Saorview frequencies reshuffle (700 MHz clearence)

ILikeBoats

Has this reshuffle caused me to lose the Northern Irish channels on saorview?
Any way to get them back without a box?

I'm in Skerries.

Pretty annoying

joeysoap

Thanks Cush

according to that I’m not missing BBC4 or Channel+1HD.

Can’t remember ever having them.

I do appear to have bb4 after all. Not where I expected though on LG 9, on Panasonic 134.

castle2012

ILikeBoats wrote: »

Has this reshuffle caused me to lose the Northern Irish channels on saorview?
Any way to get them back without a box?

I'm in Skerries.

Pretty annoying

Not sure what's going on .it's like they never switched off the transmitter and never turned back on

lgs 4

I don't see oneone reporting any DTT problems from Wales

The Cush

joeysoap wrote: »

according to that I’m not missing BBC4 or Channel+1HD.

Can’t remember ever having them.

The prediction will be based on certain parameters such as aerial, aerial height, location etc and may not take into account local obstacles/conditions. The Saorview predicted coverage I believe is based on an outdoor in-group aerial mounted 10m agl (above ground level). So the prediction of what's available can vary depending on your installation.

Elvis Hammond

BBC Receptionsearch reports Kilkeel HD channels as having been off air due to a fault from 1.14PM until 6.49PM, with previous 'essential engineering' having been completed at 1.14PM.

castle2012

Elvis Hammond wrote: »

BBC Receptionsearch reports Kilkeel HD channels as having been off air due to a fault from 1.14PM until 6.49PM, with previous 'essential engineering' having been completed at 1.14PM.

Interesting must be a major problem with it still not back

pluto_322

I was receiving a perfect Freeview signal (on Ch 28 & 22) from Brougher and Saorview from Holywell hill. On updating Freeview today to 29 & 31, I'm now getting an unwatchable signal on 29 (strength 100%; quality 1% - 9%) and nothing on ch 31 or 37. Living in Donegal - north of Holywell and Derry transmitters and wondering if interference is being caused by Derry (using the same frequencies: 29; 31 & 37 horizontal) or Holywell, still using 30 & 33 - in addition to new slots on 22 & 25. Any ideas from technical folk would be welcome.

The Cush

castle2012 wrote: »

Interesting must be a major problem with it still not back

No reported faults now according to the BBC Reception search, use a local postcode e.g. BT34 4HW

Elvis Hammond

pluto_322 wrote: »

I was receiving a perfect Freeview signal (on Ch 28 & 22) from Brougher and Saorview from Holywell hill. On updating Freeview today to 29 & 31, I'm now getting an unwatchable signal on 29 (strength 100%; quality 1% - 9%) and nothing on ch 31 or 37. Living in Donegal - north of Holywell and Derry transmitters and wondering if interference is being caused by Derry (using the same frequencies: 29; 31 & 37 horizontal) ...

Wonder no more; of course that's the cause. You'll have to go with Limavady, I suppose.

kazoo106

The fact that Kilkeel and Camlough are now on the same frequency (and not even on an SFN) will kill this service down the east coast - both sites produce similar signals south and the Grid antennas sold by TV installers down there in the 80's / 90's will just not have the separation as they have a wide acceptance angle.
Add into the mix, RTE on adjacent channels and it also could be all over for you !

Elvis Hammond

kazoo106 wrote: »

Divis on channel 30 is over in North Louth and huge chunks of Armagh too for that matter. We tried everything today from phased arrays of log periodic antennas to using huge office blocks as a shield and no joy. It seems that even having three rock coming in even 28db under Divis is enough to just kill it. Ofdm resilience my ass.

How did you measure this?

Rick_

I have an engineer coming out on Saturday to have a look at my set-up, hopefully we can get the 8 Divis MUX's and the new Clermont MUX's all working again.

