‪Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread IX: The Last Jordi [****]

thomond2006

I notice there's been no signings for next season announced by Leinster. Will there be academy graduates other than Larmour?

On the NIE front: I know Fardy is signed for next season. Lowe's contract length was undisclosed but I assume he's signed up for 2018/19. JGP's wasn't disclosed either, is he out of contract? Nacewa turns 36 in July so I assume he's retiring in the summer.

So I'm thinking as it stands Leinster have two NIE slots to use (Lowe can act as a project player).

Interested Observer

thomond2006 wrote: »

On the NIE front: I know Fardy is signed for next season. Lowe's contract length was undisclosed but I assume he's signed up for 2018/19. JGP's wasn't disclosed either, is he out of contract?

Both of these were reported in the media as 3 year deals.

thomond2006

Interested Observer wrote: »

Both of these were reported in the media as 3 year deals.

I couldn't find this online for either player but alright.
In that case we won't see a new NIE except if Nacewa retires.

Interested Observer

thomond2006 wrote: »

I couldn't find this online for either player but alright.
In that case we won't see a new NIE except if Nacewa retires.

I appreciate this isn't an official source (i.e. from Leinster themselves) but:

http://www.the42.ie/james-lowe-leinster-maori-all-blacks-3447067-Jun2017/

Scrum-half Gibson-Park could qualify to play for Ireland through three years of residency, while Lowe is now in the same bracket, having signed on a three-year contract. The back three flyer will be in Ireland before World Rugby’s new five-year residency requirements kick in, so he could play for Ireland by 2020.

thomond2006

Cool. I would be surprised if JGP was signed on an initial three year deal. Lowe less so.

Dubinusa

The back row is sensational. Jordi leaving and still massive depth. S.O.B will probably retire within the next 2 years. His body at this stage is a jigsaw puzzle. Heaslip retired, and still so many quality fellas to choose from. I hope Josh Murphy can step up as Timmins can't or isn't good enough for the senior team. That only leaves Connors in the academy and there is no u20's in the Ireland team from Leinster. So is the well drying up?
I was thinking that one of the province' would take a gander at Butler at Pau, or Buckley at Nottingham. Leinster may need to sign someone over the next couple of years.

sullivlo

case885 wrote: »

I think by the end of his career stander will definitely be up there, he's already contributed hugely to Munster and Ireland.

There’s no doubting that Stander is an amazing talent and an amazing Munster man, but nobody will come close to Nacewa IMO. He is an international quality player, who couldn’t play international rugby because of situations years ago. His addition to the squad during the international windows (in the past) is immeasurable.

Stander may be an Irish legend, but Nacewa is up there with Pienarr for importance to Leinster. I love him.

Faugheen

James Lowe is an absolute legend as well.

YEah he might be a bit fragile in defence most of the time but he's so good with the ball and he's not afraid to get down and dirty either.

He always seems to have a smile on his face, as if he's just delighted to be out there. Someone mentioned him being in the scrums so he doesn't have to sprint over to pat them on the back after a big one. It really sums up his attitude.

BoardsMember

sullivlo wrote: »

There’s no doubting that Stander is an amazing talent and an amazing Munster man, but nobody will come close to Nacewa IMO. He is an international quality player, who couldn’t play international rugby because of situations years ago. His addition to the squad during the international windows (in the past) is immeasurable.

Stander may be an Irish legend, but Nacewa is up there with Pienarr for importance to Leinster. I love him.

How so? I always thought it was his choice not to play for Fiji once he came here? Presume he was free to do so, no?

Clegg

Watching a replay of the game and noticong things I didn't yesterday. Namely how vital a player James Ryan has become already. For Leinster's third try he made the initial bust, making 3 or 4 metres whilst carrying three Saracens along with him. He had no right to make that much ground. Then a few phases later he was the player who pushed Itoje backward to allow Lowe to place the ball down for the try. He's fastly approaching world class in my opinion.

Faugheen

BoardsMember wrote: »

How so? I always thought it was his choice not to play for Fiji once he came here? Presume he was free to do so, no?

He wanted to play for the All-Blacks and not Fiji. Something was lost in translation whereby he thought he'd still be able to represent the All Blacks.

The case went to court and everything, I believe.

BoardsMember

Clegg wrote: »

Watching a replay of the game and noticong things I didn't yesterday. Namely how vital a player James Ryan has become already. For Leinster's third try he made the initial bust, making 3 or 4 metres whilst carrying three Saracens along with him. He had no right to make that much ground. Then a few phases later he was the player who pushed Itoje backward to allow Lowe to place the ball down for the try. He's fastly approaching world class in my opinion.

Had a huge part in the 2nd try too, pass to Leavy to set him free, but the angle of his run to take contact and free space was sublime. And he had been involved before that phase off to the right, had no right to be where he was. Unbelievable player.

Clegg

Dubinusa wrote: »

The back row is sensational. Jordi leaving and still massive depth. S.O.B will probably retire within the next 2 years. His body at this stage is a jigsaw puzzle. Heaslip retired, and still so many quality fellas to choose from. I hope Josh Murphy can step up as Timmins can't or isn't good enough for the senior team. That only leaves Connors in the academy and there is no u20's in the Ireland team from Leinster. So is the well drying up?
I was thinking that one of the province' would take a gander at Butler at Pau, or Buckley at Nottingham. Leinster may need to sign someone over the next couple of years.

Leinster are fine I think. Losing Heaslip and Murphy is a blow but there are still plenty of quality senior players to choose from.

