Operation Transformation

Arduach

First Up wrote: »

He was given zero advice or instruction. As I recall he was told to do nothing. Yet he has a measurable reduction in muscle mass. Would it not have been both wiser and a bit smarter to guide him into a programme to build muscle on the days he isn't running?

I know how a training programme works and I don't know any more than anyone else about the guy's mileage or intensity. But the ONLY thing Karl Henry talked about was his running. I thought it very poor analysis and advice to someone who is bursting with energy and motivation.

We wouldn't be privy to the full detail. But it's obvious he overdid the running, above what he was told. I'm inclined to believe the stance of the 4 experts over his reaction.

Bursting with motivation and energy will disipate very quickly if you burn out.

You have Suzanna at one extreme of no motivation. Andrew at the opposite, he needs reigning in, like a willing horse. So what if he felt temporary frustration the other night. That's life. He needed that lesson.

The two model leaders are Hazel and Sharon. Steady weekly performance. They are changing in a sustainable manner.

As said earlier Andrew would have been given more detail I'm sure. You can't fit all that into a one hour show. If he walked instead of ran those days. To burn off 2ib muscle in a week takes doing. Deep down Andrew knows. He won't be the first or last person to overdo it.

It's good to see he's a good, willing determined man.

The likes of Eddie has seen every personality type in his clinic. He wouldn't be slow in saying if he disagreed with Karl and Aoife. Has done in the past.

screamer

I'm no fan of the format of OT, I refer to it as Operation Shame the Nation, I don't agree with putting people into horrible figure hugging clothes, and I dislike the chats about menstruation.

I agree, the food plans are awful, I thought about following them this year, and when I looked them up, i said no way I'd eat half that stuff, so for me, it's not worthwhile, as I know I'd not keep doing it. I turned to slimming world instead, and it's working well.

For next year, I'd like to see lazy leaders booted off it, so many people would love a chance for that level of support to lose weight, people who are not committed should be shown the door.
Realistic food plans tailored to what the person will eat, not what a dietitian pulls out of their head

My favorite this year is Hazel, she deserves much happiness in life.
I do have to say though that Andrew is impressive, although, how many of us have someone to cook our food every day, or run 5K every day, I don't think is realistic. Still, he's done well and looks great.

First Up

Arduach wrote:

We wouldn't be privy to the full detail. But it's obvious he overdid the running, above what he was told. I'm inclined to believe the stance of the 4 experts over his reaction.

He overdid the running because nothing else seems to have been suggested to replace it.

Arduach wrote:

As said earlier Andrew would have been given more detail I'm sure. You can't fit all that into a one hour show. If he walked instead of ran those days. To burn off 2ib muscle in a week takes doing. Deep down Andrew knows. He won't be the first or last person to overdo it.

A half decent strength and conditioning programme in 40-50 minutes twice a week instead of running would balance his programme.

Arduach wrote:

The likes of Eddie has seen every personality type in his clinic. He wouldn't be slow in saying if he disagreed with Karl and Aoife. Has done in the past.

I would have expected Eddie to point out to Karl the importance of building motivation, not demeaning it

And its rein in by the way.

Sandor Clegane

First Up wrote: »

He was given zero advice or instruction. As I recall he was told to do nothing. Yet he has a measurable reduction in muscle mass. Would it not have been both wiser and a bit smarter to guide him into a programme to build muscle on the days he isn't running?

I know how a training programme works and I don't know any more than anyone else about the guy's mileage or intensity. But the ONLY thing Karl Henry talked about was his running. I thought it very poor analysis and advice to someone who is bursting with energy and motivation.

I honestly don't think these experts are able to programme in any great detail, the advice they give is very very basic and generic.

They really only cater to people who are in terrible condition and are only capable of minimal movement, the advice they give will work on that type of person but Andrew has gone on a level and they don't really no what to do with him.

appledrop

It's time for Aoife and Karl to go.

Aoife has failed 2 leaders this year and also failed Andrew last week.

So her food plan has only worked for 2 leaders.

Not good enough. Paul is a plain eater like a huge portion of Irish society especially rural Ireland. Her plans for him has been ridiculous. Yes you have to count calories etc but could easily adapt it for him if she was bothered. Her will put weight back on minute it's finished not because he is lazy but because she has not helped him adapt his portion sizes etc of food he likes.

Susuanna has African heritage and is entitled to eat her own food. Again all Aoife has to do is work with her and adapt her food but she won't its her food or your not trying.