SRB

Reception of all Clermont MUX's here in Portaferry was unwatchable by late evening. I'd expect issues with the newer two as they are now out of band of both my aerial and amp, but while they were fine when they first appeared the signal was constantly dropping, relocking and dropping by late evening. The two on 52 and 56 are also doing the same, after being rock solid since switch over. I'm guessing they are being hit by co channel interference, will look into it a bit further at the weekend.

PFMC84 wrote: »

I have an engineer coming out on Saturday to have a look at my set-up, hopefully we can get the 8 Divis MUX's and the new Clermont MUX's all working again.

castle2012

By the looks of it .any one who was enjoying killkeel , the whole east coast has been knocked out

Elvis Hammond

PFMC84 wrote: »

I have an engineer coming out on Saturday to have a look at my set-up, hopefully we can get the 8 Divis MUX's and the new Clermont MUX's all working again.

Re. the Clermont muxes: would your setup have been done to allow reception of the pre-switchover Divis mux on ch.48? If that's the case, the new channels from CC won't be getting through, so you'll need the diplexer changed.

The existing diplexer might do for including a chs. 51 & 60 feed, though 51 would be near its split point. It would certainly work for 55 & 56, after March.

Rick_

Yes, I believe it was. On doing a signal test nothing comes through on 42 and 45 currently. Nothing either on 51 or 60 but as you say I think the diplexer we have is allowing 21-48 from Divis and 49-68 from Clermont as this would have allowed all analogue and digital signals from both transmitters to come through pre-switchover and everything after switchover up until yesterday.

Hopefully its just a case of a different diplexer(s) needed and we don't have to go changing aerials, but if the aerial we have for Clermont is CD then it won't get 42 and 45 (and the potential future MUX's in the 30's) so will have to get at least one new aerial I suppose...?

Elvis Hammond

PFMC84 wrote: »

... if the aerial we have for Clermont is CD then it won't get 42 and 45 (and the potential future MUX's in the 30's) so will have to get at least one new aerial I suppose...?

The group C/D aerial should be fine for chs. in the 40s.

Rick_

I'm not 100% certain it is CD but considering only 52, 56, 66, and 68 were needed (at the time) I doubt the aerial installer would have put anything else up there instead. So, even though it is designed for 48 upwards, it will still pickup 42 and 45?

Unless it's a group E aerial, I can't see the tips to help identify it and it probably is covered in soot from whenever we had a coal fire!

The Cush

PFMC84 wrote:

It's odd that, if RTÉ is being broadcast on a NI Mux and they are using DVB-T2 for it, that they don't just broadcast them in HD like they do on Saorview. If they can't transmit the VM channels then why not give RTÉ 1+1 and RTÉ 2+1 instead together with the news channel and kids channel. Just having the 3 TV channels and in SD seems a bit of a waste.

@PFMC84 - I assume this is you posting over on DS. Just to answer this here as that thread is a bit dead.

There isn't any wasted space on the NImux, it is basically full. It is using very robust parameters to ensure the best coverage of it channels from a limited number of transmitters.

The mux capacity as a result of using those parameters is 9.8 Mbps. The Saorview DVB-T muxes have a capacity of 24.1 Mbps while the Freeview DVB-T2 mux capacity is 40 Mbps.

The 3 TV channels on that mux broadcast at an SD resolution of 704x576 I believe, a higher resolution than TG4/VM channels on Saorview, 544X576.


NImux live bitrate measurement - http://www.digitalbitrate.com/dtv.php?liste=1&live=19&lang=en&mux=NIMUX-BLACK-MOUNTAIN

kazoo106

Elvis Hammond wrote: »

How did you measure this?

Measured 3 rock dignal before the change of freq on a spectrum analyser

Hotblack Desiato

The Cush wrote: »

The 3 TV channels on that mux broadcast at an SD resolution of 704x576 I believe, a higher resolution than TG4/VM channels on Saorview, 544X576.

So NI Mux viewers of TG4 get better PQ than viewers on Saorview!

