Kids. Yes or no ?

Luxxis

Yes.

They are delicious.

Elemonator

Loads of men in their 20's run at that question and say they don't want kids, most change their minds.

Plopsu

LirW wrote: »

If you have kids and everything was easy, then that's good for you, you'll most likely connect that to a lot of joy. But sometimes the process of having children can be incredibly distressing, have a long-term impact on your health, cause relationships to fall apart with the person you absolutely love.

For some people life isn't all ponies and roses.

Or having a disabled child that needs 24-7 care without knowing before. A rare case but if it happens to you, you're f'd.

Yup, the relationship breakup rates for couple who have a child with a disability is huge.

LirW

Plopsu wrote: »

Yup, the relationship breakup rates for couple who have a child with a disability is huge.

And in a lot of cases it's the mother that gives up her job to care for the disabled child living from carer's allowance.

Malari

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

Pros of not having: freedom to do more like to on holidays (go out in the evenings etc), get aways, go to peaceful places to relax in peace without noise, not having to worry about a little one, sleep without distraction, financial well being of not supporting another human for food, clothes, toys, crèche, school fees , college etc.

These are mostly my pros list of not having kids, but as other have pointed out, they are generally not considered cons for people who do have kids.

We sometimes say to each other "imagine if we had kids now, we couldn't do xyz!" But if we had wanted them our priorities would be different anyway.

seamus

fattymuatty wrote: »

They can fetch my charger for me when it's upstairs and bring me a cup of tea in bed at the weekends after a lie in. Of course there have been times that are more difficult than others and I'm sure we will face lots more challenges in the future but overall it has been a joy to parent them.

This is the thing. Once they can wipe their own arses, then the physically difficult bit has mostly gone away. They can entertain themselves, you can kick them out the front door to go play with their mates and if you want to go somewhere, you don't need bring a bag full of stuff with you.

Even nights out are easy, send the kids to bed and get a mate/sibling/parent to sit in your house watching TV and eating your food.

I'd never lie to anyone about it; the first 6-18 months can be a real chore. Proper, "WTF have I done to myself" territory. The first 6 in particular.

But after the first child you realise how short an amount of time that 6-18 months actually is. That's why people go a 2nd/3rd/4th time, because it's not actually that hard in retrospect and five years is not a long time.

CelticRambler

How many times have we had this question in the last three years? :pac:

Well, as it's still the same question, and still the same "reasons for not having" ...

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

freedom to do more like to on holidays (go out in the evenings etc), get aways, go to peaceful places to relax in peace without noise, not having to worry about a little one, sleep without distraction, financial well being of not supporting another human for food, clothes, toys, crèche, school fees , college etc.

... my contribution is the same: having five children under five never stopped me or my wife going on holidays, going out in the evening, getting away, or going to peaceful places to relax without noise - except (of course) having to deal with the noise made by idiot drunken adults, or the hassle caused by idiot adult teachers arguing that my six-year-old daughter was better off in school learning about the letter S rather than going to Italy and practising the Italian she'd been learning for three months. :mad: (Hassle more than compensated for by extreme smugness when a little Italian girl joined the class the next term, and my daughter was the only one in the school who could speak to her :P )

As for all the "expense" - well, most of that is optional. It sounds like a cliché, but it's true: my children (like my cats :pac: ) would always get more fun out of a cardboard box than any of the expensive plastic tat that their granny bought for them. :rolleyes:

And the less you worry about children, the better. They'll thank you for it later! :cool:

Whispered

I never wanted kids. I was absolutely anti ever having a child. I have a three year old and I'm so glad life didn't work out as I had planned. I don't think I'd regret not having kids if I hadn't, but now he's here and I know him, my life is much richer in totally different ways.

I'm currently listening to him play in his room singing "granny shark do do do do do". It's gas.

fattymuatty

seamus wrote: »

This is the thing. Once they can wipe their own arses, then the physically difficult bit has mostly gone away. They can entertain themselves, you can kick them out the front door to go play with their mates and if you want to go somewhere, you don't need bring a bag full of stuff with you.

Even nights out are easy, send the kids to bed and get a mate/sibling/parent to sit in your house watching TV and eating your food.

I'd never lie to anyone about it; the first 6-18 months can be a real chore. Proper, "WTF have I done to myself" territory. The first 6 in particular.

