Disposable Income Gone

Dohnjoe

storker wrote: »

I do have sympathy, however, for those hammered by high house prices and rents, and I don;t think shrugging shoulders and saying "Oh well, it's the market, what can you do?" is really good enough.

What workable solutions do you propose?

whisky_galore

Dohnjoe wrote: »

What workable solutions do you propose?

I don't think there is any solution, so long as people f*ck each other over and milk the system to their own advantage which is the natural order of things here. Too many vested interests at play.

storker

Dohnjoe wrote: »

What workable solutions do you propose?

I don't know. It's not my area of expertise. But I don't need to be a qualified mechanic to know when my car isn't running properly either. I do know, though, that it wasn't always this bad. I also know that human beings have solved seemingly-insurmountable problems before. We put men on the moon, we have a telescope in space than can look at galaxies unimaginable distances away, we've cured countless diseases and can take organs from a dead body and use them to save someone's life, we've invented a communications system that can link people in difference continents in a fraction of a second.

I refuse to believe that the housing problem can't be solved either, in such a way as it actually works for...call me crazy...those who actually live in the houses. Other countries have managed this, and if we can't it must surely be because the people who can change it don't want to, and most people who aren't directly affected don't care.

whisky_galore

storker wrote: »

Other countries have managed this, and if we can't it must surely be because the people who can change it don't want to, and most people who aren't directly affected don't care.

That's it, in nutshell.

We'll turn out and protest water charges and abortion alright....how many housing crisis marches have we seen??

A lot of weeping and gnashing of teeth in the media, and how it's an awful shame, and that's about it.

Hollister11

server down wrote: »

Nonsense argument. The iPhone and other smart phones probably save money as people don’t need to buy music but instead stream it.

That’s not where disposable income is going.

Do they **** save money. Top of the range phones cost the guts of a grand.

I'm 21, and unless I get a top smart phone through work, I will never buy one. They are a waste of money.

I currently have a one plus 2. It cost me €305, and I have it almost 2 years. I'll probably get a other 18 months out of it functioning pretty well.

My next phone will be an average phone costing similar money.

Stone Deaf 4evr

whisky_galore wrote: »

That's it, in nutshell.

We'll turn out and protest water charges and abortion alright....how many housing crisis marches have we seen??

A lot of weeping and gnashing of teeth in the media, and how it's an awful shame, and that's about it.

If we started turfing out a few lads like the chap who sued for falling on the tiles outside of his state provided house, they wouldn't be long rallying the government to sort out the housing crisis. Those type of people dream big, and achieve the inconcievable.

whisky_galore

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

If we started turfing out a few lads like the chap who sued for falling on the tiles outside of his state provided house, they wouldn't be long rallying the government to sort out the housing crisis. Those type of people dream big, and achieve the inconcievable.

I'm not familiar with that incident, but as we already know, chancing your arm/acting the cute hoor goes across all social strands here, to the detriment of society as a whole. I don't think that is one national trait that can be weeded out very easily.

Shenshen

whisky_galore wrote: »

Parents were supposed to impart this, why aren't they doing that now?

Plus all of the above is now easily found with the smartphone that almost everyone has in the palm of their hand, there really is no excuse.

Well, who was/is teaching the parents?
It's not like knowledge about budgeting and prudent financial behaviour suddenly miraculously imprints on the brain of a person just because they had offspring.
Personal finances and economics are getting more and more complicated, with more and more silly things out there you could lose your money on, and we have to start somewhere with educating people. Why not start in schools, where you have easy access to a captive audience?

storker

Shenshen wrote: »

Well, who was/is teaching the parents?
It's not like knowledge about budgeting and prudent financial behaviour suddenly miraculously imprints on the brain of a person just because they had offspring.
Personal finances and economics are getting more and more complicated, with more and more silly things out there you could lose your money on, and we have to start somewhere with educating people. Why not start in schools, where you have easy access to a captive audience?

Agreed. I don't believe in leaving it all to the schools, but saying "let the parents teach it" assumes that the parents actually know what they're talking about. Let's now forget that the extent of many of peoples' knowledge about such matters amounts to something they heard the other night down the pub or read somewhere on the Internet.

Dohnjoe

storker wrote: »

I don't know. It's not my area of expertise. But I don't need to be a qualified mechanic to know when my car isn't running properly either. I do know, though, that it wasn't always this bad. I also know that human beings have solved seemingly-insurmountable problems before. We put men on the moon, we have a telescope in space than can look at galaxies unimaginable distances away, we've cured countless diseases and can take organs from a dead body and use them to save someone's life, we've invented a communications system that can link people in difference continents in a fraction of a second.

I refuse to believe that the housing problem can't be solved either, in such a way as it actually works for...call me crazy...those who actually live in the houses. Other countries have managed this, and if we can't it must surely be because the people who can change it don't want to, and most people who aren't directly affected don't care.

Fair enough - but the reality is there is little the govt can do that they aren't already doing

Taxing and subsidising just shifts the burden around slightly. At the end of the day the housing market is largely up to us. People are buying and renting the properties and people are selling and renting out the properties.

