Formula 1 2018: General Discussion Thread

Harika

Adamocovic wrote: »

McLaren: Lando Norris
Mercedes: George Russell

Too bad just one can win the title in the rookie season, both look very promising.

g1983d

g1983d wrote: »

Whats needed is more teams so these guys can get a drive and these teams need to be able to fight at the front for at least one race a year even if it's by luck. Think of a lot of Jordans podium finishes, weather and crashes did a lot for them

What's needed is less reliability.

skipper_G

Harika wrote: »

Too bad just one can win the title in the rookie season, both look very promising.

My gut says Norris is the quicker of the two, but I think Russell's first hand experience of the Pirelli tyres from his GP3 campaign gives him the slight edge.

Burkie1203

Can't see Alonso stick around beyond this season

https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/status/1014907321942794240?s=19

AMKC

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Can't see Alonso stick around beyond this season

https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/status/1014907321942794240?s=19

I agree. There is only so much hyping up you can do as well as pretending it all good and going to be better.

A decade do that is ridiculous. Even Renault can do better than that. It should only take about 5 years. If it is going to take Mclaren a decade to be competitive again you have to ask. Will they even be around by then? Who would want to drive there and would investors not get bored funding on non competitive team?

Mike Litoris

AMKC wrote: »

A decade do that is ridiculous. Even Renault can do better than that. It should only take about 5 years. If it is going to take Mclaren a decade to be competitive again you have to ask. Will they even be around by then? Who would want to drive there and would investors not get bored funding on non competitive team?

It's shocking to hear that coming from the head of a team like McLaren. Is he just being realistic? Is this how F1 is now? Will we never see a Brawn GP happening again, a phoenix from the flames type event? Williams slide into oblivion is another shocker.

g1983d

Mike Litoris wrote: »

It's shocking to hear that coming from the head of a team like McLaren. Is he just being realistic? Is this how F1 is now? Will we never see a Brawn GP happening again, a phoenix from the flames type event? Williams slide into oblivion is another shocker.

That should be a firing offence, for the boss to say things like it could be 2 or 10 years is a joke

skipper_G

g1983d wrote: »

That should be a firing offence, for the boss to say things like it could be 2 or 10 years is a joke

That’s a bit dramatic don't ye think. If he said 2 years people would rip into them for being unrealistic. I think no matter what time frame he put on it people will just criticise them regardless. (not that they don't deserve it mind you, they are an embarrassment given the resources at their disposal)

They could be back to a reasonably competitive position in 4 or 5 years I imagine. But they won't win championships as an engine customer.

g1983d

skipper_G wrote: »

That’s a bit dramatic don't ye think. If he said 2 years people would rip into them for being unrealistic. I think no matter what time frame he put on it people will just criticise them regardless. (not that they don't deserve it mind you, they are an embarrassment given the resources at their disposal)

They could be back to a reasonably competitive position in 4 or 5 years I imagine. But they won't win championships as an engine customer.

The length of time is not what I was getting at, it was him saying it could be 2 years or it could be 10 years, who knows.
He's the boss so he should have a fair idea of how long it'll take them .
Uncertainty kills any company, there should be clear targets and timelines for them that everyone can then work to

El_Duderino 09

H3llR4iser wrote: »

And let's not get started about they "but we have one of the best chassis!!!" that McLaren themselves kept shouting out and the British press kept fanning the flames of - now they have a PU capable of winning races (ask Ricciardo and Verstappen), and it's clear the chassis is inferior to Mercedes, Ferrari, Red Bull, Renault, Haas, Force India, Toro Rosso and it's a matter of time until Sauber/Alfa overtakes them, given the progress shown.

I think that’s unfair about the British media fanning the flames. The British media I consume treated McLaren’s claim as fancifully at best. And probably not true but untestable, at worst. I heard them say it was mostly just a way to shift the blame onto Honda to help encourage sponsorship.

It was never intended to convince the likes of you and me.

Vic_08

skipper_G wrote: »

But they won't win championships as an engine customer.

This is a big pile of crap IMO, Red Bull won 4 in a row as a customer and if in the current hybrid era they had been a Mercedes customer rather than a Renault one they could easily have won a few more and be frontrunners this year as well.

McLaren have had a scapegoat in Honda but the whole "can't win as a customer" line that Ron was spinning in 2014 was obviously BS that was masking the team's weaknesses. It wasn't just Mercedes that were beating them in 2014, Williams were the second best Merc powered team and McLaren struggled to beat Force India all season.

skipper_G

Vic_08 wrote: »

This is a big pile of crap IMO, Red Bull won 4 in a row as a customer and if in the current hybrid era they had been a Mercedes customer rather than a Renault one they could easily have won a few more and be frontrunners this year as well.

McLaren have had a scapegoat in Honda but the whole "can't win as a customer" line that Ron was spinning in 2014 was obviously BS that was masking the team's weaknesses. It wasn't just Mercedes that were beating them in 2014, Williams were the second best Merc powered team and McLaren struggled to beat Force India all season.

