Burglary after Burglary-Modern Ireland

hurler32

In national press and provincial papers its nothing but burglary after burglary.

Women killed in Limerick city because she SAW the Burglar apparently,

77 Year old Visually impaired farmer in Offaly beaten up by 3 men in past few days.

Elderly Woman hammered in West Clare during the day.

4 church's burgled in Co Meath in one night by Travelling Gang.

There has been the Odd success in catching Travelling Gangs from Dublin but there are hundreds of other mid level Travelling gang members in Rural Ireland laughing at their victims and the law. You might have some chance in Dublin with proximity to a garda Presence but in rural Ireland you have been abandoned by the Government to fend for yourself. Sad times.

Yeah there really should be a Garda per shift per person in the country.

Nah. It's the revolving door of the punishment system. Get caught, get arrested, sentenced and out again within a few months.

Having more Gardai isn't going to change much. Their hands are pretty much tied. I must admit I miss the days when the Gardai would take idiots behind the station and beat the crap out of them. There was a lot less crime going on in my area then. Alas, now there isn't really any fear from criminals in performing crime. A slap on the wrist and back to business.

While I'm not suggesting going back to the part of beating up criminals by the cops, I would suggest that nothing is going to improve without batter/harsher sentencing of criminals. Make getting caught for crime something to be genuinely feared.

LirW

There's a young lady here in the village with 2 young children at home, her partner at work sometimes until quite late. My neighbor is a good friend of her.
A few months ago, there was someone sneaking around in her garden when it got dark. She was scared and rang the guards that are located in the next village. All they told her was "Well, if you're so scared then get yourself an house alarm". My neighbor went over and saw that the guy sneaking was hiding in a bush, they wouldn't go near it, because, well you never know if that person is armed. Rang the guards again to get told "ah the patrol car isn't available right now". They found out the day later from another friend that is was doing a checkpoint in a small village down the road at the same time.


We also had people with a dodgy van calling around trying to sell crap and two days later I got a text from the neighbor saying that they were snooping around in my front garden and looked into the windows. Nice when you have to be prepared that someone might want to break into your place at night.

Badly Drunk Boy

Deleted User wrote: »

While I'm not suggesting going back to the part of beating up criminals by the cops, I would suggest that nothing is going to improve without batter/harsher sentencing of criminals. Make getting caught for crime something to be genuinely feared.

Was that a Freudian slip?

testaccount123

Burglary is down 26% according to the CSO

Badly Drunk Boy

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

Was that a Freudian slip?

Lol. Spell check I assume. Wasn't intentional. Still...

Wanderer78

Deleted User wrote:

While I'm not suggesting going back to the part of beating up criminals by the cops, I would suggest that nothing is going to improve without batter/harsher sentencing of criminals. Make getting caught for crime something to be genuinely feared.

Can't see that doing much to reducing crime figures, criminals have particularly complex problems that are difficult to address. It's always interesting to talk to people that have served time and those that have worked closely with them.

LirW

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Can't see that doing much to reducing crime figures, criminals have particularly complex problems that are difficult to address. It's always interesting to talk to people that have served time and those that have worked closely with them.

As much as I understand that, that doesn't help the elderly people that are beaten up or stabbed in their own homes.

mikemac2

How is a garda from across the county going to know your farmyard down in the townland at the far side of the parish

Your local garda used to live in the area and might even have a house that came with their posting to their area. They knew all the local information they needed

Nothing to do with any recession, the cutbacks and closures were going on a long time before that

Wanderer78

LirW wrote:

As much as I understand that, that doesn't help the elderly people that are beaten up or stabbed in their own homes.

I will say, that if I knew an elderly person that was in that position, my opinion would probably change, I fear for my elderly neighbours while they live alone and walk our neighbourhood, but trying to understand why these things occur, means we might prevent them from happening in the future, but remembering, crime will always exist

marno21

testaccount123 wrote: »

Burglary is down 26% according to the CSO

The lack of people reporting burglaries because they know that reporting it is a waste of time likely has something to do with this statistic

LirW

But how will you prevent crime when there is no real punishment for it?
The sentences for burglary/assault are laughably small. If you'd be held hostage in your own home and would find out that the person who did this to you got a few months and was walking free after that, that would be a slap in the face.

I appreciate that there can be a lot of work done to prevent robberies. But that is currently imminent when the pre-christmas break-in olympic are ongoing and especially elderly people are targeted and assaulted in their own homes.

