Kids. Yes or no ?

_Roz_

_Roz_ wrote: »

Meant to say NEED TO know. Typo.

My kids seem to be able to name pretty much every Pokemon ever created. They do not "need" to know that either. I have never viewed the education of children through a "need to know" lens. Rather I educate my children in as much of a diversity of topics and skills and knowledge as I can bring.

When I see the chance to have new experiences with my kids I tend to leap at it. As much for their sake as mine. As I said one of the wonderful things about having children is it leads you to engage with life in ways you might not otherwise have.

So one day when talking to someone I know who has (legally) guns it came up that we could go out and learn how to use - respect - be safe around - clean - construct and deconstruct - some guns. So I took my daughter along.

If you have a bullet for a single shot 22cal rifle bolt action in your hand she can take it off you - load it - aim - and hit a small target at a respectable distance in under 10 seconds. I haven't beat her time yet.

_Roz_

seamus wrote: »

You don't have to only do the things that kids need to know. They don't need to know how to shoot a weapon, but most people (children and adults) would enjoy the experience of doing something exciting they've never done before.

True. Nobody NEEDS to shoot a weapon. World would be a whole lot greater if nobody ever did.

_Roz_

Deleted User wrote: »

My kids seem to be able to name pretty much every Pokemon ever created. They do not "need" to know that either.

A knowledge of pokemon never shot anybody in the face.

Deleted User wrote: »

If you have a bullet for a single shot 22cal rifle bolt action in your hand she can take it off you - load it - aim - and hit a small target at a respectable distance in under 10 seconds. I haven't beat her time yet.

AHA no thanks, I'll not have any children taking and loading weapons anywhere near me, ta very much.

Malari

_Roz_ wrote: »

True. Nobody NEEDS to shoot a weapon. World would be a whole lot greater if nobody ever did.

Zombie apocalypse, duh!

_Roz_

Malari wrote: »

Zombie apocalypse, duh!

Oh yeah, of course, sorry. My bad.

_Roz_

_Roz_ wrote: »

A knowledge of pokemon never shot anybody in the face.

_Roz_ wrote: »

True. Nobody NEEDS to shoot a weapon. World would be a whole lot greater if nobody ever did.

No one really _needs_ to fight either. But one of the reasons we like to teach martial arts is that quite often knowing how to fight leads people to not do so. There is a whole philosophy behind martial arts that teaches people not only how to fight - but how never to. We teach Brazlian JuJitsu to our daughter too. In fact we are teaching the basics of it already to our three year old son.

Ignorance of violence and means of violence can be as much part of violence as any other factor. Ignorance of guns has led to people being "shot in the face" quite often too. There is a way to teach martial arts - and use of guns - that instils a respect and caution for them that makes one _less_ likely to employ them intentionally or by means accidental.

But this is not one of the many threads on guns that the forum has already The conversation I had with my friend (the owner of the guns) about teaching children how to use a gun was inspired by someone else doing the same thing. Video here.

The point I was making is that having children can lead one to engage with life in ways that they might not otherwise have. Or even to re-engage in new and stimulating ways with things that had become mundane.

If guns trigger you (see what I did there!) then another example I have mentioned on the forum before is "windowing". This is where we got an incubator and a number of chicken eggs and delicately cut a hole in them which we re-sealed with transparent protective material.

My daughter and I then watched the entire process of development of the chicks from embryo to fluffy yellow hatchling. And as two of them died at different stages - as members of a group of eggs are wont to do - the entire process was an education in life and death for my daughter with which she was emotionally and intellectually invested.

Ain't no way - I think - I would be someone who fired guns and watched chicken embryos develop if it was not for how having children has caused me to engage and re-engage with aspects of life that otherwise would pass me entirely by.

sbsquarepants

Deleted User wrote: »

If guns trigger you (see what I did there!) then another example I have mentioned on the forum before is "windowing". This is where we got an incubator and a number of chicken eggs and delicately cut a hole in them which we re-sealed with transparent protective material.

