Saorview frequencies reshuffle (700 MHz clearence)

Hibrasil

Digifriendly wrote: »

BTW i don't charge any fee. I'm doing it for members of my church most of whom are elderly.

Good man....nice to see the decency of a good deed still exists in todays world:)

MBSnr

^^^
After changing my LG TV to use Ch 46 instead of CH 55 from Maghera, I no longer (as of yet) get that annoying retune message....
Also nicely coincidently, the lower frequency signal on CH 46 also is much more robust than CH 55 for long cable runs. Both our house and the neighbours, with one TV on a long run coaxial cable, used to get breakup on that TV due to the weather and/or local electrical interference on CH 55, but it's never a problem on CH 46 since retuning. The other shorter cable run TV was always fine in both houses on Ch 55.

Rick_

Good to hear.

I also seem to have found an aerial installer who said they can modify my parents set-up to get back COM7 and COM8 and hopefully (as its at a stronger power than those 2 COM MUX's) the local MUX from Divis on 36 also.

Mu mum will be pleased if she can as she was particularly annoyed at losing True Entertainment, which has now become Sony Channel.

TAFKAlawhec

Digifriendly wrote: »

Problem here in NI is that Saorview channels are all over the place after either auto tune or manual scan and all the empty channel carriers on one of the muxes is a pain as you have to delete empty channel carriers and reorder channels. I know Saorview is not devised for UK market but many people up here have Saorview and elderly in particular don't know how to reorder channel list so some do not even know they have some channels which are way down the epg in late 800s. I have been retuning TVs in my area since latest changes and reordering Saorview channels has taken up most of my time.

That's a different matter to what was being mentioned. The "late 800's" issue is down to the UK D-Book specifications where the 800's channels are allocated to "duplicate" or UK out-of-region channels, as well as non-UK received services. The large amount of empty 800's LCN numbers is down to 2RN allocating LCN numbers for ROI reception which contain no associated service. If you set the country on the tuner as "Ireland" and did a scan, the LCNs would be essentially invisible whilst channel surfing - but where the tuner is set to another country then the order gets messed up.

Personally I set the Saorview TV channels to be reordered, where possible, into the 90's with the radio starting at 740. People's mileage will vary. A number of years back when Freeview had less stations running, I placed the Saorview TV channels in the 60's and the radio starting at 730.

I've long wondered if the Saorview services could be run with a dual-LCN, one corresponding to Ireland and a second one to the UK for NI viewers? I suspect it's possible (the Freeview multiplexes in NI for example have two clocks corresponding to time settings for both the UK & ROI, but this isn't reciprocated by Saorview) and could have been designed so that Saorview viewers in NI would have then channels in a specific, unique LCN allocation - but I suspect programming rights issues get in the way, like it does in most things broadcasting.

icdg

Split the posts replying to #306 to a new thread

The Cush

icdg wrote: »

Split the posts replying to #306 to a new thread

Thanks icdg, unfortunately you also took Digifriendly's post which was relevant to this thread's discussion - https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=111459663#post111459663

soporific

Just a quick note to help anyone who lost Kilkeel signal on the East Coast. I got the channels back....somewhat. My group B yagi was aimed exactly at Kilkeel and had perfect reception until last month's changes. For a few weeks, they were gone, occasionally blipping in on misty days (I guess this was due to the atmospheric conditions blocking interference from the Newry trasnmitter.) But then I discovered that some of my neighbours with wideband aerials were still receiving Kilkeel. Out to the roof I went and twisted the aerial away from Kilkeel (and away from Newry) and in came the channels (albeit much weaker signal). Sometimes it seems having a weaker wideband aerial is better than having a strong directional yagi.

Hotblack Desiato

It's a known technique with interfering signals to aim your aerial "off-beam" a bit in the hope that while the wanted signal will be weakened, the unwanted signal will be weakened even more.

Digifriendly

Just to say that I am now able to get consistently stable signal on C51 (Com 7 Divis) over last week on one of my TVs when immediately after frequency changes the signal was intermittent or showing no signal at all. I even had an intermittent C60 (Com 8) a couple of days ago on the same TV.

Elvis Hammond

soporific wrote: »

... My group B yagi was aimed exactly at Kilkeel and had perfect reception until last month's changes.

... But then I discovered that some of my neighbours with wideband aerials were still receiving Kilkeel.

... Sometimes it seems having a weaker wideband aerial is better than having a strong directional yagi.

