Burglary after Burglary-Modern Ireland

touts

It's a relatively small number of people doing this. But the criminal justice industry makes too much money from keeping them on the streets. It a lad has 100 convictions that's 100 pay cheques for the various judges barristers solicitors clerks and others who make their living in the criminal justice industry. They have no interest in putting repeat offenders in jail. Quite the opposite. If they keep them out of jail they know that's another pay cheque in a few weeks. They effectively have a financial incentive to keep the worst offenders on the street committing as many crimes as possible.

The answer is a flat annual salary for all members of the criminal justice industry. Make sure they earn no more than that flat salary unrelated to the number of cases they handle. Then change the law to remove any discretion for reduced sentences on a third or subsequent conviction. Third conviction equals maximum sentence for the crime and no possibility of early release.

That will go some way to making the criminal justice system function properly again and will help keep the small number of thugs committing these crimes off the streets.

donegaLroad

Noveight wrote: »

One of the scumbags responsible for those two violent burglaries in Limerick had 139 previous convictions at the age of 53. One hundred and thirty nine. That works out at almost 4 convictions a year every year since he turned 18. He was in and out of the courts like the rest of us visit a hairdresser, no deterrent whatsoever.

They should put a revolving door on the prisons and courts. Guys like this know how to play the system and will more than likely always live outside the law. Multiple convictions are worn as a badge of honour by career criminals.

It's a hangover of anti establishment culture from our colonial past.

Are Am Eye

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Padraig Nally's major problem was that he had a single barrel shotgun.

These things are in hundreds of Irish farmhouses, often dating back to the 1930s.
Sometimes sitting in the hotpress or hall cupboard for years between shots been taken, many of them not safe to use with modern cartridges.

If Padraig had had a double barrel and shot Frog Ward on the spot, without having to stop and re-load, it's probable that he would never have served any prison time.
I have friends farm over that direction, and they claim that thefts from farms etc stopped completely for several years after Wards killing.

I only mentioned his case to give an example of the difference between defend and attack. I was making no broader comment on it.

Nally should have said nothing to the gardai. I wonder what legal advice he had access to. The wonderful gardai were happy to hang him out to dry.

NewbridgeIR

It all comes down to sentencing (or lack of).
I wouldn't be too quick to blame our right wing governments.
Their opposite numbers on the left rarely if ever condemn burglaries or violent assaults - in fact, they only seem to get outraged by white collar crime committed by middle class professionals.

Nekarsulm

Are Am Eye wrote: »

I only mentioned his case to give an example of the difference between defend and attack. I was making no broader comment on it.

Nally should have said nothing to the gardai. I wonder what legal advice he had access to. The wonderful gardai were happy to hang him out to dry.

Nally seemed to have had woeful legal advice, or didn't listen.
He said on camera "I beat him with a stick, it had no effect on him, it was like beating a badger"

He was lucky he wasn't charged with attacking a protected species by the local Wildlife Ranger.

Our wonderful Social Services then installed Wards wife and children (5 or 6 of them, if I recall correctly) in a suite in The Longford Arms hotel, at our expense, because they had no house big enought to facilitate them.
The kids ran riot in the hotel, and they had to be 're housed before they closed the place .....

Omackeral

Are Am Eye wrote: »

Nally should have said nothing to the gardai. I wonder what legal advice he had access to. The wonderful gardai were happy to hang him out to dry.

Oh there's one or two here that would've been delighted at his conviction too. Frog Ward is no loss. End of the day, he wouldn't be brown bread if he wasn't a dirty scumbag robbing an old man in the dead of night, with scores of convictions to his name no less.

I wonder how Mr Nally got on in prison with the other inmates and the staff. Wonder if he was considered different than your average crim, I'm sure he was.

hurler32

Why are the traveller community allowed rob law abiding people and the government stand idly bye ??....

Noveight

hurler32 wrote: »

Why are the traveller community allowed rob law abiding people and the government stand idly bye ??....

It's not just Travellers. They're a troublesome bunch that the government have no interest in corralling but I'd imagine much of the rural crime is orchestrated from Dublin city.

whisky_galore

Noveight wrote: »

It's not just Travellers. They're a troublesome bunch that the government have no interest in corralling but I'd imagine much of the rural crime is orchestrated from Dublin city.

The government have little interest in doing anything unless they start robbing the homes of TDs and senators.