Am I reading his right - you cut a hole in the eggs so you could see what happened inside?

sbsquarepants

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Am I reading his right - you cut a hole in the eggs so you could see what happened inside?

Yup. Great experience. More information here and here.

storker

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I love these threads, as already I can see the 'You should have kids' comment being used.

I'm 34, have no kids, and have no intention of changing that. So much so, that I don't have sex anymore on the off chance I'll get caught (well, that's not the only reason, but it's better than the 'I'm too ugly' reason!). I can understand why some people have them, but I've never wanted them. I'm great with them, my nieces and nephews love me, and I genuinely think it's because I don't have the smell of parent off me. They're grand, but anything more than 30 minutes with them and I'm done. They wreck my buzz, and they're not mine, so I walk away and do what I do.

But I too get asked why i'm not having them. I ended a fairly serious 7 year relationship, because I figured out that she wanted kids, as much as she said she didn't. It was hard, and took me a while to get over, but it was the right decision, and she's now married with a kid. But me, I'm a man-schild, for want of a better phrase. I can adult, I adult pretty good at times, but I still get that sense of wonderment only kids seem to get these days. I'm currently into watching Anime, I'm a big gamer, and I like privacy and peace to do my own thing. Kids would ruin that, and I don't have the patience for it, so it's a no brainer. I'm not doing anything spectacular with my life, but i'm doing what I want to do, whether that's stay in bed all day, game all day, have a smoke or two, and not have to worry about looking after anyone!

But it's my life, and i'm living it the way I want to. Some people would look at it and think it's a waste, and it's usually people who have kids that say this. But is it a waste? It's not to me. I'm spending my time the way I want to, and I don't want that to change.

It sounds like you have a pretty nice life there. If I hadn't had kids, I probably would have been saying more or less the same as you. The only thing I'd disagree with (a bit) is the part I've emphasised.

I get my own time and space to do my own thing, and so does my wife. Granted, not as much as we would if we were childless, but I remember being told a long time ago that when you have kids your life has to change, but it doesn't have to stop. Your own needs don't go away and shouldn't be denied, they just have to be re-balanced. I have come across some parents who (claim to) have no time to themselves and devote every waking moment to their kids. I think those people are either bull5hitters, crazy, or have too many kids. Obviously this is N/A for parents with disabled or chronically sick kids.

By the way, the above is not intended in any way to invalidate your choice, rather to correct an idea that does seem to be common that says when you have kids you must become a hollowed out husk in terms of living your own life. Now for some people it may be that way, but it doesn't have to be.

EDIT: "You can play the same games together" is a lie. They'll think your games are boring and they'll pick their own - ones that you don't like.

sbsquarepants

Deleted User wrote: »

Yup. Great experience. More information here and here.

Cheers.

I had no idea you could do that!

sbsquarepants

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Cheers.

I had no idea you could do that!

My point exactly. Neither did I!

But since having children I have wanted to supplement their education and lust for life and I have been reading (and reading and reading) about things you can do to engage with your children and feed their natural curiosity and learning and interest in science.

Neil DeGrasse Tyson in just about every Q+A after every talk gets asked how we can get children interested in science. His answer every time is that they already are. It is the adults that are the problem and have lost it.

So I am trying to live the opposite of his view on that and by highly engaged with nurturing their natural curiosities rather than stifle them as we are prone to doing all too often as parents.

I hunt and fish for my own meat too where possible. Usually wild rabbit but other things too. Seeing how meat is caught and killed and prepared is another engagement with learning that a child simply does not get from coming to the supermarket to help you pick up some pre-packaged pork cutlets.

Generally children love life and the world - and want to engage with it and learn about it as much as possible. I have loved walking that path with them so far rather than the "go watch some tele" or "dont you have those new toys I bought you to play with?" approach to parenting I have seen all too often around me.

sbsquarepants

Deleted User wrote: »

Neil DeGrasse Tyson in just about every Q+A after every talk gets asked how we can get children interested in science. His answer every time is that they already are. It is the adults that are the problem and have lost it.