But after the first child you realise how short an amount of time that 6-18 months actually is. That's why people go a 2nd/3rd/4th time, because it's not actually that hard in retrospect and five years is not a long time.

For sure the early years fly by, it may be something to do with the sleep deprivation. I have two and we had them fairly close together so overall I think we spent about maybe 3 years of tough lack of sleep, nappy changes, feedings, needing to bring half the house when we left the house etc It was gone in the blink of an eye really.

Now it's come on we are going out and they get their shoes on and we go. Holidays, they like doing the same stuff we like doing, so we can head off exploring for the day and don't have to worry about the kids not being to walk all the way or needing snacks or nappy changes. If we want to have a lazy weekend the kids are all for chilling out and watching movies or whatever.

We are almost at the teen years now though and I am sure that will be interesting :pac:

jooksavage

Whispered wrote: »

I never wanted kids. I was absolutely anti ever having a child. I have a three year old and I'm so glad life didn't work out as I had planned. I don't think I'd regret not having kids if I hadn't, but now he's here and I know him, my life is much richer in totally different ways.

I'm currently listening to him play in his room singing "granny shark do do do do do". It's gas.

Same. Repulsed by other people's children. And adults who define themselves as parents first need a kick in the hole. I wasn't 100% sure how I'd feel about our baby til after she was born. For about 4 weeks after that I was just as uncertain. Now she's 6 months old and I can't imagine life without her. I think a lot of it comes down to your partner. I couldn't do it without her and she says she couldn't do it without me (she could - she's just being kind). We still have a lovely life together, just now more of it revolves around folding baby vests and changing nappies.

Jennifer Eccles

I've got three. All up and running, almost.
I love them and they've been the best - never a moments angst from them in terms of trouble ( drugs/violence/underage pregnancies etc).
Now at this stage they're not only my children, but my pals. They compliment my life, send me ideas, tell me whats out there in the current entertainments scene, introduce me to new books I might find interesting, share recipes and new knowledge. And they ask questions, look for advice, as do I. I can add to their knowledge and experience, and they drag me along in this ever more techno world, and make sure I'm not left behind, which I think is important as you get older.

However, let me say this.... my husband and I separated 8 years ago.
He believes that my needs and focus changed seismically from the first childbirth. Up to then, we lived for each other - but my "inability to prioritise our relationship in favour of our children", was ultimately the rock on which our ship perished, he felt.

He says he continued to regard me as his most important priority, with the kids next. And he expected the same in return.
Wasn't to be - he felt progressively more undervalued and less loved... to be honest, I noticed we were having much less time together, but my life was filled by stuff concerning my children, their education, their extra-curricular pursuits - dance lessons, sport etc.

And he gets it completely that this was not intentional on my part....we've discussed it at length and he described it as more an inevitable hormonal change that is so primordial - it ensures the survival of the next generation - nature ensuring its own continuance.

So, just a word of caution - things change in many respects upon the arrival of children, and it's a huge challenge to maintain the dynamic between the original two lovers who started the whole thing.

Would I do anything differently: I'd love NOT to be divorced, love to still have the full family unit around the dinner table, and if I were to go back 25 years, I'd write a letter to myself to keep in mind that I married my hubby for love of him, first, before we ever thought of having children.
Just being blatantly honest.

Jennifer Eccles

Whispered wrote: »

I never wanted kids. I was absolutely anti ever having a child. I have a three year old and I'm so glad life didn't work out as I had planned. I don't think I'd regret not having kids if I hadn't, but now he's here and I know him, my life is much richer in totally different ways.

I'm currently listening to him play in his room singing "granny shark do do do do do". It's gas.

Lovely post. "Rich" is the word!

Malari

@Jennifer Eccles, I feel like our relationship would have suffered too if we had kids. We are everything to each other, and I think kids would have strained that to breaking point. I think he would have let me take up a lot of slack and would have tried to prevent his life from changing as much as possible, and even though I would have wanted that too I would have got on with things. It's not a criticism of him at all, it's just a fact. We've spoken about it

Sky King

Having kids is risky, they could turn out to be complete dicks.

Then not only would you have wasted many precious years of your life that you could have been travelling or playing Xbox, the kicker is that you are only capable of raising a family of dicks, so you have failed at the one thing that you sacrificed so much for.

