47.9% of NI would back a United Ireland in the event of a 'hard Brexit'

FrancieBrady

I genuinely feel sorry for moderate unionists this week. I know many.
Once again, the government they look to as protector of their interests was ready to sign them away(in their eyes) but for a phonecalls.

I think a lot of them will have noticed the difference in the demeanour and restrained rethoric of the Dublin team and the tired old redundant vitriol of those politically representing unionism.

Walls are tumbling.

Consonata

markodaly wrote: »

Ok, lots of goodies here.

Free 3rd level education (but mind that registration fee of a few grand a year).
Ireland does well in reading but very very poor in Math and Science, the UK do better there.
More spending on the Social Welfare, great but who will pay for this?

No one when they talk about a United Ireland talk about the means and ways to acheive it. Its like Brexit, a great idea at first until you look at the details whereby it becomes a cluster ****.

A UI will set the Republic back 2 decades of economic growth. Not an easy sell.

Regarding the Unionist population, what is in it for them besides these 'goodies'. The idea the Irish political system will just continue on as normal, to be ruled by the executive from a Dublin like now, is fantasy stuff. If a UI is going to work, we will have to give something back to the Unionists and no one knows what that is. I suggested rejoining the commonwealth. A price worth paying if it works.

It can be a success if the UK and the EU give enough money to make it one. The Belfast - Dublin - Cork economic corridor could be exceptionally strong if given the right investment.

tomwaterford

markodaly wrote: »

Ok, lots of goodies here.

Free 3rd level education (but mind that registration fee of a few grand a year).
Ireland does well in reading but very very poor in Math and Science, the UK do better there.
More spending on the Social Welfare, great but who will pay for this?

No one when they talk about a United Ireland talk about the means and ways to acheive it. Its like Brexit, a great idea at first until you look at the details whereby it becomes a cluster ****.

A UI will set the Republic back 2 decades of economic growth. Not an easy sell.

Regarding the Unionist population, what is in it for them besides these 'goodies'. The idea the Irish political system will just continue on as normal, to be ruled by the executive from a Dublin like now, is fantasy stuff. If a UI is going to work, we will have to give something back to the Unionists and no one knows what that is. I suggested rejoining the commonwealth. A price worth paying if it works.

There has been no impact assessment of a united Ireland. ...all this talk of 2 lost decades is just that...talk??


There will also be massively increased revenue streams from vrt aswel



How is being ruled from Dublin a bus ride away from anywhere in the 6 counties any different to being ruled from Westminster....looks to me....you wanting to throw them all sorts of political sobs (seriously wtf is so good about a commonwealth...everyone says join etc....what benefit deos it hold for the 6 counties now being in it???)without them even asking for it?.



Also there is a lesson here for a united Ireland referendum.....it shouldn't be a blind walk in the dark like brexit

LiamoSail

RustyNut wrote: »

Seems like a small price to pay for a UI considering what has been sacrificed already.

Depends on your priorities.

In terms of health care, education, welfare, housing, taxes, employment, tourism, security and policing, we'd all be better off as is. The cost of reunification would be a huge drain on resources intended for/derived from each.

That's not to mention the possibility of the likes of the UVF etc going to war over it. Additionally there's the social issues, specifically further opening the divide between communities which has been slowly closing over the years. May as well point out too that even in this, the best of modern times for NI, the country can't even sustain its own parliament.

I'm not seeing what benefits reunification brings that outweighs these issues.

McMurphy

LiamoSail wrote: »

Depends on your priorities.

In terms of health care, education, welfare, housing, taxes, employment, tourism, security and policing, we'd all be better off as is. The cost of reunification would be a huge drain on resources intended for/derived from each.

That's not to mention the possibility of the likes of the UVF etc going to war over it. Additionally there's the social issues, specifically further opening the divide between communities which has been slowly closing over the years. May as well point out too that even in this, the best of modern times for NI, the country can't even sustain its own parliament.

I'm not seeing what benefits reunification brings that outweighs these issues.

I've heard this before and can never get my head round this line of thinking.

How might such a campaign pan out?

Would the uvf bomb Irish government facilities/ personnel or citizens in an attempt to em, drive them out back to Ireland?

Would loyalists take a campaign of violence to the UK mainland in an effort to get the Brits to invade Ireland again and reinstate British rule in the six counties?

