Saorview frequencies reshuffle (700 MHz clearence)

TAFKAlawhec

First thanks to The Cush for directing me to the information available from Comreg - in turn I'm listing a table of frequencies that will be used for the Irish DTT network (aka Saorview) once the clearance of the 700MHz band has been completed which is expected to commence in September 2019 and be completed in March 2020.

In this table are all the frequencies cleared for sites in agreement with the UK authorities (Ofcom). Indicated are (where necessary) where the current two Saorview multiplexes are being moved to, allocations for a potential third & fourth multiplex from each site as well as another two frequencies for a fifth & sixth multiplex were it to ever materialise. Basically, any Saorview transmissions between channels 49 and 59 are getting shifted to make way for more mobile phone spectrum for 4G/5G technologies, therefore any transmitter or relay site which has one or two Saorview multiplexes in this channel range will require a retune at least; in some cases an aerial change may be needed.

All sites have at least six frequencies cleared. A few have either seven or nine frequencies cleared. Information is listed under the following headers...

Transmitter: self explanatory.

Current: The two frequencies between 21 - 59 presently used for Saorview transmissions at that site, Mux 1 named first then Mux 2.

Future: The two frequencies between 21 - 48 that the site will use to broadcast both current Saorview multiplexes; these are not necessarily listed in multiplex order

Mux 3: In the event of a possible third Saorview multiplex being launched, this is the frequency assigned by Comreg at this site (subject to change).

Mux 4: In the event of a possible fourth Saorview multiplex being launched, this is the frequency assigned by Comreg at this site (subject to change).

Muxs 5 & 6: Should we ever get a 5th & 6th multiplex up and going, these are the (at least) two frequencies assigned to each site (subject to change).

ERP kW: The maximum effective radiated power for each multiplex that has been cleared to radiated from the site, in kilowatts - in some cases the in service maximum ERP will be lower e.g. Three Rock & Kippure are cleared for 125kW, but both at present radiate at half that power.

Polarity: Either Horizontal or Vertical. As far as I can tell, there are no polarity changes from current transmissions.

Notes: Additional notes for each site wherever viewers for each site should expect no change in transmission parameters to affect them (at least for the current two Saorview multiplexes), wherever a retune is required, and wherever an aerial change may be necessary (in some cases current grouped aerials may be fine but this may change if a 4th, 5th or 6th multiplex is launched).

For a few relay sites no details are currently available, this is because these sites were low powered and far enough away from the UK and France not to require international coordination - such sites using frequencies between 49 to 59 will require retuning that should be announced in due course.

*** SAORVIEW 700 MHZ REPLAN ***

Transmitter            Current        Future        Mux 3    Mux 4    Muxs 5/6    ERP kW    Polarity    Notes

Carin Hill            47 & 44        44 & 47        41        28        25 & 22        160        Hor            No change expected/Group B -> K for Muxs 4-6

Clermont Carn        52 & 56        42 & 45        39        36        33 & 48        160        Ver            Aerial Change C/D -> B or K

Dungarvan            55 & 59        32 & 34        35        44        41 & 47        10        Hor            Aerial Change C/D -> A or K

Holywell Hill        30 & 33        22 & 25        28        23        26 & 30        20        Hor            Retune required

Kippure                54 & 58        34 & 35        32        48        22/25/28    125        Hor            Aerial Change C/D -> A or K

Maghera                48 & 55        46 & 48        40        43        32/34/35    160        Hor            Aerial Change C/D -> B or K

Mt. Leinster        23 & 26        23 & 26        29        30        31 & 37        160        Hor            No change expected

Mullaghanish        21 & 24        21 & 24        27        22        25 & 28        200        Hor            No change expected

Spur Hill            45 & 49        39 & 45        42        37        30 & 31        50        Hor            Retune required/Group B -> K for Muxs 5 & 6

Three Rock            30 & 33        30 & 33        26        23        36 & 48        125        Hor            No change expected/Group A -> K for Muxs 5 & 6

Truskmore            53 & 57        42 & 45        39        36        33 & 48        160        Hor            Aerial Change C/D -> B or K

Woodcock Hill        47 & 44        44 & 47        41        42        39 & 45        10        Hor            No change expected


*** RELAY STATIONS ***

Transmitter            Current        Future        Mux 3    Mux 4    Muxs 5/6    ERP kW    Polarity    Notes

Achill                47 & 44        44 & 47        41        36        33 & 48        10        Ver            No change expected/Group A -> K for Muxs 5 & 6

Aranmore            47 & 44        44 & 47        41        40        43/46/32/34/35 4    Ver            No change expected/Group B -> K if 32/34/35 are used