If it's grid aerials you're referring to, they won't be hugely 'weaker' than your Yagi, at the frequencies concerned, & are probably just as directional for vertically polarised signals.

Their radiation pattern must just suit the location in question.

Mortelaro

Regarding kilkeel,how do you know,aerials are pointed exactly at it? Has anyone actually used a meter or are aerials pointed just vaguely as they were in analogue days?

We aligned an aerial in Arklow for Arfon for example with a meter only to discover that other aerials were considerably off
The other houses were getting reasonable analogue back in the day,but could have been getting better
Their signal level for digital,which is very important must have been way down on what it could have been
Moral of the story,make sure you have a meter and if needed call out a service with someone who definitely has a meter

MBSnr

Mortelaro wrote: »

Regarding kilkeel,how do you know,aerials are pointed exactly at it? Has anyone actually used a meter or are aerials pointed just vaguely as they were in analogue days?

I used Google maps "measure distance" to get a direct line from the transmitter to my house. Luckily there's decent satellite imagery in my area. I then pointed the aerial at a landmark on or close to the line. (Well actually I stood outside my house and got a compass bearing on the phone to the landmark, as the aerial is in the loft and then used that bearing to line up the aerial - I live in the countryside so have a clear view to horizon). A few degrees either side of that bearing made no difference to the signal for me.

EDIT - This was from Maghera in Co Clare.

Mortelaro

MBSnr wrote: »

I used Google maps "measure distance" to get a direct line from the transmitter to my house. Luckily there's decent satellite imagery in my area. I then pointed the aerial at a landmark on or close to the line. (Well actually I stood outside my house and got a compass bearing on the phone to the landmark, as the aerial is in the loft and then used that bearing to line up the aerial - I live in the countryside so have a clear view to horizon). A few degrees either side of that bearing made no difference to the signal for me.

EDIT - This was from Maghera in Co Clare.

Probably ok for within the service area of an Irish tx but for pulling in Fringe digital from outside the coverage area of UK transmitters, a meter is your only man(or woman)
Google maps will locate the transmitter for you but it won't locate the peak strength of an invisible beam for you and you need that

Elvis Hammond

MBSnr wrote: »

... A few degrees either side of that bearing made no difference to the signal for me.

Yeah, UHF TV aerials aren't all that directional, even higher gain types.

soporific

Mortelaro wrote: »

Regarding kilkeel,how do you know,aerials are pointed exactly at it? Has anyone actually used a meter or are aerials pointed just vaguely as they were in analogue days?
r

I used the signal value on the TV. Naturally, it changes constantly as the atmosphere changes, but it's possible with patience to get an exact lock.
And small increments do make a big difference to fringe reception.

Mortelaro

soporific wrote: »

I used the signal value on the TV. Naturally, it changes constantly as the atmosphere changes, but it's possible with patience to get an exact lock.
And small increments do make a big difference to fringe reception.

A meter is a much more sensitive lock but yeah you're right small increments are the difference between no signal some of the time or all of the time
Back in analogue days, you could move a preseli aerial here at home a foot or two either side and still have reception albeit snowier the further off you went
That option doesn't exist with digital,you either have it or you don't,its a cliff edge drop
The fringe signal varying with weather too is another reason to get it at as full a metered peak as you can if you can get a meter or a rigger has one for you
With weather too,you can lose a digital fringe signal,not because it's too weak but because it's too strong and floods the band if say you have a distribution amplifier
When a weather front approaches for example,ahead of it here preseli gets very strong and you lose it
We use an attenuator to dial it down and restore the channels
Fog does the opposite or high waves at sea,those weaken signal considerably

Elvis Hammond

soporific wrote: »

... And small increments do make a big difference to fringe reception.

You might be in the fringe as regards Kilkeel's service area, but you more than likely still have clear line-of-sight to the transmitter, which is more than can be said for some locations actually in service areas.

The problem is interference, mainly from the co-channel Camlough & hugely more powerful adjacent channel Clermont Carn.

kazoo106

Clermont Carn is also strong in those kilkeel service areas with no LOS - Its only 15km away !!

Elvis Hammond

kazoo106 wrote: »

Clermont Carn is also strong in those kilkeel service areas with no LOS - Its only 15km away !!

No LOS to where?

