Burglary after Burglary-Modern Ireland

Ballstein

I remember watching a program on the armed robbery epidemic London had in the early 80's. The program interviewed both the criminals and the Flying Squad officers from the time. They laughed about the chases across the city and getting 2-3 years if they got caught. The presenter asked what eventually stopped it, was it the technology like dye packs? better policing? more secure banks etc? They agreed that it all contributed to the end but the single biggest factor was sentencing, the judges started giving them 15-20 years in prison when they got caught. They explained it was simple risk vs reward. How much do I need to steal in order to justify a possible 20 years in prison. How much money do I need to support the wife and family, to stop her moving in with the neighbour. The risks simply outweighed the rewards.
Judges in Ireland simply do not impose harsh enough sentences on certain crimes to act as a genuine deterent.

Wanderer78

Deleted User wrote:

But hey! if America has tried something and failed, we shouldn't ever consider implementing anything similar.

It is a country filled with other human beings though, different, yes, but very similar in other ways. Loading a country with arms and then introducing stressors, generally doesn't work out too well, they will eventually start shooting each other!

LirW

Wanderer78 wrote: »

It is a country filled with other human beings though, different, yes, but very similar in other ways. Loading a country with arms and then introducing stressors, generally doesn't work out too well, they will eventually start shooting each other!

This is where the whole thing is flawed unfortunately.

While I'm very much in favour for strict gun control to prevent tragedies from happening, I'm wondering why someone who defends his family from an intruder with a baseball bat would most likely face a higher criminal charge than the intruder himself for burglary and maybe assault.

Cantona's Collars

The bail laws are a joke here. A scumbag gets caught,gets bail and goes on a crime spree in the knowledge that they won't get any time added to the original if any sentence they might get. They have little or no fear of the law.
Even car theft is treated as a minor crime,it should be classed the same as stealing the monetary equivalent of the cars value and sentences should reflect this.

El Weirdo

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I would like to see more garda patrols...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NX1mGNic8s

Ballstein

Wanderer78 wrote: »

It is a country filled with other human beings though, different, yes, but very similar in other ways. Loading a country with arms and then introducing stressors, generally doesn't work out too well, they will eventually start shooting each other!

Would these stressors be like mortgages, work, kids, illness, commutting? You know the stuff that 99% of us deal with in life without breaking into a 80 year old widows house and beating her senseless. In all your posts you mention outside factors are the reason for these peoples actions, do you not accept that some people are just bad. My guess is you are big on ideas but small on experience.

1874

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Shur why not, works well in America!

What works well?
Ive relatives who have lived in the States for a long time, last discussion I heard about it was along the lines of how they understood there was so many burglaries or low level crime as they considered it, something they said was virtually unheard of where they live, because any criminal knew the chances of them getting to court were very low as it was accepted that any homeowner would be armed an likely willing to shoot a burglar or intruder on or in their property where they had no reason to be.
As for major crime, they admitted it existed, but that it was mostly limited to certain places and the worst events would always be publicised heavily.
Id be interested to see the figures, but Id be surprised if the figures per capita are any better here than there.
It seems while people here may be less likely to be affected by gun crime which seems to be between gangs themselves. Its just as likely or more so that innocent people will be affected or suffer at the hands of violent criminals.

ChikiChiki

hurler32 wrote: »

In national press and provincial papers its nothing but burglary after burglary.

Women killed in Limerick city because she SAW the Burglar apparently,

77 Year old Visually impaired farmer in Offaly beaten up by 3 men in past few days.

Elderly Woman hammered in West Clare during the day.

4 church's burgled in Co Meath in one night by Travelling Gang.

There has been the Odd success in catching Travelling Gangs from Dublin but there are hundreds of other mid level Travelling gang members in Rural Ireland laughing at their victims and the law. You might have some chance in Dublin with proximity to a garda Presence but in rural Ireland you have been abandoned by the Government to fend for yourself. Sad times.

We have some amount of toe rags and scumbags in the country. Here in rural Victoria, farms, houses and cars are left unlocked all the time. Most people leave their keys in the ignition. It really has become apparent how unsafe Ireland can be. My grandmother got a tank if oil in not long ago and the tank was emptied that same night. Makes my blood boil.

We dont do law and order well. Scumbags have no fear of the revolving door system.

topper75

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

The bail laws are a joke here. A scumbag gets caught,gets bail and goes on a crime spree in the knowledge that they won't get any time added to the original if any sentence they might get. They have little or no fear of the law.
Even car theft is treated as a minor crime,it should be classed the same as stealing the monetary equivalent of the cars value and sentences should reflect this.

I was reading last week about William Kidd and piracy back in the day. Pirates were hanged at Wapping dock between the tides. Was a serious offence. No two ways about it.

Now I know it is nice to feel that we live in enlightened times and boosting human rights is great. However boosting rights without a matching demand on the responsibilities side is a recipe for disaster. All these newspaper stories comprise that disaster - reaping the whirlwind.

Funny how in the 19th cent robbing/boarding another man's boat meant your life. But today you can rob a man's very house and vehicle and walk away with no more than a 'don't let me see you in front of this court again'.

