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Saorview frequencies reshuffle (700 MHz clearence)

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    #272
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,513 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    joeysoap wrote: »
    Would I benefit now from a new aerial or wait until March? The full stops are still showing on the newest tv (lg - 2months old UM series) on Irish Saorview channels. Dundalk.

    No point waiting until March, all final frequencies are now live, the old frequencies only remain to allow people time to sort out any reception issues they might have with their current installations.


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    #273
    soporific
    Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭soporific


    I'm in East Meath just outside Drogheda and have been using Kilkeel and Clermont on a group B aerial. I was at home on Wednesday when the switchover took place and tried a few retunes on Kilkeel. All 3 muxes came in at different times and for a brief hour or two all three and the two new Clermont frequencies were living happily beside each other. (the 42 and 45 of Clermont and the 40, 43 aned 46 of Kilkeel). Then without warning, all three Kilkeel were gone. I can only specuulate that Camlugh was switched on and that killed the Kilkeel signal. I really dont want to go up the ladder and start messing about with slight changes in direction. Would it make any difference or is Divis or Wales the only alternative?


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    #274
    Mortelaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Mortelaro


    soporific wrote: »
    I'm in East Meath just outside Drogheda and have been using Kilkeel and Clermont on a group B aerial. I was at home on Wednesday when the switchover took place and tried a few retunes on Kilkeel. All 3 muxes came in at different times and for a brief hour or two all three and the two new Clermont frequencies were living happily beside each other. (the 42 and 45 of Clermont and the 40, 43 aned 46 of Kilkeel). Then without warning, all three Kilkeel were gone. I can only specuulate that Camlugh was switched on and that killed the Kilkeel signal. I really dont want to go up the ladder and start messing about with slight changes in direction. Would it make any difference or is Divis or Wales the only alternative?

    You were originally pulling in clermont on a group B which weakened it
    You are now pulling all in on the correct group B which could mean clermont is flooding the band for you it's so strong versus kilkeel
    An attenuator might help,but its rock and hard place territory as it will also reduce kilkeel
    Kilkeel's signal is the fringe reception too so more prone to weather and that's probably why it's coming and going for you now
    Prior it could cope
    With the new stronger received same group clermont, it can't


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    #275
    Iderown
    Registered Users Posts: 233 ✭✭Iderown


    soporific


    When you can manage it, the installation of an aerial for Divis (group A horizontal) would be the better option. Keeping your present aerial for Clermont Carn (group B vertical).

    Edited to note that if you want ALL the programmes that are available from Divis, you will need a group T aerial. Divis transmits most of the high definition variants along with some time shifted programmes in channels 51 and 60. These to change to 55 and 56 in March 2020.


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    #276
    Elvis Hammond
    Registered Users Posts: 491 ✭✭Elvis Hammond


    soporific wrote: »
    I'm in East Meath just outside Drogheda and have been using Kilkeel and Clermont on a group B aerial. I was at home on Wednesday when the switchover took place and tried a few retunes on Kilkeel. All 3 muxes came in at different times and for a brief hour or two all three and the two new Clermont frequencies were living happily beside each other. (the 42 and 45 of Clermont and the 40, 43 aned 46 of Kilkeel). Then without warning, all three Kilkeel were gone. I can only specuulate that Camlugh was switched on and that killed the Kilkeel signal. I really dont want to go up the ladder and start messing about with slight changes in direction. Would it make any difference or is Divis or Wales the only alternative?

    BBC reception shows Camlough as being off air from 2.02pm until 4.48pm on the 4th. (Presumably the UTV mux was off too.) Kilkeel HD is shown as being off air at this time too, though.

    I assume your aerial is actually aligned on Kilkeel?


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    #277
    stam
    Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭stam


    Elvis Hammond wrote: »
    They're not blank carriers; Saorview is up & running on those freqs. Never thought of them being adjacent to Kilkeel now: indeed that could explain why adox a few posts back was still getting BBC on ch.40.

    Kilkeel already has the co-channel Camlough to deal with.

    I think an adjacent channel can be something like 25dB above before it starts doing harm?



    Kildare? That was impressive while it lasted, although I think I'd be going with satellite now for FTA UK TV.

    Yes I'm just outside newbridge had it on the old analogue for years then when it went digital so I got a new aerial to have a go at it I think the name of the aerial was triax 100 A and got them since the other day yes it looks like freesat the way to go now thanks


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    #278
    andrew1977
    Registered Users Posts: 3,089 ✭✭✭andrew1977


    Hi ,
    Completely uneducated on this , my Uk channels all gone on my free to air TVs ( Drogheda area)

    I assume it’s relayed to this matter and I’ve tried numerous retunes but no joy on getting the channels back .