There's a massive difference in being a customer of an engine supplier only & a customer of a works team. Red Bull won 4 titles because they effectively enjoyed a works relationship. There was no Renault works team during those seasons. Why on earth do you think Red Bull are so eager to switch away from Renault now, because it follows simple logic. The works team will always, always be the priority. With Honda giving them that priority the choice makes perfect sense.

FWIW, I agree McLaren is fundamentally not a good car, it's been like that for a number of years now.

El_Duderino 09

skipper_G wrote: »

Vic_08 wrote: »

This is a big pile of crap IMO, Red Bull won 4 in a row as a customer and if in the current hybrid era they had been a Mercedes customer rather than a Renault one they could easily have won a few more and be frontrunners this year as well.

McLaren have had a scapegoat in Honda but the whole "can't win as a customer" line that Ron was spinning in 2014 was obviously BS that was masking the team's weaknesses. It wasn't just Mercedes that were beating them in 2014, Williams were the second best Merc powered team and McLaren struggled to beat Force India all season.

There's a massive difference in being a customer of an engine supplier only & a customer of a works team. Red Bull won 4 titles because they effectively enjoyed a works relationship. There was no Renault works team during those seasons. Why on earth do you think Red Bull are so eager to switch away from Renault now, because it follows simple logic. The works team will always, always be the priority. With Honda giving them that priority the choice makes perfect sense.

FWIW, I agree McLaren is fundamentally not a good car, it's been like that for a number of years now.

I completely agree. RB enjoyed a works relationship with Renault. And apart from that, RB set up an engine department to get the most out of the Renault engine because it was behind the other engines.

RB still has a better understanding of engines than any other customer team due to its engine department.

The RB Renault relationship is pretty unique since the Renault works team was forced to withdraw after they crash in Singapore. RB was lucky to have the quasi works deal with result during the championship winning years.

Harika

OSI wrote: »

It's taken Ferrari nearly ten years to be fighting for the title again, no?

They were fighting for the title in 2008, 2010, 2012, 2017 and now 2018.
I think a better candidate is Renault who at their comeback very clearly said five years from now we want to fight for the title. And they are on track imo
Like when Zak Brown 1 1/2 year after his appointment states that he doesn't know how long it would take them to get competitive again, his job should be on the line too. Like last year they asked the shareholders to put in money so they can pay for Renault engines instead of being payed for using Honda engines. If the issue is now an internal one instead of an Honda issue, what does that say about the one who is responsible for everything internal? At Honda the upper heads rolled.

Harika

New engine and MGU-H for Alonso this morning. He’s now used his maximum allowance for the season so there will almost certainly be penalties down the line

AMKC

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I completely agree. RB enjoyed a works relationship with Renault. And apart from that, RB set up an engine department to get the most out of the Renault engine because it was behind the other engines.

RB still has a better understanding of engines than any other customer team due to its engine department.

The RB Renault relationship is pretty unique since the Renault works team was forced to withdraw after they crash in Singapore. RB was lucky to have the quasi works deal with result during the championship winning years.

since the Renault works team was forced to withdraw after they crash in Singapore

That might have played a part but I think the recession was the main reason that Renault pulled out of being a works team in F1.

skipper_G

AMKC wrote: »

since the Renault works team was forced to withdraw after they crash in Singapore

That might have played a part but I think the recession was the main reason that Renault pulled out of being a works team in F1.

If the recession was the main reason would they not have pulled out completely? As it was they remained supplying engines and their most successful customer and effectively their works team was winning all while covered in Infiniti branding with little acknowledgement of the Renault brand. And they stayed away just long enough for the stink of Singapore to fade away.

Singapore was the reason imo

Conservatory

Another great race from Perez. What a driver. Starts p12. Crashes into last place. Slowly but surely gets back into p10 and is bumped into p11 by gasly who receives a 5 second penalty for Perez to finish p10. What a man.

Adamocovic

What are peoples views on the Merc's crying that the Ferrari's and Kimi deliberately crashed into them?

Hamilton referring to it as Ferrari "tactics" suggesting it was deliberate, then Wolff coming out and saying "this is either deliberate or incompetence" which is also suggesting it's deliberate. But then Mercedes come out back-tracking claiming they didn't suggest it was deliberate. Such childish behaviour.

It was a racing incident at the beginning, one of the most common areas for someone to make a mistake. Kimi is a temperamental guy in how he deals with his team, and speaks his mind. Do they really think he'd be fine with risking his race through damage or penalties to help Vettel? And if Ferrari were able to predict Hamilton would get such a poor start that allowed Kimi this chance they are streets ahead tactically.

It's the accusations and mind-set like this that has put me off Merc's, Wolff and Hamilton.