Now I will give her some leeway with Andrew as only this week didn't get it right but I'm no dieteian and even I know that for likes of Andrew who is burning muscle you make sure he is eating plenty of protein ike Rugby guys etc would eat.

Karl I've no time for anymore either. Again all focus on walking, running. What about as others have said dancing for Susanna?

The most ridiculous thing was telling Andrew to stop running and have I think they said 2 or 3 rest days. Go away out of that all mental health evidence is if exercise makes you feel good do it! By all means get him doing strengthening exercise but ffs all they need to do is up his protein and carbs intake and let him exercise!

First Up

Sandor Clegane wrote:

They really only cater to people who are in terrible condition and are only capable of minimal movement, the advice they give will work on that type of person but Andrew has gone on a level and they don't really no what to do with him.

He has brought them to places they weren't expecting but I'd have hoped they'd be better able to deal with that.

The candidates doing the project know nothing of the science involved and are depending completely on the advice they are getting from the "experts". In this case at least, they are being badly let down.

Cazale

Maybe he could have squatted with 500ml bottles of water instead of the running.

DeepBlue

The state of play at the penultimate episode with the final weigh-in next week:

Leader | Start Weight (kg) | Current Weight (kg) | Weight loss (kg) | Weight Loss %
Hazel | 131.3 | 121.4 | 9.9 | 7.54
Paul | 100.2 | 89.8 | 10.4 | 10.37
Sharon | 96.3 | 88.7 | 7.7 | 7.99
Andrew | 89.7 | 79.5 | 10.2 | 11.37
Susuana | 119.2 | 114.9 | 4.3 | 3.60

Just looking at it from a numbers perspective it's clear that the programme is working best for Paul and Andrew.

Arguably Paul is performing the best of the leaders given that he's been knocked back by injury and covid restrictions.

Susuana is also losing weight albeit at half the rate of the other two ladies on the show so clearly she is putting some work in despite how it's shown on TV.

I guess you have to remember it's a reality TV show and all participants are at the mercy of the editor.
From watching I got the impression that Hazel and Sharon were blitzing it but actually they are mid table (not that it's a competition but just in reference to how the show is edited and how the participants are portrayed).

Arduach

First Up wrote: »

He overdid the running because nothing else seems to have been suggested to replace it.



A half decent strength and conditioning programme in 40-50 minutes twice a week instead of running would balance his programme.


I would have expected Eddie to point out to Karl the importance of building motivation, not demeaning it

And its rein in by the way.

Because nothing was to replace it of strenuous activity. That's the point. He'd burn out with a heavy S&C session in place of it too. I can't make it anymore simple for you.

Yes from now on he will need S&C. But as I pointed out earlier he got to his target 2 weeks early.

Yes rein...mobile phones use spell check incorrectly some times.

You don't seem to understand anything about taking instruction. He acted off his own bat. If you were involved in athletics, any team sport etc you have to do what your coaches say or you wouldn't be playing next day. Same with athletics, you'd be told you were stale, burning out. Do NOTHING. I played pro rugby union. I'm not a complete novice.

strandroad

Andrew is in a hype stage and they recognise that, he is obviously delighted but also on an endorphin high and very hyper. His weight drop this week is too serious for it to be that bit of running alone - he's probably too excited to eat! It could be 100% protein in his plan but it doesn't matter if he's not eating enough to maintain. If you keep doing it you'll crash and burn.

But there are ways to settle him in a gentler way. When they asked him to dial down cardio they could have suggested doing some of Eddie's mindfulness activities (to learn to settle in his new body and appreciate it) instead, to come down from the high in a controlled way.

strandroad

I must say I warmed to Paul, he's clearly the type who'll do the right thing but he'll grumble every step of the way to anyone who will listen... his family are only rolling their eyes at him, they must be used to it.
He looks so much healthier even in his face. I'd love to hear about his pre-diabetes results and his sleep quality now.

Wottle

Some questionable undertones in this thread regarding Susanna from some posters, shame on them.
Both her trainer and nutritionist have let her down badly. Karl with that threat towards her of, "go on quit then" shows me what a weak trainer he really is. Her base fitness is poor and it's only been a few weeks, pace shouldn't be the goal for her right now. It should have been about building the habit, whether it's walking, dancing or a step workout.
The nutritionist failing to embrace her clients cultural food is pathetic and again shows how poor she is. We're trying to implement life long changes, of course Susanna is going to go off script.
She's been let down by the show and they've both given up on each other.

Hazel and Sharon are fantastic leaders and the plan suits them well.