The prices are high - but we've pushed them there.

BrokenArrows

grahambo wrote: »

This is par for the course all over the country and indeed the world.

I'm just out of a long term relationship (had a kid and mortgage with the other person)
I ended up moving out, and I'm living back at home because I literally cannot afford to rent a place....

I'm 34 years old with a very good Job....

15 years ago I'd have been able to at least get somewhere to rent at a decent price.
It's pathetic.


There needs to be a world war to force the distribution of wealth away from the 1%'ers to the average Joe.
IE a massive destruction of wealth

Look at the US in the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's. The quality of life they had at the time was the "American Dream", no one has that now.

Its not the 1%ers who are screwing you. Its your other half!
I assume she is still in the house? I suggested you sell that house, give her 1/2 the profits and tell her where to go.
If she gets a place to live then so should you.
You need to move back into that house ASAP. If she doesnt like it then she has every right to leave and find her own place.

nice_guy80

using cards to tap for everything doesn't help

SCOOP 64

Hollister11 wrote: »

Do they **** save money. Top of the range phones cost the guts of a grand.

I'm 21, and unless I get a top smart phone through work, I will never buy one. They are a waste of money.

I currently have a one plus 2. It cost me €305, and I have it almost 2 years. I'll probably get a other 18 months out of it functioning pretty well.

My next phone will be an average phone costing similar money.

Wow ,even €305 on a phone seems expensive to me then again i am a Aldi/Lidl shopper.

The J Stands for Jay

Lia_lia wrote: »

A lot of it is to do with the cost of rent etc but some people are just genuinely awful with money. I have friends and colleagues (most have no kids and are in their late 20's early 30's) that would be earning 40K+ and I can't believe the way spend their money on various things.

Smartphones that cost €800+, lots of online clothes shopping, holidays booked through travel agents where they could get them cheaper by booking online, Sky TV, eating out and getting take-aways most days of the week, brand new cars on PCP...and the list goes on. Fair enough if you can afford these things and still have money left over to save. But the people I know spend all this money, save absolutely none of it and usually have a few loans. Then they give out about the cost of living, the government and never being able to get a mortgage.

Ah come on now, people using travel agents? Pull the other one.

hurler32

At the end of the day ...a Labourer on a building site in Munster earned circa 300 punts 381 Euro a week in 1987,
For the Same work now a Labourer gets 480 Euro..... i can guarantee you that 381 in 1987 bought a huge amount more than todays 480.

Its the same across numerous industries , Factory Workers, Airline Staff, Shop Workers, Bank officials all used earn a decent wage to live a reasonable standard of living , now many of them are merely existing ...scavenging in LIdl...most cant afford to go to Aldi not to mind M&S...

Meanwhile the Rich are billionaires instead of Millionaires...could the Billionaires not pay their employees a small bit more ?

DivingDuck

McGaggs wrote: »

Ah come on now, people using travel agents? Pull the other one.

They're still in business, aren't they?

Shenshen

hurler32 wrote: »

At the end of the day ...a Labourer on a building site in Munster earned circa 300 punts 381 Euro a week in 1987,
For the Same work now a Labourer gets 480 Euro..... i can guarantee you that 381 in 1987 bought a huge amount more than todays 480.

Its the same across numerous industries , Factory Workers, Airline Staff, Shop Workers, Bank officials all used earn a decent wage to live a reasonable standard of living , now many of them are merely existing ...scavenging in LIdl...most cant afford to go to Aldi not to mind M&S...

Meanwhile the Rich are billionaires instead of Millionaires...could the Billionaires not pay their employees a small bit more ?

And yet, in 1987 a labourer on a building site would not have considered taking himself and the family on a holiday in Southern France or Florida, would he?
Nevermind the money for the 50' telly, the new phone every 2 years, etc.

Factory workers and airline staff earn less in comparison so your building site labourer can afford all this.
Yes, it is a race to the bottom. But it's not orchestrated by the guys on top, but by every one who decides to fly Ryanair rather than Aerlingus cause it's cheaper, everyone buying in Penneys, in Aldi and Lidl, etc.

It's a nice warm feeling giving out about how little others earn, but check your own spending habits and see how much YOU actually pay for their labour.

The J Stands for Jay

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

Funnily enough, I'm 38, and find that managing the disposable income has become a little bit more difficult, and I feel a degree of it has come as part of the drive to be a 'cashless society'.

I remember in my first part time job while I was in college, I got about 120 pounds cash in an envelope and it had to do me for everything, anytime I opened my wallet, it was a instant reminder of how much I had left between now and payday.

The increase use of contactless, apple & android pay, revolut, paypal, takes a lot of the immediate awareness away from people. Online banking is grand, but its not unusual to log on of a monday morning and see a lash of small charges from whatever odds and ends were got over the weekend. Its very easy to fritter it away in small, seemingly innocuous transactions, and then be surprised when you grab the calculator and add it all up.