Unsustainable. The Nally case will become less and less of an outlier.

jmayo

BillyBobBS wrote: »

FG have been in power since Feb 2011. We are nearing 7 years of failure from them. The "it's someone's else fault" line is no longer plausible.

Our justice system has been cr** for decades and our Garda have been cr** for decades as well.
The current shower are just a continuation of the system status quo.
As someone mentioned our bail laws are a fooking nonsense.
If an only when a member of the legal profession suffers due to someone out on bail will something be done.
Then add in concurrent sentencing and automatic time off for good behaviour.

There are just too many connected ones more than happy with the revolving door justice system, all paid for by the taxpayers.

And if anyone campaigns for harsher long term sentences we will immediately get the bleeding hearts on about upbringing, social background, area, rehabilitation, etc, etc.

The solution to stopping some of the habitual criminals is being brutally honest the Nally method, pure and simple.

Padraig Nally did more to prevent crime in South Mayo/North Galway than all the Gardaall the social services, the entire justice system over a period of years.

TallGlass

First step is not even a three strikes and your out approach. It should be three strikes and your on your own, get your own representation.

What's worst than the guys with 160 convictions is that person has to be defended 160 times, how much is that costing? There should be a limit you reach, that you cannot claim free legal representation.

Cee-Jay-Cee

There is one specific section of our community that are the biggest culprits in these type crimes and until such time as society stands up to them, quits pandering to their every whim and tells them that their ridiculous supposed cultural practices are nothing than more than an excuse to travel around and commit crime, then these type crimes will become more and more common.

hurler32

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

There is one specific section of our community that are the biggest culprits in these type crimes and until such time as society stands up to them, quits pandering to their every whim and tells them that their ridiculous supposed cultural practices are nothing than more than an excuse to travel around and commit crime, then these type crimes will become more and more common.

Think you've hit the nail on the head but will the government ever deal with this issue ??

Foxhound38

Calling in on the elderly in isolated homes is a vital and valued part of the unique culture of a small section of the population. They just don't tend to call ahead first... boss.

Padraig Nally deserves a statue IMO.

mariaalice

The risk of getting caught convicted and serving a meaningful sentence is too low.

I don't know if it more people back working, just more people in general but there seem to be too few Garda and it manifests its self in all sort of areas for example I have see a big increase in people using bus lanes when they are not suppose too regular users of the road know the chances of getting caught are slim.

Heard an interesting interviews recently and basically the person seemed to shocked at how Australians obey the rules, Its the same in the UK to a large degree.

There is a lot of ambivalence in obeying the law here.

Wanderer78

mariaalice wrote: »

The risk of getting caught convicted and serving a meaningful sentence is too low.

I don't know if it more people back working, just more people in general but there seem to be too few Garda and it manifests its self in all sort of areas for example I have see a big increase in people using bus lanes when they are not suppose too regular users of the road know the chances of getting caught are slim.

Heard an interesting interviews recently and basically the person seemed to shocked at how Australians obey the rules, Its the same in the UK to a large degree.

There is a lot of ambivalence in obeying the law here.

ive lived in Australia for a while, plenty of crime over there to

mariaalice

Wanderer78 wrote: »

ive lived in Australia for a while, plenty of crime over there to

Of course there is there is crime everywhere, its the point that for example people will got with a broken tail light on the car and expect to get away with it, that does not happen in the Uk by and large because the rules are the rules.

Wanderer78

mariaalice wrote: »

Of course there is there is crime everywhere, its the point that for example people will got with a broken tail light on the car and expect to get away with it, that does not happen in the Uk by and large because the rules are the rules.

oh im sure it does, im sure people drive clapped out cars over there as they do here to.

davidk1394

Interesting thread you have started. I live in rural Ireland. There has been a big change due to burglaries in the area. People putting in electric gates, constantly suspicious of unusual cars in the area and fear among the elderly.
We had 10k worth of diesel stolen on us a few years ago. Called the guards, total waste of time. Had a large electric motor nearly stolen 3 years ago and we left it in the field to catch the bástards, but the guards wanted it taken away.
Not taking shìt anymore off people who wanted to steal off hardworking decent people. If someone wants to come here again during the night and rob us they will be met with force.

A few miles up the road on the side of a mountain 2 brothers built two houses side by side. One is in Australia during the winter and back during the summer. Anyway 2 fellas from Romania flew in that morning into Dublin, got the bus down and it stopped in local village. They got off the bus and walked to the two houses about 3 miles away. They waited till nightfall and approached the houses. Unfortunately for them they went to the wrong house. The owner heard noises and went down. He opened the door quickly and pulled in one fella and laid into him. The other fella took off running. They called the guards and while they were waiting his grandmother came along who is in her 90's. She brought the shot gun and wanted to shoot him there and then. She said "what would the judge do to an old lady like me" anyway your man shìt himself with everything going on. The guards arrested your man and caught the other fella the day after. Their both serving 7 years in jail in port laoise. The fella who it happened to told me the story.

ellejay

testaccount123 wrote: »

Burglary is down 26% according to the CSO

REPORTED burglary is down 26%

Foxhound38

davidk1394 wrote: »

Interesting thread you have started. I live in rural Ireland. There has been a big change due to burglaries in the area. People putting in electric gates, constantly suspicious of unusual cars in the area and fear among the elderly.
We had 10k worth of diesel stolen on us a few years ago. Called the guards, total waste of time. Had a large electric motor nearly stolen 3 years ago and we left it in the field to catch the bástards, but the guards wanted it taken away.
Not taking shìt anymore off people who wanted to steal off hardworking decent people. If someone wants to come here again during the night and rob us they will be met with force.

