


Then there's this these from Amnesty:

https://twitter.com/MickeyVaugn/status/998524284204142592



Call me cynical but I also find some of the sudden switches from the likes of Leo and Harris to be not all that genuine given views they aired not so long ago:

https://twitter.com/MejTom/status/990556448269664256




Anyway, I'm out until after the Polls...... Savethe8th!!

Macha

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Again with this zygote business



Fetuses at 10-12 weeks gestation are not potential human beings...... they are human beings. No?





At least try and explain to me just why what we see in the above 12-week scan is just, in your eyes, potential human life, rather than an actual human life? I mean, I get that fetuses at this stage of development are not as developed as say a 24 week fetus, but then a newborn isn't as developed as a one year old, so why see this stage of development as not yet being significant enough to warrant being referred to as anything more than a mere zygote or a clump of cells?

What I really don't understand is that if you really believe life starts at conception, why aren't you against the morning after pill? One of the ways it acts is to stop a fertilised egg (ie full human being) from attaching to the wall of the uterus. So taking the morning after pill, by this logic, is the same as me going up to someone in the street and killing them.

I had a miscarriage last year at 12 weeks. My mother died the same year. Not only do I grieve far more deeply for my mother than my miscarriage, no one else treated it the same either. I didn't get any cards, no offer of a sacrament by the church to mark the event, no collective, public mourning. So the oni conclusion I can come to is most people don't actually consider a 12 week foetus and as a full human being.

I do think under almost all circumstances, the man should have a say. My partner has said many times he'd love to be pregnant for me. We have one child and are trying for another child and I hated being pregnant, the sense of being solely responsibility for this other person was overwhelming.

But it's nature and that burden is on my shoulders. When I had the missed miscarriage, I was the one who saw the bleeding, I was the one who said we had to go to hospital, I was the one who first realised the tiny flicker of life inside me wasn't there anymore. I was the one who went into labour 2 minutes after taking the medication as it was a missed miscarriage, I was the one writhing around on the floor in pain, who bled all over our bathroom and was still there crying when my partner came home with a packet of what are almost adult nappies that I had to wear for a week, who had to take a week off work, who had to keep rushing to the toilet as I'd feel another part come gushing out, whose hormones were up and down, who had to go to my gynaecologist a week later only to find it hadn't worked. I was the one who had to go under general anaesthetic a week later for them to do a D&c, who had to take special medicine to help the lining of my uterus grow back. I was the one who had put on weight and then had to struggle to lose it, who had to tell my gym instructors that I wasn't pregnant anymore, who ran over and over in my mind for weeks what I might have done to have caused the miscarriage, who felt like I now had another reason to dislike my body for not doing its job properly. And I will say nothing of the difficulties of pregnancy and birth..My partner was deeply affected but he his experience was completely different.

With this responsibility comes rights and women should have the right to choose what happens to their bodies.

RocketRaccoon

What does ^^^^^^ that post (I won't quote) have to do with the discussion? Obviously you have my sympathies for both your losses last year but how would anything have been different if the 8th amendment wasn't a thing here?

gctest50

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Well, for me the worst thing that the Prochoice side have done is lie.

https://www.twitter.com/newsworthy_ie





A Pattern of lies :








http://www.broadsheet.ie/2018/03/08/a-pro-life-pattern/



Nurse Noel and much much more - doesn't make it look better for mens rights

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

We had Boylan say that it was "virtually impossible" for a woman to get NIPT screening results back within the 12 weeks when he knew well that was baloney. Yes, some women go to get the amniocentesis for certainty, given the NIPT is only 99% accurate, but many act on the screening results alone and Boylan is well aware of this.

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

but many act on the screening results alone

Not making it look good if you've no facts n figures

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

The following eye specialist from the Eye & Ear isn't at all happy with what he had to say on TLLS either, with regards to possible eye sight loss for certain diabetics that continue with a pregnancy:

https://twitter.com/DJKilmartin/status/997146471383396352

Since it seems to be Anecdote Tiem :

I was talking to a woman at the clinic - she developed epilepsy after the first child and Type 1 diabetes after the second one.

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Then there's this these from Amnesty:

https://twitter.com/MickeyVaugn/status/998524284204142592

Voiceovers ?

or maybe they are just mistaken - nothing wrong with being wrong

long way away from say a Pattern of lies : Nurse Noel

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Call me cynical but I also find some of the sudden switches from the likes of Leo and Harris to be not all that genuine given views they aired not so long ago:

https://twitter.com/MejTom/status/990556448269664256




Anyway, I'm out until after the Polls......

People can change their views on anything

- it's allowed - especially if they do a bit more research into something


If your post was representative of all men, they shouldn't have rights about breathing never mind about abortion

Macha

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

What does ^^^^^^ that post (I won't quote) have to do with the discussion? Obviously you have my sympathies for both your losses last year but how would anything have been different if the 8th amendment wasn't a thing here?

I thought it was quite obvious. I was trying to show how pregnancy and everything that can happen in a pregnancy happens to the woman's body. Actually before this campaign I never thought my situation would have been affected but I have heard some really scary stories about women with missed miscarriages being left for weeks and mishandled. Living in Belgium, I never had to worry for a second about the 8th.

Thank you but I don't want sympathy, I want understanding of what a responsibility and burden it can be to be pregnant, whether than pregnancy goes well or not.

s7ryf3925pivug

The referendum result will influence whether we try for a second child. In the event of a no, personally at this time I would be unhappy with the risks directly to my wife, directly to the possible second child, and indirectly to my baby son.

My wife has a condition which statistically would be likely present during pregnancy. Were it to happen, it would place her, our son, and the foetus at risk.

The most effective and safest treatment is tetragenic medication, with the greatest tetrogenic effects in the first trimester. The alternative treatments are damaging and not acceptable to either of us. So in this case abortion would be a no-brainer, even though we would absolutely have been wanting the child.

In the event of it occurring with the 8th in place, she might be physically restrained for a significant time and forced to undergo damaging physical treatment, as this would be the safest thing for the foetus. She would experience lasting damage, and be at greater risk of further relapse. This notion is frightening, and it makes me angry. But there wouldn't be much I could do in this scenario.

Doubt this will change anyone's mind, but there it is. I'm not really open to discussing this further, as it is personal and emotive, and tbh I would not take kindly to hostile responses.

uptherebels

rn wrote: »

I believe, in the normal consenting adults cases, the man should have some say in right to an abortion. I also believe that abortion should be a medical matter only. So saving life of mother or treating FFA, doctors should not be restricted in their choices of treatments available. I believe it should be a panel of doctors, because we are talking about potential human person.

I do not agree with current proposed legislation, the 12 week unrestricted part. I usually vote FG and if it's passed, I will not vote FG in next election, as I no longer believe the party reflects my own values.

I think it'll be close, as in around 52-48, which in a one question vote is very tight.

If it's a win for the yes side, I think the no side will not fall away. I think it will switch to lobbying tds on any proposed legislation.

If no side win I think yes side will be bitterly disappointed and will lobby for a re run. There will be no reruns in life of this government or the next one if FF are party in power. So it will be several years before we see anything on this again.

The only rights a man can have is to agree with a decision or disagree with it, unless you want them to be able to force a woman to remain pregnant?
Also if only for medical reasons then they won't get a choice anyway.
To bad the no side aren't for voting yes and lobbying for what they want now , where they can actually love both as they claim instead of only loving the fetus as is now.

Wibbs

The polling stations have opened so we're locking this thread until the results are in. Thanks to all for their contributions.