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Burglary after Burglary-Modern Ireland

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135

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    #62
    A Little Pony
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    It's not a surprise. Ireland is dump and full of criminals and they love the Irish "justice" system.


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    #63
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    end of the road wrote: »
    and that's the problem. people need to report the burglary even if it is likely the gards won't be able to do anything. it will be on record at least and the numbers may reach a number that would force the government to deal with the issue. while people don't report and the number goes down, the government aren't going to do jot.

    They're unlikely to do anything anyway. Like seriously, what can they do? Put more Gardai on the streets? Okay. More criminals get caught and arrested. Yay! More prisons? Just means more people being sent to prison for a slightly longer sentencing period. [And I do wonder where the money for all of these things is going to come from]

    The interest groups have got this sown up. Criminals are people to be pitied and they cannot be treated differently than normal citizens. It's not their fault that they're committing crime, it's society's fault. So what is a government who cares about the next election going to do? They'll make grand but vague gestures/promises, issue a directive for some expensive research (but useless for practical application) and hope that the next government will have to make up the difference...

    I guess I've become overly cynical when it comes to what a government is capable of doing regarding criminals and an effective legal system. I just don't see any improvements happening even if the general population was demanding effective change... since most people want changes that are sugar-coated.


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    #64
    Ballstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 93 ✭✭Ballstein


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    It's not a surprise. Ireland is dump and full of criminals and they love the Irish "justice" system.

    Be much better the way ye used to do it I suppose, if there’s an O or a Mc in the name that was good enough to put a person away under Ulster Justice system. Your a horrible little bigot


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    #65
    Atoms for Peace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭Atoms for Peace


    Potential-Monke wrote: »
    Just so people know, you can and should defend yourself and your property by any means necessary. But, and here's the important part, it needs to be on par with the perceived threat, ie: If someone is coming at you with a knife, you can't go get a gun and shoot them, similarly, you can't go at a criminal with a hurley if he's unarmed. But, the law is on the perceived threat, so if you can prove that you believed they had a gun, knife, etc, you can get away with nearly any form of self defence.

    A knife is a deadly weapon, shooting a scumbag with one is entirely reasonable. The burden of responsibility should be weighted heavily on the perp.


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    #66
    donegaLroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭donegaLroad


    I know a guy who was stationed in Inishowen. One Saturday night 2 years ago, himself and one other Garda were the only two Gardai on duty in one particular station and the two of them had to cover the whole of Inishowen, approx 40,000 people.


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    #67
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,356 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    donegaLroad wrote: »
    I know a guy who was stationed in Inishowen. One Saturday night 2 years ago, himself and one other Garda were the only two Gardai on duty in one particular station and the two of them had to cover the whole of Inishowen, approx 40,000 people.
    Whatever about the population, it's nearly 1000km squared on absolute boreens.


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    #68
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    donegaLroad wrote: »
    I know a guy who was stationed in Inishowen. One Saturday night 2 years ago, himself and one other Garda were the only two Gardai on duty in one particular station and the two of them had to cover the whole of Inishowen, approx 40,000 people.

    'expansionary fiscal contraction':rolleyes:


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    #69
    Ballstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 93 ✭✭Ballstein


    Potential-Monke wrote: »
    Just so people know, you can and should defend yourself and your property by any means necessary. But, and here's the important part, it needs to be on par with the perceived threat, ie: If someone is coming at you with a knife, you can't go get a gun and shoot them, similarly, you can't go at a criminal with a hurley if he's unarmed. But, the law is on the perceived threat, so if you can prove that you believed they had a gun, knife, etc, you can get away with nearly any form of self defence.

    I would be fairly confident that if an intruder in your house came at you with a knife then any and all force you used in your defense would be entirely justified, up to and including shooting them.


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    #70
    falinn merking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 415 ✭✭falinn merking


    Potential-Monke wrote: »
    Just so people know, you can and should defend yourself and your property by any means necessary. But, and here's the important part, it needs to be on par with the perceived threat, ie: If someone is coming at you with a knife, you can't go get a gun and shoot them, similarly, you can't go at a criminal with a hurley if he's unarmed. But, the law is on the perceived threat, so if you can prove that you believed they had a gun, knife, etc, you can get away with nearly any form of self defence.


    Can't agree with this.

    I have never been in a fight our used a weapon.
    If somebody came into my home with a knife I would do my very best to strike a killer blow and my conscience would be clear.

    If you put up a half assed defence all you have is a very angry attacker coming at you.
    I would rather be locked up than disfigured or dead.

    Edit this is me sitting detached and relaxed at a keyboard.
    I honestly have no idea how I would react.

    I hope I never have to face that situation.