TallGlass

end of the road wrote: »

that wouldn't be viable as it would deprive people without means to the right to fair justice. even people with previous convictions are entitled to fair justice whether we like them or not. and chances are they would increase their criminality to pay off the fees.

In fairness at 170 convictions, you could more than likely represent yourself you'd be that familiar with it.

My main point is that the current system cannot continue, it's poor. Apart from the tax payer I feel very sorry for the Garda having to work within that system, it must be very annoying and I mean that from the perspective that, there is no reforming of the person, time and time again your telling/trying with the same person.

Maybe if you reach a certain amount of convictions you should be handled differently, certainly for the same crimes again and again, I think a threshold should be in place for sentencing, if you'd committed the same crime again, then things like suspended sentencing, concurrent sentencing and the early release are taken away from you, I would even go as far to look a a tier system, tier one first offence in that area, tier two, tier three etc.., each tier having there own sentencing structure increasing in time inside. I think that is fair.

seachto7

donegaLroad wrote: »

It's a hangover of anti establishment culture from our colonial past.

In the colonial past, they would have been hung, shot or shipped to Australia. Rightly or wrongly.

BobMc

elperello wrote: »

Maybe we need to reclassify these crimes.

Just for discussion on the basis that most of these crimes are premeditated and nobody finds themselves on someone else's premises stealing their property by accident.

1- Robbing from yards and unoccupied houses is burglary mandatory minimum sentence 2.5 years.
2- Entering an occupied house is second class aggravated burglary mandatory minimum sentence 5 years.
3- Entering an occupied house and offering violence to occupants is first class aggravated burglary mandatory minimum sentence 10 years.

There would of course be scope for longer sentences in particularly serious cases.

this is the way forward, plus it should be for each offence, so a criminal is caught for two aggravated burglaries thats 5x2 10 years, none of this concurrent nonsense.

Not your first offence, again double it, so your 5 is now 10, two burglaries thats 20 years. And absolutely no bail if you've previous under any circumstances.

worded

Quick post as I’ve to run

I’ve been in a house that was robbed by three men in the their 20s and they ran out the back door and scaled the back wall and ran accross the back fields. I watched them run away. They had cut our phone line. Was the 80s. I screamed and ran down the stairs shouting “your in for it now”, and they were, as I was full of adrenalin and very fit and armed.

No one has any idea of the fear and Adrenalin when your hoise is burgalled. There is no such thing as appropriate force I think, It’s primal and your instincts take over

No one was injured Thankfully

Anyway I did some research on what the best weapon for defence

A fire extinguisher in no 1

Can be used at a distance to startle
Can be thrown down a stairs to skull someone if they proceed up a stairs

Excellent in court defence as it’s a house hold item. I was terrified your honour....

A mag torch is another.

Bad ideas are golf clubs as it’s difficult to get a swing and can be used against you.

I know of some elderly in the west and I’ve heard that the neighbors arnt arsed keeping an eye on them

Let’s look after our elderly neighbours everyone

And also there must be some panic electronic devices that can be deployed to help alert orthers to an attack or the need for help

Also - the mist be electronic devices used to track known convicted thugs.
Civil liberties ? Either wear this location sensor - or jail.

Where there is a will there is a way

Thanks

server down

whisky_galore wrote: »

The government have little interest in doing anything unless they start robbing the homes of TDs and senators.

And it’s interesting that they don’t isn’t it? Nor the houses of the judiciary. I mean a lot of burglary is pointless. In my house you could steal a flat screen tv if you could lift it, and my laptop if it’s there. Everything else of worth is going to be impossible to take - heavy furniture, beds etc. My credit cards are on me. No money in the house.

The exceptions are older people who keep money at home more often than most and the elites who tend to have expensive paintings, jewellery etc. Never see the latter getting burgled. Is this an undeclared truce between criminals and judiciary?

server down

Also the woman who was killed in limerick? Who is actually informing on people who take money out of banks? Is it bank workers?

donegaLroad

hurler32 wrote: »

Why are the traveller community allowed rob law abiding people and the government stand idly bye ??....

Why were the bankers allowed to rob law abiding people while the government stood idly by?

server down

donegaLroad wrote: »

Why were the bankers allowed to rob law abiding people while the government stood idly by?

False dilemma.

