Munster V Leinster Build up Thread

pickarooney

Maybe it's just me but this is completely incoherent. What does selecting a XV, half of whom are not available, many of whom are debatable (a couple of months ago, J McGrath was unanimously first choice, it's further back still since Heaslip picked up a ball, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Who really knows our first choice Hooker? Maybe Lowe is the best winger on Leinster's books. How will we ever find out? Is Nacewa still even a winger?) illustrate about selection policy or player management?

Squidgy Black

pickarooney wrote: »

Maybe it's just me but this is completely incoherent. What does selecting a XV, half of whom are not available, many of whom are debatable (a couple of months ago, J McGrath was unanimously first choice, it's further back still since Heaslip picked up a ball, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Who really knows our first choice Hooker? Maybe Lowe is the best winger on Leinster's books. How will we ever find out? Is Nacewa still even a winger?) illustrate about selection policy or player management?

It's a pointless argument tbh and there seems to be a lot of faux-outrage around it.

We've seen a lot weaker teams been sent down for the interpros. None of the calls for selection are really questionable aside from maybe Ringrose.

irishbucsfan

pickarooney wrote: »

Maybe it's just me but this is completely incoherent. What does selecting a XV, half of whom are not available, many of whom are debatable (a couple of months ago, J McGrath was unanimously first choice, it's further back still since Heaslip picked up a ball, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Who really knows our first choice Hooker? Maybe Lowe is the best winger on Leinster's books. How will we ever find out? Is Nacewa still even a winger?) illustrate about selection policy or player management?

This is like the 4th time I’ve said this, but the complaints are absolutely not about selection policy or player management.

pickarooney

irishbucsfan wrote: »

This is like the 4th time I’ve said this, but the complaints are absolutely not about selection policy or player management.

Complaints about match scheduling implicitly involves both of the above.

Otherwise you're just complaining about having matches around Christmas in front of packed houses.

irishbucsfan

pickarooney wrote: »

Complaints about match scheduling implicitly involves both of the above.

Otherwise you're just complaining about having matches around Christmas in front of packed houses.

The selection is dictated by the schedule.

The Thomond game did not used to be played in December. Now that it is, it’s less meaningful. That’s the complaint.

Everyone talks about ticket sales as if they’re the absolute barometer!

pickarooney

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The selection is dictated by the schedule.

The Thomond game did not used to be played in December. Now that it is, it’s less meaningful. That’s the complaint.

Everyone talks about ticket sales as if they’re the absolute barometer!

Hardly everyone. Has it been mentioned on this thread before? I reckon it'll be a cracking match.

thomond2006

pickarooney wrote: »

Hardly everyone. Has it been mentioned on this thread before? I reckon it'll be a cracking match.

It's been mentioned on the forum numerous times. This fixture is not as fun as it was.

irishbucsfan

pickarooney wrote: »

Hardly everyone. Has it been mentioned on this thread before? I reckon it'll be a cracking match.

Ah that’s true but I’ve been having the same discussion on twitter so likely just me getting mixed up.

I’m looking forward to it, but not in the same way I was 5 years ago, when it would’ve been my favourite game of the season. I wouldn’t make the trip now.

Former Former

The fundamental thing here is a belief that Munster v Leinster is more important than other interpros. I don't think IRFU would be well served by perpetuating that idea.

irishbucsfan

Former Former wrote: »

The fundamental thing here is a belief that Munster v Leinster is more important than other interpros. I don't think IRFU would be well served by perpetuating that idea.

As I explained before, no it is not

thomond2006

I'd be happy to see the regular season reduced to 19 games. At least the 4 interpro rounds might become more meaningful. The annual Province A 1sts vs Province B 2nds around Christmas/NYD is terrible.

Former Former

irishbucsfan wrote: »

As I explained before, no it is not

Is your complaint not that this fixture moved from its previous position before European QFs?

irishbucsfan

Former Former wrote: »

Is your complaint not that this fixture moved from its previous position before European QFs?

