Alt Coin Thread (Vertcoin, OMG, CVC, PAY etc).

makeorbrake

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Another strong dip, this one aimed squarely at most coins outside the top 5, anyone picking anything up?

Its linked to btc price movement but I don't understand how that's not uniform. A couple of coins I'm watching got walloped so much harder than the rest...which - if it's just a reaction to btc downward movement - makes no sense to me..

snowstreams

It seems like the coins with the lowest volumes got hit the hardest. Some coins on Kucoin etc.

ZeroThreat

makeorbrake wrote: »

Its linked to btc price movement but I don't understand how that's not uniform. A couple of coins I'm watching got walloped so much harder than the rest...which - if it's just a reaction to btc downward movement - makes no sense to me..

hah, as btc went on it's climb above $8K the alts devalued as portfolios were re-balanced & market money was shifted to bitcoin. Then with a modest pullback to the mid $7ks, altcoin prices get walloped again even harder.

Holding anything non-btc is increasingly looking like a lose/lose prospect in the long term.

Maybe the market is becoming more educated and realising that the intrinsic worth of most 'projects' is effectively nothing and the vast majority of icos/altcoin projects were merely crowdfunding mechanisms for small groups of people to get rich without having any legal responsibilities to the 'investors'/bagholders.

Dohnjoe

ZeroThreat wrote: »

hah, as btc went on it's climb above $8K the alts devalued as portfolios were re-balanced & market money was shifted to bitcoin. Then with a modest pullback to the mid $7ks, altcoin prices get walloped again even harder.

Holding anything non-btc is increasingly looking like a lose/lose prospect in the long term.

Maybe the market is becoming more educated and realising that the intrinsic worth of most 'projects' is effectively nothing and the vast majority of icos/altcoin projects were merely crowdfunding mechanisms for small groups of people to get rich without having any legal responsibilities to the 'investors'/bagholders.

I think that the market prefers the "safety" of the top coins, whereas alts are the more "elastic" instruments, when times are bad they'll rocket down and when times are good they shoot back up, that's why people come back into the alts when the bull returns (based on what little history we have)

Concerning the valuation of coins - Ripple is still up 4000% on March last year, is it worth that much? is Litecoin worth that amount?

These aren't values determined by calculations - they are almost entirely psychological

makeorbrake

ZeroThreat wrote: »

Maybe the market is becoming more educated and realising that the intrinsic worth of most 'projects' is effectively nothing and the vast majority of icos/altcoin projects were merely crowdfunding mechanisms for small groups of people to get rich without having any legal responsibilities to the 'investors'/bagholders.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

These aren't values determined by calculations - they are almost entirely psychological

Clearly the majority are rubbish and will end up on the scrap heap. However, there are some decent projects knocking about too...albeit early doors.

It's the valuation of these projects that I struggle with. I think you've got it right Dohnjoe re. psychologically arrived at valuations. There's no way they would raise similar levels of funding in conventional markets. I would like to take a punt on a couple but I feel this correction needs to happen first.

joombo

I also like to read experts reviews about new projects, it helps to make the right choice and reduce the risk. Recently I read at https://itrue.io/ about new promising ICO iTrue. It seems to be very profitable project 'coz it offers a single ecosystem with unlimited opportunities. The platform enables businesses to improve authentication through biometrics and eventually build and market their own applications on the iTrue platform and ecosystem. Besides there is a growing demand for safe and secure authentication systems.

Whelo79

One step closer to adoption for KIN

https://medium.com/kinblog/kin-developer-program-accepts-40-developers-to-grow-kin-ecosystem-6949709d4a9f

Pintman Paddy Losty

Such an exciting time with more announcements about exciting new future adoptions. Its weird the way there still hasn't been any viable uses though. Just lots of exciting optimistic predictions about future uses.

Dohnjoe

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Such an exciting time with more announcements about exciting new future adoptions. Its weird the way there still hasn't been any viable uses though. Just lots of exciting optimistic predictions about future uses.

A lot of kids trying vainly to pump the value of their bags mixed with ongoing development - what's not in the "news" is a generally a bit more interested, especially within financial infrastructure such as xborder settlement, stock exchanges and so on. Some are in-house, some are built on crypto like Eth - nearly all in the testbed/experimental phases at the mo - next few years should be interesting

Do you hold any crypto at all?

Whelo79

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Such an exciting time with more announcements about exciting new future adoptions. Its weird the way there still hasn't been any viable uses though. Just lots of exciting optimistic predictions about future uses.

