Does opposing a United Ireland automatically make you unpatriotic?

FrancieBrady · 07-01-2018 7:16pm

markodaly wrote: »

No, its just tiring and boring having to argue the same nonsense year in year out.

Well you know what to do about that? Don't make statements you cannot defend.

Terrorist is a redundant word here. Because if you use terror, and all soldiers/armies/paramilitaries do, then you are by definition a 'terrorist'. Some happen to be in the employ of governments.

wotzgoingon · 07-01-2018 7:18pm

Patww79 wrote: »

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The last time I checked a history book. The whole of Ireland was Ireland. We do not have a united Ireland at the minute.

FrancieBrady · 07-01-2018 7:19pm

Patww79 wrote: »

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You are entitled to that view, once you re-write the constitution. Until you manage that you can be accused of being unpatriotic.

It is the firm will of the Irish Nation, in harmony and friendship, to unite all the people who share the territory of the island of Ireland, in all the diversity of their identities and traditions, recognising that a united Ireland shall be brought about only by peaceful means with the consent of a majority of the people, democratically expressed, in both jurisdictions in the island.

OldMrBrennan83 · 07-01-2018 7:20pm

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OldMrBrennan83 · 07-01-2018 7:21pm

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markodaly · 07-01-2018 7:22pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well you know what to do about that? Don't make statements you cannot defend.

Terrorist is a redundant word here. Because if you use terror, and all soldiers/armies/paramilitaries do, then you are by definition a 'terrorist'. Some happen to be in the employ of governments.

What statement is this then? I stated correctly that the nationalist population in the north lobbied for the British Army to be deployed onto the streets. Something you accept.

You want to go off an the usual tangent about labelling the BA terrorists as a way to detract away from the topic itself, UI and patriotism.

So maybe stick with the topic an save your anti British rants to the Poppy thread.

wotzgoingon · 07-01-2018 7:22pm

Patww79 wrote: »

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What drugs are you on? Something with poppy seed anyway.

OldMrBrennan83 · 07-01-2018 7:24pm

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FrancieBrady · 07-01-2018 7:25pm

markodaly wrote: »

What statement is this then? I stated correctly that the nationalist population in the north lobbied for the British Army to be deployed onto the streets. Something you accept.

You want to go off an the usual tangent about labelling the BA terrorists as a way to detract away from the topic itself, UI and patriotism.

So maybe stick with the topic an save your anti British rants to the Poppy thread.

You made the statement implying that because they were welcomed by besieged people, abandoned to their fate by Dublin and local 'security forces' that nationalists therefore didn't view them as 'terrorists'.

And I didn't start the conversation about 'terrorists'. Maybe take it up with those that did.

wotzgoingon · 07-01-2018 7:27pm

Patww79 wrote: »

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What facts, you are saying we have a united Ireland at the minute and that the country was formed a united Ireland. And then you say you are speaking facts.

The whole Ireland is Ireland and always was and always should be.

FrancieBrady · 07-01-2018 7:27pm

Patww79 wrote: »

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'Patriotic' would mean respecting the constitution of your country...no?

Which 'Irish' are you talking about and please post the data that shows your case?

Which political parties will oppose a UI in the south do you think?

markodaly · 07-01-2018 7:31pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You made the statement implying that because they were welcomed by besieged people, abandoned to their fate by Dublin and local 'security forces' that nationalists therefore didn't view them as 'terrorists'.

And I didn't start the conversation about 'terrorists'. Maybe take it up with those that did.

That is odd, the nationalist population wanted the BA deployed on the street but also view them as terrorists. Your a hoot.

Maybe lets revert back to the topic on hand.

Not wanting a UI can indeed be viewed as being patriotic, as the constitution mentions the free will of the people in this matter. i.e. it is up to each person to form their only view on the matter.

Patriotism doesn't come into it but is pushed by flag waving numpties.

tomwaterford · 07-01-2018 7:33pm

markodaly wrote: »

That is odd, the nationalist population wanted the BA deployed on the street but also view them as terrorists. Your a hoot.
.

Tbf they did machine gun nationlists for looking for civil rights??

Nonetheless all this has zero to do with a united Ireland referendum

OldMrBrennan83 · 07-01-2018 7:33pm

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markodaly · 07-01-2018 7:35pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'Patriotic' would mean respecting the constitution of your country...no?

What a stupid thing to say.

Was 95% of the people unpatriotic when they voted on the Good Friday agreement to give up the territorial claim on the North? Do you view a constitution as set in stone that cannot and should not be changed?

tomwaterford · 07-01-2018 7:36pm

markodaly wrote: »

What a stupid thing to say.

Was 95% of the people unpatriotic when they voted on the Good Friday agreement to give up the territorial claim on the North? Do you view a constitution as set in stone that cannot and should not be changed?

Those 95% voted that Ireland aspires to a united Ireland too?

Skylinehead · 07-01-2018 7:38pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'Patriotic' would mean respecting the constitution of your country...no?

Once again:

Skylinehead wrote: »

My point is taking the constitution as a barometer for "patriotism" is a pretty silly thing, it means different things to different people. You can have pride in your country without having to refer to a document.

To take another example, would you call an American that doesn't support their insane gun policy (as catered for by the 2nd amendment) to be unpatriotic?