This needs discussed.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

The best way for a borderless Ireland to work going forward is to guarantee in law all the main institutions of the North for at least a very long time (50+ years) while also having London still in the picture. The PSNI is an armed police force with decades of experience dealing with sectarian murder squads, our Gardai are not even armed! They would have to be run separately, but cooperatively in the long term. The same goes for how the judiciary is set up in the North. Welfare would be paid at different rates for the medium term. And other services like the fire and ambulance would need to stay as it is. Same goes for how places like Queens University is run, or the Protestant, Catholic and Private schools are governed and operated up there.

All the Republic's parties agree that we don't want a border. But deep down there is no way that Fine Gael, Fianna Fail, Labour and maybe even Sinn Fein want 30+ DUP TD's in the Dail (not that they would actually join it anyway). Having Stormant up and running is the only realistic way that Northern Ireland can be governed peacefully. And having Stormont running their own local affairs on a borderless island, within the European single market, under the umbrella leadership of Dublin, London and Brussels really is a way that Northern Ireland can flourish into the future.


The norths future is in Europe, and with a borderless Ireland. That is the only sensible way forward for everyone on this island.

LiamoSail

Rick Shaw wrote: »

I've heard this before and can never get my head round this line of thinking.

How might such a campaign pan out?

Would the uvf bomb Irish government facilities/ personnel or citizens in an attempt to em, drive them out back to Ireland?

Would loyalists take a campaign of violence to the UK mainland in an effort to get the Brits to invade Ireland again and reinstate British rule in the six counties?

This needs discussed.

I don't know and won't pretend to have any insight whatsoever into their likely reaction. I mentioned it as a possibility on the basis of terrorist organisations tending to react to such dramatic changes in stark contrast to their ideals.

There's that mural as you come off the dual carriageway at Mount Vernon; "Prepared for peace, ready for war". I won't claim to know how serious their threat is, but I think it would be naive to dismiss it as a concern

markodaly

tomwaterford wrote: »

There will also be massively increased revenue streams from vrt aswel

From VRT? How?

How is being ruled from Dublin a bus ride away from anywhere in the 6 counties any different to being ruled from Westminster

Well if that is your justification for it, no wonder most people are against it.

blanch152

tomwaterford wrote: »

If the prospect of better education opportunities and increased levels of social spending to tackle poverty aren't enough...what is?

That wasn't enough for the Provos in the 1970s, why would it persuade unionists of today?

Junkyard Tom

Rick Shaw wrote: »

This needs discussed.

I've been asking this question for years on boards.ie and nobody has come up with anything approaching a cogent answer. Why? Because it's game over when a pro-UI vote passes there is nothing for Unionists to kick off about.

blanch152

Avatar MIA wrote: »

It's a bit stronger than 'a chance', I think it's something like 'likely'... too lazy to look up :pac:



That's short term thinking. With a greater population will come greater opportunities for the Super Ireland.

https://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/attached_files/Pdf%20files/NIPeaceAgreement.pdf

"2. Subject to paragraph 3, the Secretary of State shall exercise the power
under paragraph 1 if at any time it appears likely to him that a majority of
those voting would express a wish that Northern Ireland should cease to be
part of the United Kingdom and form part of a united Ireland. "


To appear likely to him, it will surely require some empirical evidence rather than a series of opinion polls. A nationalist majority in the Assembly that passes a motion for a border poll would seem empirical evidence to me.

FrancieBrady

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I've been asking this question for years on boards.ie and nobody has come up with anything approaching a cogent answer. Why? Because it's game over when a pro-UI vote passes there is nothing for Unionists to kick off about.

At this very moment the DUP (in their own eyes mind) are fighting Theresa May to get to stay in the union.
It's gas that they haven't got the message contained (not very subliminally) in the GFA.

blanch152

Rick Shaw wrote: »

I've heard this before and can never get my head round this line of thinking.

How might such a campaign pan out?

Would the uvf bomb Irish government facilities/ personnel or citizens in an attempt to em, drive them out back to Ireland?

Would loyalists take a campaign of violence to the UK mainland in an effort to get the Brits to invade Ireland again and reinstate British rule in the six counties?

This needs discussed.

A campaign of civil disobedience doesn't need violence like the Provos, just ask Paul Murphy for tips.

tomwaterford

blanch152 wrote: »

A campaign of civil disobedience doesn't need violence like the Provos, just ask Paul Murphy for tips.