Andrew was right to stand his ground as the communication was all wrong, it came across as negative. Karl's demeanour was appalling. I agree with Karl regarding burnout but how he got his point across was strange and negative.

All he had to say was... WOW you're doing great but I'm a little worried for you regarding burnout and the possibility of picking up an injury, this is all new to you, its easy to get addicted to running but let's have a down week and give your bones, muscles, ligaments and tendons a chance to catch up with your aerobic system and I can't wait to see you rock the 5k...

That's all, same result but one leaves him buzzing

First Up

Arduach wrote:

You don't seem to understand anything about taking instruction. He acted off his own bat. If you were involved in athletics, any team sport etc you have to do what your coaches say or you wouldn't be playing next day. Same with athletics, you'd be told you were stale, burning out. Do NOTHING. I played pro rugby union. I'm not a complete novice.

My 10+ years of club athletics and 6 marathons doesn't make me a novice either. I know what serious training involves.

From what I've seen, Andrew is the only one on OT with potential and his transition from slob to budding athlete has been interesting to watch. It's a pity that the programme and the people they use on it aren't able to keep pace.

Yes, it's only a TV show aimed at couch potatoes but the people presenting as "experts" (especially Karl Henry) should be able to adapt to that.

Muahahaha

Heard on the radio that Andrew did the 5k in 24 minutes and some change earlier on today, great time. Sounds like he has the running bug now.

Arduach

First Up wrote: »

My 10+ years of club athletics and 6 marathons doesn't make me a novice either. I know what serious training involves.

From what I've seen, Andrew is the only one on OT with potential and his transition from slob to budding athlete has been interesting to watch. It's a pity that the programme and the people they use on it aren't able to keep pace.

Yes, it's only a TV show aimed at couch potatoes but the people presenting as "experts" (especially Karl Henry) should be able to adapt to that.

You're quite wound up over nothing. When you started resorting to correcting spelling I knew you were a little, uncalm.

Andrew was never a 'slob' that's insulting. The only one with Potential?? Have Sharon, Hazel, Paul and even Susanna, if she focused, not potential to live healthy lives? That's what's at stake here. It's not a show called 'Find a Potential Athlete'.

10+ years of club athletics, is that all? I reached that at 17

A TV show aimed at couch potatoes...well, well haven't we notions.

Arduach

Muahahaha wrote: »

Heard on the radio that Andrew did the 5k in 24 minutes and some change earlier on today, great time. Sounds like he has the running bug now.

If Karl couldn't keep with an 8 min mile pace, I would seriously question his fitness levels! Whatever about his expertise. His build etc he should at least be able to do 3 miles around the 21 minutes mark.

P.s. 8 min mile pace is very good for a 33 year old newcomer to running. Hope Andrew keeps it up. And makes steady progress.

Princess Calla

DeepBlue wrote: »

The state of play at the penultimate episode with the final weigh-in next week:

Leader | Start Weight (kg) | Current Weight (kg) | Weight loss (kg) | Weight Loss %
Hazel | 131.3 | 121.4 | 9.9 | 7.54
Paul | 100.2 | 89.8 | 10.4 | 10.37
Sharon | 96.3 | 88.7 | 7.7 | 7.99
Andrew | 89.7 | 79.5 | 10.2 | 11.37
Susuana | 119.2 | 114.9 | 4.3 | 3.60

Just looking at it from a numbers perspective it's clear that the programme is working best for Paul and Andrew.

Arguably Paul is performing the best of the leaders given that he's been knocked back by injury and covid restrictions.

Susuana is also losing weight albeit at half the rate of the other two ladies on the show so clearly she is putting some work in despite how it's shown on TV.

I guess you have to remember it's a reality TV show and all participants are at the mercy of the editor.
From watching I got the impression that Hazel and Sharon were blitzing it but actually they are mid table (not that it's a competition but just in reference to how the show is edited and how the participants are portrayed).

You can't really compare male vs female weight lose though.

Men generally lose weight at a faster rate , generally men carry weight around their stomach and as this decreases metabolic rate increases. Which in turn increases weight lose.

Women generally carry weight around their thighs, hips boobs etc for childbearing or as a result of child bearing, reduction of weight here doesn't result in an increase of metabolic rate.

Arduach

Princess Calla wrote: »

You can't really compare male vs female weight lose though.

Men generally lose weight at a faster rate , generally men carry weight around their stomach and as this decreases metabolic rate increases. Which in turn increases weight lose.