    Reading from here , I assume they are gone for good now ?

    I have a free view box which can get them in , just a bit more awkward switching around to it .

    Thank you


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    #279
    mackersdublin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭mackersdublin


    The Cush wrote: »
    Revised post-700MHz clearance Saorview Transmitter and Frequency information pdf, dated Sept 2019, rev. 1.2

    http://www.2rn.ie/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/2RN-DTT-Television-Transmission-Network-Sept-2019-Rev.1.2.pdf

    Previous version here - https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=92032951#post92032951

    Just looking through the Main Stations, any reason why a few of them (Cairn Hill, Maghera, Spur Hill and Woodcock Hill) have Mux 1 at a higher number than Mux 2

    For example Cairn Hill (47/44) - Why can't Mux 1 be 44 and Mux 2 be 47?


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    #280
    Mortelaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Mortelaro


    andrew1977 wrote: »
    Hi ,
    Completely uneducated on this , my Uk channels all gone on my free to air TVs ( Drogheda area)

    I assume it’s relayed to this matter and I’ve tried numerous retunes but no joy on getting the channels back .

    Reading from here , I assume they are gone for good now ?

    I have a free view box which can get them in , just a bit more awkward switching around to it .

    Thank you

    You can get them on the freeview box but not the telly?
    By freeview do you mean freesat?
    Freeview is the term for digital terrestrial


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    #281
    andrew1977
    Registered Users Posts: 3,089 ✭✭✭andrew1977


    Mortelaro wrote: »
    You can get them on the freeview box but not the telly?
    By freeview do you mean freesat?
    Freeview is the term for digital terrestrial


    Apologies . Yes it’s a triax sr 110 box , got it installed years back when all the rage.
    Hundreds of channels of mostly crap but thankfully all the UK standard channels working fine ok it .
    So I assume my free to air Telly won’t pick up the English channels anymore ?
    Thanks for the help


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    #282
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,513 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    mackersdublin wrote: »
    Just looking through the Main Stations, any reason why a few of them (Cairn Hill, Maghera, Spur Hill and Woodcock Hill) have Mux 1 at a higher number than Mux 2

    For example Cairn Hill (47/44) - Why can't Mux 1 be 44 and Mux 2 be 47?

    At the time Mux1 was switched on there were between 2 and 4 analogue UHF channels broadcasting from each site, but by the time Mux2 came along the analogue channels were gone and so I assume they are using some of these old frequencies.

    I guess it doesn't really matter as the LCNs will put the channels in the correct order in any case.


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    #283
    Elvis Hammond
    Registered Users Posts: 491 ✭✭Elvis Hammond


    mackersdublin wrote: »
    Just looking through the Main Stations, any reason why a few of them (Cairn Hill, Maghera, Spur Hill and Woodcock Hill) have Mux 1 at a higher number than Mux 2

    For example Cairn Hill (47/44) - Why can't Mux 1 be 44 and Mux 2 be 47?

    In the original switch to Saorview, they seem to have done all those 44, 47 sites that way, for whatever reason. A couple of them I think were using that block (41, 44, 47, 51) for analogue, so mux 1 went on their unused TV3 allocation, ch. 47. That doesn't apply to most of them though.

    Certainly both frequencies should be equal status from a planning perspective.


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    #284
    Mortelaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Mortelaro


    andrew1977 wrote: »
    Apologies . Yes it’s a triax sr 110 box , got it installed years back when all the rage.
    Hundreds of channels of mostly crap but thankfully all the UK standard channels working fine ok it .
    So I assume my free to air Telly won’t pick up the English channels anymore ?
    Thanks for the help
    Theres a lot of pressure against it yes,not least clermont moving to the same frequency group as kilkeel at a billion times the strength which can flood the band with your masthead amp
    Someone up thread has moved their aerial to where they are sheltered from it
    But finding a spot like that where you're essentially pointing at both anyway with something just blocking clermont enough would be a lot of trial and error and flukey

    I do not know the area


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    #285
    andrew1977
    Registered Users Posts: 3,089 ✭✭✭andrew1977


    Mortelaro wrote: »
    Theres a lot of pressure against it yes,not least clermont moving to the same frequency group as kilkeel at a billion times the strength which can flood the band with your masthead amp
    Someone up thread has moved their aerial to where they are sheltered from it
    But finding a spot like that where you're essentially pointing at both anyway with something just blocking clermont enough would be a lot of trial and error and flukey

    I do not know the area

    I don’t understand half your sayin there , apologies , Ive no idea on this sort of thing.

