Property Market 2018

Bluefoam

sightband wrote: »

Bluefoam wrote: »

There were probably just pissed of that another bidder was slowing down the sale by bidding in (what they may consider) ridiculously low increments. They bought the property at a price that they considered value and obviously made a clear statement that they would clean the floor with your bid...

And that statement cost them about €18k

Maybe they saw the value in the move... They don't know how much you have to spend... They may also have been speculating on how much the vendor was willing to take for the property and may have had information to support their offer. Anyway, they were able to afford the property and you weren't. I recently made offers on two separate properties at the asking price and was the only bidder. I was informed that the vendors would be offended by my paultry offers and that they would not be put forward to the sellers.

sightband

Bluefoam wrote: »

Maybe they saw the value in the move...

Or maybe they are just f*cking thick.

Bluefoam wrote: »

I recently made offers on two separate properties at the asking price and was the only bidder. I was informed that the vendors would be offended by my paultry offers and that they would not be put forward to the sellers.

And it is at this point that you responded by saying they would be offended by your paltry offer how when it is their asking price...and the agent said what?

Bluefoam

I don't really care what silly games they are playing or how much money they want.... I did end up making an offer that I was happy with, on a property I like very much, it is within my capacity to repay... The others I bid on no longer play on my conscience... Don't be upset that someone outbid you, move forward and find the house for you.

alwald

Bluefoam wrote: »

When the market starts to show real signs of slowing, the central bank will alter the rules to allow easier access to funds.

Highly unlikely as this is an ECB rule and it was implemented for a reason, which is to avoid the collapse of banks due to some crazy lending.

Bluefoam

alwald wrote: »

Bluefoam wrote: »

When the market starts to show real signs of slowing, the central bank will alter the rules to allow easier access to funds.

Highly unlikely as this is an ECB rule and it was implemented for a reason, which is to avoid the collapse of banks due to some crazy lending.

Oh, I didn't realise it was implemented across Europe, I thought the rules here only applied to the Irish market...

sightband

Bluefoam wrote: »

I don't really care what silly games they are playing or how much money they want....

Nor should you, but the indignation of a realtor saying that you and not responding to it speaks volumes about you and the current market.

Bluefoam wrote: »

I did end up making an offer that I was happy with, on a property I like very much, it is within my capacity to repay... The others I bid on no longer play on my conscience... Don't be upset that someone outbid you, move forward and find the house for you.

You’ve made several assumptions, the biggest being we couldn’t afford to go higher. We are on our third property, any property we’ve ever viewed and had an interest in bidding on we’ve always decided beforehand what our maximum would be...we had done our research on the road and area and decided 500k would be the max. Doesn’t matter what way bidding goes, anyone who doesn’t employ this strategy can get into very messy situations. The other is quite hard but when you view into the hundred mark of viewings it gets easier not to become anyway emotionally attached to the property until those keys are in your hand. Thanks for caring tho, you sound like you have your finger on the pulse

matsy1

Banks generally don't give out many mortgages during recessions. The reason house prices fall is because people can't sell or buy. For the people hoping the arse falls out of the market. It's not a nice situation for anyone.

The_Conductor

KevinCavan wrote: »

I think that the houses can’t keep rising beyond another 3 years. The madness will eventually subside when prices reach certain levels

We don't have a national property market anymore- we have a Dublin market- and then a non-Dublin market- with a distinct urban and rural split in the non-Dublin market. These are further differentiated or stratified into price categories. Certain price categories are continuing to grow strongly, notably in Dublin properties <400k, and elsewhere <300k. Once you go over 400k- prices have plateau'ed- until you reach 650k or so in a Dublin context- and over 650k- prices are in freefall. Even Shane Ross- only got 25% of his asking price for his family home in Wicklow- he had to discount the asking by fully 75% to shift it.

At the moment- the Central Bank rules- are driving the lower tiers of the property market- but stiffling the upper tiers.