Welcome back from your 2 week ban. It must have been killing you not to be able to post in here the last few days.

Pussyhands

Dohnjoe wrote: »

A lot of kids trying vainly to pump the value of their bags mixed with ongoing development - what's not in the "news" is a generally a bit more interested, especially within financial infrastructure such as xborder settlement, stock exchanges and so on. Some are in-house, some are built on crypto like Eth - nearly all in the testbed/experimental phases at the mo - next few years should be interesting

Do you hold any crypto at all?

I hold crypto (lost like 80% of value) but I fail to see anything that's going to make prices increase.

Yeah blockchain technology will be implemented but a coin is not a share.

grindle

Pintman Paddy Losty
presents
'Early Days of Everything'

Amazon

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

It's weird the way they only sell books though. Just lots of exciting optimistic predictions about future expansion into almost every other product and domination of the online retail market while slowly trudging towards domination of IRL retail too.

Apple

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

It's weird the way they sell intuitive devices though. Just lots of exciting optimistic predictions about intuitive devices becoming some sort of norm.

Microsoft

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

It's weird the way they want every business and home to have a PC though. Just lots of exciting optimistic predictions about PCs residing in almost every building across the globe running their software.

Facebook

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

It's weird the way they only connect people virally through college in the US though. Just lots of exciting optimistic predictions about future social interconnectivity across the world.

Credit card

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

It's weird the way there's no physical cash though. Just lots of exciting optimistic predictions about digitising money and allowing pre-approved loans via a card.

Telephone

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

It's weird the way you have to talk to a disembodied voice though. Just lots of exciting optimistic predictions about worldwide communication.

Car

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

It's weird the way they don't have legs though. Just lots of exciting optimistic predictions about travelling distances in a quick and convenient manner without the animal or human dying from exhaustion or a lack of time left on the planet.

Fire

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

It's weird the way it only heats things up though. Just lots of exciting optimistic predictions about warmth, an ability to survive desparate climates, an ability to make food last longer, the ability to harness the power of that energy through combustion thus providing efficient and powerful means of production.

Pintman Paddy Losty

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

It's weird the way he ignores (twice) provided examples of real world use though. Just lots of incoherent pessimism about a technology in it's infancy that requires security above all else with 6-12 month long testnets as a standard yet he thinks it should work as if finished and fully scalable as soon as a thought farts through a single developer's brain because he hasn't a notion what kind of holy grail it is to build secure software.

You do you Paddy, your ramblings will make for a fun scrapbook in a few years.

Pussyhands wrote: »

I hold crypto (lost like 80% of value) but I fail to see anything that's going to make prices increase.

Yeah blockchain technology will be implemented but a coin is not a share.

If you don't think the coins you have will be widely utilised in a few years, you shouldn't own those coins - you're correct that most are not any kind of share but utilisation would drive the price up.

JohnnyFlash

IOTA down to 14th on CMC. Behind my favourite coin, Tron. And behind ethereum classic which has no developers and no transactions.

Pintman Paddy Losty

grindle wrote: »

Pintman Paddy Losty
presents
'Early Days of Everything'

Amazon


Apple


Microsoft


Facebook


Credit card


Telephone


Car


Fire


Pintman Paddy Losty


You do you Paddy, your ramblings will make for a fun scrapbook in a few years.




If you don't think the coins you have will be widely utilised in a few years, you shouldn't own those coins - you're correct that most are not any kind of share but utilisation would drive the price up.

Silly comparisons.

Amazon sold books at the start. Something to build from. Altcoins do sweet **** all.

Pintman Paddy Losty

Whelo79 wrote: »

Welcome back from your 2 week ban. It must have been killing you not to be able to post in here the last few days.

What are you on about horse? I wasn't banned for two weeks? I stopped posting here as I'm not the type to spend my time bragging saying I told you so as the price of all these sh1te coins plummeted. Not the type to brag.

Dohnjoe

Pussyhands wrote: »

I hold crypto (lost like 80% of value) but I fail to see anything that's going to make prices increase.

Which was basically the same sentiment in 2014, 2015, 2016, then in 2017 crypto went up 1000's of percent

Real-use, adoption and tech arguments aside, people repeatedly underestimate the demand for this type of speculative free market based on "digital bead" scarcity

Maybe this time it will finally die, and never recover.. or maybe it will continue do what it's been doing for years

Whelo79

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

What are you on about horse? I wasn't banned for two weeks? I stopped posting here as I'm not the type to spend my time bragging saying I told you so as the price of all these sh1te coins plummeted. Not the type to brag.

