Disposable Income Gone

bottlebrush

I work with a lot of girls in their late twenties and early thirties. their average income is 25,000 a year. all are either married or living with partners, none of them renting so all with mortgages. no problem with disposable income - they can all go to concerts, meals out, one or two city breaks abroad as well as main holiday in the sun during the year, new outfits all the time not to mention the regular what now seems necessity of getting the nails, fake tan and teeth whitening done. partners are not in high paying jobs either.
don't live in Dublin admittedly but no problems for this age group from what I can see unless of course they're up to their necks in debt but I genuinely don't think so. I know when I was their age and living and working in Dublin and on much better money I couldn't have done all of the above - I had to make choices.

kerryjack

I bought a 21 inch TV and video back in 1985 cost a months wages

ihope

Irish spending habits are different from their non-Irish counterparts in same income profile in europe, impulsive shopping and habits internalized since childhood are to blame. A decade ago I looked at my shopping and the trolley of lady/gent in front of me I could never figure out how they managed to fill it all up till it was ready to explode. Even someone with way less disposable income than me was shopping loads.

Its easy to buy junk, when you are surrounded by it. When I want to desist, I try to stick to the list. There's a conti-europe co-worker who whenever we bump into at grocery stores would only have fresh fruits and vegetable and such essential and healthy stuff, never seen him buy any easy to eat junk.

Always be wary of buying of junk and impulsive shopping in front of your kids is a good way to ensure they do not grab a shiny packet as easily

Buy a sensible car which takes you from point a to point b
Buy a house which is enough for your needs
Always think of buffers for adverse circumstances (hope for the best, be prepared for the worst)
Be utilitarian to start with and fulfill your desires as the buffers increase in subsequent decades

Geuze

deathtocaptcha wrote: »

Most people earn under €30k/year yet the average 3 bed semi in Dublin is €400k... they'll get a mortgage for €105k assuming they have a €40k deposit. Buying a cheaper car, quitting coffee, making your own lunch etc... is all well and good but let's face it, it isn't going to result in you saving €255k needed to buy your own home...

Mean earnings for full time workers in 2016 = 45-46k

Median earnings for FT workers in 2014 = 41,829

Geuze

Stheno wrote: »

The average industrial wage is approx. 37k so a couple on that would qualify for a mortgage of 260 with a deposit of 26k if they were first time buyers

That's a total of 286k there are properties in Dublin for that particularly apartments

AIW not published anymore.

Average earnings are 36-37 k.

Average FT earnings are 45-46k.

Average hourly earnings are 22 per hour approx.

All data include irregular earnings.

Median earnings are 20.20 per hour.

ArchXStanton

We're just falling into line with the rest of the plebs in the world...one paycheck away from sleeping on a park bench

noodler

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Mayne your should ask them not to spend 800 euro on their I phones while making the billionaires more billionairey.

Sure a phone every couple of years hardly equates to the TVs, fancy furniture, cars and multiple holidays the generations before could manage.

Where did this myth come from that a smartphone is the reason for young people today have little disposable income?

CIP4

Was thinking about this recently enough I am 23 only finished college last year 1.5 years in the full time working world while I think I am on a decent salary for my age my parents always thought me the value of money and regular saving or at minimum having a rainy day fund.

The way I am I couldn’t spend all my wages if I tried I would have to just take the piss and buy stupid stuff to do it. I save about 45% of it. Out of the rest pay rent, food have a small car loan on a fairly new car which I’ll have paid off some stage next year at that stage I’ll be able to save 60% of my net salary and that’s aside from paying into a pension. I pay for breakfast and lunch at work everyday don’t bring it in or make it. Don’t shop in Lidl aldi generally go out at least once a week to do some social activity. Eat out a bit. Only think I don’t do really is go to coffee shops as I don’t drink it. I have a new iPhone I got this year probably change them ever 3 years laptop maybe every 5 years.

I was in work recently and a guy a few years older than me on a good bit more money was complaining how he would make it to the next pay day that he was broke and I just couldn’t figure out where his wages were going.