I have no idea what the story is with a 3 bed in Clonsilla selling for EUR2m- which is referred to a few posts back- perhaps someone could post a link to it- and we might see what the justification was.

Saying prices aren't going to fall for 3 years- or indeed any time frame- is a waste of time- in general, prices in Dublin have slowed to a 3.5-4.5% growth rate- the bulk of any increases in prices- are ironically in rural locations. This run-away inflation in rural property prices- cannot continue- esp. in the context that Wexford, Tipperary, Limerick and Galway- are being sold as commutable to Dublin to prospective purchasers- which is completely insane. Hell- Navan is insane- but at least its a little more understandable.

sunnyday1234

Bluefoam wrote: »

Oh, I didn't realise it was implemented across Europe, I thought the rules here only applied to the Irish market...

The rules are from the Irish central bank , nothing to do with ECB

Bluefoam

sunnyday1234 wrote: »

Bluefoam wrote: »

Oh, I didn't realise it was implemented across Europe, I thought the rules here only applied to the Irish market...

The rules are from the Irish central bank , nothing to do with ECB

I know

Bluefoam

sightband wrote: »

Bluefoam wrote: »

I don't really care what silly games they are playing or how much money they want....

Nor should you, but the indignation of a realtor saying that you and not responding to it speaks volumes about you and the current market.

Bluefoam wrote: »

I did end up making an offer that I was happy with, on a property I like very much, it is within my capacity to repay... The others I bid on no longer play on my conscience... Don't be upset that someone outbid you, move forward and find the house for you.

You’ve made several assumptions, the biggest being we couldn’t afford to go higher. We are on our third property, any property we’ve ever viewed and had an interest in bidding on we’ve always decided beforehand what our maximum would be...we had done our research on the road and area and decided 500k would be the max. Doesn’t matter what way bidding goes, anyone who doesn’t employ this strategy can get into very messy situations. The other is quite hard but when you view into the hundred mark of viewings it gets easier not to become anyway emotionally attached to the property until those keys are in your hand. Thanks for caring tho, you sound like you have your finger on the pulse

you are the one making assumptions... You have no idea how I reacted to estate agents, dodgy and unclear situations... All of which I have experienced as a home buyer. I have also purchased three houses and am in the process of purchasing my fourth... I do have a very clear plan when bidding, and have very well worked out criteria. I don't however feel bitter when I don't get a property at the price I want... It's an open market and there's often someone who either wants, or can afford a property more than you.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Bluefoam wrote: »

you are the one making assumptions... You have no idea how I reacted to estate agents, dodgy and unclear situations... All of which I have experienced as a home buyer. I have also purchased three houses and am in the process of purchasing my fourth... I do have a very clear plan when bidding, and have very well worked out criteria. I don't however feel bitter when I don't get a property at the price I want... It's an open market and there's often someone who either wants, or can afford a property more than you.

Just out of interest are you trading up every time or are you buying a few for renting etc? 4 house purchases seems like a lot.

Bluefoam

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Bluefoam wrote: »

you are the one making assumptions... You have no idea how I reacted to estate agents, dodgy and unclear situations... All of which I have experienced as a home buyer. I have also purchased three houses and am in the process of purchasing my fourth... I do have a very clear plan when bidding, and have very well worked out criteria. I don't however feel bitter when I don't get a property at the price I want... It's an open market and there's often someone who either wants, or can afford a property more than you.

Just out of interest are you trading up every time or are you buying a few for renting etc? 4 house purchases seems like a lot.

My first home was an apartment, trade up to a 3 bed semi, lost that during the recession and incurred a massive debt and no equity, next was a family holiday home and now that I am back on my feet, having fixed my financial situation, I am purchasing a home to live in...

No doubt someone here will try to analyse my personal situation, probably making some wildly inaccurate assumptions, make some accusations or silly comments... But I'm just a normal person in need of a home, which I am buying to live in. I work hard for a living and a home...