Yes, but nowhere did I say any interpro shouldn't be treated as an equally serious fixture

Former Former

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yes, but nowhere did I say any interpro shouldn't be treated as an equally serious fixture

You didn't say it but it's the logical conclusion of what you are saying.

Leinster v Munster already gets the prime slot before the first round of Europe. The return traditionally had the other desirable slot of right before the QFs. That's an explicit statement from IRFU that this tie was the big one and the other interpros, meh.

So now that's no longer the case but now we're saying that THIS game shouldn't be on Stephen's Day and we shouldn't be fielding a weakened team for THIS game.

We all know there can only be interpros on Stephen's Day and we all know players have to rotate. We would just rather have Connacht thanks.

Of course people are saying it's more important. They just haven't realised they're saying it.

irishbucsfan

Former Former wrote: »

You didn't say it but it's the logical conclusion of what you are saying.

Leinster v Munster already gets the prime slot before the first round of Europe. The return traditionally had the other desirable slot of right before the QFs. That's an explicit statement from IRFU that this tie was the big one and the other interpros, meh.

So now that's no longer the case but now we're saying that THIS game shouldn't be on Stephen's Day and we shouldn't be fielding a weakened team for THIS game.

We all know there can only be interpros on Stephen's Day and we all know players have to rotate. We would just rather have Connacht thanks.

Of course people are saying it's more important. They just haven't realised they're saying it.

None of this is the conclusion of what I said. You're putting far too much faith in your own ability to assume what people are saying without reading it. I already posted the conclusion but you've ignored it.

Former Former

irishbucsfan wrote: »

None of this is the conclusion of what I said. You're putting far too much faith in your own ability to assume what people are saying without reading it. I already posted the conclusion but you've ignored it.

Your conclusion is that the fixture is devalued? I agree. I just think that's a good thing, you don't.

So what would you change?

irishbucsfan

Former Former wrote: »

Your conclusion is that the fixture is devalued? I agree. I just think that's a good thing, you don't.

So what would you change?

All we need is 6 weeks for interpro fixtures. We already have 3 clear ones, which is the week before European pool games. Then there's the final week of the season which is usually an interpro already. So we just need to find 2 weeks, which is really not difficult. We could put a 2nd interpro in September/October and put the other spare interpro in April, or keep the Leinster/Ulster new years' fixture if they'd prefer (I've no problem with keeping that one devalued, given its traditional).

Playing it on Stephens' day is not the answer.

Former Former

irishbucsfan wrote: »

All we need is 6 weeks for interpro fixtures. We already have 3 clear ones, which is the week before European pool games. Then there's the final week of the season which is usually an interpro already. So we just need to find 2 weeks, which is really not difficult. We could put a 2nd interpro in September/October and put the other spare interpro in April, or keep the Leinster/Ulster new years' fixture if they'd prefer (I've no problem with keeping that one devalued, given its traditional).

Playing it on Stephens' day is not the answer.

Play NO game on Stephens Day (or the 27th)?? Tell me I've got that wrong.

irishbucsfan

Former Former wrote: »

Play NO game on Stephens Day (or the 27th)?? Tell me I've got that wrong.

Yes, 3 fixtures on that day in the league this year, we can easily survive moving it.

RichieRich89

molloyjh wrote: »

Leinsters current first choice XV:

Healy Cronin Furlong
Fardy Toner
Ruddock Heaslip SOB

McGrath Sexton
Henshaw Ringrose
Nacewa Kearney WhoTheFudgeKnows

Of that team only 2 are starting on Tuesday. Therefore it is a second string side. That others aren’t available or are being rested doesn’t really matter, it’s still a less than full strength Leinster side.

It is a good Leinster side nonetheless and should be more competitive than last year. I don’t expect a win, but a LBP would do just fine.