Why risk it?

Jennifer Eccles

Yep @Marari.
Awareness is there main thing. If you know what to watch out for, you can guard against it.
But I was all busy busy busy in the kidzone. Figured that taking best care of the kids was taking best care of my family = best care of my hubby. Not so. We never fought or anything - he just drifted away into other interests and one morning we were just too far apart to return....
But it needn't be so for everyone. There's 1000's of types of relationships out there. And many happy families who survive children, and are embellished by them.

It's just, nobody told me to watch out for the fact that my hormones changed how I looked at life. Hormones that weren't there before I became pregnant.

Whispered

I would imagine many many relationships suffer short term for having kids. Even if just for the fact that your personal and relationship needs have to take a back seat for a short while. Then throw in chronic fatigue and the fact your life is unrecognisable from only few short months previous. It's a shock to the system!
(That's not even considering the storm of hormonal crap that's going on for the first while).

Pat Mustard

Interesting article on children and their place within the family:

"Why your kids should not be the most important people in your family"

I went on to point out that many if not most of the problems they're having with their kids - typical stuff, these days - are the result of treating their children as if they, their marriage, and their family exist because of the kids when it is, in fact, the other way around. Their kids exist because of them and their marriage and thrive because they have created a stable family.

Furthermore, without them, their kids wouldn't eat well, have the nice clothing they wear, live in the nice home in which they live, enjoy the great vacations they enjoy, and so on. Instead of lives that are relatively carefree (despite the drama to the contrary that they occasionally manufacture), their children would be living lives full of worry and want.

This issue is really the heart of the matter. People my age know it's the heart of the matter because when we were kids it was clear to us that our parents were the most important people in our families. And that, right there, is why we respected our parents and that, right there, is why we looked up to adults in general. Yes, once upon a time, children were second-class citizens - to their advantage.

It was also clear to us - I speak, of course, in general terms, albeit accurate - that our parents' marriages were more important to them than their relationships with us.

Therefore, we did not sleep in their beds or interrupt their conversations. The family meal, at home, was regarded as more important than after-school activities. Mum and Dad talked more - a lot more - with one another than they talked with you. For lack of pedestals, we emancipated earlier and much more successfully than have children since.

The most important person in an army is the general. The most important person in a corporation is the CEO. The most important person in a classroom is the teacher. And the most important person in a family are the parents.

The most important thing about children is the need to prepare them properly for responsible citizenship. The primary objective should not be raising a straight-A student who excels at three sports, earns a spot on the Olympic swim team, goes to an A-list university and becomes a prominent brain surgeon. The primary objective is to raise a child such that community and culture are strengthened.

"Our child is the most important person in our family" is the first step toward raising a child who feels entitled.

You don't want that. Unbeknownst to your child, he doesn't need that.

John Rosemond is a family psychologist.

(This is not a dig at the poster Jennifer Eccles).

Jennifer Eccles

Pat Mustard wrote: »

Interesting article on children and their place within the family:

"Why your kids should not be the most important people in your family"

(This is not a dig at the poster Jennifer Eccles).

Great article. Would loved to have read that 15 years ago....

eviltimeban

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

Pros of not having: freedom to do more like to on holidays (go out in the evenings etc), get aways, go to peaceful places to relax in peace without noise, not having to worry about a little one, sleep without distraction, financial well being of not supporting another human for food, clothes, toys, crèche, school fees , college etc.

All those things pretty much disappear after the first few years. Once you've got kids over the age 6 hump, you can do all those things. The older they get, the less of your day to day time they take up. Sure, there's school and college but that's also a finite issue.

seamus

Whispered wrote: »

I would imagine many many relationships suffer short term for having kids.

Indeed. I recall after our first was born thinking about how many times I'd heard on US TV shows and similar about people having children "to save our relationship". And all I could think about was how utterly fncked you would be trying to raise a baby in an already-strained relationship.

For several months you are two people coexisting in the same house, practically colleagues working on a shared project rather than lovers in a relationship.

Especially if one parent takes on 99% of the work and the other one sits back and goes off to earn money or whatever, I can see how the latter partner would feel like they're being ignored or neglected by the one doing the parenting.