    So the channels are gone for good now from my Telly ? That’s the long and short of what I can make out from reading this thread .
    Thanks again


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    #286
    Mortelaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Mortelaro


    andrew1977 wrote: »
    I don’t understand half your sayin there , apologies , Ive no idea on this sort of thing.

    So the channels are gone for good now from my Telly ? That’s the long and short of what I can make out from reading this thread .
    Thanks again

    Yeah,that's it
    Some people mess about with their aerial, putting it in different places and find a spot where the interference causing the channels to be gone isn't getting through
    But that's pure luck
    Simplest and only solution for you is satelite


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    #287
    Rick_
    Registered Users Posts: 2,606 ✭✭✭Rick_


    I've contacted a few local aerial companies to enquire about getting all 8 Divis MUX's along with Clermont in the one set-up and they have all told me is isn't possible or told me information that isn't correct (from what is available online that says otherwise). So, a case of lazy/incompetent installers or do they happen to know more than the good folk on here?
    🤷


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    #288
    Mortelaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Mortelaro


    PFMC84 wrote: »
    I've contacted a few local aerial companies to enquire about getting all 8 Divis MUX's along with Clermont in the one set-up and they have all told me is isn't possible or told me information that isn't correct (from what is available online that says otherwise). So, a case of lazy/incompetent installers or do they happen to know more than the good folk on here?
    🀷

    No not lazy
    Just aerial fatigue
    A lot of them just want you to throw up a dish
    It would be interesting if UK tv became scrambled again on Sat
    There'd be a lot of new aerial investment then


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    #289
    Digifriendly
    Registered Users Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Digifriendly


    For some reason Com 7 (now C51 Divis) has been steady signal quality since Saturday. Was unable to receive at all since frequency changes except when power for my masthead amp for RTE was switched off but can receive now with amp on on one of my TVs. Com 8 (C60 Divis) still not coming through.


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    #290
    Digifriendly
    Registered Users Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Digifriendly


    Mortelaro wrote: »
    No not lazy
    Just aerial fatigue
    A lot of them just want you to throw up a dish
    It would be interesting if UK tv became scrambled again on Sat
    There'd be a lot of new aerial investment then

    Totally agree with you. Laziness and half heartedness abounds in modern society and 'Just can't be bothered' is the motto of many it seems. There are of course some dedicated hard working aerial installers and its getting to the right one that is the key.


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    #291
    Rick_
    Registered Users Posts: 2,606 ✭✭✭Rick_


    If I knew where to find one that covered the area I would contact them, but everyone I have contacted that comes up for a Google/Yellow Pages search for here (or who say they cover here but are from a fair bit away) have all basically given the same answer.


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    #292
    Mickey Mike
    Registered Users Posts: 784 ✭✭✭Mickey Mike


    mackersdublin wrote: »
    Just looking through the Main Stations, any reason why a few of them (Cairn Hill, Maghera, Spur Hill and Woodcock Hill) have Mux 1 at a higher number than Mux 2

    For example Cairn Hill (47/44) - Why can't Mux 1 be 44 and Mux 2 be 47?

    You're absolutely right, its a messy lay out, they should have corrected afterwards, RTE did an excellent job when laying out the analogue tv channels and have done an excellent job with the FM radio channels.
    But whoever layed out the saorview frequently, made a pure balls of it, another example is RTE1 is on Mux 2 and RTE2 on Mux1.


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    #293
    mackersdublin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭mackersdublin


    PFMC84 wrote: »
    If I knew where to find one that covered the area I would contact them, but everyone I have contacted that comes up for a Google/Yellow Pages search for here (or who say they cover here but are from a fair bit away) have all basically given the same answer.

    http://isaa.ie/FIND.html is recommended by Saorview


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    #294
    Elvis Hammond
    Registered Users Posts: 491 ✭✭Elvis Hammond


    Mickey Mike wrote: »
    You're absolutely right, its a messy lay out, they should have corrected afterwards ...

    ... But whoever layed out the saorview frequently, made a pure balls of it, another example is RTE1 is on Mux 2 and RTE2 on Mux1.

    And why do you think any of this matters to the functioning of Saorview?


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    #295
    Rick_
    Registered Users Posts: 2,606 ✭✭✭Rick_


    mackersdublin wrote: »
    http://isaa.ie/FIND.html is recommended by Saorview

    And not a single installer is listed for my county, apart from one in Dublin and I'm not paying their fee for travelling to me!


