Formula 1 2018: General Discussion Thread

AMKC

meeeeh wrote: »

I like Sky, I just don't overly like Croft. Why would I watch C4.

So you don't have to listen to Croft and because when C4 is on live it is better than Sky.

H3llR4iser

Palmer has a point and it's wrong to dismiss his views because he was "dumped by Renault". Afterall if one wanted to take that stance, the vast majority of the commentators should just shut up and stay home, as technically none of them is "qualified" to comment on a 4xWDC:

- Herbert lucked into 3 race wins when basically everyone around him retired, and was soundly beaten by every single team mate he had;

- Anthony Davidson...barely even drove in F1; Same for Paul Di Resta;

- Brundle won exactly the same number of F1 Grand Prix as I did, which is 0, and was mostly famous for never looking in his mirrors; funnily enough, he keeps claiming they are "as useful as ashtrays", despite plenty of evidence of the contrary (exhibit A: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=46&v=m3DY7HIjXMc - they seem pretty darn sharp and useful to me, certainly not worse than those on most road cars);

I could go on and on. Palmer isn't making stuff up - Hamilton's not being...well, Hamilton, at least in terms of driving (the complaining and "your fault!" attitude, these aren't new). He seems to be in one of these "working holidays" phases he used to go onto in the past seasons, which nearly costed him the title in 2014 and definitely contributed to his loss of the title in 2016. He will likely soon "shake" himself out of it - if not in Baku (where, according to the data collected so far, Ferrari should have the engine/speed advantage, in a twist of last year's situation), from the beginning of the EU season. But for now, it does ring true - he seems to be "going along with the current".

skipper_G

Palmer is right in a way, but it's not new for Hamilton to be a bit sulky on the radio. Many drivers are the same as well mind you.

I do think he is not as comfortable in the car this season, but it's not all him. There are real question marks over the car's driveability for me. Could the changes to oil burning brought in this season have impacted Mercedes more than they let on? They are not the dominant engine, Ferrari topping speed charts on a regular basis. Is it coincidence that both Mercedes customer teams are last in the championship?

skipper_G

flazio wrote: »

Unless you have access to Eir Sport, in which all races are live with Channel 4 commentary, just no punditry either side of the sessions.

I would rather take my money and burn it than give it to eir.

I have sky but I generally watch C4 for their live races because I prefer the team they have. Not so much Croft, but Kravitz is a stain on the underwear that is F1 journalism

supremenovice

astrofluff wrote: »

I'd respect any commentator who stands up and says they are pro anybody. At least that way we accept they'll be like that rather than them pretending to be unbiased!

I remember Coulthard once saying that Lewis Hamilton "transcends the sport".
Oh how I threw up!

mickdw

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Palmer has a point and it's wrong to dismiss his views because he was "dumped by Renault". Afterall if one wanted to take that stance, the vast majority of the commentators should just shut up and stay home, as technically none of them is "qualified" to comment on a 4xWDC:

- Herbert lucked into 3 race wins when basically everyone around him retired, and was soundly beaten by every single team mate he had;

- Anthony Davidson...barely even drove in F1; Same for Paul Di Resta;

- Brundle won exactly the same number of F1 Grand Prix as I did, which is 0, and was mostly famous for never looking in his mirrors; funnily enough, he keeps claiming they are "as useful as ashtrays", despite plenty of evidence of the contrary (exhibit A: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=46&v=m3DY7HIjXMc - they seem pretty darn sharp and useful to me, certainly not worse than those on most road cars);

I could go on and on. Palmer isn't making stuff up - Hamilton's not being...well, Hamilton, at least in terms of driving (the complaining and "your fault!" attitude, these aren't new). He seems to be in one of these "working holidays" phases he used to go onto in the past seasons, which nearly costed him the title in 2014 and definitely contributed to his loss of the title in 2016. He will likely soon "shake" himself out of it - if not in Baku (where, according to the data collected so far, Ferrari should have the engine/speed advantage, in a twist of last year's situation), from the beginning of the EU season. But for now, it does ring true - he seems to be "going along with the current".