Provos are gone with 20 odd years

This may not be to your liking....but they are irrelevant to this discussion....noone else has brought them into a otherwise interesting thread...which you have done twice now?


Brexit is the only show in town...watching Britain slowly tear itself apart in a fashion the pira could only dream about Is brilliant

LiamoSail

tomwaterford wrote: »

There will also be massively increased revenue streams from vrt aswel

A years worth of the additional VRT probably won't cover the additional cost of social welfare payments for a week

tomwaterford

blanch152 wrote: »

https://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/attached_files/Pdf%20files/NIPeaceAgreement.pdf

"2. Subject to paragraph 3, the Secretary of State shall exercise the power
under paragraph 1 if at any time it appears likely to him that a majority of
those voting would express a wish that Northern Ireland should cease to be
part of the United Kingdom and form part of a united Ireland. "


To appear likely to him, it will surely require some empirical evidence rather than a series of opinion polls. A nationalist majority in the Assembly that passes a motion for a border poll would seem empirical evidence to me.

Or we could go by census results and along string of polls in the continued absence of stormont?

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

A campaign of civil disobedience doesn't need violence like the Provos, just ask Paul Murphy for tips.

Apart from the Provo bogeymen being away now for more than 20 years, I was responding to another poster who was pondering a scenario where the uvf (or any other loyalist paramilitary group) might, and I quote

That's not to mention the possibility of the likes of the UVF etc going to war over it.

Now unless war in this context referred to a war of words, I don't know what other way anyone could have responded/queried it?

Perhaps you would like to pull them up on their suggestion though, when you've finished with yet anothe Provo rant, that have and prob always will remain all too common a trait.

Junkyard Tom

blanch152 wrote: »

A campaign of civil disobedience.

To what ends?

Mr.Nice Guy

Consonata wrote: »

The fact that its remotely close to 50% without any semblence of campaigning being done is fairly remarkable honestly. It would be fascinating to see what the poll would give if the EU gave a "Unification package" i.e money to invest in infrastructure and the health service in order to replace the services the North would lose out on when leaving the UK

I believe Scottish independence a few years before their Indy referendum was polling around the high twenties, mid-thirties in percentage points. When it was presented as something tangible and details were provided for it, the support for it didn't diminish, but grew. I see no reason why a similar thing can't happen with regards Irish unity.

The fact that support for it is quite steady despite it remaining something vague and undefined bodes well for the pro-unity argument.

The direction of travel is towards a reunified Ireland and I would say the events of the last sixteen odd months are a great reminder of why it should happen, and why events that affect this island should be taken by the people who live and have made their home within this island, whether they identify as Irish, British, Polish, or whatever.

Consonata

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I believe Scottish independence a few years before their Indy referendum was polling around the high twenties, mid-thirties in percentage points. When it was presented as something tangible and details were provided for it, the support for it didn't diminish, but grew. I see no reason why a similar thing can't happen with regards Irish unity.

The fact that support for it is quite steady despite it remaining something vague and undefined bodes well for the pro-unity argument.

The direction of travel is towards a reunified Ireland and I would say the events of the last sixteen odd months are a great reminder of why it should happen, and why events that affect this island should be taken by the people who live and have made their home within this island, whether they identify as Irish, British, Polish, or whatever.

I would like to agree with you but I also think the Irish case is different. Scotland does not have a recent history of sectarian violence like the north does.

I do think that there is some movement that can be made with a good offer that can be made to the North, but it won't be as radical a swing as the scottish one was

maccored

LiamoSail wrote: »

We can't afford the North, it's a basket case economically. Reunification would require austerity on par with the post crash days coupled with significant increases in income tax etc. It's romantic notion but the shouldn't be considered without accounting for the accompanying security issues, likely Unionist campaigns, cuts in housing, health, education, infrastructure etc.

Ireland's not a utopia, but the last thing in the world a country like ours that try's to act like a normal functioning country needs is more Sinn Fein and the DUP

massively jumping the gun. A UI needs discussion first, considering no-one knows yet just how a united ireland might be achieved. The idea that the south takes over responsibility for the north is a bit naive

Red_Wake

maccored wrote: »

LiamoSail wrote: »

We can't afford the North, it's a basket case economically. Reunification would require austerity on par with the post crash days coupled with significant increases in income tax etc. It's romantic notion but the shouldn't be considered without accounting for the accompanying security issues, likely Unionist campaigns, cuts in housing, health, education, infrastructure etc.