Unbelieveable.

Elvis Hammond

kazoo106 wrote: »

Measured 3 rock dignal before the change of freq on a spectrum analyser

Would you not need Divis in the absence of 3R as well though?

Iderown

The receiving setup is maybe a bit untypical.

Two aerials, each aerial feeding just one TV with its recording box. They are all standard definition.


The lower aerial is aimed at Divis, it is group A horizontal, and has a good response to NI Mux from Black Mountain. No problems getting the couple of channel changes done.


The upper aerial is aimed at Clermont Carn, it is group CD vertical and has a 15(?)db signal amplifier further down the mast. This feeds a separate recording box and TV. No problems with the new RTE channels on 42V and 45V. The Divis signals sneak in along with the Clermont Carn channels.



I had been a bit concerned that a local low-power relay at Conlig (42V and 45V) would interfere. It is in the line-of-sight between here and Clermont Car. But, no problems from it. Conlig's radiation pattern is directed away from Bangor.


So, happy here. No roof climbing or aerial replacement needed. We await mobile phone signals and their possible interference.

Elvis Hammond

Iderown wrote: »

I had been a bit concerned that a local low-power relay at Conlig (42V and 45V) would interfere. It is in the line-of-sight between here and Clermont Car. But, no problems from it. Conlig's radiation pattern is directed away from Bangor.

Conlig changed to 32, 34, & 35.

castle2012

So looks like the north east of the country has been really badly affected by the changes .I have lost all my uk stations .what a shame

kazoo106

Elvis Hammond wrote: »

Would you not need Divis in the absence of 3R as well though?

Yes - Divis signal is there now - 27db stronger than what 3 rock was - but no lock

Digifriendly

Iderown wrote: »

The receiving setup is maybe a bit untypical.

Two aerials, each aerial feeding just one TV with its recording box. They are all standard definition.


The lower aerial is aimed at Divis, it is group A horizontal, and has a good response to NI Mux from Black Mountain. No problems getting the couple of channel changes done.


The upper aerial is aimed at Clermont Carn, it is group CD vertical and has a 15(?)db signal amplifier further down the mast. This feeds a separate recording box and TV. No problems with the new RTE channels on 42V and 45V. The Divis signals sneak in along with the Clermont Carn channels.



I had been a bit concerned that a local low-power relay at Conlig (42V and 45V) would interfere. It is in the line-of-sight between here and Clermont Car. But, no problems from it. Conlig's radiation pattern is directed away from Bangor.


So, happy here. No roof climbing or aerial replacement needed. We await mobile phone signals and their possible interference.

Are you picking up all the Divis muxes including Com 7/8 in their new RFs?

Elvis Hammond

kazoo106 wrote: »

Yes - Divis signal is there now - 27db stronger than what 3 rock was - but no lock

But isn't there a good chance the 3R signal is adding to Divis, making it look stronger than it actually is? What was ch.29 like?

Digifriendly wrote: »

Are you picking up all the Divis muxes including Com 7/8 in their new RFs?

Near the start of the post you quoted: 'They are all standard definition'.

Are you not getting these muxes yourself? Do you have a CC aerial diplexed with your Divis one?

kazoo106

No - using just a dipole, 3rock is actually 10db stronger than Divis - and here in lies the difficulty with crap front to back ratios
29 was the same signal as now on 30.

DTT just hates an interfering signal as was demonstrated 6 weeks ago during a tropo lift when temporary Com Muxes in Britain on 52 and 56 even caused problems for Clermont carn in Dundalk.

Regarding the Kilkeel / Camlough issue - no reason why these sites can not be run as an SFN - Like what 3rock and Kippure were back in 2012 - this would solve the whole problem - however, seeing as the area of overlap is ONLY in Leinster, then there's about as much hope of this happening as RTE going HD on the NIMM - unless of course someone can pluck a quote out of the Good Friday Agreement, something the opposite of TG4 for BBC2 NI