Herbert won grand prix having come back from a horrific accident that could have caused the loss of both legs. That's a pretty incredible achievement.

Davidson I believe was wec champion so a high level world champion in his own right.

Brundle didn't win a race but was a top class driver. His time as senna rival tells up plenty about his class.
As Schumacher team mate, he has some good results but like always, Schumacher got first call on everything.

Faugheen

mickdw wrote: »

To be fair Hamilton needs calling out on his behaviour. As soon as something goes wrong, he is on the radio basically blaming the team. It wouldn't surprise me if he insists that people leave his team after some of these races.
He sounds like an absolute child at times. Of course sky don't make reference to this at all.

Ah here, what Hamilton does is no different to the likes of Kimi, Alonso, Max, Vettel, even Ricciardo.

Don't tell me Hamilton is the worst either, Alonso is by far the worst when it comes to whinging on the radio.

It's fair to call Hamilton out on it but don't act like he's the only one doing it. Whenever Kimi does it we find it funny.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

This post has been deleted.

mickdw

Faugheen wrote: »

mickdw wrote: »

To be fair Hamilton needs calling out on his behaviour. As soon as something goes wrong, he is on the radio basically blaming the team. It wouldn't surprise me if he insists that people leave his team after some of these races.
He sounds like an absolute child at times. Of course sky don't make reference to this at all.

Ah here, what Hamilton does is no different to the likes of Kimi, Alonso, Max, Vettel, even Ricciardo.

Don't tell me Hamilton is the worst either, Alonso is by far the worst when it comes to whinging on the radio.

It's fair to call Hamilton out on it but don't act like he's the only one doing it. Whenever Kimi does it we find it funny.

I think you miss the point. Vettel whinges about blue flags and other drivers mostly. He had a go at a the team a few times but was justified if I remember right.
Alonso had valid reason to complain.
Kim is Kimi. He does what he likes.
I don't recall max or d ricciardo complaining like kids.
Hamilton on the other hand spits the dummy when it goes wrong and immediately blames the team in a very public way.

H3llR4iser

mickdw wrote: »

Herbert won grand prix having come back from a horrific accident that could have caused the loss of both legs. That's a pretty incredible achievement.

Davidson I believe was wec champion so a high level world champion in his own right.

Brundle didn't win a race but was a top class driver. His time as senna rival tells up plenty about his class.
As Schumacher team mate, he has some good results but like always, Schumacher got first call on everything.

Missing the point entirely, which is that to dismiss an idea because it comes from somebody that isn't at the same level, as a driver, as the one they're talking about is a stupid attitude. If that was reasonable, we shouldn't be talking about any of it here, and the only ones who could say anything would be Prost and Vettel. There are other pundits who achieved very little in F1 and yet are well respected as commentators, there's no reason to slag a concept and not even consider it just because it comes from Palmer (which, if we want to go outside F1, did indeed win the GP2 series in a pretty dominant fashion).

I'm no fan of Jolyon, but as a racing driver he's bound to at least have a bit of an understanding of the game, which can't be said of us "armchair experts" on an internet forum.

skipper_G

There was a strategy group meeting yesterday, few interesting points came up.

For 2019 they will increase the race fuel allowance by 5kg so drivers can use the engine at full power at all times during the race. The weight of the car and driver (80kg minimum) will be separated. Drivers will also use biometric gloves to help the medical teams in the event of an accident.

And the FIA presented their 2021 engine regulations proposal. Same one that was revealed at Bahrain, 1.6-litre V6 turbo hybrid with no MGU-H. There was comment about the research being done into overtaking, but no concrete findings, discussions ongoing and decision hopes to be made by end of the month.

Rossi IRL

Hamilton when he wins, praises his team.

Hamilton when he has a bad result, moans at his team.

Complete non story, all others drivers in winning teams are the same.

Frank Bullitt

https://streamable.com/zatfk

Fernando Alonso, ladies and gentlemen, just driving the long way around some Force Indias.