_Roz_

No, don't want them. Can't afford them. Can't emotionally cope with them. And most importantly - can't stand them. I am not equipped for motherhood. I had to endure my little cousin over Christmas and while everyone around me was saying 'isn't that so sweet' I literally just couldn't comprehend what was sweet or cute or even bearable about any of the things she was doing, including repeatedly hugging me and telling me I'm her favourite cousin, even though she had never met me before and therefore by definition does not know enough about me for me to be her favourite. Also she commented on me being fat (which to be fair was funny, I like blunt people of all ages), but if I commented on the condition affecting her face, I'd be the worst person in the world.

Why are random actions, illogical statements, and bluntness I can't respond to all acceptable ? "BECAUSE SHE'S A CHILD!!!!!!" Well, that's why I don't like them, I don't operate on their level. They're more than welcome to be children, just don't do it near me, because I'll probably say or do something inappropriate without meaning to.

Thankfully my partner doesn't want them either.

SEPT 23 1989

_Roz_ wrote: »

No, don't want them. Can't afford them. Can't emotionally cope with them. And most importantly - can't stand them. I am not equipped for motherhood. I had to endure my little cousin over Christmas and while everyone around me was saying 'isn't that so sweet' I literally just couldn't comprehend what was sweet or cute or even bearable about any of the things she was doing, including repeatedly hugging me and telling me I'm her favourite cousin, even though she had never met me before and therefore by definition does not know enough about me for me to be her favourite. Also she commented on me being fat (which to be fair was funny, I like blunt people of all ages), but if I commented on the condition affecting her face, I'd be the worst person in the world.

Why are random actions, illogical statements, and bluntness I can't respond to all acceptable ? "BECAUSE SHE'S A CHILD!!!!!!" Well, that's why I don't like them, I don't operate on their level. They're more than welcome to be children, just don't do it near me, because I'll probably say or do something inappropriate without meaning to.

Thankfully my partner doesn't want them either.

I think it's for the best

andekwarhola

_Roz_ wrote: »

Well, that's why I don't like them, I don't operate on their level

Really?

_Roz_

andekwarhola wrote: »

Really?

I can't relate to the 'you're my favourite' thing ten minutes after meeting someone, no. I don't know how to respond to it. Like I say, I lack whatever skill it is people have that makes interacting with kids easy or fun.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

andekwarhola wrote: »

I have kids now myself but the last thing me and friends were doing in our 20s was interminable navel gazing about probable kids down the line.

Sometimes not having the internet back then as much a boon as a hindrance

It's a perfectly normal thing to think about in your 20s. Myself and my friends often discussed it.

seamus

_Roz_ wrote: »

I can't relate to the 'you're my favourite' thing ten minutes after meeting someone, no. I don't know how to respond to it. Like I say, I lack whatever skill it is people have that makes interacting with kids easy or fun.

You know, you probably don't.

Most people find other peoples' children weird and intimidating. It's hard to know what to say to them, even when you have kids of your own.

The more time you spend around them though, the more you realise that they have no expectations of you. They're not expecting you to "perform" for their amusement.

Unlike an adult, a child doesn't care if you sit there and say nothing to them. They'll just go off and do their own thing.

mad muffin

As a parent, I say no to kids. And extra no to other people’s kids.

PandaPoo

I have 2 kids and I have loved every minute of being a parent. Both my kids are well behaved so that is a big part of it. If I had a little sh*t who ran around the place not listening to me im sure id enjoy it less.

I couldn't imagine not having them, I always wanted kids. I'd love to have another 2 but it wouldn't be the end of the world if it didn't happen. I'm only 26, my husband is 36 so he wants it sooner rather than later.

I can't think of any negatives for us. They both sleep 12+ hours a night, my parents always offer to take them overnight so we can do things alone.

andekwarhola

Karlie Mango Index wrote: »

It's a perfectly normal thing to think about in your 20s.

I'm sorry. You're right of course.

I'll edit my post now.

_Roz_

seamus wrote: »

You know, you probably don't.

Most people find other peoples' children weird and intimidating. It's hard to know what to say to them, even when you have kids of your own.

The more time you spend around them though, the more you realise that they have no expectations of you. They're not expecting you to "perform" for their amusement.

Unlike an adult, a child doesn't care if you sit there and say nothing to them. They'll just go off and do their own thing.

Maybe. As with all things there are exceptions and I've met some pretty cool kids. But overall its not for me on most levels.