So to me a lot of it is just being able to manage your money and not completely loose the run of yourself buying excessive amounts of stuff like clothes gadgets the whole time. It works well for me should have my own house around 25 would be looking for one around the 200k mark. The drive for me is I just wouldn’t sleep at night if I didn’t have a savings buffer wouldn’t be able to deal with living week to week. Once you get into the habit of saving and cutting unnecessary spending it’s easy to do.

I appreciate living in Dublin has its own challenges I live down the country where house prices and rent is lower.

Macy0161

Macy0161 wrote: »

I'd say we've a lost generation who are poor at managing money to a degree too, maybe because of the money around in their formative years, as well as issues like rent.

Buying out for breaks, buying out for lunches - I see a lot in my place burning through guts of €15 a day on coffees, scones, lunches and soft drinks just during office hours. In my day, we brought in lunches, made our own tea, and spent that money more productively on smokes and drink!

Where I work there is a coffee machine that is "probably"* as good as the one in the coffee shops that is provided for staff to have unlimited free coffee. Yet still some people will buy a coffee and walk in with it!

I can't say if it is as good as the shop coffee as I just have the free tea.

DivingDuck

noodler wrote: »

Sure a phone every couple of years hardly equates to the TVs, fancy furniture, cars and multiple holidays the generations before could manage.

Where did this myth come from that a smartphone is the reason for young people today have little disposable income?

Are you talking exclusively about people during the boom years?

When I was growing up in the 80s, there was one TV in the house. Our furniture was hilariously hideous, and always older than me. When both my parents were working we did by necessity have two cars, but there were points when I was very young where we had no car at all. Like every other kid I knew, the majority of my holidays involved a caravan; the rare times they didn't, I was the envy of all my mates.

My parents certainly didn't have TVs, cars, or holidays of any description when they were growing up. Neither did my grandparents. Unless you're talking about the period from, say, 1996 through 2006, most previous Irish generations had a very rough life compared to anyone who has the time and facilities to be posting on Boards today.

pilly

server down wrote:

Maybe it’s because a lot of Dubliners don’t rent.

What?

nkav86

KevinOD88 wrote:

Last example, people pay 15 quids an hour to pet cats in a "cat cafe" in Smithfield...

I live near Smithfield, how did I not know this? Most bizarre thing I've ever heard!

_Brian

Lia_lia wrote: »

A lot of it is to do with the cost of rent etc but some people are just genuinely awful with money. I have friends and colleagues (most have no kids and are in their late 20's early 30's) that would be earning 40K+ and I can't believe the way spend their money on various things.

Smartphones that cost €800+, lots of online clothes shopping, holidays booked through travel agents where they could get them cheaper by booking online, Sky TV, eating out and getting take-aways most days of the week, brand new cars on PCP...and the list goes on. Fair enough if you can afford these things and still have money left over to save. But the people I know spend all this money, save absolutely none of it and usually have a few loans. Then they give out about the cost of living, the government and never being able to get a mortgage.

This post !!
People waste a huge portion of their income.

goodluckduck

One thing that is definitely true is that wages have totally stagnated for non-professional or 'unskilled' (hate that term) jobs.

I have a mate who was unemployed for a while and is currently working a security job for €10 an hour. He's early 30s, and I remember in our group when we were 15/16 we were all working handy jobs (shops, bars etc) for around the same wage or only a bit less.

hurler32

goodluckduck wrote: »

One thing that is definitely true is that wages have totally stagnated for non-professional or 'unskilled' (hate that term) jobs.

I have a mate who was unemployed for a while and is currently working a security job for €10 an hour. He's early 30s, and I remember in our group when we were 15/16 we were all working handy jobs (shops, bars etc) for around the same wage or only a bit less.

This is the point I am making ... fine in 2017 if your a software engineer or have a semi state Job in ESB your laughing but the honest unskilled Joe soap that worked as a labourer on a building site or in Dunne's stores for example had much more spending power 20 or indeed 10 years ago ....
East Europeans prepared to work for minimum wage and greedy employers are 2 reasons this has occurred .....
A friend works on the buildings in Dublin labouring , 20 years ago all his equals would be dubs , lads from Wicklow , wexford who would rear a family and go out a few nights .... now the vast majority are from Lithuania etc ... living 4 to a room in some backstreet bedroom who drink a few cans smoking rollies in their shared bedroom at the weekend ... meanwhile the employers getting richer and richer .....
Could the employer not slow down in his quest to be a billionaire and pay lads a reasonable wage rather than have to get lads from the poorest part of the EU to work for minimum wage ?