A few miles up the road on the side of a mountain 2 brothers built two houses side by side. One is in Australia during the winter and back during the summer. Anyway 2 fellas from Romania flew in that morning into Dublin, got the bus down and it stopped in local village. They got off the bus and walked to the two houses about 3 miles away. They waited till nightfall and approached the houses. Unfortunately for them they went to the wrong house. The owner heard noises and went down. He opened the door quickly and pulled in one fella and laid into him. The other fella took off running. They called the guards and while they were waiting his grandmother came along who is in her 90's. She brought the shot gun and wanted to shoot him there and then. She said "what would the judge do to an old lady like me" anyway your man shìt himself with everything going on. The guards arrested your man and caught the other fella the day after. Their both serving 7 years in jail in port laoise. The fella who it happened to told me the story.

Some stories have happy endings after all.

end of the road

TallGlass wrote: »

First step is not even a three strikes and your out approach. It should be three strikes and your on your own, get your own representation.

What's worst than the guys with 160 convictions is that person has to be defended 160 times, how much is that costing? There should be a limit you reach, that you cannot claim free legal representation.

that wouldn't be viable as it would deprive people without means to the right to fair justice. even people with previous convictions are entitled to fair justice whether we like them or not. and chances are they would increase their criminality to pay off the fees.

ellejay wrote: »

REPORTED burglary is down 26%

and that's the problem. people need to report the burglary even if it is likely the gards won't be able to do anything. it will be on record at least and the numbers may reach a number that would force the government to deal with the issue. while people don't report and the number goes down, the government aren't going to do jot.

BorneTobyWilde

Have to feel for lone homes in rural areas, they are at such high risk from these travellers gangs.

seachto7

Didn't Mattie McGrath know some guy who took a gun to criminals when they came up his farm boreen?

I wouldn't really be from proper rural Ireland but the folks are from the country just outside the city. We have neighbours nearby.

Auld lad woke up one day to find the car on blocks out the back. Gates were locked and they came and went through the fence so escaped through a field.

The Gardai and people in the area knew who did it, but couldn't prove it. They had a fair idea who robbed the wheels. Nomads, but this particular family of nomads are known scumbags. They also robbed a bag off someone else I know, and the Gardai advised not pursuing it as you'd only be drawing them on you.

We'll get another Nally case sure enough, and the craw thumpers will be out in support of the bullet riddled scum.

Cantona's Collars

A farmer close to where my missus is from was interviewed before on local radio after firing a shot at 2 thieves. He was asked if he had any regrets for doing it. His answer was "the only regret I have is that I didn't have any more cartridges on me".
If you go out with the intention of robbing and terrorising people then you should expect to suffer the consequences of your actions.

LirW

Wasn't there a case recently of a guy in England who lived in a caravan with his sister and they were burgled. Afaik the two guys assaulted his sister and he heard hear screaming, he came in and shot one of the guys dead with a shotgun an injured the other one.
Anyway, he was facing murder charges for that.

DEFTLEFTHAND

The motorways opened up a whole new enterprise for certain criminals.

Drive down from Dub to the midlands in the early hours, do a couple of houses and be back home 80 miles away before the crime is discovered.

whisky_galore

mariaalice wrote: »

Of course there is there is crime everywhere, its the point that for example people will got with a broken tail light on the car and expect to get away with it, that does not happen in the Uk by and large because the rules are the rules.

The way things go here, if you meet a Guard, you'll just plead innocence or ignorance and hope to get away with it. 'Ah shur Guard, it only went this evening, I'll get it sorted tomorrow.'

Most everyone does it to a greater or lesser degree here; the 'tax is in the post' type of excuse. If people know there's a good chance they won't get caught, they'll just take the p1ss.

end of the road

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

A farmer close to where my missus is from was interviewed before on local radio after firing a shot at 2 thieves. He was asked if he had any regrets for doing it. His answer was "the only regret I have is that I didn't have any more cartridges on me".
If you go out with the intention of robbing and terrorising people then you should expect to suffer the consequences of your actions.

yes, a long hefty prison sentence. that is the only legitimate consiquences to be faced.

Potential-Monke

Just so people know, you can and should defend yourself and your property by any means necessary. But, and here's the important part, it needs to be on par with the perceived threat, ie: If someone is coming at you with a knife, you can't go get a gun and shoot them, similarly, you can't go at a criminal with a hurley if he's unarmed. But, the law is on the perceived threat, so if you can prove that you believed they had a gun, knife, etc, you can get away with nearly any form of self defence.