Ireland's not a utopia, but the last thing in the world a country like ours that try's to act like a normal functioning country needs is more Sinn Fein and the DUP

massively jumping the gun.  A UI needs discussion first, considering no-one knows yet just how a united ireland might be achieved.  The idea that the south takes over responsibility for the north is a bit naive

I actually  agree with maccored, any move to a UI needs to have a large amount of discussion across a number of sectors. There's no point in joining the two countries if NO is being taken on as a ward of the Republic.

recedite

Consonata wrote: »

The fact that its remotely close to 50% without any semblence of campaigning being done is fairly remarkable honestly. It would be fascinating to see what the poll would give if the EU gave a "Unification package" i.e money to invest in infrastructure and the health service in order to replace the services the North would lose out on when leaving the UK

Considering how close the General Election results were, throwing the "hard brexit" in as an issue seems to have made no difference at all.

But the idea that the EU could chip in some special solidarity funding to a UI is plausible. The problem is, I don't think they could ever suggest it in advance. The EC could only announce something like that "after the fact". It would be far too politically explosive; it would be basically plotting a regime change in a sovereign country.

Jayop

recedite wrote: »

Considering how close the General Election results were, throwing the "hard brexit" in as an issue seems to have made no difference at all.

But the idea that the EU could chip in some special solidarity funding to a UI is plausible. The problem is, I don't think they could ever suggest it in advance. The EC could only announce something like that "after the fact". It would be far too politically explosive; it would be basically plotting a regime change in a sovereign country.

You're not comparing like for like. Election results and poll results for support for a UI don't have an exact correlation. In October there was only a third of people said they would vote for a UI if a poll was held tomorrow.

Now, in almost every poll for a UI and in almost every election for a long time the numbers have been creeping up, but this is the most significant jump.

In the most recent census the number of people identifying as Catholic was just over 40%, so if this poll data is accurate then in the event of a hard border it's not just catholics (the traditional UI support base) who seem to be open to it.

Avatar MIA

Jayop wrote: »

You're not comparing like for like. Election results and poll results for support for a UI don't have an exact correlation. In October there was only a third of people said they would vote for a UI if a poll was held tomorrow.

Now, in almost every poll for a UI and in almost every election for a long time the numbers have been creeping up, but this is the most significant jump.

In the most recent census the number of people identifying as Catholic was just over 40%, so if this poll data is accurate then in the event of a hard border it's not just catholics (the traditional UI support base) who seem to be open to it.

No real increase from Protestants though. It's the Catholics having the courage of their convictions and the "new" comers quiet liking the EU relationship.

The Protestants are no longer in the majority.

All Teresa May had to say to Arlene was, "the alternative is a hard brexit, how you liking them apples now after this poll?"

recedite

Jayop wrote: »

In the most recent census the number of people identifying as Catholic was just over 40%, so if this poll data is accurate then in the event of a hard border it's not just catholics (the traditional UI support base) who seem to be open to it.

Saying "just over 40%" for RC is a bit misleading though.

Table 9 indicates 43.8% in 2001, rising to 45.1% in 2011.
For protestants, 53.1% in 2001, dropping to 48.4% in 2011.

If those trends/trajectories are consistent, then the two major religious groupings should be roughly at parity by now. And that would correspond more or less with the 2017 election results.

Obviously there is more to it than just religion, so we have to accept that the economy is going to be the deciding factor from now on.

A hard Brexit, a poor economic outlook in the UK, and the possibility of new trade deals signed by Britain to import low tariff chlorinated chicken and Brazilian beef would be very bad for NI's unionist farmers.
In this context, the promise of an ongoing special subvention from Brussels would probably swing the balance towards a UI.

As it happens, from the news today it seems we are looking at a soft Brexit, which may limit the kind of trade deals the British can negotiate with other countries outside the EU (similar standards and all that).
And I think the EU would remain tight lipped about the possibility of any money, even if it was available.
So all that indicates no immediate change to the status quo.

Still, we are at a pivotal moment in history IMO. Everything may look static, but the pendulum could swing at any moment, leading to dramatic change.

Jayop

Avatar MIA wrote: »

No real increase from Protestants though. It's the Catholics having the courage of their convictions and the "new" comers quiet liking the EU relationship.