Wanderer78

LirW wrote:

But how will you prevent crime when there is no real punishment for it? The sentences for burglary/assault are laughably small. If you'd be held hostage in your own home and would find out that the person who did this to you got a few months and was walking free after that, that would be a slap in the face.

Have our 'punishment' methods been working to date? Sentences can most certainly be 'laughable', but does this approach actually work, does it actually address the underlying issues?

Tabnabs

One of the three basic functions of government is the administration of justice. When the state cannot provide this most basic of service to the people, it's time to either change the government, or let the citizens defend their rights by whatever means necessary.

Macy0161

marno21 wrote: »

The lack of people reporting burglaries because they know that reporting it is a waste of time likely has something to do with this statistic

Anyone with insurance would have to report though, wouldn't they?

Wanderer78

Tabnabs wrote:

One of the three basic functions of government is the administration of justice. When the state cannot provide this most basic of service to the people, it's time to either change the government, or let the citizens defend their rights by whatever means necessary.

Shur why not, works well in America!

LirW

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Have our 'punishment' methods been working to date? Sentences can most certainly be 'laughable', but does this approach actually work, does it actually address the underlying issues?

The underlying issue is something that can't be tackled overnight, this is a long-term process.
A long-term process isn't doing anything for a very seasonal problem that occurs. That are, at the moment, two very different things.

The current problem is that people are being attacked in their own homes, very strategical and focused attacks that pick on easy prey.
While therapy will tackle underlying issues, it takes time. There is this big, current problem, that needs to be solved asap.

BillyBobBS

This is FG's Ireland. The spin machine is in full flow and those of low intelligence fall for it. Crime, homelessness, rents, housing prices all out of control and that's before the absolute disaster that is the health service is mentioned.

Wanderer78

LirW wrote:

The current problem is that people are being attacked in their own homes, very strategical and focused attacks that pick on easy prey. While therapy will tackle underlying issues, it takes time. There is this big, current problem, that needs to be solved asap.

This goes much much deeper than just therapy, this is a highly complex problem that involves most, if not all our social institutions and systems, it requires incredible amounts of investment, but sadly, currently that will not happen, even watching our dramatic failure of dealing with our homeless situation reveals this.

Wanderer78

BillyBobBS wrote:

This is FG's Ireland. The spin machine is in full flow and those of low intelligence fall for it. Crime, homelessness, rents, housing prices all out of control and that's before the absolute disaster that is the health service is mentioned.

To be fair, it's not entirely, but partly, due to many factors, both internally and externally, and from many previous governmental policy failures.

LirW

Wanderer78 wrote: »

This goes much much deeper than just therapy, this is a highly complex problem that involves most, if not all our social institutions and systems, it requires incredible amounts of investment, but sadly, currently that will not happen, even watching our dramatic failure of dealing with our homeless situation reveals this.

Unfortunately this leaves a lot of people, especially in rural areas with an "Us against Them" mindset. When the justice system doesn't care who will beside the people themselves?
This opens a door to dangerous grounds where people take justice matters into their own hands.

When people sucessfully defend themselves and family from intruders the chance is quite high that they'll face charges that would be worse than the ones the intruder would face.
This is where it is all broken. People don't wanna live in the "well, sh1t happens" limbo.


EDIT: I have 2 children at home, of of them a baby. If I'd have an intruder in my home, I'd make sure to protect my children's lives because nobody is going to harm or threaten them in their own home. What sad state of affairs is it when the justice system lets you down to protect you sufficiently yet you have to fear criminal charges for protecting your own kids.

tom_k

testaccount123 wrote: »

Burglary is down 26% according to the CSO

marno21 wrote: »

The lack of people reporting burglaries because they know that reporting it is a waste of time likely has something to do with this statistic

Given recent revelations I'd have some serious doubt about the accuracy of crime statistics and detection rates in this country.

I know from personal experience locally that certain crimes involving property loss remain unreported due to the feeling - rightly or wrongly - that it's pointless.

Macy0161

BillyBobBS wrote: »

This is FG's Ireland. The spin machine is in full flow and those of low intelligence fall for it. Crime, homelessness, rents, housing prices all out of control and that's before the absolute disaster that is the health service is mentioned.

Opposition parties have voted in many local authorities to reduce funding through maximum reductions in LPT. The last few weeks, water charge refunds have gone out, which is effectively more money sucked out of "the system". It's all the same pot!

Ballstein

Wanderer78 wrote: »

This goes much much deeper than just therapy, this is a highly complex problem that involves most, if not all our social institutions and systems, it requires incredible amounts of investment, but sadly, currently that will not happen, even watching our dramatic failure of dealing with our homeless situation reveals this.