ELM327

Conservatory wrote: »

Another great race from Perez. What a driver. Starts p12. Crashes into last place. Slowly but surely gets back into p10 and is bumped into p11 by gasly who receives a 5 second penalty for Perez to finish p10. What a man.

Out qualified by his teammate.
Beaten in the race by his teammate
Behind in the points standings to his teammate


Great job perez!

billybonkers

Adamocovic wrote: »

What are peoples views on the Merc's crying that the Ferrari's and Kimi deliberately crashed into them?

Hamilton referring to it as Ferrari "tactics" suggesting it was deliberate, then Wolff coming out and saying "this is either deliberate or incompetencethis is either deliberate or incompetence" which is also suggesting it's deliberate. But then Mercedes come out back-tracking claiming they didn't suggest it was deliberate. Such childish behaviour.

It was a racing incident at the beginning, one of the most common areas for someone to make a mistake. Kimi is a temperamental guy in how he deals with his team, and speaks his mind. Do they really think he'd be fine with risking his race through damage or penalties to help Vettel? And if Ferrari were able to predict Hamilton would get such a poor start that allowed Kimi this chance they are streets ahead tactically.

It's the accusations and mind-set like this that has put me off Merc's, Wolff and Hamilton.

Clearly a lap 1 racing incident, Kimi locked up on cold tires in crap air to the side of Ham at turn 2. Ham himself said at the press conference it was an incident not tactics

Harika

Adamocovic wrote: »

What are peoples views on the Merc's crying that the Ferrari's and Kimi deliberately crashed into them?

Always take the immediate reactions with a grain of salt, this language already softened. But then don't we want to hear the controversial stuff to rip our mouths open about it?

Inviere

France 2018 - Vettel & Bottas touch, Vettel has to pit and is last place. Carves his way through the field to an impressive 5th place - "Driver of the day, brilliant stuff!"

England 2018 - Hamilton & Kimi touch, Hamilton spins, and is last place. Carves his way through the field to an impressive 2nd place - "This is everything that's wrong with F1, it was too easy for him, all Mercedes customer teams letting him past."

Personal bias in a nutshell.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

This post has been deleted.

Adamocovic

billybonkers wrote: »

Clearly a lap 1 racing incident, Kimi locked up on cold tires in crap air to the side of Ham at turn 2. Ham himself said at the press conference it was an incident not tactics

Harika wrote: »

Always take the immediate reactions with a grain of salt, this language already softened. But then don't we want to hear the controversial stuff to rip our mouths open about it?

I get things are said in the heat of the moment but Wolff, Lauda, and Lewis are all experienced within the sport and should be well used to it at this stage.

They also must be aware that people have this complaint about them whining quite a bit yet still played into it.

Fair enough putting your hand up and saying it was said in the heat of the moment and you over-reacted, and apologies if they did, but from what I've heard and read they made all these thinly veiled accusations of it being deliberately planned and done by Ferrari, then came out denying that is what they meant to save face.

I'm not their biggest fan as is, so maybe I'm bias, but it's things like this that just cement by opinion towards them. All extremely talented but I don't like their constant whining and bemoaning.

Some may argue this could be applied to most drivers, and it is true, maybe one of the reasons I'm a big fan of Leclerc is because he's been handling himself very well in terms of not complaining and whining when it doesn't go his way, like Stroll or others do.

Lewis is an outstanding driver, and will go down as one of the best of all time, but he is also one of the most "everyone's against me", self-pitying driver there is.

muckwarrior

It's exactly the kind of crap I'd expect from Lewis, but I'm surprised that others in the team have stooped that low. I wonder are they just trying to lick his hole while they try to get him to sign a new contract.

Conservatory

ELM327 wrote: »

Out qualified by his teammate.
Beaten in the race by his teammate
Behind in the points standings to his teammate


Great job perez!

He had bad luck with a crash. I think he would have passed ocon again like last weekwithout it. I think his car is set up slightly slower than ocon to play to his tyre saving strengths.

ELM327

He's a mediocre driver in a mediocre team and is being beaten by a younger driver.
He had his shot at the big time a few years ago and couldnt hack it.

Perez is just picking up the paychecks until he can retire a rich man.

Conservatory

ELM327 wrote: »

He's a mediocre driver in a mediocre team and is being beaten by a younger driver.
He had his shot at the big time a few years ago and couldnt hack it.

Perez is just picking up the paychecks until he can retire a rich man.

So are you saying Alonso must be past it now being ina big team and all.

Harika

Rumourtime
Vandoorne seems to be safe. Last week Lando Norris was basically set to replace him, but with Gil de Ferran now promoted and Stoffel dating his daughter he might be more secure

McLaren scrapped the Indycar team for 2019 as the performance and management crisis caused Zak Brown to be overruled

Sainz to stay at Renault

Porsche is getting closer to announcement for 2021

Liberty wants to buy Indycar

F1 calendar expand to 23 races