After BXD: The next big public transport project for Dublin?3

cgcsb

Dublin Buses are already equipped with forward facing cameras, no? it's a simple matter of purchasing an off the shelf software package that can recognize number plates. Start dishing out fines. I would imagine it would be a profitable exercise. I was driving into Dublin on St John's Road last week and it appeared that the bus lane just didn't apply to dozens of cars. You lads want to use the bus lane, 300 quid a pop I say.

Idbatterim

budhabob wrote: »

as currently envisaged, it cannot be automated bar for some sections which are segregated. The NTA have spouted the potential for automated operation but they are incorrect.

it should all be segrgated then! the lie that they used was that the original scheme was to expensive, they are so concerned with bang for buck! so use this opportunity to automate the line, what will the staff cost be with the original 90 sec interval per tram per direction?

the staff costs would be significant at that frequency!

marno21

Idbatterim wrote: »

it should all be segrgated then! the lie that they used was that the original scheme was to expensive, they are so concerned with bang for buck! so use this opportunity to automate the line, what will the cost be with the original 90 sec interval per tram per direction?

the staff costs would be significant at that frequency!

The cost savings of redesigning Metro North have been wiped out due to economic loss to congestion etc

The savings for Metro North will be wiped out again multiple times when the inevitable "Metro 2035 Capacity Upgrade" will have to be undertaken

Idbatterim

marno you are preaching to the choir on the inflation, dont get me going on it, but it is the lie that they have used to shelve it. But if this is to be redesigned, which is obviously beyond a joke, if it were to be automated v the original scheme, it would be one huge bonus!

marno21

Idbatterim wrote: »

marno you are preaching to the choir on the inflation, dont get me going on it, but it is the lie that they have used to shelve it. But if this is to be redesigned, which is obviously beyond a joke, if it were to be automated v the original scheme, it would be one huge bonus!

I know I am but there's more than the choir reading

Having it automated would be one thing; but ensuring it's not in such a unionised stranglehold as the CIE companies is more important. Automation would be great but then there would be talk of it having no job related benefits, which could be a political issue

Idbatterim

marno21 wrote: »

I know I am but there's more than the choir reading

Having it automated would be one thing; but ensuring it's not in such a unionised stranglehold as the CIE companies is more important. Automation would be great but then there would be talk of it having no job related benefits, which could be a political issue

I see it as setting down a massive marker, a marker brought about by these regular as clockwork strikes and ignorant as f**k unions and the drivers etc. the irony is, it would stop new workers getting these jobs, but I honestly think a system that wont be delivered until nearly 2030 in this joke of a country when it comes to strikes, it would be lunacy not to have it driverless, with the second bite of the apple!

LegallyAbroad

plodder wrote: »

All this ideological stuff of cars vs public transport is wrong imo. Practical measures are what's needed. There are a lot of places where cars encroach on bus lanes that they shouldn't. Eg. buses get held up on the Clontarf road every morning caused by the cars in the bus lane wanting to turn left on to Alfie Byrne rd. The gardai had an effort a while back to stop this, but few motorists even understood what they were at, and the next day it was back to normal.

They need to put a physical barrier in place to stop that encroachment. A consequence of that will be worse tailbacks for cars on the Clontarf rd. So, they just have to get more buses on the road to utilise the bus lanes more. Give temporary licenses to private operators, and leap-card only service - or whatever has to be done. Until something better comes along, car drivers will continue to sit in their cars (maybe leaving earlier and earlier) for as long as they see huge queues of people standing at bus stops, being left behind by full buses.

If the supply of bus services can't be increased quickly, then we should allow (hov) cars with passengers to use bus lanes. I used to think enforcement would be a problem here, but enforcement is a problem with the current rules anyway. It's basically non existent.

As someone who does that commute route once maybe every 6 months (for the odd specific reason), and either cycles or gets PT the rest of the year, the people in cars every morning are tapped in the head.

It takes triple the time of cycling and double the time of PT and is infuriating. Those people will never leave their cars if doing that every morning doesn't make them do so.

Idbatterim

As someone who does that commute route once maybe every 6 months (for the odd specific reason), and either cycles or gets PT the rest of the year, the people in cars every morning are tapped in the head.

