Does opposing a United Ireland automatically make you unpatriotic?

Discodog

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Only Unionists use the NHS?. The NHS is part of your identity????

My identity ?

Lots of "republicans" wouldn't vote to join the Republic because of losing free healthcare.

As for identity, the Unionists say they are British. It's up to you to persuade them to become Irish.

FrancieBrady

Discodog wrote: »

My identity ?

Lots of "republicans" wouldn't vote to join the Republic because of losing free healthcare

Losing free healthcare has nothing to do with identity.

Discodog

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Losing free healthcare has nothing to do with identity.

Actually it's embedded in British identity. That's why it featured in the Olympic opening.

Nettle Soup

I dont want a United Ireland. Way too much 'baggage' up there still. Maybe in 2 or 3 generations but we would need to look at the impacts.
SF cannot be trusted...ever. And Unionists are just prehistoric.

FrancieBrady

Discodog wrote: »

Actually it's embedded in British identity. That's why it featured in the Olympic opening.

So were the Spice Girls ffs. :rolleyes:

Discodog

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So were the Spice Girls ffs. :rolleyes:

If SF share your lack of understanding of the British & your likely unwillingness to learn & understand, then a united Ireland will never happen.

The British would love to be rid of the North. Most British people support a united Ireland but you have to win over the Unionists. The North has to be totally at peace with itself before it can join the Republic.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So the people living here were a collection of individuals? Righty ho, we'll leave it there.

More empty words, no evidence.

So, to reiterate, Ireland was never united under Irish rule not was it a homogenous country.

_Kaiser_

Boulevardier wrote: »

I strongly support Irish unification, but in way that is likely to have me branded in some quarters as not only unpatriotic, but also treasonable.

I believe the best way to unite Ireland would be to ditch republicanism and to re-constitute Ireland as a self-governing dominion within the Commonwealth.

That way, the British identity of the unionist community would be not only recognised, but incorporated in the new Ireland. And we would be united and independent.

However the nationalist majority won't have it. They demand the full panoply of tribal republicanism, however long it puts off unity. They will eventually get their way by out-breeding the Protestants, which for them is unity enough.

There's a lot of merit to this - after all, when it comes down to it most of our political and governing systems are copies/holdovers from when the English were in charge, with tweaks made to make them "Irish" (often in such a way as to botch the original intent). Culturally and historically we have a lot more in common with the UK than we do with the US or Europe.

Now admittedly we haven't been at this "Independence" stuff all that long, but we have a LONG way to go yet IMO and rather than trying to take on the (many!) problems of the North, maybe we should get our own house in order first, eg:

- We have a political class who are only interested in what they can get, often over a lifetime, for themselves, their relatives and their hangers-on. As such we stumble from crisis to scandal, bust to boom, and the notion of long-term thinking or the greater good very rarely features.

- We have an electorate which enables this with a me fein attitude themselves and which quietly admits that they'd do the same if they had the neck/balls/opportunity.

- We have a massive inferiority complex as a country where we strive for the approval and validation of others (everyone loves the Irish, first in the world for smoking bans etc). It probably also explains why we soak up the worst trends from the UK/US (social) media like a sponge too.

- We still have not just a problem with "de Brits" but tribal rivalry among ourselves (perpetuated by organisations like the GAA). Hence why so much of the debate in this country involves an "Us vs Them" mantra - the rest of the country vs the Dubs, the Public vs Private sector, the Employed vs Unemployed, Union vs non-Union etc etc.

- We absolutely refuse to acknowledge the above problems and the limitations and restrictions it places on our growth as a country and people. Anyone who says "er.. hang on a minute!" is to be attacked, ignored or have their arguments deflected with whataboutery.

I think that rather than clinging to a romantic view of Republicanism and a United Ireland, there certainly is scope for a debate on where this country wants to go in the next 50-100 years, and what is the BEST (if not necessarily the most popular) way to achieve those goals and if that involved a new partnership (which is NOT the same as being a colony) with our UK neighbours them absolutely we should at least consider it. Who knows.. a national debate could throw up some far better ideas - certainly better (IMO) than blindly waiting for our new "masters" in the EU to decide our future for us.

But, unfortunately I don't think we're quite there yet as a nation.

david75

If we were to somehow have a United ireland we would then be left with a unionist population whose representatives would have made sure they have a ‘special status’ in the new constitution and they’d end up vetoing the **** out of absolutely everything they can just like they do now. They have no forward vision as it is and seem hellbent on holding London over a barrel for payouts and blackmailing them to get them.

Do we really want that here? Is that worth dealing with for the rest of time? I don’t think it is.

david75

Speaking of. They’d come in as a province.
Could you see our government restructuring so each province has its own local government and TDs?