Gunmonkey

TallGlass wrote: »

Maybe if you reach a certain amount of convictions you should be handled differently, certainly for the same crimes again and again, I think a threshold should be in place for sentencing, if you'd committed the same crime again, then things like suspended sentencing, concurrent sentencing and the early release are taken away from you, I would even go as far to look a a tier system, tier one first offence in that area, tier two, tier three etc.., each tier having there own sentencing structure increasing in time inside. I think that is fair.

This sounds similar to what i would like to see, an adaption of the American "3 strikes" policy, but for serious crimes (B&E, aggravated assault, manslaughter, rape, etc). Give em a few times at the regular prison sentences and if they keep coming back, throw the book at them!

"Youve been charged for 3 previous B&E offences and are now up here again.....you seem to be showing no attempt to stop or reform so *** ya....15 years, no reduction or good behaviour....cya!"

whisky_galore

server down wrote: »

And it’s interesting that they don’t isn’t it? Nor the houses of the judiciary. I mean a lot of burglary is pointless. In my house you could steal a flat screen tv if you could lift it, and my laptop if it’s there. Everything else of worth is going to be impossible to take - heavy furniture, beds etc. My credit cards are on me. No money in the house.

The exceptions are older people who keep money at home more often than most and the elites who tend to have expensive paintings, jewellery etc. Never see the latter getting burgled. Is this an undeclared truce between criminals and judiciary?

Expensive paintings are nice but harder to move on. The better-known paintings are probably going to attract too much heat. Jewellery is probably easier to fence. The middle classes will have expensive laptops and techy gadgets that would be attractive to them, likewise if they had a nice car that would be worth stealing but liquid cash lying around the place is better again.

The burglars will go for the low-hanging fruit, the well-heeled will have better security, locks, alarms, etc. than Dinny or Biddy down in the sticks who are further away from a Garda station or a neighbour.

jmayo

ellejay wrote: »

REPORTED burglary is down 26%

And in other news, drink driving checkpoints are up 200%. :rolleyes:

Are Am Eye wrote: »

I only mentioned his case to give an example of the difference between defend and attack. I was making no broader comment on it.

Nally should have said nothing to the gardai. I wonder what legal advice he had access to. The wonderful gardai were happy to hang him out to dry.

The same Gardaí that couldn't ever serve any of the outstanding arrest warrants against Ward. :rolleyes:

end of the road

TallGlass wrote: »

In fairness at 170 convictions, you could more than likely represent yourself you'd be that familiar with it.

My main point is that the current system cannot continue, it's poor. Apart from the tax payer I feel very sorry for the Garda having to work within that system, it must be very annoying and I mean that from the perspective that, there is no reforming of the person, time and time again your telling/trying with the same person.

Maybe if you reach a certain amount of convictions you should be handled differently, certainly for the same crimes again and again, I think a threshold should be in place for sentencing, if you'd committed the same crime again, then things like suspended sentencing, concurrent sentencing and the early release are taken away from you, I would even go as far to look a a tier system, tier one first offence in that area, tier two, tier three etc.., each tier having there own sentencing structure increasing in time inside. I think that is fair.

oh yes i would completely agree with this. however i would differ in terms of violent criminals, who should get an automatic 20 year stretch on their first offence. we do need reform, but we do need to balance it in terms of insuring fair justice remains, criminality is punished, where possible criminals rehabilitated and society is protected.

worded wrote: »

Quick post as I’ve to run

I’ve been in a house that was robbed by three men in the their 20s and they ran out the back door and scaled the back wall and ran accross the back fields. I watched them run away. They had cut our phone line. Was the 80s. I screamed and ran down the stairs shouting “your in for it now”, and they were, as I was full of adrenalin and very fit and armed.

No one has any idea of the fear and Adrenalin when your hoise is burgalled. There is no such thing as appropriate force I think, It’s primal and your instincts take over

No one was injured Thankfully

Anyway I did some research on what the best weapon for defence

A fire extinguisher in no 1

Can be used at a distance to startle
Can be thrown down a stairs to skull someone if they proceed up a stairs

Excellent in court defence as it’s a house hold item. I was terrified your honour....

A mag torch is another.

Bad ideas are golf clubs as it’s difficult to get a swing and can be used against you.

I know of some elderly in the west and I’ve heard that the neighbors arnt arsed keeping an eye on them

Let’s look after our elderly neighbours everyone

And also there must be some panic electronic devices that can be deployed to help alert orthers to an attack or the need for help

Also - the mist be electronic devices used to track known convicted thugs.
Civil liberties ? Either wear this location sensor - or jail.