CC wouldn't be putting anywhere near max. power that way anyway though.

kazoo106

The areas with no LOS to Aughram around Cranfield

Elvis Hammond

kazoo106 wrote: »

The areas with no LOS to Aughram around Cranfield

Well, CC won't have panels facing that way, & the rx aerials on Kilkeel will be at right angles more or less, so it's not like someone further south trying to discriminate between them.

Antenna

Some pictures (audio is silent) of current bilingual advisory appearing on Saorview channel 17 on a receiver put on the old UHF channel MUX that's to be switched off from an affected transmitter (manually tuned to 49 instead of the replacement 39 from Spur Hill).
The notice only mentions retuning/rescanning. No mention that some viewers nationwide would have to replace aerials. The affected TV stations on the to-be-discontinued MUX continue to have a full stop after the station name as an indication they are affected.

One quirk on the Walker combo receiver I tried out. Go straight to RTE1 (pressing 1) from this notice and there was no sound on RTE1 ! Sound returned by going to RTE2 and back to RTE1




and pressing the info button shows the following:

The Cush

Saorview Advisory channels

LCN 17 (Mux 2)
LCN 18 (Mux 1)

From late November, Saorview will be broadcasting a message on channels 17 and 18 which will only be viewable if you are in an area affected by the change and are still receiving Saorview on the old frequencies. The old frequencies will be switched off on 4 March 2020, so you will have until then to retune your Saorview TV or box.

https://www.saorview.ie/en/changes/faqs

bfa1509

We lost all our channels except for RTE1, Virgin media 3 and the +1 channels on our aerial powered saorbox. I've tried rescanning countless times and tried all the different settings but I can't get the channels back. I thought it may have been linked to this frequency change. However, I bought a £20 freeview box off Amazon and all the channels are working on this.

Could this be just a faulty saorbox or is there something I need to do to get the channels back? (do some kind of manual scan or change something with the aerial for example) I would prefer to use the old saorbox as it's better quality with better record functions.

Thanks in advance for any help!

Mickey Mike

bfa1509 wrote: »

We lost all our channels except for RTE1, Virgin media 3 and the +1 channels on our aerial powered saorbox. I've tried rescanning countless times and tried all the different settings but I can't get the channels back. I thought it may have been linked to this frequency change. However, I bought a £20 freeview box off Amazon and all the channels are working on this.

Could this be just a faulty saorbox or is there something I need to do to get the channels back? (do some kind of manual scan or change something with the aerial for example) I would prefer to use the old saorbox as it's better quality with better record functions.

Thanks in advance for any help!

Mux 1 is out of order in your area.

Elvis Hammond

bfa1509 wrote: »

We lost all our channels except for RTE1, Virgin media 3 and the +1 channels on our aerial powered saorbox. I've tried rescanning countless times and tried all the different settings but I can't get the channels back. I thought it may have been linked to this frequency change. However, I bought a £20 freeview box off Amazon and all the channels are working on this.

Could this be just a faulty saorbox or is there something I need to do to get the channels back? (do some kind of manual scan or change something with the aerial for example) ...

At the affected transmitters, the new frequencies have been running alongside the old since September, & the old won't be switched off until March.

What part of the country are you in? Can you get the Amazon box to display channel nos. or frequencies for RTE1 & RTE2?

podge018

Trying to tune saorview channels via indoor aerial to a Sony Bravia KDL-40D3500 but I’m only getting sound and guide, no picture. Any idea why?

Mortelaro

podge018 wrote: »

Trying to tune saorview channels via indoor aerial to a Sony Bravia KDL-40D3500 but I’m only getting sound and guide, no picture. Any idea why?

Bad news I'm afraid
Thats an mpeg 2 capable telly only
It's not comparable with saorview mpeg4 which is why you have sound and no picture
Where did you get it?
Its s uk freeview only tv
It doesn't even have a uk freeview hd tuner (DVB T2) which is compatible with saorview

podge018

Mortelaro wrote: »

Bad news I'm afraid
Thats an mpeg 2 capable telly only
It's not comparable with saorview mpeg4 which is why you have sound and no picture
Where did you get it?
Its s uk freeview only tv
It doesn't even have a uk freeview hd tuner (DVB T2) which is compatible with saorview

Feared as much from a quick google search, thanks for confirming.

Anything I can do at all? Buy a connection or a box or anything?

L1011

podge018 wrote: »

Feared as much from a quick google search, thanks for confirming.

Anything I can do at all? Buy a connection or a box or anything?

External Saorview box, still available in basically any electrical retailer.