Arklow                21 & 24        21 & 24        27        22        25 & 28        0.5        Ver            No change expected

Ballina                58 & 50        23 & 26        30        29        31 & 37        0.1        Ver            Aerial change C/D -> A

Ballybofey            47 & 44        44 & 47        41        40        43 & 46        0.1        Ver            No change expected

Bandon                47 & 44        44 & 47        41        33        36 & 48        0.05    Hor            No change expected/Group B -> K for Mux 4

Bantry                52 & 56        **                                                            No details given (Retune & C/D aerial change required)

Cahir                28 & 25        22 & 28        25        27        21 & 24        0.1        Ver            Retune required

Casla                45 & 41        **                                                            No details given

Castlebar            22 & 25        22 & 25        28        23        26 & 30        10        Hor            No change expected

Castletownbere        55 & 59        40 & 43        46        35        32 & 34        10        Ver            Aerial change C/D -> B or K

Clifden                26 & 23        **                                                            No details given

Clonakilty            48 & 52        48 & 46        43        40        33 & 36        0.05    Hor            Aerial change C/D -> B or K

Clonmany            53 & 49        39 & 42        45        40        43 & 46        0.02    Ver            Aerial change C/D -> B

Clonmel                55 & 59        **                                                            No details given (Retune & C/D aerial change required)

Cnoc an r            47 & 44        **                                                            No details given

Collins Barracks    50 & 40        32 & 34        35        41        44 & 47        0.16    Ver            Aerial change Group B -> A or K

Crosshaven            46 & 56        41 & 46        44/47    36        33 & 48        0.5        Ver            Aerial change E -> K for Mux 6 - 44 & 47 both reserved for Mux 3

Dingle                30 & 26        **                                                            No details given

Dooncarton            27 & 32        27 & 32        34        35        21 & 24        0.5        Hor & Ver    No change expected

Drimoleague            42 & 39        39 & 42        45        26/32/34/35 23/30    0.5        Ver            No change expected/Group B -> K for poss Mux 4-6 - 26/32/34/35 all reserved for Mux 3

Drogheda            N/A            29 & 31        37        25        22 & 28        0.25    Ver            New site

Ennistimon            52 & 56        32 & 34        35        39        42 & 45        0.02    Hor            Aerial change C/D -> A or K

Fanad                55 & 59        43 & 46        40        41/44/47            2.5        Ver            Aerial change C/D -> B - 41/44/47 all reserved for Mux 4

Fermoy                52 & 56        33 & 36        48        45        39 & 42        0.05    Ver            Aerial change C/D -> K

Ferrypoint            47 & 52        40 & 43        46        33        36 & 48        0.05    Ver            Retune required/Group B -> K for Muxs 4-6

Forth Mt.            52 & 56        33 & 34        48        36        32 & 35        0.5        Ver            Aerial change/Group C/D -> K

Glanmire            47 & 52        47 & 44/41    44/41    33/36/40/43/46/48    0.2        Hor            Retune required - 44 & 41 either Muxs 2 or 3, six other freq cleared for Muxs 4-6

Glencolumcille        45 & 36        33 & 36        29/31/37        48            0.2        Hor            Aerial change B -> A or K - 29/31/37 all reserved for Mux 3

Glenties            46 & 50        32 & 34        35        48        33 & 36        0.1        Hor            Aerial change B -> A or K (K recommended)

Gorey                55 & 59        41 & 44        47        34        32 & 35        0.25    Hor            Aerial change C/D -> B or K

Greenore            43 & 40        41 & 44        47        37        29 & 31        0.4        Ver            Retune required/Group B -> K for Muxs 5 & 6

Greystones            52 & 56        42 & 45        39        36        33 & 48        0.5        Ver            Aerial change C/D -> B or K

Kilduff                52 & 56        31 & 37        33        36        30 & 48        25        Hor            Aerial change C/D -> B or K

Kilkeaveragh        47 & 44        **                                                            No details given

Kilmacthomas        46 & 49        43 & 46        40        41        44 & 47        0.01    Ver            Retune required

Kinsale                30 & 26        26 & 30        23        29/32    34 & 35        0.05    Ver            No change expected - 29 & 32 both reserved for Mux 4

Knockmoyle            52 & 56        **                                                            No details given (Retune & C/D aerial changed required)

Laragh                47 & 49        44 & 47        41        36        33 & 48        0.1        Hor            Retune required/Group B -> K for Muxs 5 & 6

Leap                46 & 48        46 & 48        43        40        33 & 36        0.02    Hor            No change expected/Group B -> K for Muxs 5 & 6