Cookie_Monster

skipper_G wrote: »

For 2019 they will increase the race fuel allowance by 5kg so drivers can use the engine at full power at all times during the race. The weight of the car and driver (80kg minimum) will be separated.

Pointless. Teams don't use the full fuel allowance as it is becuase its better to undefill and coast. How is more allowance going to change that? They need to make the allowance a minimum amount too in order for it to work correctly

skipper_G

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Pointless. Teams don't use the full fuel allowance as it is becuase its better to undefill and coast. How is more allowance going to change that? They need to make the allowance a minimum amount too in order for it to work correctly

It makes sense from the FIA perspective, fans won't be able to blame the rules when they're having a moan about fuel saving, they will have to blame the teams instead.

eviltimeban

Gintonious wrote: »

https://streamable.com/zatfk

Fernando Alonso, ladies and gentlemen, just driving the long way around some Force Indias.

That was great.

H3llR4iser

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Pointless. Teams don't use the full fuel allowance as it is becuase its better to undefill and coast. How is more allowance going to change that? They need to make the allowance a minimum amount too in order for it to work correctly

Also, with only three engines per season they don't want to push them.

Again, they're messing up with the wrong stuff - there is no need whatsoever to make the cars "go faster" for the sake of it, regardless of what the "fans" say; From the trackside (and the TV), people can't tell the difference if they lap in the 1'25" or 1'35" range. Slower series have plenty of on track action.

The last two races have been decent not because drivers were hammering "pedal to the metal" every lap, but because of the different approaches and strategies; A good idea would be to remove the "use at least 2 different tire compounds per race" rule and see what strategists come up with.

If they really want to do something in terms of engine usage / ability to push, then get rid of the "3 PU / season" rules - have engines last a race week end, possibly with a simplified design (no MGU-H for example, but they're already working on it). Who knows, it may turn out cheaper - a "use and scrap" engine could cost considerably less than the current ultra-refined, durable ones.

El_Duderino 09

supremenovice wrote: »

I remember Coulthard once saying that Lewis Hamilton "transcends the sport".
Oh how I threw up!

That’s a bit OTT. but he is the top talent in the sport though his form in the last 2 races isn’t great. Imagine if the best driver was Irish. We’d spend all day praising him. I don’t think anyone looks back at the Irvine and Jordan era and complains about the fact to Irish bias.

I never mind the commentators. I use the F1 live timing app so my attention is divided between the tv and live timing.

I don’t think I’ve ever noticed Croft’s catchphrase at the beginning of the race. Who has time to listen to that when the entire field is jockeying for position ?

Mike Litoris

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I don’t think I’ve ever noticed Croft’s catchphrase at the beginning of the race. Who has time to listen to that when the entire field is jockeying for position ?

Edwards uses the same phrase at most race starts. He is no where near as annoying though. Crofts awful voice and shouty delivery annoys me more than his mistakes.

Joeseph Balls

Mike Litoris wrote: »

Edwards uses the same phrase at most race starts. He is no where near as annoying though. Crofts awful voice and shouty delivery annoys me more than his mistakes.

I thought Ben used it first, kind of his thing. "Lights out, away we go". Found it wierd sky started with same. Open to correction though.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

This post has been deleted.

eviltimeban

Croft at least is better than Jonathan Leggard and James Allen.

What's missing from Sky is Jake Humphrey - he was far more compelling than Simon Lazenby is. Simon is kind of dull. These days I'm skipping the whole pre-show (which I used to watch all of) in favour of going straight to the race - I just don't have time anymore to spend 3 hours camped on front of the TV! (that's what kids'll do for ya).

H3llR4iser

skipper_G wrote: »

...

For 2019 they will increase the race fuel allowance by 5kg so drivers can use the engine at full power at all times during the race. The weight of the car and driver (80kg minimum) will be separated. Drivers will also use biometric gloves to help the medical teams in the event of an accident.

...