Wanderer78

hurler32 wrote: »

This is the point I am making ... fine in 2017 if your a software engineer or have a semi state Job in ESB your laughing but the honest unskilled Joe soap that worked as a labourer on a building site or in Dunne's stores for example had much more spending power 20 or indeed 10 years ago ....
East Europeans prepared to work for minimum wage and greedy employers are 2 reasons this has occurred .....
A friend works on the buildings in Dublin labouring , 20 years ago all his equals would be dubs , lads from Wicklow , wexford who would rear a family and go out a few nights .... now the vast majority are from Lithuania etc ... living 4 to a room in some backstreet bedroom who drink a few cans smoking rollies in their shared bedroom at the weekend ... meanwhile the employers getting richer and richer .....
Could the employer not slow down in his quest to be a billionaire and pay lads a reasonable wage rather than have to get lads from the poorest part of the EU to work for minimum wage ?

maybe its got to do with our implementation of neoliberial/neoclassic-ally based economic policies?

screamer

Well if they think they've no disposable income when young free and single...just wait till the childcare costs come into play. They'll be lucky to find the disposable income to get out 2 to 3 times a year!

screamer

Oh yeah a labourer on a building site is paid ridiculous amounts of money for unskilled labour. You'll not get a labourer to work for less than six hundred quid a week in their hand after taxes etc....

_Brian

hurler32 wrote: »

This is the point I am making ... fine in 2017 if your a software engineer or have a semi state Job in ESB your laughing but the honest unskilled Joe soap that worked as a labourer on a building site or in Dunne's stores for example had much more spending power 20 or indeed 10 years ago ....
East Europeans prepared to work for minimum wage and greedy employers are 2 reasons this has occurred .....
A friend works on the buildings in Dublin labouring , 20 years ago all his equals would be dubs , lads from Wicklow , wexford who would rear a family and go out a few nights .... now the vast majority are from Lithuania etc ... living 4 to a room in some backstreet bedroom who drink a few cans smoking rollies in their shared bedroom at the weekend ... meanwhile the employers getting richer and richer .....
Could the employer not slow down in his quest to be a billionaire and pay lads a reasonable wage rather than have to get lads from the poorest part of the EU to work for minimum wage ?

I’m in my mid 40’s and as long as I remember at school the mantra was get an education or trade or you’ll be left behind.
Never before has education and upskilling been so widely available.

My parents made huge sacrifices to ensure any of us who wanted an education or trade got it.

People moaning now that basic manual jobs don’t provide a lifestyle are deluding themselves as it’s noones fault but their own.

twinytwo

There are 3 major issues issues.

1. The amount of tax that is payed in their country - either direct or indirect - for which we get little for. Id love to know the % of tax that is used to service the public service wage and pension bill?? - the pension bill itself is another massive disaster waiting to happen.

2. Housing being seen as a income generator - we can thank bertie for that one.

3. The sheer level of greed in this country, which seems to drive everything.

Wanderer78

_Brian wrote: »

I’m in my mid 40’s and as long as I remember at school the mantra was get an education or trade or you’ll be left behind.
Never before has education and upskilling been so widely available.

My parents made huge sacrifices to ensure any of us who wanted an education or trade got it.

People moaning now that basic manual jobs don’t provide a lifestyle are deluding themselves as it’s noones fault but their own.

this is changing, more and more well educated people are now falling into the bracket of 'the have nots', this is very evident in countries such as america, with many young ending with relatively high levels of high education but high levels of debt. sadly we re following similar/same economic approaches, which is/will lead to similar outcomes.

The J Stands for Jay

mdmix wrote: »

i get what your saying. they should save that money instead, and in just 10 short years they could have enough for half the deposit for a mortgage! wouldn't be enough for one of those "affordable houses" that Leo was telling us about, maybe something in Leitrim though.