Letterkenny            53 & 57        39 & 42        45        36        33 & 48        2.5        Ver            Aerial change C/D -> B or K

Maamclassach        46 & 51        42 & 46        40        42        39 & 45        0.2        Ver            Retune required

Magheraroarty        22 & 27        22 & 27        25        23/28    26 & 30        0.5        Ver            No change expected - 23 & 28 both reserved for Mux 4

Malin                28 & 26        21/26/28    24        27        23 & 30        2        Hor            Possible retune? 21/26/28 all reserved for Muxs 1 & 2

Mitchelstown        40 & 43        **                                                            No details given

Monaghan            55 & 59        40 & 43        46        32        34 & 35        5        Hor            Aerial change C/D -> B or K

Moville                45 & 42        32 & 34        35        48        33 & 36        2        Hor            Aerial change B -> A or K

Mt. Gabriel            37 & 31        **                                                            No details given

Rosscarbery            53 & 57        32 & 34        35        33        36 & 48        0.05    Hor            Aerial change C/D -> A or K

Suir Valley            52 & 56        33 & 36        48        45        39 & 42        2        Ver            Aerial change C/D -> K

Timoleague            26 & 29        26 & 29        23        30/34    32 & 35        0.01    Ver            No change expected

Tonabrocky            26 & 23        **                                                            No details given

Waterford            22 & 25        22 & 25        28        27        24 & 21        0.5        Ver            No change expected

Wicklow                N/A            29 & 31        37        25        22 & 28        0.5        Ver            New site

Just to give some help with the notes...

No change expected: The current two Saorview multiplexes at this site are planned not to be changing frequency during the 700 MHz clearance (not counting any third or further multiplex launches).

Retune required: The current two Saorview multiplexes at this site will at least for one frequency be changed, however no receiving aerial changes are expected to be needed to receive them (not counting any third or further multiplex launches).

Aerial change X -> X (or K): Any grouped UHF receiving aerials (B, C/D or E) affected by a frequency reallocation may require to be changed to continue receiving Saorview services after March 2020. In cases where no frequency changes for Muxs 1 & 2 are made or just a retune is required, a potential third multiplex should also be able to be received in the same aerial group; muxs 4-6 however may lie outside the current aerial group for the site. In the majority of cases where group B, C/D or E aerials are in use and new allocations for muxs 1-3 are listed, existing aerials may work OK for frequencies that are only slightly out of band - however sites where Saorview multiplexes are currently in C/D frequencies and are being moved to Group A frequencies will in theory suffer the largest risk of failing to receive the new frequencies, but replacement should only really be needed in case of reception failure noted during the simulcast period.
Where it says "Aerial change X -> X or K", this means that changing the aerial to a new group will be fine for the first three multiplexes, but should muxs 4, 5 or 6 be enabled then a Group K aerial will likely be required to receive all multiplexes broadcast. Should you require an aerial change because of the frequencies at the site are being changed once the simulcast period at least is under way, best practice will be to install a Group K aerial unless you have either tricky reception conditions that might benefit from using a narrower Group aerial (A or , or are maybe diplexing with another UHF aerial to receive DTT services from Northern Ireland or Wales (Freeview).

In cases at sites where 7 or 9 frequencies have been cleared, there may be two or more frequencies indicated for a certain multiplex value.

Also not all six/seven/nine multiplexes from each site have equal radiation patterns, even though they are all cleared for the same maximum ERP. In theory Muxs 1 & 2 for the current Saorview services will occupy the "clearest" frequencies from each site that is the least likely to suffer from co-channel interference or from major directional restrictions. In most cases Mux 3 is cleared to share the same radiation properties/restrictions as Mux 1 & 2 do (there are a few exceptions, the main one being at Mount Leinster). However Muxs 4-6 may have more restrictive directional properties for transmitting, as well as more likely to be subject to co-channel interference.

Please note: I've compiled this only as information to be shared so Saorview viewers can know what to expect if they have to retune or in a few cases need a new receiving aerial - I'm not interested in this case about the likelyhood, wherever likely, unlikely or over **INSERT PERSON HERE** 's dead body, of future multiplexes actually being launched or broadcast on the Saorview platform.

If the layout above is confusing you, I've attached a .txt file of the details that should open nicely in Notepad or other text reader for your device.

TAFKAlawhec

P.S. If the above post appears blank to you, then click on the "legacy site" link near the top right corner of the page. You should hopefully then see it (there seems to be a problem in the new-ish boards.ie responsive skin that hides posts that contain items inside the "code" BBcode).

The Cush

For anyone interested the source document, Memorandum of Understanding to Co-Ordinate DTT Frequency Plans Between Ofcom and ComReg.