So a couple of posts below this one you weren't banned for 2 weeks no?

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057819196/226/#post107684048

A mod just said you were banned for 2 weeks, didn't follow through but you just took 2 weeks off anyway?

At least your trolling gets punished on other forums.

Pintman Paddy Losty

Whelo79 wrote: »

So a couple of posts below this one you weren't banned for 2 weeks no?

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057819196/226/#post107684048

A mod just said you were banned for 2 weeks, didn't follow through but you just took 2 weeks off anyway?

At least your trolling gets punished on other forums.

I was banned from MMA. Nothing to stop me posting here if I wanted. But as I said I'm not one to gloat.

I happen to think the mods on this forum do an excellent job of keeping the peace between true believers and rational sceptics like myself and Johnny. Discussion is allowed to flow.

Dohnjoe

What do people make of GVT? platform going live October, 3 months ahead of schedule

grindle

Dohnjoe wrote: »

What do people make of GVT? platform going live October, 3 months ahead of schedule

Great idea, good for the lazy investor only interested in scalping quick fiat returns as long as you pick a good fund manager. Hopefully some big name managers high on bravado get attracted to it so they can peacock.
It'll be interesting to see how it's market evens out when there's a bull market again as some will want to hold onto their GVT while it's on the rise so they can sell whatever news there may be rather than having it stuck in a manager's fund where it might generate losses or (relative to crypto) paltry profits.
Still well above ICO price and patience wears thin in crypto so if the platform launches like a wet fart it could result in even more significant losses for current buyers.
I'm curious how they're stretching their ICO funds as they didn't raise much - if they sold ETH near the peak then they have a nice warchest but if they sold nearer to ICO or if they still have that ETH lying around they've only got a couple of million dollars to work with which is a couple of year's wages, a couple of exchange listing fees and a small amount left for marketing.

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

rational

Rational? There isn't any reasoning happening with ye two, it's just a wall of "Nah, it's bad, won't read up on it or take in any information which opposes my own views".
That's the opposite of rational.

For the average crypto enthusiast throwing their money into the pit the thought process should be "I like this project a lot, I see that there's a need for decentralisation in this sphere because that industry is currently overburdened with corrupt practices, gatekeepers or high maintenance rent-seeking bean-counters whose jobs will be automated away - I think others might see the benefit & it could gain traction within a few years so I'll chance my arm and place my bet on adoption."
That's rational, they're reasoning their way towards some form of conclusion. Same thing for projects they don't throw money into.

How are ye rational? Ye're convinced that everything's a Ponzi despite token economics being simple supply and demand. Token Y eventually gets widespread use? Great, you've placed a good bet because consistent demand for a scarce asset raises the price. Token Z never gets used? Bad bet, oh well. Ponzis don't work that way at all, there's never going to be an equilibrium price a Ponzi settles at where the service gets used, customers remain unaffected and life trundles happily onward.

Every interested Fortune 500 company and the rest below them who're piloting the tech or joining alliances are in the wrong according to ye, or they'll fork whatever project they like and somehow impossibly retain the core benefit/s of blockchain (decentralisation, trustlessness). This is clearly irrational, it's just an expensive and slow shared database if they're not interested in the core features of a blockchain. You don't value those features but businesses are inclined to want less fraud, tampering and they love cutting costs, automating menial tasks, traceability.
It's rational for businesses to want those features. It's rational for everybody to want those features unless they're the defrauder or the person who carries out menial accounting/auditing tasks. The price of progress.

Best to update your definition of "rational" because it does not implicitly mean "naysaying" or "barely coherent", it requires you to look at negatives and positives and come to a conclusion which could be negative or positive based on analysis.
If you were rational you'd be able to list off all the positives of blockchain, recognise why it's being viewed more and more as an eventual necessity to balance against human faults AND you still get to point out scams! It'd be win/win for all of us.

Dohnjoe

>I'm curious how they're stretching their ICO funds as they didn't raise much - if they sold ETH near the peak then they have a nice warchest but if they sold nearer to ICO or if they still have that ETH lying around they've only got a couple of million dollars to work with which is a couple of year's wages, a couple of exchange listing fees and a small amount left for marketing.

I've seen this question asked a few times to the GVT team - they repeatedly claim they have enough to keep everything covered. They've also run a centralised project with around 80 fin. clients, plus have contacts with several hundred brokers from previous business - so they aren't exactly new to all this.