The Protestants are no longer in the majority.

All Teresa May had to say to Arlene was, "the alternative is a hard brexit, how you liking them apples now after this poll?"

No-one is in the majority anymore. There's almost exactly the same amount of Catholics and Protestants and then about 15/20% other/no religion. If 47% of people want a UI in the event of a hard brexit and only 40% are Catholics then at least 7% is coming from elsewhere. This is a very healthy situation and one that if all demographic trends keep on going as they have been for decades will lead to a slim Catholic majority, 30% roughly Protestant minority and the rest made up of others. Should 7% of others still want a UI then it will happen as that will be an overwhelming majority.

Jayop

recedite wrote: »

Saying "just over 40%" for RC is a bit misleading though.

Table 9 indicates 43.8% in 2001, rising to 45.1% in 2011.
For protestants, 53.1% in 2001, dropping to 48.4% in 2011.

If those trends/trajectories are consistent, then the two major religious groupings should be roughly at parity by now. And that would correspond more or less with the 2017 election results.

Obviously there is more to it than just religion, so we have to accept that the economy is going to be the deciding factor from now on.

A hard Brexit, a poor economic outlook in the UK, and the possibility of new trade deals signed by Britain to import low tariff chlorinated chicken and Brazilian beef would be very bad for NI's unionist farmers.
In this context, the promise of an ongoing special subvention from Brussels would probably swing the balance towards a UI.

As it happens, from the news today it seems we are looking at a soft Brexit, which may limit the kind of trade deals the British can negotiate with other countries outside the EU (similar standards and all that).
And I think the EU would remain tight lipped about the possibility of any money, even if it was available.
So all that indicates no immediate change to the status quo.

Still, we are at a pivotal moment in history IMO. Everything may look static, but the pendulum could swing at any moment, leading to dramatic change.

Wasn't trying to be misleading. I got my figures from this...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Northern_Ireland

Where it says 40.8% Catholic in 2011. I don't know where the difference is coming from and in these debates I always used the wiki figures from all census as they're easier to access.

recedite

Jayop wrote: »

Wasn't trying to be misleading. I got my figures from this...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Northern_Ireland

Where it says 40.8% Catholic in 2011. I don't know where the difference is coming from and in these debates I always used the wiki figures from all census as they're easier to access.

The difference is due to the religion question being optional, and lots of people not answering it, which leads to the lower % figures for both groups. But when the " Religion Brought Up In" results are added in, the higher figures come in for both.
But I think we both agree they must be roughly equal in numbers, at this stage.

Avatar MIA

Jayop wrote: »

No-one is in the majority anymore. There's almost exactly the same amount of Catholics and Protestants and then about 15/20% other/no religion. If 47% of people want a UI in the event of a hard brexit and only 40% are Catholics then at least 7% is coming from elsewhere. This is a very healthy situation and one that if all demographic trends keep on going as they have been for decades will lead to a slim Catholic majority, 30% roughly Protestant minority and the rest made up of others. Should 7% of others still want a UI then it will happen as that will be an overwhelming majority.

Look at the second graphic I posted. The poll doesn't mention Catholic and Protestant. It mentions Nationalist and Unionist. The big change is the courage of convictions on the Nationalist side that vote SF and SDLP and maybe Alliance, but didn't support a UI poll.

The other big shift is the non aligned swinging massively to a UI.

arleitiss

Sorry for stupid question but I am not into politics too much but today on radio I heard there will be no hard border between ROI and NI.

So how does that work? I mean EU generally has strong control who enters European Union countries and who doesn't, what stops somebody in UK who just arrived say yesterday via some dodgy ways living illegally there - travelling to NI, and then entering Ireland (essentially easy way into European Union country).

Doesn't that make EU a waterbaloon with hole in it? (where you can freely come and go whenever you wish?)


That's one part of this deal I dont get.

Wheeliebin30

Rick Shaw wrote: »

Apart from the Provo bogeymen being away now for more than 20 years, I was responding to another poster who was pondering a scenario where the uvf (or any other loyalist paramilitary group) might, and I quote
Now unless war in this context referred to a war of words, I don't know what other way anyone could have responded/queried it?

Perhaps you would like to pull them up on their suggestion though, when you've finished with yet anothe Provo rant, that have and prob always will remain all too common a trait.