It takes triple the time of cycling and double the time of PT and is infuriating. Those people will never leave their cars if doing that every morning doesn't make them do so.

the network here is so rubbish, that for many people if they already have a car, they are not going to ditch it. yes if you work in town and are close to a luas & have to pay for parking, ditching it makes sense.

Its one thing if your bus will take you from near door to door, its connecting on infrequent routes etc where nobody in their right mind will ditch a car unless they are broke or like making their lives difficult...

We need MN and DU, they will be very quick, connect multiple modes, have large capacity.

I will agree that on street parking on many streets should go, for a start, to facilitate bus lanes and cycle lanes...

LegallyAbroad

Idbatterim wrote: »

As someone who does that commute route once maybe every 6 months (for the odd specific reason), and either cycles or gets PT the rest of the year, the people in cars every morning are tapped in the head.

It takes triple the time of cycling and double the time of PT and is infuriating. Those people will never leave their cars if doing that every morning doesn't make them do so.

the network here is so rubbish, that for many people if they already have a car, they are not going to ditch it. yes if you work in town and are close to a luas & have to pay for parking, ditching it makes sense.

Its one thing if your bus will take you from near door to door, its connecting on infrequent routes etc where nobody in their right mind will ditch a car unless they are broke or like making their lives difficult...

We need MN and DU, they will be very quick, connect multiple modes, have large capacity.

I will agree that on street parking on many streets should go, for a start, to facilitate bus lanes and cycle lanes...

I've lived in about four of the inner suburbs, north and southside, and walking, cycling, buses, dart, or luas (or a combo of luas and bus) has always been multiples quicker than driving.

Anyone working in town and living south of Clontarf to Castleknock or North of Sandymount to Walkinstown shouldnt be driving. In this specific instance, there's a cycle lane from Sutton to the end of fairview, and there's a bus lane lane the whole way in to town with a bus in the morning every ten minutes, which also goes by a DART station.

I wish people would name these places that you need to drive from to get to town (if you're going east-west that's a different story).

But, get, if they want to sit on traffic for an hour, not my problem.

Zebra3

marno21 wrote: »

The cost savings of redesigning Metro North have been wiped out due to economic loss to congestion etc

The savings for Metro North will be wiped out again multiple times when the inevitable "Metro 2035 Capacity Upgrade" will have to be undertaken

Yeh but it might swing a seat in Leitrim.

BowSideChamp

After BXD: The next big public transport project for Dublin?

We need to run light rail on the commuter rail network - the Maynooth and potentially the Naas line. The tracks are there, we just need to use broad gauge trams. Maximise the infrastructure we currently have.

Light rail is efficient and allows for 2min intervals. There is no need for timetables. That is why the luas is so popular.

Light rail will allow for spur lines to be built off the existing tracks to the Blanchardstown Centre, Liffey Valley. Extension can be built to bring the line from the Docklands Station up to OCS.

plodder

The economics are quite stacked against public transport unfortunately as there are huge sunk costs associated with motoring, whereas it is the marginal costs (fuel only) that public transport has to compete against. Maybe, motor tax should be shifted to an extra fuel levy (though certain interests would be understandably opposed to that), but it would level the playing field a bit.

Another major problem here, is the lack of group fares. In Munich, they sell day tickets for 2-5 passengers at the same price as 2 individual day tickets. If you don't do that, families (or groups in general) aren't going to use public transport given that the cost of operating a car is the same for one person as for five. Get people out of their cars at weekends first, and they will start to consider doing it during the week also.

cgcsb

marno21 wrote: »

I know I am but there's more than the choir reading

Having it automated would be one thing; but ensuring it's not in such a unionised stranglehold as the CIE companies is more important. Automation would be great but then there would be talk of it having no job related benefits, which could be a political issue

The Job related benefits aren't the few hundred drivers who might operate for a short time before the whole world is covered in driverless transport technology. Rather it is the tens of thousands of people who will be employed by companies that will set up near the route, secure in the knowledge that their staff will be able to access their office without disruption from union greed.

cgcsb

plodder wrote: »

The economics are quite stacked against public transport unfortunately as there are huge sunk costs associated with motoring, whereas it is the marginal costs (fuel only) that public transport has to compete against. Maybe, motor tax should be shifted to an extra fuel levy (though certain interests would be understandably opposed to that), but it would level the playing field a bit.