Go to the end of the agreement and click on the embedded links to access Annex 3 & 4
Annex 3 - Record of the co-ordination spreadsheet for the 700 MHz DTT clearance for Ireland - Tech03 IRL Final Rev65
Annex 4 - Record of the co-ordination spreadsheet for the 700 MHz DTT clearance for the United Kingdom - Tech04 UK Final 7v019

Johnboy1951

Thanks TAFKAlawhec ....... it appears some users will need to change their aerials if they presently have band-specific aerials.

Those with wide-band aerials should be ok?
Might need a filter?

byte

I wonder how much issue it could cause people using Group-T aerials (or those with WB aerials and a 4G filter)?

They may need new filters, depending on location and associated interference, I imagine

The Cush

TAFKAlawhec wrote: »

Also not all six/seven/nine multiplexes from each site have equal radiation patterns, even though they are all cleared for the same maximum ERP. In theory Muxs 1 & 2 for the current Saorview services will occupy the "clearest" frequencies from each site that is the least likely to suffer from co-channel interference or from major directional restrictions. In most cases Mux 3 is cleared to share the same radiation properties/restrictions as Mux 1 & 2 do (there are a few exceptions, the main one being at Mount Leinster). However Muxs 4-6 may have more restrictive directional properties for transmitting, as well as more likely to be subject to co-channel interference.

This is what 2RN said in a 2014 Comreg consultation submission (prior to DTT 700Mhz replanning) - "it would be prudent to expect and plan for at least 3, or possibly 4, high quality national multiplexes in Ireland. 2RN recognises that the Broadcasting Act 2009 specifies that 6 multiplexes must be accommodated. This requirement clearly needs revision, and while it contains no direct reference to spectrum, it was enacted at a time when the entire 470 to 862MHz band was available for broadcast use"

The current Broadcasting Act obliges ComReg to provide spectrum for a minimum number of DTT multiplexes. Two multiplexes for RTÉ and a minimum of four commercial muxes to be awarded by the BAI.

So basically what they've done is coordinate 6 multiplexes as required by the Broadcasting Act but give coverage priority for 3/4 multiplexes.

Digifriendly

Possible Mux 3 frequency for Clermont Carn (C39) would interfere with NIMM from Black Mountain which is on same frequency.

The Cush

Digifriendly wrote: »

Possible Mux 3 frequency for Clermont Carn (C39) would interfere with NIMM from Black Mountain which is on same frequency.

Black Mt. moves to UHF 33 at clearance.

TAFKAlawhec

The Cush wrote: »

This is what 2RN said in a 2014 Comreg consultation submission (prior to DTT 700Mhz replanning) - "it would be prudent to expect and plan for at least 3, or possibly 4, high quality national multiplexes in Ireland. 2RN recognises that the Broadcasting Act 2009 specifies that 6 multiplexes must be accommodated. This requirement clearly needs revision, and while it contains no direct reference to spectrum, it was enacted at a time when the entire 470 to 862MHz band was available for broadcast use"

The current Broadcasting Act obliges ComReg to provide spectrum for a minimum number of DTT multiplexes. Two multiplexes for RTand a minimum of four commercial muxes to be awarded by the BAI.

So basically what they've done is coordinate 6 multiplexes as required by the Broadcasting Act but give coverage priority for 3/4 multiplexes.

From gathering together what I've read in the various documents, The Republic of Ireland have adopted almost the same principle as used in the UK for declaring a network of three "PSB" multiplexes at each site with the higher coverage availability, with three "COM" multiplexes at each site where required with secondary coverage concerning co-channel interference as well as directional restrictions where needed.

In addition both authorities have agreed to adopt a common set of nine "group of three" frequencies at each site (with amendments at some sites) which are reflected in the spreadsheet files...

(Group) - (Frequencies)

1 - 21, 24, 27
2 - 22, 25, 28
3 - 23, 26, 30
4 - 29, 31, 37
5 - 32, 34, 35
6 - 33, 36, 48
7 - 39, 42, 45
8 - 40, 43, 46
9 - 41, 44, 47

The derogations...

3A - 23, 26, 29 (Mt. Leinster uses this)
4A - 30, 31, 37
6A - 32, 33, 48
7A - 40, 42, 45

So for example Three Rock has Group 3 frequencies for PSB and Group 6 for COM (though UHF33 currently used for Mux 2 is designated as a COM frequency rather than PSB), while for both Clermont Carn & Truskmore Group 7 is used for PSB multiplexes and Group 6 for COM.