How are they away 20 years when one of their top boys was shot dead last year???

Wheeliebin30

maccored wrote: »

massively jumping the gun. A UI needs discussion first, considering no-one knows yet just how a united ireland might be achieved. The idea that the south takes over responsibility for the north is a bit naive

There is no government currently in the north yet you think things might get better if there is a united Ireland?

Jayop

recedite wrote: »

The difference is due to the religion question being optional, and lots of people not answering it, which leads to the lower % figures for both groups. But when the " Religion Brought Up In" results are added in, the higher figures come in for both.
But I think we both agree they must be roughly equal in numbers, at this stage.

Oh absolutely, 1% at most between them I reckon and the next census in a few years could see that either closed entirely or even roles reversed.

Jayop

arleitiss wrote: »

Sorry for stupid question but I am not into politics too much but today on radio I heard there will be no hard border between ROI and NI.

So how does that work? I mean EU generally has strong control who enters European Union countries and who doesn't, what stops somebody in UK who just arrived say yesterday via some dodgy ways living illegally there - travelling to NI, and then entering Ireland (essentially easy way into European Union country).

Doesn't that make EU a waterbaloon with hole in it? (where you can freely come and go whenever you wish?)


That's one part of this deal I dont get.

Essentially it shouldn't happen, but the fact Ireland is an island and travel to mainland europe has to be by air or sea means they'll probably just pretend it's not happening. YOu take a flight from Ireland to Spain for example you still have to go through passport checks at the Spanish side and I expect this is where they expect/hope to catch illegals.

It's a bit messy, but it probably has to be given the unique situation.


Edit: And realistically there's still going to be far more illegals coming in across other land borders to non-EU countries and across the Med than across the border at Lifford.

Mongfinder General

Crunch the numbers any way you like. Unfortunately the loons sitting in council estates in Portadown and East Belfast are so thick that they'll believe the rhetoric of their political masters if they feel that power is slipping from their grasp. They'll cause mayhem in the face of any weakening of NI sovereignty.

Here we go

I've no problem with a united ireland as long as it follows the path set out in tgfa and there's an honest and detailed debate up north in what it means no subvention from the uk no nhs and 1000 different other things that I probably cant even think about we may find once the reality is put out there that even republicans will vote to stay part of the uk as Scotland did it's so more then just nationality

PhoenixParker

arleitiss wrote: »

Sorry for stupid question but I am not into politics too much but today on radio I heard there will be no hard border between ROI and NI.

So how does that work? I mean EU generally has strong control who enters European Union countries and who doesn't, what stops somebody in UK who just arrived say yesterday via some dodgy ways living illegally there - travelling to NI, and then entering Ireland (essentially easy way into European Union country).

Doesn't that make EU a waterbaloon with hole in it? (where you can freely come and go whenever you wish?)


That's one part of this deal I dont get.

I don't think this aspect has changed at all.
Ireland and the U.K. aren't part of Schengen and while they have a common travel area with no border checks, a visa for the U.K. doesn't entitle you to visit or work in Ireland or vice versa.

We check people's right to work when they get a legitimate job, that doesn't change. The important stuff, the right to work is already protected with nationality checks and the need to acquire a pps when starting a job.

There are passport controls to visit schengen countries, that doesn't change so the EU in general is grand.

There will be illegal immigrants and visa abuse from people with visas that only entitle them to visit/study/work in the UK trying to come and live here, but we already have that situation. Nothing changes.

Jayop

Here we go wrote: »

I've no problem with a united ireland as long as it follows the path set out in tgfa and there's an honest and detailed debate up north in what it means no subvention from the uk no nhs and 1000 different other things that I probably cant even think about we may find once the reality is put out there that even republicans will vote to stay part of the uk as Scotland did it's so more then just nationality

No NHS is the big one that's always brought up. The fact is that anyone who's not working in Ireland gets a medical card so that's better than the NHS. The Tories are systematically destroying what was once a proud beacon of healthcare so it's not the big deal it once was. The fact is that life expectancy in the south is a fair bit longer so the healthservices while not always brilliant don't compare too badly against NI.

1000's of other things? I can't think of too many. Normally all the things that are listed are completely spurious. Another one mentioned is bin charges, yeah but we don't pay massive rates down here. These things are exaggerated beyond belief. Wages are much higher in the Republic and the quality of life is much higher.