Another major problem here, is the lack of group fares. In Munich, they sell day tickets for 2-5 passengers at the same price as 2 individual day tickets. If you don't do that, families (or groups in general) aren't going to use public transport given that the cost of operating a car is the same for one person as for five. Get people out of their cars at weekends first, and they will start to consider doing it during the week also.

That, and just start handing out car bans, which DCC are afraid to do for some reason, but it will have to happen. The Croke Park situation is a disgrace with culchies not even considering taking buses and trains. They should make the area around croke park car free on match days bar local access.

plodder

cgcsb wrote: »

That, and just start handing out car bans, which DCC are afraid to do for some reason, but it will have to happen. The Croke Park situation is a disgrace with culchies not even considering taking buses and trains. They should make the area around croke park car free on match days bar local access.

In fairness, I think you'll find every form of public transport, including long distance trains, are well used on match days at Croke park.

marno21

I often give out about Croke Park match days that public transport capacity doesn't match the demand on the day.

Cork v Waterford in August, Luas was so busy that it was full by the time it got to Heuston. There was queues at Red Cow to enter the tram. There should have been extra trams put on on days like these. Similar story with trains from the south, frequently booked out well in advance. Very little extra capacity put on.

Many people in the south would take the train but not the bus because the train doesn't have to fight through match traffic after the game

Idbatterim

plodder wrote: »

The economics are quite stacked against public transport unfortunately as there are huge sunk costs associated with motoring, whereas it is the marginal costs (fuel only) that public transport has to compete against. Maybe, motor tax should be shifted to an extra fuel levy (though certain interests would be understandably opposed to that), but it would level the playing field a bit.

Another major problem here, is the lack of group fares. In Munich, they sell day tickets for 2-5 passengers at the same price as 2 individual day tickets. If you don't do that, families (or groups in general) aren't going to use public transport given that the cost of operating a car is the same for one person as for five. Get people out of their cars at weekends first, and they will start to consider doing it during the week also.

THIs hits the nail on the head. I drive from ranelagh to rathcoole every day. I'm flexible with the hours I work. Here is my option, drive it in twenty minutes ish in light traffic or bus into town and take the 69 out which does a mini tour of west Dublin! Real toughie! I'd say it would ad an extra hour to my commute if not slightly more, that would be over two extra hours per day!

cgcsb

it probably doesn't suit the wurkers at CIÉ to match capacity to demand on those days.

markpb

plodder wrote: »

buses get held up on the Clontarf road every morning caused by the cars in the bus lane wanting to turn left on to Alfie Byrne rd. The gardai had an effort a while back to stop this, but few motorists even understood what they were at, and the next day it was back to normal. They need to put a physical barrier in place to stop that encroachment.

I've long been a fan of the bus lanes in Paris. They've done something similar on the N1 inbound at Whitehall but with ugly flappy wands instead.

Paris


Whitehall

keane2097

cgcsb wrote: »

it probably doesn't suit the wurkers at CIto match capacity to demand on those days.

I thought you started off saying the culchies won't use the public transport.

MJohnston

markpb wrote: »

I've long been a fan of the bus lanes in Paris. They've done something similar on the N1 inbound at Whitehall but with ugly flappy wands instead.

Believe it or not, the flappy wands are actually a better, if uglier, solution, as they allow access to emergency vehicles which can drive over the wands easily.

MJohnston

Idbatterim wrote: »

THIs hits the nail on the head. I drive from ranelagh to rathcoole every day. I'm flexible with the hours I work. Here is my option, drive it in twenty minutes ish in light traffic or bus into town and take the 69 out which does a mini tour of west Dublin! Real toughie! I'd say it would ad an extra hour to my commute if not slightly more, that would be over two extra hours per day!

Yours is probably a car commute that actually makes sense and isn't that badly impactful on public transport though, as you're traveling suburb to suburb, and presumably you don't have to go anywhere near the city centre to do so. Ultimately the city centre is the big problem area for cars.

plodder

MJohnston wrote: »

Believe it or not, the flappy wands are actually a better, if uglier, solution, as they allow access to emergency vehicles which can drive over the wands easily.

and you can see them better in the dark.

jd

It needs to be enforced again at Whitehall

Van.Bosch

jd wrote: »

It needs to be enforced again at Whitehall

Are people now driving fully inside the lane now despite the flappy things?