If they invested it for 10 years they would be a hell of a lot closer to the deposit.

lisasimpson

Some not all people have this self entitlement of wantibg everything here and now...and not in dublin all over the country. I know of one person who turned down a job mid 30k range coz it wasnt enough to live on and stayed on the dole but still has to have an iphone etc. No amount of money will ever be enough

One of the buggest educations i got was moving out off home at 17 for uni.. I had to learn to budget and make whatever money i had go a long way...once i finished i worked with people who were still living at home and broke a week before every pay they...when i bought my car same people kept going on i must be loaded farmers daughter etc.. i was in the habit of budgeting and saving.. at the same time i was putting away x on pay day into savings while still paying rent going on hols etc...thing was we didnt have much growing up second hand clothes etc and my mum thought us if you look after the pennies the pounds look after themselves

Wanderer78

lisasimpson wrote: »

Some not all people have this self entitlement of wantibg everything here and now...and not in dublin all over the country. I know of one person who turned down a job mid 30k range coz it wasnt enough to live on and stayed on the dole but still has to have an iphone etc. No amount of money will ever be enough

One of the buggest educations i got was moving out off home at 17 for uni.. I had to learn to budget and make whatever money i had go a long way...once i finished i worked with people who were still living at home and broke a week before every pay they...when i bought my car same people kept going on i must be loaded farmers daughter etc.. i was in the habit of budgeting and saving.. at the same time i was putting away x on pay day into savings while still paying rent going on hols etc...thing was we didnt have much growing up second hand clothes etc and my mum thought us if you look after the pennies the pounds look after themselves

why dont we teach more essential life skills in our educational system?

MRnotlob606

What about precarious work? zero-hour contracts, and jobs not paying enough? but no people have haplessly put it down to poor business management because we know that the baby boomers were so good at managing their money they decided to throw it away on grossly over priced houses and create a housing and credit bubble.

Geuze

twinytwo wrote: »

There are 3 major issues issues.

1. The amount of tax that is payed in their country - either direct or indirect - for which we get little for. Id love to know the % of tax that is used to service the public service wage and pension bill?? - the pension bill itself is another massive disaster waiting to happen.

.

PS pay and pensions is about 18-20 bn, about 30% of Govt revenues.

Rough figures.

lisasimpson

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

What about precarious work? zero-hour contracts, and jobs not paying enough? but no people have haplessly put it down to poor business management because we know that the baby boomers were so good at managing their money they decided to throw it away on grossly over priced houses and create a housing and credit bubble.

That is true zero hr contracts are a joke ans people are messed about on them

But i think you will find some of biggest moaners of having no money left can be people who dont work in such jobs...all you had to do is look at this crowded house on rte recent to see a couple of examples

Tigerandahalf

Working terms for new entrants have definitely fallen. A huge gap is emerging between conditions of older and new entrant workers.

I think in the long run workers in Britain will benefit from Brexit. No longer will employers have a cheap flow of labour at their disposal.

Short term the cost of living will go up and sterling will go down.

This will force property investors out of London etc and cheaper property will be available for workers.

Many of the problems today are more about security/guaranteed hours.
A lot of employers in England were only hiring workers for <20 hours a week as it meant they didn't have to pay employers' prsi.

I was talking to a lad who left working in Aldi as he wasn't getting full hours and thus couldn't get a mortgage.

Years back workers had the advantage as so many jobs were labour intensive. But with machinery and now robots less and less labour is required.

In time I wonder if the working week will be cut or will 2 workers share the 1 job?

Ronaldinho

Wanderer78 wrote: »

why dont we teach more essential life skills in our educational system?

Is that not part of parenting?

_Brian

Wanderer78 wrote: »

this is changing, more and more well educated people are now falling into the bracket of 'the have nots', this is very evident in countries such as america, with many young ending with relatively high levels of high education but high levels of debt. sadly we re following similar/same economic approaches, which is/will lead to similar outcomes.

The problem here is the snowflakes who want everything, preferably without working for it or making an effort like savings and cutting back on luxuries.

I know a chap who dropped out of college because he couldn’t be bothered. Married but his wife won’t work, just pop’d out the third kid he works a factory job in €12.50 and hour and they are on FIS.
But they moan they can’t afford everything they’d like, jealous of those going on holidays. Would love to build a house but not a hope of getting the money - ever.
People like this need to look at themselves before moaning about everything, I see them both on social media bitching about the government not creating housing and employment opportunities.