Took me a while to understand that and had to research it, because at a first glance it looked like a steady diet of fryups and takeaways would be on the cards for the smaller guys over winter

As far as I can understand, there'll be two minimum weights - one for the car without driver, one for the driver + harness (including the seat). This way, lighter drivers will lose the advantage of being able to place more ballast strategically in the car.

In order for the driver to reach the minimum weight of 80kg, ballast will be put in the seat (in other words, there will be a "minimum80kg mass" that needs to be in the cockpit).

El_Duderino 09

H3llR4iser wrote: »

skipper_G wrote: »

...

For 2019 they will increase the race fuel allowance by 5kg so drivers can use the engine at full power at all times during the race. The weight of the car and driver (80kg minimum) will be separated. Drivers will also use biometric gloves to help the medical teams in the event of an accident.

...

Took me a while to understand that and had to research it, because at a first glance it looked like a steady diet of fryups and takeaways would be on the cards for the smaller guys over winter

As far as I can understand, there'll be two minimum weights - one for the car without driver, one for the driver + harness (including the seat). This way, lighter drivers will lose the advantage of being able to place more ballast strategically in the car.

In order for the driver to reach the minimum weight of 80kg, ballast will be put in the seat (in other words, there will be a "minimum80kg mass" that needs to be in the cockpit).

That’s great news. Driver weight is such a random advantage to have. Hulk has always been heavier than most drivers and it cost him. Sutil tried not using a drink bottle in a race to save a kilo weight. He neatly passed out.

Mike Litoris

eviltimeban wrote: »

Croft at least is better than Jonathan Leggard and James Allen.

They're all as terrible as each other imo. The James Allen years were rough with the MS/FIArrari dominance and his obvious love for the driver and team. That and the overtaking drought made it so hard to watch that I switched off for most of 04.

skipper_G

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Took me a while to understand that and had to research it, because at a first glance it looked like a steady diet of fryups and takeaways would be on the cards for the smaller guys over winter

As far as I can understand, there'll be two minimum weights - one for the car without driver, one for the driver + harness (including the seat). This way, lighter drivers will lose the advantage of being able to place more ballast strategically in the car.

In order for the driver to reach the minimum weight of 80kg, ballast will be put in the seat (in other words, there will be a "minimum80kg mass" that needs to be in the cockpit).

Yeah I just threw in the headlines and didn't go into detail. Your description is right, and it's a long overdue change.

Adamocovic

eviltimeban wrote: »

Croft at least is better than Jonathan Leggard and James Allen.

What's missing from Sky is Jake Humphrey - he was far more compelling than Simon Lazenby is. Simon is kind of dull. These days I'm skipping the whole pre-show (which I used to watch all of) in favour of going straight to the race - I just don't have time anymore to spend 3 hours camped on front of the TV! (that's what kids'll do for ya).

Channel 4 F1 is still my favourite.

When Steve Jones began he first annoyed me but I've become a fan. He's an oddball but at least entertainment is guaranteed!

AMKC

Adamocovic wrote: »

Channel 4 F1 is still my favourite.

When Steve Jones began he first annoyed me but I've become a fan. He's an oddball but at least entertainment is guaranteed!

I prefered the BBC line up the most. Steve Jones is ok. He is not the worst but does tend to overdo things at times especially the introductions.

mickdw

The BBC show was fantastic. It brought f1 coverage forward years.
The main crew were brilliant and they put together a good show. Then you had the red button show which in their early days was super. They would be based in various teams hospitality area each race and would have a brilliant line up of guests and it tended to feel quite free. Sky had the same opportunity but they seem to stick very much to a set formula now - feed in all the interviews from love segments with Simon then cut to teds notebook.
I think teds notebook should be confined to quali and something more special put there instead.
Remember Eddie Jordan in the red bull pool......

skipper_G

For those of you who enjoy a fantasy game, F1 is getting in on the act officially

The link
https://fantasy.formula1.com/

Some additional background from Joe Saward's blog
https://www.motorsportweek.com/joesaward/id/00208