At Alfie Byrne road, it’s quicker to stay in the correct lane and merge to turn left at the correct point in many cases as the bus lane fills so far back.

Dr Crayfish

There are women in my job who drive to work from places like Artane and Blanchardstown and Swords. I work by Grafton st ffs! I don't know how they do it. I rarely drive but I went to go shopping in Santry the other day at 3pm and there was a tailback around 1km long off the Malahide road. On a Friday. I had to just turn around and go back home. I do not have the brains for sitting in infuriating traffic.
I use the Dart sometimes but mostly cycle. The Dart is a pretty poor service in that it's always late, and it goes at a snail's pace, but by Dublin standards I'm very lucky to live near a station. If I couldn't cycle to work I'd lose my mind. It really does seem to be all single occupancy drivers in the mornings, and these aren't tradesmen either by the looks of things.

Metro North, high rise high density housing, and Dart Underground are Walter Mitty stuff. It's a joke of a country. I used to live in London and was reading about Crossrail, the biggest engineering project in Europe right now. It's just fascinating, what a wonderful city. We are a capital and should have good public transport. If you live in cycling distance get yourself a bike, the roads aren't great for cycling but it's by far and away the quickest and cheapest and least frustrating mode of transport. I'm 37 now and I'd be very lucky to see Metro North by the time I'm retired.

orangerhyme

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

There are women in my job who drive to work from places like Artane and Blanchardstown and Swords. I work by Grafton st ffs! I don't know how they do it. I rarely drive but I went to go shopping in Santry the other day at 3pm and there was a tailback around 1km long off the Malahide road. On a Friday. I had to just turn around and go back home. I do not have the brains for sitting in infuriating traffic.
I use the Dart sometimes but mostly cycle. The Dart is a pretty poor service in that it's always late, and it goes at a snail's pace, but by Dublin standards I'm very lucky to live near a station. If I couldn't cycle to work I'd lose my mind. It really does seem to be all single occupancy drivers in the mornings, and these aren't tradesmen either by the looks of things.

Metro North, high rise high density housing, and Dart Underground are Walter Mitty stuff. It's a joke of a country. I used to live in London and was reading about Crossrail, the biggest engineering project in Europe right now. It's just fascinating, what a wonderful city. We are a capital and should have good public transport. If you live in cycling distance get yourself a bike, the roads aren't great for cycling but it's by far and away the quickest and cheapest and least frustrating mode of transport. I'm 37 now and I'd be very lucky to see Metro North by the time I'm retired.

I agree about dart underground and metro North being pie in the sky projects.

The future is BRT, cycling and high density housing.
These are all relatively cheap, quick and flexible solutions.
I live near a DART station but prefer to cycle as it's cheaper, reliable, less stressful.
I find cycling in Dublin fine except the city center and the quays in particular.

I know also that cycling and public transport isn't for everyone, so we can't forget about cars either.
I think the imminent changes in the car industry will suit Dublin. Self driving cars, car shares, Uber/Hailo etc will take a lot of cars off the streets which will open things up i.e. less on street parking, less multistorey car parks in city center etc.
I think in future we'll see dart, Luas and BRT bringing the majority of commuters in and out.

wakka12

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

There are women in my job who drive to work from places like Artane and Blanchardstown and Swords. I work by Grafton st ffs! I don't know how they do it. I rarely drive but I went to go shopping in Santry the other day at 3pm and there was a tailback around 1km long off the Malahide road. On a Friday. I had to just turn around and go back home. I do not have the brains for sitting in infuriating traffic.
I use the Dart sometimes but mostly cycle. The Dart is a pretty poor service in that it's always late, and it goes at a snail's pace, but by Dublin standards I'm very lucky to live near a station. If I couldn't cycle to work I'd lose my mind. It really does seem to be all single occupancy drivers in the mornings, and these aren't tradesmen either by the looks of things.