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    #71
    LirW
    Registered Users Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭LirW


    Potential-Monke wrote: »
    Just so people know, you can and should defend yourself and your property by any means necessary. But, and here's the important part, it needs to be on par with the perceived threat, ie: If someone is coming at you with a knife, you can't go get a gun and shoot them, similarly, you can't go at a criminal with a hurley if he's unarmed. But, the law is on the perceived threat, so if you can prove that you believed they had a gun, knife, etc, you can get away with nearly any form of self defence.

    That's the thing though and by no means I'm for self-justice: If someone breaks into my house I know they're up to no good.
    If they threaten me or, even worse, my kids, do I know to what extend that'll happen? I don't want to see anyone suddenly pulling a knife on my children, especially not in their own home.

    In an extreme situation like that you don't know if your life is at danger or not, because the lads are already around.


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    #72
    Are Am Eye
    Registered Users Posts: 2,166 ✭✭✭Are Am Eye


    Potential monk is a bit off the mark there.
    It's important people know their legal rights.

    You can use the minimum necessary force to defend yourself.
    That can mean using a gun if you're being attacked with a knife. If that's
    necessary to defend yourself at that moment.

    Three important words are - minimum; necessary; defend

    Padraig Nally case for example was where defend came into the equation.
    Because the intruder had left the property and the landowner pursued him outside the property. He had gone on the offensive so to speak.
    Minimum You must use the level of force at your disposal that will achieve your objective to defend yourself. Everything above this level is not seen as fair game. Obviously will be judged on what the reasonable man would assess as minimum necessary in the midst of such an attack.


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    #73
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    Ireland is dump and full of criminals

    that's a horrible thing to say about your fellow irish citizens.
    most of us are not criminals and abide by the law.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #74
    falinn merking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 415 ✭✭falinn merking


    end of the road wrote: »
    that's a horrible thing to say about your fellow irish citizens.
    most of us are not criminals and abide by the law.

    I would agree with this the real problem being the criminals just have no fear of the law.


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    #75
    donegaLroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭donegaLroad


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    It's not a surprise. Ireland is dump and full of criminals and they love the Irish "justice" system.

    In fairness, we have had a good number of raids in Donegal, from gangs of criminals from over the border.


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    #76
    Infini
    Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭Infini


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Shur why not, works well in America!

    To be fair we do have the McNally defence. Sad to say they wouldnt be attempting break-ins if they were gonna be leaving in body bags.


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    #77
    mikemac2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭mikemac2


    Potential-Monke wrote: »
    If someone is coming at you with a knife, you can't go get a gun and shoot them, similarly, you can't go at a criminal with a hurley if he's unarmed. l

    That’s not the Chicago way :(

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFWfOBfTQLg


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    #78
    theoneeyedman
    Registered Users Posts: 6,367 ✭✭✭theoneeyedman


    testaccount123 wrote: »
    Burglary is down 26% according to the CSO

    LOFvckingL.

    And the Garda crime stats can be believed now,can they??
    FFS...funniest post I saw here in a long time.


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    #79
    rustynutz
    Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭rustynutz


    ellejay wrote: »
    REPORTED burglary is down 26%

    Or maybe another case of the guards inaccurate figures


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    #80
    A Little Pony
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    Ballstein wrote: »
    A Little Pony wrote: »
    It's not a surprise. Ireland is dump and full of criminals and they love the Irish "justice" system.

    Be much better the way ye used to do it I suppose, if there’s an O or a Mc in the name that was good enough to put a person away under Ulster Justice system. Your a horrible little bigot
    What are you talking about? The thread is about criminal thugs, stop defending criminals and bringing up irrelevant drivel.


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    #81
    tom_k
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭tom_k


    To my mind and it's been stated by a few posters already on this thread and countless others in the past - sentences and bail are the issues allowing this to happen.

    The Nally case was an absolute outlier, those lads never for a second considered that he would appear armed and firing. In the majority of violent burglaries/home invasions with occupier present, the perpetrators are fairly confident that any person they meet will not pose a physical threat to them. This is why the stories of robbers being faced head on by capable or armed homeowners are so rare. And why the stories of usually older people who live alone being attacked are the norm.

    For this reason we can argue til the cows come home about what is or isn't acceptable force, the sad fact of the matter is if you are ready and willing to take these guys on they won't be bothering with you. Not while they know you're at home anyway. All of their targets have been scoped out beforehand to some extent.

    Further to this on the use of firearms issue, if you have a gun in the house, chances are it's a long gun (shotgun/rifle) so you've got doorways, walls etc. to contend with, you've just been startled awake, you have to get to the gun, load it (probably in darkness) and then acquire and engage target or targets. All the while adrenaline pumping and heart racing. Might work for the Navy seals out there but I couldn't say with any confidence that I could make it work. I'd probably be more confident going at them with a claw hammer to be honest.