Would it not be better to ask what Leinster's best available team would be? Assuming Sexton and O'Brien are injured, I'd say it's:

1. McGrath
2. Cronin
3. Furlong
4. Ryan
5. Toner
6. Leavy
7. van der Flier
8. Conan
9. McGrath
10. Byrne
11. Lowe
12. Henshaw
13. Ringrose
14. Larmour/Nacewa/Daly/McFadden/Byrne
15. Kearney

16. Tracy
17. Byrne
18. Bent
19. Fardy
20. Murphy
21. Gibson-Park (McCarthy if not allowed pick him, Fardy and Lowe)
22. Marsh/Reid
23. O'Loughlin or one of the right wingers listed above

Others probably would have Fardy ahead of Ryan.

For me, Ringrose and Luke McGrath are the biggest absentees. Will Gibson-Park bring enough control?

Don Kiddick

If that was truly a 2nd choice Leinster side, Fardy would be playing... Joe could quite easily pick that entire pack for the 6n....could be a bad day at the office for POM and Stander ...could end up wishing for the south of France yet.

Former Former

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yes, 3 fixtures on that day in the league this year, we can easily survive moving it.

There are 3 fixtures on the 26th because the remainder were on the 23rd.

Moving Munster v Leinster to the 23rd or the 27th wouldn't have solved anything. The same problems are still there.

irishbucsfan

Former Former wrote: »

There are 3 fixtures on the 26th because the remainder were on the 23rd.

Moving Munster v Leinster to the 23rd or the 27th wouldn't have solved anything. The same problems are still there.

Right. But at absolutely no point did I suggest doing that.

You're acting as if its impossible to avoid Munster/Leinster being played at Christmas when this is an entirely new thing.

Former Former

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Right. But at absolutely no point did I suggest doing that.

You're acting as if its impossible to avoid Munster/Leinster being played at Christmas when this is an entirely new thing.

You love this "but I'm not saying that" line.

Would you be willing to tell me what you would like to do? I'm clearly not getting it.

Keeping in mind there has to be a game around Christmas and it has to be an interpro, you would do...

stephen_n

Don Kiddick wrote: »

If that was truly a 2nd choice Leinster side, Fardy would be playing... Joe could quite easily pick that entire pack for the 6n....could be a bad day at the office for POM and Stander ...could end up wishing for the south of France yet.

Fardy is most definitely first choice for Leinster. Ryan may well be the future but Fardy is the present.

irishbucsfan

Former Former wrote: »

You love this "but I'm not saying that" line.

Would you be willing to tell me what you would like to do? I'm clearly not getting it.

Keeping in mind there has to be a game around Christmas and it has to be an interpro, you would do...

The game before christmas does not need to be an interpro, and never used to be. It used to go Europe -> League game -> Interpro -> Interpro -> Europe. This year it's Europe -> Interpro -> Interpro -> Interpro -> Europe. As a start we can get back to where we were.

And after we've gotten back to where we were, we should sort out the calendar to put as many interpros into uncontended slots as possible given they're generally our best domestic games, which may not involve keeping two interpros in the christmas stretch.

sydthebeat

Leinster by 2, munster to have earls sent off in the first half for a tip tackle and Murray to go off injured.
Larmour to score a hat trick and Byrne to be 100% from the tee

irishbucsfan

stephen_n wrote: »

Fardy is most definitely first choice for Leinster. Ryan may well be the future but Fardy is the present.

Fardy is on a shortlist of two for my forward of the year. And I'd probably have him ahead of Furlong. JvDF was on that list before injury.

Former Former

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The game before christmas does not need to be an interpro, and never used to be. It used to go Europe -> League game -> Interpro -> Interpro -> Europe. This year it's Europe -> Interpro -> Interpro -> Interpro -> Europe. As a start we can get back to where we were.

And after we've gotten back to where we were, we should sort out the calendar to put as many interpros into uncontended slots as possible given they're generally our best domestic games, which may not involve keeping two interpros in the christmas stretch.

There is no longer any league game between Europe and Christmas (not for a few years anyway), so your solution only works if you move Europe by a week.

If you don't have two interpros in the Christmas period, you have to find another empty weekend somewhere in the already-packed season to make up for the lost game.

I dunno. Worth it?

Burkie1203

Nigel owens has had to fly to ireland today, spending xmas with John Lacey and his family in order to ref the game on tuesday.