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Bluefoam wrote: »

My first home was an apartment, trade up to a 3 bed semi, lost that during the recession and incurred a massive debt and no equity, next was a family holiday home and now that I am back on my feet, having fixed my financial situation, I am purchasing a home to live in...

No doubt someone here will try to analyse my personal situation, probably making some wildly inaccurate assumptions, make some accusations or silly comments... But I'm just a normal person in need of a home, which I am buying to live in. I work hard for a living and a home...

Fair play sounds like a rocky road. Good on you for getting back on your feet.

Shedite27

sightband wrote: »

Low and behold this came to fruition in my case...house asking was 465k, came down to the wire at 495k which was our bid and only us and another bidder and then they come back with a 520k counter bid. We were gone at anything over 500k. Agent showed me the log book as I requested and was left itching my head telling them they could inform the other person they just blew the guts of 18k on nothing. yes they got the house but it is this type of stupidity that has our market in such turmoil. Too many idiots with money, or banks money.

They got the house at a price they were willing to pay.

They weren't to know you were gone at 500k, if they'd gone to 500 they risked getting another bidder involved. Their tactic worked

KevinCavan

The_Conductor wrote: »

We don't have a national property market anymore- we have a Dublin market- and then a non-Dublin market- with a distinct urban and rural split in the non-Dublin market. These are further differentiated or stratified into price categories. Certain price categories are continuing to grow strongly, notably in Dublin properties <400k, and elsewhere <300k. Once you go over 400k- prices have plateau'ed- until you reach 650k or so in a Dublin context- and over 650k- prices are in freefall. Even Shane Ross- only got 25% of his asking price for his family home in Wicklow- he had to discount the asking by fully 75% to shift it.

At the moment- the Central Bank rules- are driving the lower tiers of the property market- but stiffling the upper tiers.

I have no idea what the story is with a 3 bed in Clonsilla selling for EUR2m- which is referred to a few posts back- perhaps someone could post a link to it- and we might see what the justification was.

Saying prices aren't going to fall for 3 years- or indeed any time frame- is a waste of time- in general, prices in Dublin have slowed to a 3.5-4.5% growth rate- the bulk of any increases in prices- are ironically in rural locations. This run-away inflation in rural property prices- cannot continue- esp. in the context that Wexford, Tipperary, Limerick and Galway- are being sold as commutable to Dublin to prospective purchasers- which is completely insane. Hell- Navan is insane- but at least its a little more understandable.

The three bed in Clonsilla going up to €2,000,000, was me trying to highlight how certain boardsies would have you believe that there can never be a property crash in Ireland again.

matsy1

KevinCavan wrote: »

I think that the houses can’t keep rising beyond another 3 years. The madness will eventually subside when prices reach certain levels

Subside? Explain?

Cuddlesworth

matsy1 wrote: »

Subside? Explain?

We have a 40 year history of massive rises and drops.

If we went into prices that kept parity with inflation, it would be unusual.

So the betting man would say that if prices drop for any reason, they will drop hard and fast.

Cuddlesworth

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

..............

So the betting man would say that if prices drop for any reason, they will drop hard and fast.

But the betting man also needs to predict when the prices will drop and to do that they'd need to think of the reason.

No doubt if they drop they might drop hard and fast as opposed to slowly, if they drop.

Demand doesn't seem to be dropping, supply might increase over the next few years.

Regarding the 40 year history............. past performance is no .....etc etc etc etc

tobsey

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

We have a 40 year history of massive rises and drops.

If we went into prices that kept parity with inflation, it would be unusual.

So the betting man would say that if prices drop for any reason, they will drop hard and fast.

We have only one instance of massive rises and drops. 2000-2013. The economy has gone through boom and bust cycles but property prices were never affected as much as they were during the tiger and subsequent crash. The recession in the 80s didn’t affect property prices near as much as 2008.

Mad_maxx

tobsey wrote: »

We have only one instance of massive rises and drops. 2000-2013. The economy has gone through boom and bust cycles but property prices were never affected as much as they were during the tiger and subsequent crash. The recession in the 80s didn’t affect property prices near as much as 2008.