I wouldn't be surprised if some more reshuffling is done at a few sites to move current Saorview multiplexes to different frequencies that they've been cleared for - IIRC Comreg don't seem to want to use channel 48 unless it's for a sixth multiplex (in a similar fashion to channel 60 not being presently used), so there's a good chance multiplex 1 from Maghera could change.

The Cush

TAFKAlawhec wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised if some more reshuffling is done at a few sites to move current Saorview multiplexes to different frequencies that they've been cleared for - IIRC Comreg don't seem to want to use channel 48 unless it's for a sixth multiplex (in a similar fashion to channel 60 not being presently used), so there's a good chance multiplex 1 from Maghera could change.

Only at Clermont Carn is there a restriction on UHF 48, where it'll only be used for a 6 mux plan and only then with 2 years advance notice to the UK. Three other sites will use it unrestricted on the 2 mux plan including Maghera, three further sites for Mux 3 and three for Mux 4.

Less restrictions on the use of UHF 48 in relation to the 700 MHz mobile network base stations in comparison to UHF 60 for the 800 MHz stations due to the location of the of the base station downlink in the band. In the 800 MHz band it sits just above UHF 60 but for the 700 MHz band it sits at the upper end of the band (the old UHF 57 upwards), well away from UHF 48.

The Cush

TAFKAlawhec wrote: »

In addition both authorities have agreed to adopt a common set of nine "group of three" frequencies at each site (with amendments at some sites) which are reflected in the spreadsheet files...

(Group) - (Frequencies)

1 - 21, 24, 27
2 - 22, 25, 28
3 - 23, 26, 30
4 - 29, 31, 37
5 - 32, 34, 35
6 - 33, 36, 48
7 - 39, 42, 45
8 - 40, 43, 46
9 - 41, 44, 47

The derogations...

3A - 23, 26, 29 (Mt. Leinster uses this)
4A - 30, 31, 37
6A - 32, 33, 48
7A - 40, 42, 45

The Dept of Communications mentioned this on their site

Irish planners have completed replanning to clear TV from the channels 49-60. They worked in conjunction with their UK colleagues on this task. On the whole the plan has 9 UHF channel groups, each with 3 channels. The Department expects that TV services will clear the channels 49-60 by April 2020, creating a second digital dividend. Associated with that will be much tighter reuse of frequency channels. The Department does not guarantee reception of TV services outside their core service area. Some households currently receiving UK TV signals from Northern Ireland or Wales will no longer be able to do so. This is because of transmissions from Irish TV transmitters in neighbouring areas.

https://www.dccae.gov.ie/en-ie/communications/topics/spectrum/digital-dividend/Pages/DTT-Spectrum.aspx

The Cush

As part of the DTT replan 2 new Saorview transmitter sites are required because of the reduction in coverage from existing transmitters due to tighter reuse of frequency channels.

The new transmitters are to cover Wicklow town and Drogheda. This and the Kippure height increase has been discussed in the UHF thread over the last 12 months or so. Drogheda coverage was of particular interest to lucernarian.

The proposed frequency plan for the 2 sites
Wicklow: UHF 29 & 31, Vertical, 500W
Drogheda: UHF 29 & 31, Vertical, 250W

Back on Oct 23rd planning applications were submitted to the Wicklow and Meath planning authorities for the new transmitter sites.

Wicklow Co Co: 171288

Development Description:
development consisting of: Telecommunications infrastructure comprising of; the replacement of an existing 23m lattice tower with antenna on top (approx. overall height 26m), with a 30 metre lattice tower (with antenna on top, overall height 32.7m), equipment cabin, cabinets, ancillary equipment, fencing and all associated site works. The development will form part of 2RN's digital terrestrial television (DTT) and radio broadcast infrastructure. It will also be made available to over interested parties; mobile telephone and broadband operators, private communications companies and the emergency services

Development Address:
Ballynabarney Td, Rathnew, Co. Wicklow

Meath Co Co: LB171233

Development Description:
the development will consist of telecommunications infrastructure comprising of; a 30m lattice tower (with antenna on top, overall height 32.7m), equipment cabin, cabinets. ancillary equipment, fencing, access track and all associated site works. The development will form part of 2RN's digital terrestrail television (DTT) and radio broadcast infrasfructure. It will also be made available to other interested parties; mobile telephone and broadband operators, private communications companies and the emergency services

Development Address:
Sheephouse Td., Donore, Droghdea, Co. Meath

The Wicklow site was given conditional permission last Friday.

The Meath site is still awaiting a decision which is due by Dec 17th. The OPW has submitted an objection to the proposed location of the mast due to it proximity to the Brú na Bóinne heritage sites and the Oldbridge Estate and Battle of the Boyne site.

