Army coup to take place in Dublin today

For Forks Sake

Braxton Poor Skulduggery wrote: »

And to the three lads murdered by another Irish soldier on Tibnin Bridge.

I had never heard of this before (granted I was 3 at the time), he should never have been released.

Hitman3000

corner of hells wrote:

Am i right to to say the the Irish army has lost the most soldiers in UNIFIL ? I think some were posting about 48 dead with France losing about 35 .

86 have died on overseas missions.
The largest death toll has been on the UNIFIL mission, 46 lost, it is also the longest theatre of operations the DF has served in.

arybvtcw0eolkf

DanMurphy wrote: »

The French Engineer Coy were in Naqoura but their Bn was in the hills.
I think four DSMs were won at Naqoura during the battle with the Militia in early 1979. I was there for that, and the one that followed it three weeks later.
Cushy spot ? Not in '78 /79 it wasn't!

I'm a red arse, didn't join until December 85 :P

arybvtcw0eolkf

DanMurphy wrote: »

Maj. Hadadd launched a propaganda campaign in 1979 (when he couldn't beat us on the ground) saying that the Irish were 'chasing Lebanese women and drunk all the time.'

The lying bastard, 'drunk all the time' ~ imagine that

Manic Moran

Braxton Poor Skulduggery wrote: »

We're not going down that road, we're not Americans. That crap is designed to brainwash soldiers into believing they're doing a good thing, their country treats them like hero's with the clapping, free entry into theater shows etc ~ then its easier to return those same troops back out into the field to kill humans again.

Oh, rubbish. The US military has been quite good at getting its soldiers to kill people for quite a few years without any such silliness. I'll be the first to say that it can get a bit out of hand, but your brainwashing comment is daft.

There are three major reasons for the current trend of... I guess I'll call it reverence.

Firstly, the 9/11 effect. All uniformed personnel suddenly started getting appreciated. Firefighters in particular are still getting such treatment. The cop narrative has been a bit tarnished recently. At the same time, the military also got included, as the folks to take on the fight. Think pearl harbor, and you won't be far off the attitude.

Secondly, there has been something of a sense of national guilt over how the members of the military were treated during and after Vietnam. A bit of over compensation, I think.

Thirdly, there has been a sort of social divide in the US between the military and citizenry. Until relatively recently, the concept of the citizen soldier was still strong in the US. Between the draft and people just doing a stint (the military is much less a career over here), there used to be a lot of military connection in the population. Nowadays, the portion of the population connected with the military is lower than it has ever been, it tends to be geographically restricted and a bit of a family tradition. Combine this with the fact that though the US military has been at war for the last 16 years, but the country has not been, and there is a definite and honest feeling that servicemen are doing what others won't do. I suspect that it is almost done out of a sense of shame that people are sending their countrymen out to do the fighting and dying in fairly godforsaken parts of the world while thet stand in line in Starbucks and go to the cinema. You will find quite a few articles about the increasing civilian/ military divide in the US if you look online.

There are other factors as well, but those are, I think, the three main reasons for the whole military appreciation thing over here. I do not accept that it is done for soldier morale, we don't need it. I think it is more about civilians making themselves feel better about themselves. Though there are some I encounter who are quite sincere about their thanks, often veterans themselves.

Jawgap

Braxton Poor Skulduggery wrote: »

We're not going down that road, we're not Americans. That crap is designed to brainwash soldiers into believing they're doing a good thing, their country treats them like hero's with the clapping, free entry into theater shows etc ~ then its easier to return those same troops back out into the field to kill humans again.

'Thank you for your service' is nice, but a decent wage would be nicer

When you're paid an allowance of €20 for performing a 24 hour duty doesn't make you feel your service is appreciated. Security Duty Allowance is the same as over time paid to a civilian.

Anyway the exercise yesterday. People would be surprised by just how much training all branches of the defence forces in preparation for all eventualities.

We're a tiny DF, way under funded and punching way above our weight.

I've loved the life, and my family has had members in military service since my great grandfather served with the RDF in WWI.. I'm the last in the line, none of my children will serve. There's no one in my family following me into military service ~ they both got real job

That's a bit of tongue in cheek. I didn't encourage them to join. I've always had to work two jobs to make ends meet and I didn't want that for my kids. They're both very successful in their chosen careers thankfully.

I've always admired the DF because I've a couple of uncles, long retired, who served (and another couple who are retired Irish Guards)......and their father was a soldier, and the great grandfather (wounded at First Mons with the Rangers) started it......

Usually before Christmas we have a big family get together and as sure as God made little green apples within 30 minutes of everyone getting there comment will be passed that no one from the 'current generation' of the family has pulled a uniform on ........then we'll remind them that growing up we were all told to go get proper jobs!

I think the DF are one of the major reasons we are able to punch way above our weight internationally, and if we want to be 'cynical' about our influence then that's as good a reason as any to properly fund them.