The property boom began in 1997, it really revved up in the period 2003 to late 2006.the bottom in Dublin was spring 2012.

You are correct that we have only had one bubble so far

matsy1

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

We have a 40 year history of massive rises and drops.

If we went into prices that kept parity with inflation, it would be unusual.

So the betting man would say that if prices drop for any reason, they will drop hard and fast.

It seems it's not the betting man, it's the man hoping for a recession.

House prices will fall because the average wage doesn't match the average house, I can't figure out how it's possible they'll fall hard. Do you think people will just sell their homes for peanuts just because?

The only hope is maybe they'll fall by aroumd 10 per cent, very slowly, stabilise then start raising by 2 per cent year by year.

KevinCavan

matsy1 wrote: »

It seems it's not the betting man, it's the man hoping for a recession.

House prices will fall because the average wage doesn't match the average house, I can't figure out how it's possible they'll fall hard. Do you think people will just sell their homes for peanuts just because?

The only hope is maybe they'll fall by aroumd 10 per cent, very slowly, stabilise then start raising by 2 per cent year by year.

One notable problem is say a couple on a combined €100,000 per year salary, can’t borrow more than say €370,000. €100,000 is a good combined salary of two average professionals. If the average 3 bed semi becomes €450,000 in Dublin, who is going to buy them?

Cyrus

KevinCavan wrote: »

One notable problem is say a couple on a combined €100,000 per year salary, can’t borrow more than say €370,000. €100,000 is a good combined salary of two average professionals. If the average 3 bed semi becomes €450,000 in Dublin, who is going to buy them?

They need a 90k deposit so they can borrow enough , what’s the issue ?

mkdon

this is pointless speculation

noone has a clue ...it could go up another 10% or down....

its like gambling almost nobody knows

engiweirdo

Dublin prices will keep rising indefinitely. The stupid decisions involved in the eternal threadmill of basing ALL employment in the Dublin area without even half arsed considerations toward increasing housing capacity will make "de lads" rich again.

Bob24

engiweirdo wrote: »

Dublin prices will keep rising indefinitely. The stupid decisions involved in the eternal threadmill of basing ALL employment in the Dublin area without even half arsed considerations toward increasing housing capacity will make "de lads" rich again.

There are over 30000 jobs in Cork directly provided by multinational companies. It is an unusually high figure for a city of that size and very respectable for the second city of a country the size of ours.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not in favour of concentrating everything in Dublin, but while
promoting employment all accross the country can we please stop pretending there is no employment outside the capital?

RayCun

It's not like there is some guy sitting in an office deciding where to create jobs and picking Dublin every time. Companies want to be where the workforce is.

mkdon

agreed look at Northern Trust for instance... they have moved everything from Dublin to Limerick.. many MNCs have moved and will continue to move away from Dublin....

BNY in Kilkenny, Wexford .

State street moving its operations to Drogeda

many companies moving out of Dublin not one way traffic

engiweirdo

Bob24 wrote: »

engiweirdo wrote: »

Dublin prices will keep rising indefinitely. The stupid decisions involved in the eternal threadmill of basing ALL employment in the Dublin area without even half arsed considerations toward increasing housing capacity will make "de lads" rich again.

There are over 30000 jobs in Cork directly provided by multinational companies. It is an unusually high figure for a city of that size and very respectable for the second city of a country the size of ours.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not in favour of concentrating everything in Dublin, but while
promoting employment all accross the country can we please stop pretending there is no employment outside the capital?

Sure Cark is hardly a fair measure of the rest of the country. And prices are just as bad. The rest of the country is fcuked. 15% unemployment in Waterford (ignore the schemes/Turas Nua figure massages) while FG ****e away about full employment. Ireland is as fcuked as ever for a lot of people and Dublin will be fcuked by trying to squeeze everything and everybody into it.