You are aware that the vast, vast majority of burglaries are committed by a small few people. These individuals are well know to Gardaí and rarely grow out of it. Most of these individuals are very prolific and while I do agree that there is a wider issue at play regarding addiction, in rural Ireland at least most of these thieves are driven by good old fashioned greed as opposed to substance addiction. People talking about revolving door prisons and needing new prisons should educate themselves a little. There is loads of space in the country's prisons, most are at 80% capacity and in fact the government are closing down prisons, with the Training Unit in Mountjoy being offered to Dublin city council as a homeless shelter. This is despite the fact that it was one of the few prisons that was offering full reintegration programs and going some way to stopping reoffending.
As someone with a good knowledge of the system, I can tell you we are locking up too many people for too short a time. We need to keep prison for the serial offenders and start giving them serious, life changing sentences like 10-15 years. If your still committing crime in your 30's your not going to change and you need to be locked away from the society you cannot function within.

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Can't see that doing much to reducing crime figures, criminals have particularly complex problems that are difficult to address. It's always interesting to talk to people that have served time and those that have worked closely with them.

I do know people who have served time (Just as I know plenty of Gardai), and I agree with you that there are complex problems involved... but that doesn't mean that we should be paralyzed from implementing punishments that make crime undesirable to commit.

It seems like in modern days we've become so concerned with the underlying factors or reasons why people commit crime, establishing the reasons as being within the fabric of our society, but there is little movement to actually resolving those issues. Probably because nobody has a clue how to realistically do so.

Resolving the issues within our society will take a long time to resolve even if people manage to find a way of doing so (and TBH in my lifetime, I've only seen the situation worsen rather than improve in spite of a more understanding/sympathetic society). However, this does not mean we should simply tolerate criminals and their behavior. Which is what the current system is doing.

BillyBobBS

Wanderer78 wrote: »

To be fair, it's not entirely, but partly, due to many factors, both internally and externally, and from many previous governmental policy failures.

FG have been in power since Feb 2011. We are nearing 7 years of failure from them. The "it's someone's else fault" line is no longer plausible.

GhostyMcGhost

Wanderer78 wrote: »

To be fair, it's not entirely, but partly, due to many factors, both internally and externally, and from many previous governmental policy failures.

Good aul FG. Still blaming FF

2011 was 7 years ago btw

Wanderer78

LirW wrote:

Unfortunately this leaves a lot of people, especially in rural areas with an "Us against Them" mindset. When the justice system doesn't care who will beside the people themselves? This opens a door to dangerous grounds where people take justice matters into their own hands.

I would like to see more garda patrols, this might make it more difficult for criminals and criminal gangs to operate, not an absolute certainty to preventing crime, but something at least. But again, we 're not willing or able to do this at the moment for various reasons

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Shur why not, works well in America!

And everywhere is the same as America. We even share the same culture after all. :rolleyes:

I never understand why people jump to comparing with the US as an objection towards harsher sentencing. The US isn't Ireland. It's not even similar to other European countries. It's social and cultural development is incredibly different to ours.

But hey! if America has tried something and failed, we shouldn't ever consider implementing anything similar.

Wanderer78

GhostyMcGhost wrote:

Good aul FG. Still blaming FF

Please be aware, I've no affiliation with any politician or political parties, many are deeply misinformed about many things, horrible ould job to, wouldn't like to do it

Ballstein

I remember watching a program on the armed robbery epidemic London had in the early 80's. The program interviewed both the criminals and the Flying Squad officers from the time. They laughed about the chases across the city and getting 2-3 years if they got caught. The presenter asked what eventually stopped it, was it the technology like dye packs? better policing? more secure banks etc? They agreed that it all contributed to the end but the single biggest factor was sentencing, the judges started giving them 15-20 years in prison when they got caught. They explained it was simple risk vs reward. How much do I need to steal in order to justify a possible 20 years in prison. How much money do I need to support the wife and family, to stop her moving in with the neighbour. The risks simply outweighed the rewards.
Judges in Ireland simply do not impose harsh enough sentences on certain crimes to act as a genuine deterent.

Wanderer78

Deleted User wrote:

But hey! if America has tried something and failed, we shouldn't ever consider implementing anything similar.

It is a country filled with other human beings though, different, yes, but very similar in other ways. Loading a country with arms and then introducing stressors, generally doesn't work out too well, they will eventually start shooting each other!