Metro North, high rise high density housing, and Dart Underground are Walter Mitty stuff. It's a joke of a country. I used to live in London and was reading about Crossrail, the biggest engineering project in Europe right now. It's just fascinating, what a wonderful city. We are a capital and should have good public transport. If you live in cycling distance get yourself a bike, the roads aren't great for cycling but it's by far and away the quickest and cheapest and least frustrating mode of transport. I'm 37 now and I'd be very lucky to see Metro North by the time I'm retired.

I don't know how people do it either. In my college in UCD theres students who commute from blanch,bray and parts of kildare daily. 2 hours or even more in total travelling per day..to go to some miserable place to do work.
I dunno, they have something in their brain that I don't. I couldn't take over 30 mins one way commute daily
I just thank my lucky stars that my father decided to buy a house when he was young that was actually in dublin and not in some far off sprawling mess a million miles from the city

Id honestly much prefer live in a 'pod' apartment like those tiny ones in hong kong somewhere in the city than a bigger place in kildare or meath, if I worked in Dublin that is.

cgcsb

wakka12 wrote: »

Id honestly much prefer live in a 'pod' apartment like those tiny ones in hong kong somewhere in the city than a bigger place in kildare or meath, if I worked in Dublin that is.

I think that's what everyone would prefer in your situation. Dublin's suburbs are awash with family homes that are occupied by groups of 20 something professionals all sharing and commuting, they'd much rather have a tiny space for themselves in a central location. For some reason we're not allowed have that, we all have to live in a semi-d even if it's with people we don't know.

plodder

wakka12 wrote: »

Id honestly much prefer live in a 'pod' apartment like those tiny ones in hong kong somewhere in the city than a bigger place in kildare or meath, if I worked in Dublin that is.

For students and other people living alone, on a short or medium term basis, they make a lot of sense. But, you can't build them due to minimum unit sizes. There was talk of changing that recently but there were a lot of protests about "shoe boxes" and all that stuff unfortunately. So, I don't know if it was changed. You're not even talking about "pods" as such, more like 20-30 sq metre studios.

Sam Russell

plodder wrote: »

For students and other people living alone, on a short or medium term basis, they make a lot of sense. But, you can't build them due to minimum unit sizes. There was talk of changing that recently but there were a lot of protests about "shoe boxes" and all that stuff unfortunately. So, I don't know if it was changed. You're not even talking about "pods" as such, more like 20-30 sq metre studios.

The Ballymun flats could have been turned into student accommodation for DCU, but they were demolished.

Do these people who require such paltry accommodation (20-30 sqm) actually exist in any numbers?

Building height is an obvious solution if near PT.

But building anything at all would be better than planning to build and not doing it.

DCC should be out there getting social housing built, probably using building contractors working from tenders to build a relatively small number of houses as part of a bigger development. Currently major developers are getting the job and that then allows them to cream off 20% profit off the top.

Get building - we need 25,000 homes for the next few years, and that is just Dublin.

Idbatterim

to the best of my knowledge, Berlin and definitely the uk , don't have minimum sizes or if they do, they are very small. You can be damn sure they know a little more about planning and better practice than the farce that calls itself DCC ...

The Ballymun flats could have been turned into student accommodation for DCU, but they were demolished.

Do these people who require such paltry accommodation (20-30 sqm) actually exist in any numbers?

are you serious? do you know how many people would prefer to live on their own, but couldn't afford the minimum E1500 a month rent that a current 1 bed apartment, built to current reg's would cost?!

Building height is an obvious solution if near PT.

also everywhere in central Dublin it could be argued is close to our crap public transport... If they allowed far higher density in the docklands thousands more could live there and walk to work, freeing up other stock and getting off the overcrowded shambolic public transport...

DCC should be out there getting social housing built, probably using building contractors working from tenders to build a relatively small number of houses as part of a bigger development. Currently major developers are getting the job and that then allows them to cream off 20% profit off the top.

say they allow a few more floors and smaller units, all of a sudden, you could possibly nearly double the amount of social housing units being delivered, at no extra cost!