    So we're back to the deterrent which is sentencing and bail, write to TDs about your concerns, give them hell the next time they're canvassing, in the meantime, if you can check in on elderly neighbours and organise with your community to help ensure their safety. We do that around here, with some success.


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    #82
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,474 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Maybe we need to reclassify these crimes.

    Just for discussion on the basis that most of these crimes are premeditated and nobody finds themselves on someone else's premises stealing their property by accident.

    1- Robbing from yards and unoccupied houses is burglary mandatory minimum sentence 2.5 years.
    2- Entering an occupied house is second class aggravated burglary mandatory minimum sentence 5 years.
    3- Entering an occupied house and offering violence to occupants is first class aggravated burglary mandatory minimum sentence 10 years.

    There would of course be scope for longer sentences in particularly serious cases.


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    #83
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,568 ✭✭✭Allinall


    theoneeyedman wrote: »
    LOFvckingL.

    And the Garda crime stats can be believed now,can they??
    FFS...funniest post I saw here in a long time.

    They're not Garda stats.

    LOL


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    #84
    Ballstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 93 ✭✭Ballstein


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    What are you talking about? The thread is about criminal thugs, stop defending criminals and bringing up irrelevant drivel.

    And you said Ireland is a dump and full of criminals. I’m far from defending criminals but I will defend my country from a bitter little bigoted yoke such as yourself.


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    #85
    Ballstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 93 ✭✭Ballstein


    Allinall wrote: »
    They're not Garda stats.

    LOL

    And who provides the CSO with crime stats? The National Maternity Hospital?


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    #86
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    testaccount123 wrote: »
    Burglary is down 26% according to the CSO
    like the breathalyser testing figures?


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    #87
    diomed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,744 ✭✭✭diomed


    testaccount123 wrote: »
    Burglary is down 26% according to the CSO
    Probably burglary reported is down, while actual burglary is up.
    I learn you can do anything with statistics, if you listen to the news.


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    #88
    kurtainsider
    Registered Users Posts: 324 ✭✭kurtainsider


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Can't see that doing much to reducing crime figures, criminals have particularly complex problems that are difficult to address. It's always interesting to talk to people that have served time and those that have worked closely with them.

    Wanderer - how it would reduce crime figures is that these people can't go around terrorizing elderly people in their homes if they are in prision.

    I was just thinking the other day about the current use of the phrase "complex needs". Am I correct in saying that this is the new PC term for describing utter scumbags?


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    #89
    Noveight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,813 ✭✭✭Noveight


    One of the scumbags responsible for those two violent burglaries in Limerick had 139 previous convictions at the age of 53. One hundred and thirty nine. That works out at almost 4 convictions a year every year since he turned 18. He was in and out of the courts like the rest of us visit a hairdresser, no deterrent whatsoever.


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    #90
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    kurtainsider wrote: »
    Wanderer - how it would reduce crime figures is that these people can't go around terrorizing elderly people in their homes if they are in prision.

    If they are in prison... the problem being is that they're not in prison. Others on boards have linked to stats that show prisons in Ireland often have more space available, but judges are still giving lenient sentencing for social excuses or suspended sentencing.

    And Just imagine if sentencing was enforced, the numbers in prison would rise dramatically for much longer sentences (reflecting the reality of the crimes), we would then have prison space shortages... without the finances to effectively create more prisons, get more prison staff, services etc.

    I don't see the existing system of incarceration as being effective enough to deter criminals even if they were to serve the actual times they should. There is little fear in criminals at being locked away. Sure, it's a deterrent for you and me. The idea of getting a criminal record scares the bejesus out of me. But it doesn't scare repeat offenders...

    Now, I get that capital punishment is not going to happen. I also get that we're not going to be able to take away personal/human rights. However, we do need to find a balance between that and punishing criminals especially those that repeat crime. But simply giving prison time is definitely not the answer.


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    #91
    Nekarsulm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,192 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    Are Am Eye wrote: »

    Padraig Nally case for example was where defend came into the equation.
    Because the intruder had left the property and the landowner pursued him outside the property. He had gone on the offensive so to speak.
    k.

    Padraig Nally's major problem was that he had a single barrel shotgun.

    These things are in hundreds of Irish farmhouses, often dating back to the 1930s.
    Sometimes sitting in the hotpress or hall cupboard for years between shots been taken, many of them not safe to use with modern cartridges.

    If Padraig had had a double barrel and shot Frog Ward on the spot, without having to stop and re-load, it's probable that he would never have served any prison time.
    I have friends farm over that direction, and they claim that thefts from farms etc stopped completely for several years after Wards killing.


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