LirW

Wanderer78 wrote: »

It is a country filled with other human beings though, different, yes, but very similar in other ways. Loading a country with arms and then introducing stressors, generally doesn't work out too well, they will eventually start shooting each other!

This is where the whole thing is flawed unfortunately.

While I'm very much in favour for strict gun control to prevent tragedies from happening, I'm wondering why someone who defends his family from an intruder with a baseball bat would most likely face a higher criminal charge than the intruder himself for burglary and maybe assault.

Cantona's Collars

The bail laws are a joke here. A scumbag gets caught,gets bail and goes on a crime spree in the knowledge that they won't get any time added to the original if any sentence they might get. They have little or no fear of the law.
Even car theft is treated as a minor crime,it should be classed the same as stealing the monetary equivalent of the cars value and sentences should reflect this.

El Weirdo

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I would like to see more garda patrols...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NX1mGNic8s

Ballstein

Wanderer78 wrote: »

It is a country filled with other human beings though, different, yes, but very similar in other ways. Loading a country with arms and then introducing stressors, generally doesn't work out too well, they will eventually start shooting each other!

Would these stressors be like mortgages, work, kids, illness, commutting? You know the stuff that 99% of us deal with in life without breaking into a 80 year old widows house and beating her senseless. In all your posts you mention outside factors are the reason for these peoples actions, do you not accept that some people are just bad. My guess is you are big on ideas but small on experience.

1874

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Shur why not, works well in America!

What works well?
Ive relatives who have lived in the States for a long time, last discussion I heard about it was along the lines of how they understood there was so many burglaries or low level crime as they considered it, something they said was virtually unheard of where they live, because any criminal knew the chances of them getting to court were very low as it was accepted that any homeowner would be armed an likely willing to shoot a burglar or intruder on or in their property where they had no reason to be.
As for major crime, they admitted it existed, but that it was mostly limited to certain places and the worst events would always be publicised heavily.
Id be interested to see the figures, but Id be surprised if the figures per capita are any better here than there.
It seems while people here may be less likely to be affected by gun crime which seems to be between gangs themselves. Its just as likely or more so that innocent people will be affected or suffer at the hands of violent criminals.

ChikiChiki

hurler32 wrote: »

In national press and provincial papers its nothing but burglary after burglary.

Women killed in Limerick city because she SAW the Burglar apparently,

77 Year old Visually impaired farmer in Offaly beaten up by 3 men in past few days.

Elderly Woman hammered in West Clare during the day.

4 church's burgled in Co Meath in one night by Travelling Gang.

There has been the Odd success in catching Travelling Gangs from Dublin but there are hundreds of other mid level Travelling gang members in Rural Ireland laughing at their victims and the law. You might have some chance in Dublin with proximity to a garda Presence but in rural Ireland you have been abandoned by the Government to fend for yourself. Sad times.

We have some amount of toe rags and scumbags in the country. Here in rural Victoria, farms, houses and cars are left unlocked all the time. Most people leave their keys in the ignition. It really has become apparent how unsafe Ireland can be. My grandmother got a tank if oil in not long ago and the tank was emptied that same night. Makes my blood boil.

We dont do law and order well. Scumbags have no fear of the revolving door system.

topper75

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

The bail laws are a joke here. A scumbag gets caught,gets bail and goes on a crime spree in the knowledge that they won't get any time added to the original if any sentence they might get. They have little or no fear of the law.
Even car theft is treated as a minor crime,it should be classed the same as stealing the monetary equivalent of the cars value and sentences should reflect this.

I was reading last week about William Kidd and piracy back in the day. Pirates were hanged at Wapping dock between the tides. Was a serious offence. No two ways about it.

Now I know it is nice to feel that we live in enlightened times and boosting human rights is great. However boosting rights without a matching demand on the responsibilities side is a recipe for disaster. All these newspaper stories comprise that disaster - reaping the whirlwind.

Funny how in the 19th cent robbing/boarding another man's boat meant your life. But today you can rob a man's very house and vehicle and walk away with no more than a 'don't let me see you in front of this court again'.

Unsustainable. The Nally case will become less and less of an outlier.

jmayo

BillyBobBS wrote: »

FG have been in power since Feb 2011. We are nearing 7 years of failure from them. The "it's someone's else fault" line is no longer plausible.

Our justice system has been cr** for decades and our Garda have been cr** for decades as well.
The current shower are just a continuation of the system status quo.
As someone mentioned our bail laws are a fooking nonsense.
If an only when a member of the legal profession suffers due to someone out on bail will something be done.
Then add in concurrent sentencing and automatic time off for good behaviour.