As for the US, all that "thank you for your service" nonsense, military discounts, free movie and sports tickets is, to be honest, utter b0ll0x in the context of VA funding. If the VA was properly funded then the tickets, the thank yous etc would, in my opinion, carry more sincerity.......as things stand it just looks like they're a poor substitute for paying the military a decent wage and looking after their wellbeing. However, that's my view as a civvy......serving or ex-military may have the correct view

ectoraige

end of the road wrote: »

thank you for your service.

Jesus, don't overdo it!

DanMurphy

cajonlardo wrote: »

Must have served with you Dan - I cleaned those streets ha ha

I found a poem about us soldiers cleaning up Dublin during that bin strike in a book a while back.
I'll send it to you in a pm if you want it.

Biggest lickspittle on boardz

Braxton Poor Skulduggery wrote: »

And to the three lads murdered by another Irish soldier on Tibnin Bridge.

What was the general feeling in the PDF at the time of the murders? Did the troops think McAleavey was a bad egg, or was he someone who snapped in a warzone and went mad?

I'd be interested in hearing what you thought about the whole thing.

Also, someone was telling me that a Panhard AML90 took out an Israeli tank at some point in the Leb, is that true or a bar room legend?

DanMurphy

The AML 90 took out an Israeli half-track manned by the DFF during the battle of At Tiri.
I wasn't there, but I believe it was 'one shot and all over!'

cajonlardo

DanMurphy wrote: »

I found a poem about us soldiers cleaning up Dublin during that bin strike in a book a while back.
I'll send it to you in a pm if you want it.

That would be great. There are 2 back to back episodes of reeling in the years and in the 1st we are shoveling snow and the 2 nd clearing Moore St. Same lad filmed in both episodes he probably tells the grandkids he was the only one doing any work

DanMurphy

Just pm'd you that poem!

cajonlardo

DanMurphy wrote: »

Just pm'd you that poem!

Got a laugh from that alright.
Along with the bus and fire service strikes there was a short petrol distributor strike where the company's drivers went on strike. Transport handled it and there was a lad nicknamed Yorkie and one of the civvies gave him a box of Yorkie bars that didn't last long . After I left , there was an ambulance strike and also a short period where they helped temporary shelter for homeless

arybvtcw0eolkf

Biggest lickspittle on boardz wrote: »

What was the general feeling in the PDF at the time of the murders? Did the troops think McAleavey was a bad egg, or was he someone who snapped in a warzone and went mad?

I'd be interested in hearing what you thought about the whole thing.

Also, someone was telling me that a Panhard AML90 took out an Israeli tank at some point in the Leb, is that true or a bar room legend?

At the time the force commander was French, he wanted to charge the bastard under French military law (which carried the death penalty) but we brought him home and charged him under Irish law unfortunately.

The AML90 fired on the M3 but it was a solid (non explosive) round through an abandoned Christian M3 half track.

Just to clear up some confusion (in case there's any), when people refer to the South Lebanese Army (SLA), the DFF (De Facto Forces) or the 'Christians they're talking essentially talking about the same people. All Christians and all Israeli backed, but not always equipt by them.

In the earlier days the Israeli's used M60's main battle tanks and some T55's which were up gunned to (I think) a 120mm barrel.. I'm not a tanker so I can't be absolutely certain. And a few very old Sherman tanks (seriously). And old Centurion's (later converted to command vehicles).

When the Merkava came into service the IDF never used any of the above, save for the Centurion command vehicles.

The Christians used M3 half tracks & M113 APC's, the IDF used the M113.

The Christians never had air power, neither of course did any of the Lebanese players. The Israeli's had complete control of the skies.

So it was easy to get confused lol.. The Lebanese armed forces weren't south of the Litani river when I was there, but DanMurphy may have had some experience with them.

MN and J, I'm not being ignorant but I'm not debating the American habit of clapping and saluting their returning troops/Vets (in this thread). I have my beliefs and you have yours, its a different discussion and I won't be swayed.

All the above are me drawing from my own experiences when I was there and things may and did change during different periods of the Israeli occupation of south Lebanon.

I'm not a tanker either, I've more experience being on the receiving end of them than looking and admiring them.

DanMurphy

The Transport lads done such a good job with the fuel deliveries they shamed the strikers back to work!
We've some lads working with the homeless who have been given Brickens Army Hospital?
Not much publicity about.

arybvtcw0eolkf

DanMurphy wrote: »

Just pm'd you that poem!

Do you happen to remember a song we had about 'Christian shells from Saff Al Howa (not the accurate spelling but I can't find it on a map)?.

I can only remember some of the words, but it was a great drinking song (of course Maj Haddad was telling lies about the drinking of course ).

There was another (went to the tune of Old McDonalds farm)

'Theres a shell in the air, there's a body in the wadi E-I-E-I-O' lol.

I'll be giving myself shell shock if I keep going down memory lane like this

arybvtcw0eolkf

DanMurphy wrote: »

The Transport lads done such a good job with the fuel deliveries they shamed the strikers back to work!
We've some lads working with the homeless who have been given Brickens Army Hospital?
Not much publicity about.