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    #296
    TAFKAlawhec
    Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭TAFKAlawhec


    Mickey Mike wrote: »
    You're absolutely right, its a messy lay out, they should have corrected afterwards, RTE did an excellent job when laying out the analogue tv channels and have done an excellent job with the FM radio channels.
    But whoever layed out the saorview frequently, made a pure balls of it, another example is RTE1 is on Mux 2 and RTE2 on Mux1.
    None of this matters to the end consumer. All DVB-T receivers can automatically scan for available multiplexes, or can manually tune in to a frequency using the on screen menu. TV and radio channels are placed in LCNs regardless what order they are scanned in. Makes no difference whatsoever in the end. Would be an utter waste of time, resources and money to engage in essentially an anorack cosmetic exercise that would force viewers in areas unaffected by the retuning required earlier this month to having to retune to view all services again. Besides RTÉ through 2RN would be crucified in public for carrying out something technically needless especially in their current financial state.


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    #297
    Digifriendly
    Registered Users Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Digifriendly


    TAFKAlawhec wrote: »
    None of this matters to the end consumer. All DVB-T receivers can automatically scan for available multiplexes, or can manually tune in to a frequency using the on screen menu. TV and radio channels are placed in LCNs regardless what order they are scanned in. Makes no difference whatsoever in the end. Would be an utter waste of time, resources and money to engage in essentially an anorack cosmetic exercise that would force viewers in areas unaffected by the retuning required earlier this month to having to retune to view all services again. Besides RTÉ through 2RN would be crucified in public for carrying out something technically needless especially in their current financial state.

    Problem here in NI is that Saorview channels are all over the place after either auto tune or manual scan and all the empty channel carriers on one of the muxes is a pain as you have to delete empty channel carriers and reorder channels. I know Saorview is not devised for UK market but many people up here have Saorview and elderly in particular don't know how to reorder channel list so some do not even know they have some channels which are way down the epg in late 800s. I have been retuning TVs in my area since latest changes and reordering Saorview channels has taken up most of my time.


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    #298
    Mortelaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Mortelaro


    Digifriendly wrote: »
    Problem here in NI is that Saorview channels are all over the place after either auto tune or manual scan and all the empty channel carriers on one of the muxes is a pain as you have to delete empty channel carriers and reorder channels. I know Saorview is not devised for UK market but many people up here have Saorview and elderly in particular don't know how to reorder channel list so some do not even know they have some channels which are way down the epg in late 800s. I have been retuning TVs in my area since latest changes and reordering Saorview channels has taken up most of my time.

    Nice call out fee or is it pro bono :D
    mackersdublin wrote: »
    http://isaa.ie/FIND.html is recommended by Saorview
    PFMC84 wrote: »
    And not a single installer is listed for my county, apart from one in Dublin and I'm not paying their fee for travelling to me!


    There are several long established companies not on that list though,probably because it was an organisation set up via boards.ie and word of mouth with some installers only


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    #299
    Rick_
    Registered Users Posts: 2,606 ✭✭✭Rick_


    I've also been retuning friends and relatives TV's for them and then re-ordering their channels to get the Irish channels coming right after the 5 UK ones at the top of the EPG.

    I'm just glad my TV remembers my EPG positions, even if I retune or if the channel changes MUX, the order and any name changes I've applied remain.


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    #300
    soporific
    Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭soporific


    on my sony android TV, reordering the channels after a retune means some channels do not receive EPG or even now/next listings. I dont know if this is particular to android or sony but the problem seems to stem from all the "null" channels that RTE or 2RN insert into both muxes. Just for clarity, this EPG problem never occurs with the British channels. After hours of struggle and swpaping channels around, I finally worked out that doing a retune that received the British channels first and then stopping the retune and manually adding the 2RN muxes was the best way of relocating the RTE channels and "null" services and their ghost effect further down the channel numbers.


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    #301
    Digifriendly
    Registered Users Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Digifriendly


    PFMC84 wrote: »
    I've also been retuning friends and relatives TV's for them and then re-ordering their channels to get the Irish channels coming right after the 5 UK ones at the top of the EPG.

    I'm just glad my TV remembers my EPG positions, even if I retune or if the channel changes MUX, the order and any name changes I've applied remain.

    My Panansonic HDD PVR keeps channel order from previous setting before any retune but all TVs I have tuned in, mostly Sony/Samsung/Sharp all require reordering Saorview channels after every retune. Mux with RTE2/VM1/TG4 etc is fine but other Mux with RTE1/RTE1+1/VM3 etc has channels all over the place. BTW i don't charge any fee. I'm doing it for members of my church most of whom are elderly.


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