So I am trying to live the opposite of his view on that and by highly engaged with nurturing their natural curiosities rather than stifle them as we are prone to doing all too often as parents.

.

Absolutely.

I always try explain things as much as possible (kids are still very young). I hate to see kids fobbed off with "just is" answers. If you don't know, say you don't know and that you'll try find out for them. Kids really want to learn - they're going to soak up something, anything, so it may as well be something useful and truthful rather than nonsense.

Exactly! There is also the problem that we tend to want to protect the innocence of our children. Rightly so as it is a beautiful and wonderful thing. But all too often people can mistake the requirement for maintaining their innocence as a requirement to maintain their ignorance.

A thread on a similar forum to this about "When to have the talk with your child" over the last weeks reminds me of this. My daughter already knows the basics of sexual reproduction in animals - including humans. There is no "the talk" for me rather the iterative introduction of steadily more information over time. At absolutely no cost to the precious childhood innocence I value as much as anyone else.

Not only are they sponges for information as you describe - they also take that information without any of the hang-ups and judgements and embarrassment and triggering that we as adults all too often feel vicariously on their behalf.

RoboRat

There is a whole philosophy behind martial arts that teaches people not only how to fight - but how never to. We teach Brazlian JuJitsu to our daughter too.

7 years training BJJ myself and my 5 year old is starting when he turns 6 and my daughter will also train.

It's not about teaching them to be able to hurt people, but rather that they don't have to resort to violence as they have options because they can handle themselves.

When you know that you are well capable of looking after yourself you project that confidence which is a massive deterrent. You also learn to never make assumptions about your opponent either.

RoboRat

To give my 2 cents as a Dad of 2, I love my kids, they are my life. Are they a pain in the ass sometimes, hell yes!

Having kids changes this immeasurably but it doesn't stop you enjoying things - the things you enjoy just change. I go out about 4 - 5 times a year, I would much rather have a night in than have to suffer a hangover with a 1 year old and a 5 year old. My weekends are now filled with playgrounds, swimming, kids football and playing with my kids. Going out isn't as relevant anymore and being honest, I'm actually happier as a result.

It's bloody hard work raising children but so worth it. There is something wonderful about coming home from a hard day in work and having 2 kids bound up to you with utter excitement that you're home. There is no better feeling when you're kids astonish you with their accomplishments, or when you get a long hug just because they love you.

They can make you want to cry with frustration and laugh hysterically at their antics. They can pester you with questions and at the same time delight you with their grasp of life.

The only thing I really miss is lie in's - they are awake at 7am every day but my 5 year old is able to turn the TV on and my daughter is about a year away from being able to go down stairs by herself, then I think we can get the luxury of a lie in back again.

JupiterKid

I’ve heard that having children can make a person who was previously liberal or centrist in their political outlook more conservative and right-wing.

Do any boards parents agree with this statement?

SEPT 23 1989

JupiterKid wrote: »

I’ve heard that having children can make a person who was previously liberal or centrist in their political outlook more conservative and right-wing.

Do any boards parents agree with this statement?

Having children makes you focus on what's around you

BuboBubo

I'm 42 and happily childfree

Married 11 years ago , we built a big house (far too big for 2 people) I honestly thought I'd "change my mind" and want children in the future.

Roll on my 30's... into my 40's - still don't want them. I don't seem to have a biological clock at all. I don't enjoy being with children and tend to avoid places/events where they are present.

I doubt I'll change my mind at this stage. Thankfully my husband is happy to be childfree too.

Donald Trump

JupiterKid wrote: »

I’ve heard that having children can make a person who was previously liberal or centrist in their political outlook more conservative and right-wing.

Do any boards parents agree with this statement?

Ok, yes, we agree that you heard that

sbsquarepants

JupiterKid wrote: »

I’ve heard that having children can make a person who was previously liberal or centrist in their political outlook more conservative and right-wing.