FrancieBrady · 07-01-2018 7:39pm

markodaly wrote: »

That is odd, the nationalist population wanted the BA deployed on the street but also view them as terrorists. Your a hoot.

Maybe lets revert back to the topic on hand.

Not wanting a UI can indeed be viewed as being patriotic, as the constitution mentions the free will of the people in this matter. i.e. it is up to each person to form their only view on the matter.

Patriotism doesn't come into it but is pushed by flag waving numpties.

Maybe when they shot dead 14 unarmed people they began to change their minds??? I am just guessing there. :rolleyes:

I will post the clause again for you:

It is the firm will of the Irish Nation, in harmony and friendship, to unite all the people who share the territory of the island of Ireland, in all the diversity of their identities and traditions, recognising that a united Ireland shall be brought about only by peaceful means with the consent of a majority of the people, democratically expressed, in both jurisdictions in the island.

It is anti the constitution not to share in the 'will'.

You can of course decide by free will, that now is not the time, but to be against a UI at any time, is clearly to be against the constitution which is unpatriotic all day long.

markodaly · 07-01-2018 7:41pm

tomwaterford wrote: »

Those 95% voted that Ireland aspires to a united Ireland too?

It seems Frankie views that changing a constitution is fundamentally unpatriotic. So wanting more liberal laws like divorce, gay marriage is being unpatriotic as they had to come about from changing the constitution.

Repealing the 8th is also unpatriotic therefore.

wotzgoingon · 07-01-2018 7:42pm

Patww79 wrote: »

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I said it already in this thread a few posts back but I really do believe you need counseling for those drugs you are taking.

Ireland is 32 counties always was and should always be. Do you follow GAA? The all Ireland championship is with all 32 counties on this island of Ireland.

Get some counseling for those drugs anyway because you really need it.

markodaly · 07-01-2018 7:44pm

wotzgoingon wrote: »

I said it already in this thread a few posts back but I really do believe you need counseling for those drugs you are taking.

Ireland is 32 counties always was and should always be. Do you follow GAA? The all Ireland championship is with all 32 counties on this island of Ireland.

Get some counseling for those drugs anyway because you really need it.

Nope, when was Ireland united under an Irish ruler or kingdom. The answer is never.

I said this a while back but I will say it again. Ireland was NEVER united under Irish rule.

FrancieBrady · 07-01-2018 7:45pm

markodaly wrote: »

It seems Frankie views that changing a constitution is fundamentally unpatriotic. So wanting more liberal laws like divorce, gay marriage is being unpatriotic as they had to come about from changing the constitution.

Repealing the 8th is also unpatriotic therefore.

No, changing the constitution is the correct thing to do if you oppose a clause in it.

Where are all these people who oppose 'the will to unite the Island of Ireland'.

Is there a campaign to change the constitution I am unaware of? Is Leo suddenly challenging this silent majority of opposition, that you all have alluded to?

OldMrBrennan83 · 07-01-2018 7:45pm

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wotzgoingon · 07-01-2018 7:46pm

markodaly wrote: »

Nope, when was Ireland united under an Irish ruler or kingdom. The answer is never.

I said this a while back but I will say it again. Ireland was NEVER united under Irish rule.

Well I'm no expert on history but I remember one high king of Ireland called Brian Boru.

OldMrBrennan83 · 07-01-2018 7:46pm

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tomwaterford · 07-01-2018 7:47pm

markodaly wrote: »

Nope, when was Ireland united under an Irish ruler or kingdom. The answer is never.

I said this a while back but I will say it again. Ireland was NEVER united under Irish rule.

Ireland was united in 1922....Until the north formally broke away

markodaly · 07-01-2018 7:50pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No, changing the constitution is the correct thing to do if you oppose a clause in it.

Where are all these people who oppose 'the will to unite the Island of Ireland'.

Is there a campaign to change the constitution I am unaware of? Is Leo suddenly challenging this silent majority of opposition, that you all have alluded to?

Changing your tune, not surprising.

The constitution mentions that it is up to the people, i.e. the people, us, have to give their consent to a UI. They key word, consent.

Patriotism has nothing to do with it. Its a nonsense stupid argument. Its a Trump argument.

markodaly · 07-01-2018 7:51pm

tomwaterford wrote: »

Ireland was united in 1922....Until the north formally broke away

Under Irish rule? Read my post

FrancieBrady · 07-01-2018 7:53pm

markodaly wrote: »

Changing your tune, not surprising.

The constitution mentions that it is up to the people, i.e. the people, us, have to give their consent to a UI. They key word, consent.

Patriotism has nothing to do with it. Its a nonsense stupid argument. Its a Trump argument.

What are you if you 'oppose' the constitution of your country?

markodaly · 07-01-2018 7:53pm

wotzgoingon wrote: »

Well I'm no expert on history but I remember one high king of Ireland called Brian Boru.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_King_of_Ireland

The concept of national kingship is first articulated in the 7th century, but only became a political reality in the Viking Age, and even then not a consistent one.[2][3][4] While the High Kings' degree of control varied, Ireland was never ruled by them as a politically unified state, as the High King was conceived of as an overlord exercising suzerainty over, and receiving tribute from, the independent kingdoms beneath him

Does opposing a United Ireland automatically make you unpatriotic?

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