Where there is a will there is a way

Thanks

tagging isn't against civil liberties so there is nothing stopping it from becoming the norm where needed. we will need to spend money on the staff to monitor and garda resources however.

A Little Pony

Ballstein wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

What are you talking about? The thread is about criminal thugs, stop defending criminals and bringing up irrelevant drivel.

And you said Ireland is a dump and full of criminals. I’m far from defending criminals but I will defend my country from a bitter little bigoted yoke such as yourself.

Nothing to be bitter about. It's the truth, it is a dump with a criminal problem and a disgraceful homeless problem. I wish you could stick to what the discussion is about which is the state of criminality in Ireland.

Dr Crayfish

How are the Garda who are already stretched for numbers supposed to police rural Ireland which is basically one off housing all over the place?
If I was elderly I know I'd rather live in a town or village rather than being vulnerable in some house in the middle of nowhere, which also makes you reliant on a car.

Are Am Eye

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

How are the Garda who are already stretched for numbers supposed to police rural Ireland which is basically one off housing all over the place?
If I was elderly I know I'd rather live in a town or village rather than being vulnerable in some house in the middle of nowhere, which also makes you reliant on a car.

Yeah the go to excuse, numbers.

Do your remember one of the main findings of Policing Report was that there were over a thousand guards sitting behind desks who should be released to operational duty. Hundreds and hundreds in Headquarters in the phoenix park.
None have been moved. How much did tax payer pay for that Policing Report?

Sofiztikated

A Little Pony wrote: »

Nothing to be bitter about. It's the truth, it is a dump with a criminal problem and a disgraceful homeless problem. I wish you could stick to what the discussion is about which is the state of criminality in Ireland.

In Northern Ireland, homicide is up 5%, and rape up 12% from November '16. Fraud has increased by 68.4%

So I guess it's a dump, full of rapists, killers and conmen.

A Little Pony

Sofiztikated wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Nothing to be bitter about. It's the truth, it is a dump with a criminal problem and a disgraceful homeless problem. I wish you could stick to what the discussion is about which is the state of criminality in Ireland.

In Northern Ireland, homicide is up 5%, and rape up 12% from November '16.  Fraud has increased by 68.4%

So I guess it's a dump, full of rapists, killers and conmen.

It is, at least I can admit it.

donegaLroad

Then Ireland north and south, should unite into one big dump full of criminals, then there can be no arguing. ;-)

falinn merking

end of the road wrote: »

oh yes i would completely agree with this. however i would differ in terms of violent criminals, who should get an automatic 20 year stretch on their first offence. we do need reform, but we do need to balance it in terms of insuring fair justice remains, criminality is punished, where possible criminals rehabilitated and society is protected.




tagging isn't against civil liberties so there is nothing stopping it from becoming the norm where needed. we will need to spend money on the staff to monitor and garda resources however.

I feel some people mistake your posts for making excuses but I see the point your making and I agree.
People want to rant but this achieves nothing.

We need a properly functioning criminal justice system and the simple fact is we don't have that.

Like you said money will need to be spent and incompetent people sacked but when has that ever happened in Ireland?

donegaLroad

donegaLroad wrote: »

Then Ireland north and south, should unite into one big dump full of criminals, then there can be no arguing. ;-)

Let our powers combine? God no. The world (and us) doesn't need the super retarded villains that kind of relationship would produce. Besides, a United Ireland would likely bring us to the level where no burglar would want to rob us since we'd be scuppered economically.

Verpiss dich wrote: »

Like you said money will need to be spent and incompetent people sacked but when has that ever happened in Ireland?

Well... It's happened... but they're replaced with other incompetents or managed by the corrupt so any degree of competency is blocked out. The real problem with this country that it's impossible to take the politics out of any system. They're all tied to someone.

donegaLroad

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Let our powers combine? God no. The world (and us) doesn't need the super retarded villains that kind of relationship would produce. Besides, a United Ireland would likely bring us to the level where no burglar would want to rob us since we'd be scuppered economically.

What I was trying to say with that tongue in cheek remark was, if a person feels that their country is merely a dump full of criminals, then what matters what flag you live under if you have no national pride.

And it was directed at a certain poster from over the border, who occasionally appears to pour scorn over posters on this forum, for no other reason than they are southern Irish.