Women generally carry weight around their thighs, hips boobs etc for childbearing or as a result of child bearing, reduction of weight here doesn't result in an increase of metabolic rate.

Absolutely 1-2 ibs are usual targets for the females. The males generally double it.

Stars of the show for me Sharon and Hazel. Great attitude, lovely people. They also had lovely supporting families. Sharon's daughter Paige was so supportive of her mam. I hope she benefits too. Same with Hazel's daughter. Just shows the value of support.

The other leaders had good support too but Sharon and Hazel stood out. Such happy homes, full of laughter.

First Up

Arduach wrote:

You're quite wound up over nothing. When you started resorting to correcting spelling I knew you were a little, uncalm.

Not your spelling - your command of the English language.

Arduach

First Up wrote: »

Not your spelling - your command of the English language.

Typing quickly on a phone! You're a beaten docket when you have to resort to such pettiness.

First Up

Arduach wrote:

Typing quickly on a phone! You're a beaten docket when you have to resort to such pettiness.

A phone is no excuse for confusing reign with rein.

And when someone posting at midnight and 1.30 in the morning accuses me of being wound up about it, I think it's clear which of us is resorting to pettiness.

Arduach

First Up wrote: »

A phone is no excuse for confusing reign with rein.

And when someone posting at midnight and 1.30 in the morning accuses me of being wound up about it, I think it's clear which of us is resorting to pettiness.

My God you are triggered. Are you familiar with spell check? Napoleon's 'reign' as emperor lasted from December 1804 until his first abdication in 1814. You need to 'rein' in that horse. Spellcheck can have a predisposition to using either form of the word, great grandad.

I was up calving cows with my brother last night.

Maybe you could have some hot cocoa to help with your temper tantrums.

Your preoccupation with spelling and grammar is very D4 west Brit. Is fear bródúil gaelach mise.

Rodin

Does anyone of a healthy weight watch this show?

Why? Just curious.

Arduach

Rodin wrote: »

Does anyone of a healthy weight watch this show?

Why? Just curious.

I do some years. It's nice to see people turn their lives around, particularly those who have gained weight and are living an unhealthy lifestyle through loss or life trauma.

First Up

Arduach wrote:

Your preoccupation with spelling and grammar is very D4 west Brit. Is fear bródúil gaelach mise.

You must have been an easily riled up on the rugby pitch. Did your coach ever advise you about that? A professional player like you should be wise to that sort of thing. I was only an amateur but I could spot that a mile off.

And a professional personal trainer like Karl Henry should be better able to motivate and guide someone - on camera or off.

I hope the calves were able to do without you while you were sharing your wisdom with us here.

Arduach

First Up wrote: »

You must have been an easily riled up on the rugby pitch. Did your coach ever advise you about that? A professional player like you should be wise to that sort of thing. I was only an amateur but I could spot that a mile off.

And a professional personal trainer like Karl Henry should be better able to motivate and guide someone - on camera or off.

Only one person out of control here

You're on ignore. An amateur in every respect

Beau

I think the talk of Andrew burning out is over blown. Our bodies are capable of so much more than we think. I think the show is putting limitations on him because he's reached "healthy" metrics. He's capable of doing so much more and should be encouraged.

strandroad

Rodin wrote: »

Does anyone of a healthy weight watch this show?

Why? Just curious.

I do, yeah. Just to see how they progress.

Princess Calla

Rodin wrote: »

Does anyone of a healthy weight watch this show?

Why? Just curious.

Yeah I do. My BMI would be bang on "normal" .

The only time I've ever been on a diet was when I had gestational diabetes and by God was I miserable.....I weighed less at 9 months pregnant than I did at the start of the pregnancy so I obviously don't follow diet guidelines well.

I would have been a keen follower of biggest loser too, but don't watch it now as it got way too drawn out.

I don't know I like seeing people go on a journey and achieve their goals.

I also know that genetically I'm lucky as I've a high metabolism and can eat a whole load of sh*te and not see the scales move.....I don't drink though. I also stop eating a meal as soon as I feel uncomfortabley full regardless of how nice or what's left on the plate.

I could also do with doing more exercise.... tomorrow

Sunny Dayz

Rodin wrote: »

Does anyone of a healthy weight watch this show?

Why? Just curious.

Yes. I like to see the people try to make some improvement in their lives. I like how the show moves beyond the tv screen and motivates people to get up and get active with local OT walks (pre covid), involvement in parkruns, gaa clubs etc. January is always such a gloomy month - it gets communities up and about.
However on the flip side of it, as soon as the show is over, a good lot of people stop with it.