So what do they really lose? Cheap vodka in Asda and that's about it.

Avatar MIA

Jayop wrote: »

Essentially it shouldn't happen, but the fact Ireland is an island and travel to mainland europe has to be by air or sea means they'll probably just pretend it's not happening. YOu take a flight from Ireland to Spain for example you still have to go through passport checks at the Spanish side and I expect this is where they expect/hope to catch illegals.

Just thinking Leo should have gone Balls Out and got Ireland to sign up to Schengen, so the UK would have had to join too :pac: That would nearly have evened out Cromwell

fxotoole

markodaly wrote: »

Our Dail politics is a little dysfunctional, not sure would the DUP and the more militant Shinners be much help here in that regard. It will not happen in my life for sure, we wont even pay for water, do you honestly think da people will pay an extra few grand a year to bail out the north?

Agreed. If a UI did happen, I’d love to see SF struggling to explain to their irate electorate why they must now pay 100% more tax to pay for their now United Ireland

Avatar MIA

fxotoole wrote: »

Agreed. If a UI did happen, I’d love to see SF struggling to explain to their irate electorate why they must now pay 100% more tax to pay for their now United Ireland

This makes no sense. Are the government of a UI burning money in an incinerator?

EDIT - don't judge us by the actions of the NI government and their RHI scheme

fxotoole

Reece Mysterious Albino wrote: »

This poll only asked 1,000 people, come back when they multiple this sample group, by about x6,500 fold.

1,000 people is statistically significant and fairly standard for polls like this

FrancieBrady

fxotoole wrote: »

Agreed. If a UI did happen, I’d love to see SF struggling to explain to their irate electorate why they must now pay 100% more tax to pay for their now United Ireland

How would it be SF's United Ireland.
Is there a political party in Ireland that doesn't want a UI?

Consonata

fxotoole wrote: »

1,000 people is statistically significant and fairly standard for polls like this

Not only that, it was 2,080 people that were polled

ancapailldorcha

No more crap-posting please.

CroFag

Could someone please explain to me why is the percentage of Catholics for UI so low? Aren't they people with a completely Irish heritage?
And how come so many Protestants (fair play to them) are indeed for One Ireland?

I'm left completely baffled...

Avatar MIA

CroFag wrote: »

Could someone please explain to me why is the percentage of Catholics for UI so low?

They are currently living in a state nearly 100 years old and part of the 5th/6th largest economy in the world (although watch this space).

CroFag wrote: »

Aren't they people with a completely Irish heritage?

It would be hard for them to having lived in a society that's not the same as the rest of Ireland because (see above).

CroFag wrote: »

And how come so many Protestants (fair play to them) are indeed for One Ireland?

It's simple, there aren't.

McMurphy

Avatar MIA wrote: »

It would be hard for them to having lived in a society that's not the same as the rest of Ireland because (see above).

I'm not so sure about that tbh.

Most nationalists in the north would identify as being Irish, society for them generally speaking includes a Catholic church school education system, where religion , Irish language and history features strongly in the curriculum.

Life for many will revolve around the local GAA club (it is no coincidence that Ulster county teams feature regularly in the final stages of all Ireland competitions)

They'll listen and watch both rte television and radio stations.

They'll cheer on the Irish rugby and football teams.

Indeed, some areas of Donegal can be barely set apart from Derry or Tyrone. (Culturally or visually)

Not that big a difference in societies if you ask me.

Avatar MIA

Rick Shaw wrote: »

I'm not so sure about that tbh.

Most nationalists in the north would identify as being Irish, society for them generally speaking includes a Catholic church school education system, where religion , Irish language and history features strongly in the curriculum.

Life for many will revolve around the local GAA club (it is no coincidence that Ulster county teams feature regularly in the final stages of all Ireland competitions)

They'll listen and watch both rte television and radio stations.

They'll cheer on the Irish rugby and football teams.

Indeed, some areas of Donegal can be barely set apart from Derry or Tyrone. (Culturally or visually)

Not that big a difference in societies if you ask me.

Agree with all the above, there's certainly immersion in the Irish culture, but is it exclusive? no. Hell, what is Irish culture anyway, when most of us in the ROI follow so much British culture from soaps to sport.

But, there are a lot of NI Nationalists embedded into a lot of British culture, how could they not.

Inertia is a great force.

I think Brexit could be a game changer though.