All this waffle and talking, the solutions are simple, you would wonder just who the vested interests and snakes holding back on change or fighting it, are...

blanch152

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

There are women in my job who drive to work from places like Artane and Blanchardstown and Swords. I work by Grafton st ffs! I don't know how they do it. I rarely drive but I went to go shopping in Santry the other day at 3pm and there was a tailback around 1km long off the Malahide road. On a Friday. I had to just turn around and go back home. I do not have the brains for sitting in infuriating traffic.
I use the Dart sometimes but mostly cycle. The Dart is a pretty poor service in that it's always late, and it goes at a snail's pace, but by Dublin standards I'm very lucky to live near a station. If I couldn't cycle to work I'd lose my mind. It really does seem to be all single occupancy drivers in the mornings, and these aren't tradesmen either by the looks of things.

Metro North, high rise high density housing, and Dart Underground are Walter Mitty stuff. It's a joke of a country. I used to live in London and was reading about Crossrail, the biggest engineering project in Europe right now. It's just fascinating, what a wonderful city. We are a capital and should have good public transport. If you live in cycling distance get yourself a bike, the roads aren't great for cycling but it's by far and away the quickest and cheapest and least frustrating mode of transport. I'm 37 now and I'd be very lucky to see Metro North by the time I'm retired.

You will find that those women tend to be the ones dropping/collecting from creches/schools and looking after older relatives.

Peregrine

The next major public transport project to be delivered will probably be Busconnects. Followed by DART expansion. I hope it'll be Maynooth but it'll probably be Balbriggan. No Interconnector. Then Metro North.

karma_coma

It's depressing really, should be a large infrastructure project like Dart Underground or MN next but our government has decided to do the spindly cheap projects first..kicking the can down the road.

London's Crossrail to be open by late next year. Wasn't planning on its final form started at around the time Dart Underground / MN were too?

LeinsterDub

karma_coma wrote: »

It's depressing really, should be a large infrastructure project like Dart Underground or MN next but our government has decided to do the spindly cheap projects first..kicking the can down the road.

London's Crossrail to be open by late next year. Wasn't planning on its final form started at around the time Dart Underground / MN were too?

A billion euro on buses is hardly cheap. It's 3 times the cost of LCC. And cross rail has been talked about for at least 100 years

1huge1

Peregrine wrote: »

The next major public transport project to be delivered will probably be Busconnects. Followed by DART expansion. I hope it'll be Maynooth but it'll probably be Balbriggan. No Interconnector. Then Metro North.

I really don't understand the advantage of extending the Dart to Balbriggan without adding more tracks to the Northern Line similar to what they did to the Kildare line in the last decade.

thomasj

My guess as to what will happen:

- DU won't go ahead

- Kildare line services will continue to use PPT and due to limitations won't become DART service

- As far as Balbriggan will be electrified but basically will be extension of Malahide DART. Rebalancing of Northern commuter and Howth DART

- Maynooth will be electrified and will go as far as Dun Laoghaire but I can't see any major change other than the planned 30 minute frequency off peak planned for May. Probably see a 15 minute frequency peak hours (alongside docklands) with the main change being speed and capacity

-longford commuter will become completely a limited stop service

- I think the proposed 10 minute frequency to DART off peak will cover the city-southside area with a 30 minute frequency off peak for Balbriggan (along with 1 Drogheda commuter) , Maynooth and Howth.

The required capacity increase for Kildare will come off the Maynooth line and maybe northern line.

Praetorian

I've voted for Metro North as it would be amazing for the city, airport, Swords.

Personally, living in Balbriggan, I'll be happy to see the Dart extension come out my way.

I hope it will mean a more frequent reliable service.

I assume they will buy new rolling stock because the existing 100 / 110kph stock will not take advantage of the track which can do 90mph (145kph approx).

In a dream world, 4 track from Connolly to at least Howth Junction would happen at the same... I know this won't happen. But could an additional track be done for significantly lower cost? I was eyeballing it recently on a journey into town and it looked doable for long stretches. After all, peak traffic is generally only busy in one way. To Dublin in the morning from Dublin in the evening?

trellheim

Although strictly more part of the Dublin Metro region would two-tracking Bray-Greystones help with strategic transport, south of Bray remains fairly hamstrung with public rail transport growth

loyatemu

trellheim wrote: »

Although strictly more part of the Dublin Metro region would two-tracking Bray-Greystones help with strategic transport, south of Bray remains fairly hamstrung with public rail transport growth

it would be ridiculously expensive to do.

trellheim

it would be ridiculously expensive to do.