There are just too many connected ones more than happy with the revolving door justice system, all paid for by the taxpayers.

And if anyone campaigns for harsher long term sentences we will immediately get the bleeding hearts on about upbringing, social background, area, rehabilitation, etc, etc.

The solution to stopping some of the habitual criminals is being brutally honest the Nally method, pure and simple.

Padraig Nally did more to prevent crime in South Mayo/North Galway than all the Gardaall the social services, the entire justice system over a period of years.

TallGlass

First step is not even a three strikes and your out approach. It should be three strikes and your on your own, get your own representation.

What's worst than the guys with 160 convictions is that person has to be defended 160 times, how much is that costing? There should be a limit you reach, that you cannot claim free legal representation.

Cee-Jay-Cee

There is one specific section of our community that are the biggest culprits in these type crimes and until such time as society stands up to them, quits pandering to their every whim and tells them that their ridiculous supposed cultural practices are nothing than more than an excuse to travel around and commit crime, then these type crimes will become more and more common.

hurler32

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

There is one specific section of our community that are the biggest culprits in these type crimes and until such time as society stands up to them, quits pandering to their every whim and tells them that their ridiculous supposed cultural practices are nothing than more than an excuse to travel around and commit crime, then these type crimes will become more and more common.

Think you've hit the nail on the head but will the government ever deal with this issue ??

Foxhound38

Calling in on the elderly in isolated homes is a vital and valued part of the unique culture of a small section of the population. They just don't tend to call ahead first... boss.

Padraig Nally deserves a statue IMO.

The risk of getting caught convicted and serving a meaningful sentence is too low.

I don't know if it more people back working, just more people in general but there seem to be too few Garda and it manifests its self in all sort of areas for example I have see a big increase in people using bus lanes when they are not suppose too regular users of the road know the chances of getting caught are slim.

Heard an interesting interviews recently and basically the person seemed to shocked at how Australians obey the rules, Its the same in the UK to a large degree.

There is a lot of ambivalence in obeying the law here.

Wanderer78

mariaalice wrote: »

The risk of getting caught convicted and serving a meaningful sentence is too low.

I don't know if it more people back working, just more people in general but there seem to be too few Garda and it manifests its self in all sort of areas for example I have see a big increase in people using bus lanes when they are not suppose too regular users of the road know the chances of getting caught are slim.

Heard an interesting interviews recently and basically the person seemed to shocked at how Australians obey the rules, Its the same in the UK to a large degree.

There is a lot of ambivalence in obeying the law here.

ive lived in Australia for a while, plenty of crime over there to

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

ive lived in Australia for a while, plenty of crime over there to

Of course there is there is crime everywhere, its the point that for example people will got with a broken tail light on the car and expect to get away with it, that does not happen in the Uk by and large because the rules are the rules.

Wanderer78

mariaalice wrote: »

Of course there is there is crime everywhere, its the point that for example people will got with a broken tail light on the car and expect to get away with it, that does not happen in the Uk by and large because the rules are the rules.

oh im sure it does, im sure people drive clapped out cars over there as they do here to.

davidk1394

Interesting thread you have started. I live in rural Ireland. There has been a big change due to burglaries in the area. People putting in electric gates, constantly suspicious of unusual cars in the area and fear among the elderly.
We had 10k worth of diesel stolen on us a few years ago. Called the guards, total waste of time. Had a large electric motor nearly stolen 3 years ago and we left it in the field to catch the bástards, but the guards wanted it taken away.
Not taking shìt anymore off people who wanted to steal off hardworking decent people. If someone wants to come here again during the night and rob us they will be met with force.

A few miles up the road on the side of a mountain 2 brothers built two houses side by side. One is in Australia during the winter and back during the summer. Anyway 2 fellas from Romania flew in that morning into Dublin, got the bus down and it stopped in local village. They got off the bus and walked to the two houses about 3 miles away. They waited till nightfall and approached the houses. Unfortunately for them they went to the wrong house. The owner heard noises and went down. He opened the door quickly and pulled in one fella and laid into him. The other fella took off running. They called the guards and while they were waiting his grandmother came along who is in her 90's. She brought the shot gun and wanted to shoot him there and then. She said "what would the judge do to an old lady like me" anyway your man shìt himself with everything going on. The guards arrested your man and caught the other fella the day after. Their both serving 7 years in jail in port laoise. The fella who it happened to told me the story.

ellejay

testaccount123 wrote: »

Burglary is down 26% according to the CSO

REPORTED burglary is down 26%