Do any boards parents agree with this statement?

I have heard it anecdotally but I'm not sure there's much truth in it. Certainly hasn't been my experience anyway.
In my personal life i'm very much a live and let live, do whatever the hell you want type of person, always have been and I hope I always will be.
Politically, I'm getting more and more apathetic, but I don't thinks kids have anything to do with it do, I'm just sick of the lies. I'm finding it way to hard to differentiate between any of the parties anymore, so I'm tending to care less and less what any of them say or do.

seamus

JupiterKid wrote: »

I’ve heard that having children can make a person who was previously liberal or centrist in their political outlook more conservative and right-wing.

Do any boards parents agree with this statement?

Exactly the opposite in my experience.

People who become parents realise the world of opportunity that sits in front of their children and while wanting to protect them, also have no desire to artificially limit their children's future experiences based on conservative ideologies.

People who don't have children tend to become much more rigid in their thinking and set in their ways as time moves on, and become far less tolerant of social movements which may disrupt that.

Just my experience. YMMV - having kids probably actually makes no difference to your future political outlook at all.

jooksavage

JupiterKid wrote: »

I’ve heard that having children can make a person who was previously liberal or centrist in their political outlook more conservative and right-wing.

Do any boards parents agree with this statement?

The opposite. Having our daughter was a massive empathy bomb for me. I'm moving more into the "we need to take care of each other" mindset (and it's not just the liberal-guilt anymore )

I think some people get more conservative as they get older (which just coincides with having kids) but I don't think parenthood in itself is responsible for turning people to the right.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

seamus

jooksavage wrote: »

I think some people get more conservative as they get older (which just coincides with having kids) but I don't think parenthood in itself is responsible for turning people to the right.

More recent surveys/studies on this have tended towards the idea that peoples' ideologies become fairly set by the time you get into your 30s and actually don't deviate much from it at all. Some even found a softening of attitudes as people got older.

The difference is that what a 30-year-old "liberal" believed in 1987 looks like a conservative in 2017. So even if the 30-year-old in 2017 is slight right-of-centre, a 60 year old who was a liberal in their day is even more conservative in comparison.

CerebralCortex

seamus wrote: »

More recent surveys/studies on this have tended towards the idea that peoples' ideologies become fairly set by the time you get into your 30s and actually don't deviate much from it at all. Some even found a softening of attitudes as people got older.

The difference is that what a 30-year-old "liberal" believed in 1987 looks like a conservative in 2017. So even if the 30-year-old in 2017 is slight right-of-centre, a 60 year old who was a liberal in their day is even more conservative in comparison.

Also since when do "surveys/studies" become laws of nature? Gravity, thermodynamics and personal preferences. I think not.

seamus

CerebralCortex wrote: »

Also since when do "surveys/studies" become laws of nature? Gravity, thermodynamics and personal preferences. I think not.

Poster presents a viewpoint. I present an alternative.

It's called discussion. What's the issue?

CerebralCortex

seamus wrote: »

Poster presents a viewpoint. I present an alternative.

It's called discussion. What's the issue?

Not with you, with the idea that a study describes individuals perfectly.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

Plenty of valid points here in this thread.

Slightly surprised at the poll results,

Didn't expect so many people without children and happy, also I find the last two options of regretting being on par interesting.

Personally I don't think myself not having one or two children is going to save the planet or even have an impact on it. They would need to be mass numbers worldwide for that

The arguments to and for seem to repeat somewhat,

Having kids brings joy but for unknown reasons

Not having kids is great for freedom etc.

I have being reading this thread actively and I think I'm keeping my mind set to my original thought of not having kids

Hopefully I can find a like minded female to share life with and thanks to this thread it seems more possible and I'm more optimistic about such.

KERSPLAT!

Unknown reasons? Unknown to you I assume, I know why my son brings me joy. There are hundreds of reasons.

Galwayguy35

Always thought I would have them when I was younger but I'm 43 now and if it doesn't happen in the next few years I think I will be too old to become a father.