Let's not forget that Max Deegan is improving every game and will soon be knocking on the door for selection in Leinster's full strength 23. There's also Caelan Doris who's out injured right now but looks good enough to make the step up to pro rugby. He's an 8 but has the size to play blindside. Still just 19 as well. He would have been starting for Ireland's u20 if not for injury

clsmooth

Clegg wrote: »

Watching a replay of the game and noticong things I didn't yesterday. Namely how vital a player James Ryan has become already. For Leinster's third try he made the initial bust, making 3 or 4 metres whilst carrying three Saracens along with him. He had no right to make that much ground. Then a few phases later he was the player who pushed Itoje backward to allow Lowe to place the ball down for the try. He's fastly approaching world class in my opinion.

BoardsMember wrote: »

Had a huge part in the 2nd try too, pass to Leavy to set him free, but the angle of his run to take contact and free space was sublime. And he had been involved before that phase off to the right, had no right to be where he was. Unbelievable player.

Got his hands to the Saracens lineout before half time before Fardy cleaned up. Huge moment in the game. That was a 5/7 point swing. Saracens are a tough team to hold out 5m from the line as they showed later in the game.

Dubinusa

Forgot about Doris. Deegan too. How inconsiderate of me.
But, S.O.B is held together with glue. I don't see too much of a future for him. On form, the best back row in the northern hemisphere by a mile.
VDF is a different type of 7. But he is class.
What team anywhere, could lose Heaslip, Jordi and S.O.B and still field a top class back row? It's feckin unreal.

errlloyd

Over the last two seasons we've had Heaslip, Jordi, SOB, VDF, Leavy, Ruddock and Conan on our books. Despite that, we've almost never had to leave a fit backrow out of a crunch game. Maybe two times that I can recall?

On average 3 out of 7 have been unavailable, sometimes more. But with 3 of those 4 very young, two older but with a few seasons left and two in the middle we seemed very secure.

Now we are less secure. We will need one of Deegan, Doris or Josh Murphy to properly step up because they will end up playing crunch games.

Faugheen

I genuinely think Deegan is the one that can do that.

Having said that, I've been well impressed with Josh Murphy anytime I've seen him play. Hopefully Doris can make some headway too.

CIARAN_BOYLE

BoardsMember wrote: »

How so? I always thought it was his choice not to play for Fiji once he came here? Presume he was free to do so, no?

A long time ago you could play internationals for one country and then represent another country fairly freely.

The IRB changed the rules and Isa played for Fiji in one a 2 minute appearance off the bench in one of the first games after the rules changed. He was told by the Fijian rugby union that the rules weren't changing til after the 2003 world cup so Isa thought he could go to the world cup as a development opportunity then change to play for new Zealand afterwards.

He tried to get his Fijian cap annulled by the IRB but that failed.

Interested Observer

Faugheen wrote: »

I genuinely think Deegan is the one that can do that.

Having said that, I've been well impressed with Josh Murphy anytime I've seen him play. Hopefully Doris can make some headway too.

I'm not really sure Josh Murphy is at that elite level that Leavy, VdF, Ruddock etc are. I think Deegan could well be and I've not seen much of Doris but the talk is he could be as well.

swiwi_

Interested Observer wrote: »

I'm not really sure Josh Murphy is at that elite level that Leavy, VdF, Ruddock etc are. I think Deegan could well be and I've not seen much of Doris but the talk is he could be as well.

All I see is tea lady. Wonder if he’s lumped with that nickname?

salmocab

I reckon by the end of next season Deegan could have pushed by Conan and be pushing hard for a WC spot. He’s a proper athlete and a fine player.

Faugheen

Interested Observer wrote: »

I'm not really sure Josh Murphy is at that elite level that Leavy, VdF, Ruddock etc are. I think Deegan could well be and I've not seen much of Doris but the talk is he could be as well.

I don't think so either, but when, if all are fit, we're missing potentially 5 backrowers during the international break, you need players like Josh Murphy who can step in, similarly to Noel Reid.

Interested Observer

Faugheen wrote: »

I don't think so either, but when, if all are fit, we're missing potentially 5 backrowers during the international break, you need players like Josh Murphy who can step in, similarly to Noel Reid.

I can't see that happening, someone has to lose out in national selection.

joseywhales

Really we shouldn't sign a foreign player for about 4 years. If anyone needs them it's connacht and ulster.i know things can change fast though and you can find yourself with ail players playing wing etc.

Also, I think Rob Kearney can be put in the hall of fame of Irish rugby at this point.

Interested Observer

joseywhales wrote: »

Really we shouldn't sign a foreign player for about 4 years. If anyone needs them it's connacht and ulster.i know things can change fast though and you can find yourself with ail players playing wing etc.

Also, I think Rob Kearney can be put in the hall of fame of Irish rugby at this point.

Might need a hooker at some point. In the 2nd row in 4 years Fardy will be gone and Toner could easily be as well so that is something that needs to be addressed. Some areas of the squad are much stronger than others.

salmocab

Interested Observer wrote: »

I can't see that happening, someone has to lose out in national selection.

Yeah it would take stander and POM to be injured before there’s a chance of us missing 5

thomond2006

Doris should move to Ulster and team up with Ethel.

Faugheen

Interested Observer wrote: »

I can't see that happening, someone has to lose out in national selection.

Yeah I forgot that players are released to their provinces if they're not involved.

5 players in Ireland camps I should say. And we'd definitely have at least 2 in a match day squad, maybe even three if Joe still prefers Ruddock over POM.

Either way, there's room for players like Josh Murphy in this Leinster squad, which was the main point I was making.

Dubinusa

Dowling and one of Dunne or Daly will fill out the 2nd row over the next 3 yrs. I am more concerned about the lh. Pretty thin after church and jack.

stephen_n

Dubinusa wrote: »

Dowling and one of Dunne or Daly will fill out the 2nd row over the next 3 yrs. I am more concerned about the lh. Pretty thin after church and jack.

Ed Byrne and Dooley, though we will have difficulty holding on to Dooley.