The Cush

Tender published for the construction of the 2 new transmitter sites

Short description
17P087 2RN 16044SD - Greenfild Sites - Wicklow & Drogheda

Detailed description
The scope of this tender includes the construction of access tracks, compound, equipment plinths, supply and erection of towers cabins, plus any other civils requirement specified in the specification.

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=122785&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders

The Cush

The Cush wrote: »

Meath Co Co: LB171233

The Meath site is still awaiting a decision which is due by Dec 17th. The OPW has submitted an objection to the proposed location of the mast due to it proximity to the Brú na Bóinne heritage sites and the Oldbridge Estate and Battle of the Boyne site.

Permission refused. Reasons for refusal not published yet.

The Cush

Following the refusal of planning permission by Meath Co Co for a new mast covering Drogheda last Dec a new application was submitted to Louth Co Co in early March for a 30m mast at a site at Killineer, Drogheda, Co. Louth. Decision due May 1st.

Louth Co Co: 18170

Development Description:
PERMISSION for the erection of a 30-metre-high RTE Transmission Networks DAC communications tower with associated equipment attached and with equipment cabins and cabinets at ground level within a palisade fenced compound and new access track from an existing farm access.

Development Address:
Killineer, Drogheda, Co. Louth

The Cush

The Cush wrote: »

Following the refusal of planning permission by Meath Co Co for a new mast covering Drogheda last Dec a new application was submitted to Louth Co Co in early March for a 30m mast at a site at Killineer, Drogheda, Co. Louth. Decision due May 1st.

Louth Co Co: 18170

Conditional permission for the new Drogheda transmitter, decision made May 31st.

kazoo106

are Truskmore and Clermont Carn going to operate as an SFN ? - If not, there will be serious issues in parts of Cavan, Monaghan and Tyrone

TAFKAlawhec

kazoo106 wrote: »

are Truskmore and Clermont Carn going to operate as an SFN ? - If not, there will be serious issues in parts of Cavan, Monaghan and Tyrone

Differing polarities (Horizontal for Truskmore & Vertical for Clermont Carn) and aerial directivity will probably ensure that it won't be a big problem except in some isolated cases. There isn't a significant overlap of effective reception coverage of the two transmitting stations for Saorview at present except for maybe parts of the Sperrins.



Truskmore & Letterkenny are currently co-channel (53 & 57, vertical for Letterkenny) and on 2RN's coverage prediction map for a fair bit of western Tyrone it seems to suggest either Truskmore or Letterkenny at various spots that are quite close to each other yet personally I've never heard of Letterkenny affecting anyone's Truskmore reception locally.

lucernarian

The Cush wrote: »

The Cush wrote: »

Following the refusal of planning permission by Meath Co Co for a new mast covering Drogheda last Dec a new application was submitted to Louth Co Co in early March for a 30m mast at a site at Killineer, Drogheda, Co. Louth. Decision due May 1st.

Louth Co Co: 18170

Conditional permission for the new Drogheda transmitter, decision made May 31st.

Yes, there is a tower now in place not far from the M1 at Barnattan/Killineer. 4 UHF panels all pointing at Drogheda. Possibly a dipole mounted alongside for other directions, cant really see from where i was.

Not sure if they’re active or what ERPs are for that specific location. It’s not ideally placed to serve the parts of town closest to the river (apartment blocks and the like).

The Cush

lucernarian wrote: »

Not sure if they’re active or what ERPs are for that specific location. It’s not ideally placed to serve the parts of town closest to the river (apartment blocks and the like).

Officially due to go live early next September at 250 watts.

benmeade

Drogheda site was powered up 2 weeks ago.
A call to 2rn confirmed what i could see on my meter. Ch 22 and 25 are live but no test card as yet.

Mickey Mike

Does anyone know what's the story with Maghera, Co, Clare. Currently it's Ch. 48 and 55.

The Cush

Mickey Mike wrote: »

Does anyone know what's the story with Maghera, Co, Clare. Currently it's Ch. 48 and 55.

Post clearance it'll use UHF 46 & 48 at 160kW, Group K aerial.

The Cush

benmeade wrote: »

Drogheda site was powered up 2 weeks ago.
A call to 2rn confirmed what i could see on my meter. Ch 22 and 25 are live but no test card as yet.

The original plan from the 2017 coordination with the UK was UHF 29 & 31, plus UHF 37 Mux3, UHF 25 Mux4 and UHF 22/28 Mux5/6. This may have changed when the original planned site didn't receive planning permission.

larchill

benmeade wrote:

Drogheda site was powered up 2 weeks ago. A call to 2rn confirmed what i could see on my meter. Ch 22 and 25 are live but no test card as yet.