Not denying it in the slightest. My question is though would the benefit match up ?

The N11 is not going to get any quieter unless you stick 20€ tolls on it and make one lane a buslane only ( yes its silly ).

Sam Russell

trellheim wrote: »

Not denying it in the slightest. My question is though would the benefit match up ?

The N11 is not going to get any quieter unless you stick 20€ tolls on it and make one lane a buslane only ( yes its silly ).

I think you might get a better result bringing the Metro out from Brides Glen (if it ever gets that far).

Grandeeod

karma_coma wrote: »

Wasn't planning on its final form started at around the time Dart Underground / MN were too?

Yes it was.

LeinsterDub wrote: »

And cross rail has been talked about for at least 100 years

Various similar projects have been talked about since the 1940s. Crossrail itself was born a lot lot more recent than "at least" 100 years ago. It had its problems, but considering what they build in the UK railway wise, it hasn't suffered from the Irish Politicians phobia about putting railways underground. Once Paddy politician had the money he had no problem putting roads underground, but he still lacks the will to try a railway underground. Talks a good fight though.:rolleyes:

trellheim

I think you might get a better result bringing the Metro out from Brides Glen (if it ever gets that far).

to Greystones ?

Kind of missing where I'm coming from which is trying to drive more Greystones/Arklow/Wicklow options and the last two will have to use Heavy Rail

Stephen15

trellheim wrote: »

Although strictly more part of the Dublin Metro region would two-tracking Bray-Greystones help with strategic transport, south of Bray remains fairly hamstrung with public rail transport growth

The thing if you were gonna do that you'd have to divert the line away from Bray Head inland meaning the line would have to inland South of Bray Station which would require a lot of CPOs.

loyatemu

Stephen15 wrote: »

The thing if you were gonna do that you'd have to divert the line away from Bray Head inland meaning the line would have to inland South of Bray Station which would require a lot of CPOs.

I don't think that's even possible - how do you get from the existing line to west of Bray Head and how do you then get back through Greystones. It's still a pretty hilly route that would require a lot of cuttings etc.

There are cheaper ways to improve capacity from Wicklow and Greystones - e.g. put in sidings so more trains can be stabled there in order to increase frequencies in the morning. Further south than Wicklow - TBH I don't think we should be encouraging more commuter developments that far out.

Stephen15

loyatemu wrote: »

I don't think that's even possible - how do you get from the existing line to west of Bray Head and how do you then get back through Greystones. It's still a pretty hilly route that would require a lot of cuttings etc.

There are cheaper ways to improve capacity from Wicklow and Greystones - e.g. put in sidings so more trains can be stabled there in order to increase frequencies in the morning. Further south than Wicklow - TBH I don't think we should be encouraging more commuter developments that far out.

Exactly it is more less impossible to double track the line unless you built an entirely new line.

The thing is with house prices the way they are in Dublin people are gonna want to buy cheaper in the likes of South Wicklow which going to mean people are going to have to commute from these places bringing in the debate do we build public transport infrasture to satisfy people's current needs or satisfy they're future needs and plan properly. Should people suffer from poor transport because of poor planning or should we link places well however poorly planned they are.

Dr Crayfish

What's stopping putting in bus routes, with high frequency, that stop at similar stops to Luas stops? On routes that have similar priority in traffic to the Luas? Like surely we could have something like that running from the airport to centre within a couple of years? Comfortable electric buses could be used with more than one entrance, like a Luas on rubber wheels type thing but wider. Surely there must be similar systems elsewhere?

Sam Russell

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

What's stopping putting in bus routes, with high frequency, that stop at similar stops to Luas stops? On routes that have similar priority in traffic to the Luas? Like surely we could have something like that running from the airport to centre within a couple of years? Comfortable electric buses could be used with more than one entrance, like a Luas on rubber wheels type thing but wider. Surely there must be similar systems elsewhere?

What is there to making traffic lights wait for oncoming buses and trams?

Why not have buses fitted with dash cams to take pictures of cars in bus lanes? These would of course have to be accepted as robust evidence in FPN or subsequent court case.

Why not have some bus lanes designated as bus only (no taxis)?

Lots of small steps to make buses go faster. If a bus goes 10% faster, it is equivalent to having 10% more buses and more revenue.