As for the platform, it could fizzle out or it could take off. It's more "tangible" than many other projects and has a definitive aim and solid goals. I see it as a long-shot startup - and the low price, low cap is attractive, as well as the access to the coin on Binance. I'll be curious to see how the market reacts with the actual launched product

TallyRand

makeorbrake wrote: »

Clearly the majority are rubbish and will end up on the scrap heap. However, there are some decent projects knocking about too...albeit early doors.

It's the valuation of these projects that I struggle with. I think you've got it right Dohnjoe re. psychologically arrived at valuations. There's no way they would raise similar levels of funding in conventional markets. I would like to take a punt on a couple but I feel this correction needs to happen first.

What “early doors” projects do you like? Not directing this at you personally but seems a lot more vagueness in crypto fans manner lately, the self assured certainy has faded, genuine outside voyeur of this forum but you guys are starting to sound more like Johnny flash by the day.

grindle

TallyRand wrote: »

...seems a lot more vagueness in crypto fans manner lately, the self assured certainy has faded, genuine outside voyeur of this forum but you guys are starting to sound more like Johnny flash by the day.

Crypto pricing is inherently vague. Of course everybody was irrationally exuberant in December, most were up 1000% or much much more. Crypto fans should be critical of every project they put money into, I have some coins that are still up 3000% and others that have dropped 60-95% - they're still being worked on and have launches forthcoming but watching 95% of your ETH vanish is disheartening and a game for the patient, even if you're up elsewhere.

makeorbrake

TallyRand wrote: »

Not directing this at you personally but seems a lot more vagueness in crypto fans manner lately, the self assured certainy has faded

You're misunderstanding I believe. The belief was in crypto. The belief is still in crypto. Here's a challenge for you - if you don't take me at my word - open up another thread and ask exactly that - has your belief in crypto waned? Be sure to specify the tech NOT the speculative sideshow.

I can assure you that crypto and (decentralised) blockchain are going to be part of this world in the future.

TallyRand wrote: »

genuine outside voyeur of this forum but you guys are starting to sound more like Johnny flash by the day.

People generally add intelligently to the discussion. I have always maintained that genuine, reasoned critique is good. The best way to prove a theory or a belief is to take the contrarian view. I've actually seen that play out on another irish forum where pro-crypto people were in the minority. Their (anti-crypto) challenging of assumptions helped me revise some of my beliefs. More recently, I believe that whilst many of the naysayers on that forum may still not believe in the utility of crypto, I don't think they're laughing about crypto anymore and they see that its not just a flash in the pan.
However, you will notice I mentioned 'reasoned' and 'genuine' in that. So...you can kindly disassociate me with the aforementioned individual as nothing could be further from the truth!

TallyRand wrote: »

What “early doors” projects do you like?

I'm monitoring as many as I can - although I don't feel I've done justice to more than a handful in that respect. There are others here who I believe have researched a wide spectrum of crypto's thoroughly - although I don't know how they do it! There are all sorts of ifs and buts - it will all come out in the wash.

You could have posed the same question to anyone who believed that life changing tech was coming on stream the time of the dot com boom and bust...but who would have picked the winners?

Tango One

Dogecoin up over 100% in a week.

TallyRand

Tango One wrote: »

Dogecoin up over 100% in a week.

The coin set-up as a gag? My god its all going to end in tears

Autochange

How about the announcement from Peoples Insurance Company of China who are one of the biggest in the world with 126 billion dollars in assets that they will embrace blockchain technology using Vechain as a partner

makeorbrake

TallyRand wrote: »

The coin set-up as a gag? My god its all going to end in tears

I can't speak to Dogecoin as I have not taken a deep dive into it. I think - even though yes it was setup as a joke - they were looking to carve out some sort of niche as an internet tipping facility. Beyond that, I've not paid any attention to it.

However, what is clear is that most altcoins will turn to dust. Those that have actual use case / utility will remain. It's entirely logical - there's no mystery in this.

So to qualify your statement....it may 'end in tears' for many altcoins, yes....but not all.

JJJJNR

Lads a bit confused about this one, when you transfer x from coinbase to another e.g. binance and your funds are in clearing are they held in clearing at the price you sent them at ?

grindle

JJJJNR wrote: »

Lads a bit confused about this one, when you transfer x from coinbase to another e.g. binance and your funds are in clearing are they held in clearing at the price you sent them at ?

If you send 20 ShítcoinX from Coinbase to Binance you'll receive 20 ShítcoinX minus the withdrawal fee to Binance.
It's value outside of that makes little to no difference until you sell ShítcoinX for ShítcoinY on Binance.