Yes, St.Bricins is opened up to the homeless. I think it started two years ago. They're not receiving medical attention (so far as I know) but they're sheltered and fed by the DF.

ohnonotgmail

Braxton Poor Skulduggery wrote: »

At the time the force commander was French, he wanted to charge the bastard under French military law (which carried the death penalty) but we brought him home and charged him under Irish law unfortunately.

The AML90 fired on the M3 but it was a solid (non explosive) round through an abandoned Christian M3 half track.

Just to clear up some confusion (in case there's any), when people refer to the South Lebanese Army (SLA), the DFF (De Facto Forces) or the 'Christians they're talking essentially talking about the same people. All Christians and all Israeli backed, but not always equipt by them.

In the earlier days the Israeli's used M60's main battle tanks and some T55's which were up gunned to (I think) a 120mm barrel.. I'm not a tanker so I can't be absolutely certain. And a few very old Sherman tanks (seriously). And old Centurion's (later converted to command vehicles).

When the Merkava came into service the IDF never used any of the above, save for the Centurion command vehicles.

The Christians used M3 half tracks & M113 APC's, the IDF used the M113.

The Christians never had air power, neither of course did any of the Lebanese players. The Israeli's had complete control of the skies.

So it was easy to get confused lol.. The Lebanese armed forces weren't south of the Litani river when I was there, but DanMurphy may have had some experience with them.

MN and J, I'm not being ignorant but I'm not debating the American habit of clapping and saluting their returning troops/Vets (in this thread). I have my beliefs and you have yours, its a different discussion and I won't be swayed.

All the above are me drawing from my own experiences when I was there and things may and did change during different periods of the Israeli occupation of south Lebanon.

I'm not a tanker either, I've more experience being on the receiving end of them than looking and admiring them.

Just a small correction. they were upgunned to the 105mm L7 used in the centurion and others.

arybvtcw0eolkf

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Just a small correction. they were upgunned to the 105mm L7 used in the centurion and others.

Cheers. I wasn't sure.

I've some photo's with some T55's with the original barrels (I think)





And here's an up gunned Sherman from 1989

ohnonotgmail

Braxton Poor Skulduggery wrote: »

Cheers. I wasn't sure.

I've some photo's with some T55's with the original barrels (I think)


And here's an up gunned Sherman from 1989

the T55s have the original barrel. like this one






The L7 has a bore evacuator half way down.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Cheers, those photos I have show me standing beside T55's in Lebanon and that's as close and personal as I've ever gotten to a tank lol.

Thanks for the info.

I've some internal photos but they're not scanned. I only took them because the radio's equiptment were AN/VRC 46 sets, which kinda surprised me inside a T55 turret.

arybvtcw0eolkf

I wonder if the posters who scoffed and mocked us still hold the same opinions that we do nothing.

ohnonotgmail

Braxton Poor Skulduggery wrote: »

Cheers, those photos I have show me standing beside T55's in Lebanon and that's as close and personal as I've ever gotten to a tank lol.

Thanks for the info.

I've some internal photos but they're not scanned. I only took them because the radio's equiptment were AN/VRC 46 sets, which kinda surprised me inside a T55 turret.

probaby made it easier to talk to their israeli commanders

corner of hells

Braxton Poor Skulduggery wrote: »

I wonder if the posters who scoffed and mocked us still hold the same opinions that we do nothing.

I doubt it , but who cares

arybvtcw0eolkf

corner of hells wrote: »

I doubt it , but who cares

Just curious really. Tbh I could care less.

I'm proud of my service both at home and abroad.

Hitman3000

Braxton Poor Skulduggery wrote:

Just curious really. Tbh I could care less.

The comments you see wrote on threads such as this would never be said to your face. That's been my experience.

Braxton Poor Skulduggery wrote:

I'm proud of my service both at home and abroad.

As you should be.

ohnonotgmail

Hitman3000 wrote: »

The comments you see wrote on threads such as this would never be said to your face. That's been my experience.


.

I'm not surprised. Have you seen the size of him in those pics?

RobbingBandit

I call the role of arch duke, I so wanna die and all that. But no war afterwards swearsy realsy

DanMurphy

Braxton Poor Skulduggery wrote: »

I wonder if the posters who scoffed and mocked us still hold the same opinions that we do nothing.

Just last night it was said (in my presence) that the Irish Army was full of people who wanted to be 'at the safe end of soldiering, without any risk'!

A belief held by all present in the company I was in.

'Tis pointless arguing with ignorance.

Sofiztikated

DanMurphy wrote: »

Just last night it was said (in my presence) that the Irish Army was full of people who wanted to be 'at the safe end of soldiering, without any risk'!

A belief held by all present in the company I was in.

'Tis pointless arguing with ignorance.

It's probably down to the fact we haven't been in "a war."

Being honest, as a layman, I'd rather people were a bit ignorant of our army than overly aware because we were always embroiled in war. But it's not my career, and I know how infuriating it can be when people don't know what it is that you actually do.