I don't get this attitude. I avoid having cash because it just disappears without trace. Using cards hurts me straight away. I can see my bank balance instantly dropping, reminding me how far away payday is.

Stheno

McGaggs wrote: »

I don't get this attitude. I avoid having cash because it just disappears without trace. Using cards hurts me straight away. I can see my bank balance instantly dropping, reminding me how far away payday is.

It can take several days for some transactions to show up on my online banking

Dohnjoe

Average disposable income after tax (2014)

Ranked 18th in the world (and that includes tax havens and municipalities like Jersey, Bermuda, Caymen Islands, Monaco, etc)

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Cost-of-living/Average-monthly-disposable-salary/After-tax

Second Yellow

The numbers of people in the group described by OP is growing year on year and in the future even people well into well-paid careers will be in the same position. Everybody is getting squeezed. In the ~12 years since I graduated, rent where I live has tripled. Wages have not tripled.

The J Stands for Jay

DivingDuck wrote: »

They're still in business, aren't they?

Are they? I haven't noticed any in years.

The J Stands for Jay

Stheno wrote: »

It can take several days for some transactions to show up on my online banking

Time to switch banks. My app usually buzzes my phone before I've got the card back in my wallet.

server down

Hollister11 wrote: »

Do they **** save money. Top of the range phones cost the guts of a grand.

I'm 21, and unless I get a top smart phone through work, I will never buy one. They are a waste of money.

I currently have a one plus 2. It cost me €305, and I have it almost 2 years. I'll probably get a other 18 months out of it functioning pretty well.

My next phone will be an average phone costing similar money.

You didn’t even begin to understand my argument on how they save money. It’s all trivial anyway compared to rent.

server down

Dohnjoe wrote: »

???

We'd all rather pay less - what is your point here? Complaining about how much Irish people are charging for rent or you are proposing workable alternatives?

I’m saying that rent eats into discretionary income. An empirical fact. You’re saying. Derp free market. As for the solution. Build more houses.

We are spending a lower proportion of our income on e.g. food that we used to in the past. No contradiction at all. In some areas we are spending relatively more, in others we are spending relatively less.

That wasn’t what you said. You said we are paying more rent and also buying bigger cars. Or some I’ll thought out nonsense.

As usual these threads move from economics to home economics. However as I said discretionary income isn’t changed by how you spend it.

mdmix

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Average disposable income after tax (2014)

Ranked 18th in the world (and that includes tax havens and municipalities like Jersey, Bermuda, Caymen Islands, Monaco, etc)

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Cost-of-living/Average-monthly-disposable-salary/After-tax

this is based on a 2014 survey. the climate in Ireland has dramatically shifted since due to rising cost of buying or renting property, rising health insurance costs, electricity, gas etc.

prices may well be rising in other countries but unlikely at the same rate.

server down

Shenshen wrote: »

And yet, in 1987 a labourer on a building site would not have considered taking himself and the family on a holiday in Southern France or Florida, would he?
Nevermind the money for the 50' telly, the new phone every 2 years, etc.

The other argument that bugs me is the 50” telly. I had a CRT until a month ago but I bought a 49” TV with a 6 year guarantee for 460. That’s 6€ a month if I get rid after the guarantee runs out.

Factory workers and airline staff earn less in comparison so your building site labourer can afford all this.
Yes, it is a race to the bottom. But it's not orchestrated by the guys on top, but by every one who decides to fly Ryanair rather than Aerlingus cause it's cheaper, everyone buying in Penneys, in Aldi and Lidl, etc.

It's a nice warm feeling giving out about how little others earn, but check your own spending habits and see how much YOU actually pay for their labour.

There’s a kernel of truth there, with everybody looking for a deal and buying on amazon etc there’s less money flowing around.

DivingDuck

McGaggs wrote: »

Are they? I haven't noticed any in years.

Two in the Square. One in Dundrum. Three in town. Some others scattered around. Then there are the non-budget types used by higher end customers. They're not as popular as they once were, but they're still in business.

r93kaey5p2izun

I don't recognise this picture of people hemorrhaging money on lunches, coffee, the latest iphone and nights out at all. Everyone around me is living at home or housesharing in their 30s, afraid to turn on the heat, eating last night's dinner for lunch and nights out are a rarity. I might know one person who gets away for a week in any given year, cars are few and far between and ten years old. The sharp decline in disposable income is blatantly obvious the past 5-7 years.

Ronaldinho

For a long time, each successive generation had it better than the last. That pattern has pretty much drawn to an end.

If money or material wealth is what makes you happy then you better work very hard and/or smartly to get to where you want to be. There's only so many high paying jobs out there.

In years passed there was a lot more wage inflation across sectors and we had the low cost airlines come along together with huge technological change, all of which helped to raise standards of living very quickly.

We live in a very consumer driven society - there's no getting away from it but people need to have realistic expectations for what they can afford. I think the nation on average has become a bit snobby, demanding, entitled. I think a lot of people take way too much for granted and don't realise how good they have it.

The OP speaking of 'scavenging in Lidl' is pretty telling.