Is the Drogheda site interfering with Group A reception frim Divis in the Drogheda area? My Mother & Sister are both experiencing pixelation & squeaks on all Freeview programmes.

kazoo106

You'd be doing well to get Divis in Drogheda -are you sure?

benmeade

larchill wrote: »

Is the Drogheda site interfering with Group A reception frim Divis in the Drogheda area? My Mother & Sister are both experiencing pixelation & squeaks on all Freeview programmes.

Yes Divis is possible in parts of Drogheda and yes this new transmitter will be causing you issues.

Anyone using the rf2 output on sky digiboxes and using ch 21up to 30 have been wiped out also.

benmeade

benmeade wrote: »

Yes Divis is possible in parts of Drogheda and yes this new transmitter will be causing you issues.

Anyone using the rf2 output on sky digiboxes and using ch 21up to 30 have been wiped out also.

Heres a screenshot of my meter showing just how strong it is for anyone interested. Its what appears like a mountain to the left of the broken line which is ch40.

kazoo106

But this is showing Channel 40 - Am I missing something here?

benmeade

kazoo106 wrote: »

But this is showing Channel 40 - Am I missing something here?

The broken line is only ch40 and what you see on the screen is the whole band from vhf on the far left right through to uhf ch 70 on the far right. Its the complete terrestrial band on the screen.
Hope that helps

kazoo106

The problem will probably be that anything RX'ing off Divis in Drogheda will be amped and therefore the new RTE TX will be flattening everything. I have a full Divis compliment which I can send to you from 30k up the road - PM me for details

benmeade

Divis uses Horizontal polarity, the new transmitter is Vertical. Depending on your location and hopefully the new transmitter isn't in your direct line for Divis a couple of degrees left or right on your aerial might tip the balance in your favor. Good luck ;-)

TAFKAlawhec

Ultimately with the UHF broadcast spectrum being shrunk, and DVB-T able to tolerate stronger levels of co-channel and adjacent channel interference compared to its analogue equivalent, means that frequency reuse can be done geographically closer together without affecting too much of the primary coverage area of either station. The side effect of this however means that fringe reception starts taking a back seat - it's one of the reasons I understand that new transmitters in Drogheda and Wicklow are being brought into service, and why the NIMM in Northern Ireland is expanding its coverage with additional sites.

I'd say that these days unless you live in a fairly favourable location, then if you want reliable reception of UK TV services the best bet is either via free-to-air satellite or a subscription service like Sky or Virgin Media.

The Cush

The Dept of Communications has had this or similar notification on its website for approx. the last 5 years about the potential loss of overspill UK TV reception.

Irish planners have completed replanning to clear TV from the channels 49-60. They worked in conjunction with their UK colleagues on this task. On the whole the plan has 9 UHF channel groups, each with 3 channels. The Department expects that TV services will clear the channels 49-60 by April 2020, creating a second digital dividend. Associated with that will be much tighter reuse of frequency channels. The Department does not guarantee reception of TV services outside their core service area. Some households currently receiving UK TV signals from Northern Ireland or Wales will no longer be able to do so. This is because of transmissions from Irish TV transmitters in neighbouring areas

https://www.dccae.gov.ie/en-ie/communications/topics/spectrum/digital-dividend/Pages/DTT-Spectrum.aspx

.

Latest notice from the Dept in preparation for the transition to the new frequencies

Steps to take now in preparation for March 2020

In September 2019 DTT services in Northern Ireland will change their frequencies to those agreed in the new TV plan. DTT will use a much reduced amount of spectrum in this plan. It will be much harder to combine signals for UK and Irish DTT from two transmitter sites. Viewers should consider using Satellite systems to receive the Free to Air services available to viewers from many UK broadcasters.

Viewers receiving Saorview services on channels 52 and above will need to change aerial for continued reception of Saorview. Most other viewers should not need to change aerial to continue DTT reception from the same transmitter site. Some viewers might need to repoint their aerial thus changing the transmitter used for Saorview reception. They might need a new aerial to receive signals from a different transmitter.

Irish DTT will transmit on both the old and new frequencies between 4th September 2019 and 4th March 2020. After 4th March 2020 the old frequencies used since 2013 will cease. Viewers will need to have completed any required rescan by 4th March 2020. The Saorview website should have more information on this in September.

https://www.dccae.gov.ie/en-ie/communications/topics/spectrum/digital-dividend/Pages/Preparing-for-the-Digital-Diviidend.aspx

benmeade

TAFKAlawhec wrote: »

I'd say that these days unless you live in a fairly favourable location, then if you want reliable reception of UK TV services the best bet is either via free-to-air satellite or a subscription service like Sky or Virgin Media.

I agree, I can also see a big push to sell the saorview connect box in September.
I'd also recommend a tv with a satellite tuner for anyone considering updating their tv.

larchill

Thanks for the info. As I feared, looks like the days of terrestrial TV from the North are over 🙄

Johnboy1951

I had not done anything about this, but today added the new mux frequency for Maghera to my tuner and all services are present and reception is good.
Seems my wideband old aerial is working well.

The Cush

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Seems my wideband old aerial is working well.

The old wideband aerial will have no problems with the lower frequencies, in the future problems might arise as mobile broadband services are switched on at local base stations and may require an LTE/5G filter.

Johnboy1951

The Cush wrote: »

The old wideband aerial will have no problems with the lower frequencies, in the future problems might arise as mobile broadband services are switched on at local base stations and may require an LTE/5G filter.

I am presently in a black hole for all mobile services so unless they put up a new mast I might not see any interference.

The Cush

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I am presently in a black hole for all mobile services so unless they put up a new mast I might not see any interference.

Likely not, generally interference occurs close to mobile base stations, aerials with masthead amps, aerials pointing in the direction of base stations.

Mickey Mike

The Cush wrote: »

Post clearance it'll use UHF 46 & 48 at 160kW, Group K aerial.

UHF Group B (yellow tips) I'd say. Although Group K cover's both A (red) & B yellow.

The Cush

Mickey Mike wrote: »

UHF Group B (yellow tips) I'd say. Although Group K cover's both A (red) & B yellow.

Group K will be the new wideband (UHF21-48) post 700MHz clearance, Group B would not be recommended as it range extends into the new 5G frequency range although a filter could be used to reduce/eliminate potential interference.

Mickey Mike

The Cush wrote: »

Group K will be the new wideband (UHF21-48) post 700MHz clearance, Group B would not be recommended as it range extends into the new 5G frequency range although a filter could be used to reduce/eliminate potential interference.

Group K is silver tips I would imagine.

The Cush

Saorview related work on Clermont Carn this week, 3 day x 6 hours outages and Maghera 6 hour overnight outage

https://twitter.com/2rnNMC/status/1130043584378540032

https://twitter.com/2rnNMC/status/1130043594365128704

Mickey Mike

In another 10 years we could see a 600 MHz clearance, sur everything we have can easily fit into Group A, Ch. 21 to 37, so don't be surprised. I don't visualise a MUX 3 to be honest.

Iderown

September will be an interesting time! My strategy will be to see what happens before climbing about on the roof. I will occasionally scan to see if Clermont Carn is doing any tests on the new lower frequencies.



I'm in Bangor (County Down) - just outside the official service area of Clermont Carn. Aerial is grouped and with a grouped 16(?)dB masthead amp. Signal is reliable. Nice to have the additional programmes which are not available from NIMM at Black Mountain.


Black Mountain NIMM is received by the group A aerial for Divis. Black Mountain and Divis are both horizontal and in the same direction from here. TG4, RTE1 and RTE2 available from NIMM. But, some programmes are blank if they are also on pay providers here - sports events, for example.

TAFKAlawhec

Iderown wrote: »

September will be an interesting time! My strategy will be to see what happens before climbing about on the roof. I will occasionally scan to see if Clermont Carn is doing any tests on the new lower frequencies.

I doubt that will happen - the "new" frequencies for use at Clermont Cairn are currently in use at several relay stations in Northern Ireland. Far more likely come 4th September when the NI transmitters & relays change frequencies that the Saorview simulcast period begins and then there's six months for viewers & 2rn to sort problems out.

Johnboy1951

Wondering if the new Maghera frequency is broadcasting still.
It has been a while since I checked - a couple of months.

If it is still on the air I thought maybe to change to it permanently.

The Cush

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

If it is still on the air I thought maybe to change to it permanently.

Not officially live until Sept 4th, I'd wait until then just incase. The old frequencies continue for another 6 months unchanged.

Johnboy1951

The Cush wrote: »

Not officially live until Sept 4th, I'd wait until then just incase. The old frequencies continue for another 6 months unchanged.

Just checked now and I did not receive anything on the new frequency ..... unless I got some parameter wrong it must not be broadcasting.

rabbidpeach

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Just checked now and I did not receive anything on the new frequency ..... unless I got some parameter wrong it must not be broadcasting.

Drogheda is online but just a blank carrier. So you won’t get anything in a search despite having a signal. Maghera might be the same.