BIK on EVs.

loopymum

grogi wrote: »

You don't insure a car. You insure yourself to drive that car - a fundamental difference. And you would have insurable interest in insuring yourself.

Unfortunately this was what I was told by the insurance company on the phone today, I asked what it meant as I have seen insurable interest mentioned here before, I was informed that an insurable interest meant if something happened the vehicle I would have to miss out financially and if the car was not registered in mine or OHs name then I would not have an insurable interest.
I even wrote down what I was quoted so I would have my facts straight, I was going to ask what the story would be if OH bought the car as sole trader for me the employee and not through a company would that work but decided not to go down that rabbit hole just yet as I don't yet know if OH as sole trader could buy an Ev for me the employee bik free without doing it through a company.

The insurance company I spoke to was Aviva by the way

grogi

loopymum wrote: »

Unfortunately this was what I was told by the insurance company on the phone today,

I know. The agents often don't understand their business either. They simply don't want to insure one, but it is not about insurable interest.

I wonder if the BIK relief could be leveraged when one does business as a sole-trader, not a ltd company.

loopymum

loopymum wrote: »

Unfortunately this was what I was told by the insurance company on the phone today, I asked what it meant as I have seen insurable interest mentioned here before, I was informed that an insurable interest meant if something happened the vehicle I would have to miss out financially and if the car was not registered in mine or OHs name then I would not have an insurable interest.
I even wrote down what I was quoted so I would have my facts straight, I was going to ask what the story would be if OH bought the car as sole trader for me the employee and not through a company would that work but decided not to go down that rabbit hole just yet as I don't yet know if OH as sole trader could buy an Ev for me the employee bik free without doing it through a company.

The insurance company I spoke to was Aviva by the way

I'm going through this at the moment and still haven't resolved it. Chill said the company had to insure the car but wouldn't quote; Axa said go through a broker.

Now, I have the added complication of only having one year NCB due to a small claim we had to make a couple of years ago. FBD said they only quote for companies where the driver will have 2+ years NCB.

Currently waiting for a broker to come back to me but it has been more than a week. She said the NCB has limited the options considerably.

If you don't have that problem, you can probably go to a broker and get the company to insure the EV that it buys (you'd need money in the company though). It'll be higher than your personal insurance but, as you pay for it before tax, it should work out okay.

air

grogi wrote: »

I wonder if the BIK relief could be leveraged when one does business as a sole-trader, not a ltd company.

No, it can't be.
The "benefit" in Benefit In Kind, refers to benefits to employees. If you're a sole trader you're not an employee. If you had employees as a sole trader they could claim it I guess but not the primary sole trader certainly.

unkel

air wrote: »

If you had employees as a sole trader

Sole traders by definition do not have employees

air

unkel wrote: »

Sole traders by definition do not have employees

Funny that because I had employees previously as a sole trader. You just register for employers PAYE.

Denisoftus

Accountant referred that there is no official document backing 3 years of %0 BIK, at the moment its only one year BIK exception proved: for purchases in 2018. Is it correct? Can someone help me with official document links please?

Water John

I think you're right on the 1 year but everyone hopeful it continues. I think that has been promised and we trust our Ministers to honour their promises.

This is all I can find - the Minister for Finance referring to 'three to five years'.

Denisoftus

There are a lot of factors which putting me off now, inability to find reasonable insurance quote (spent hours on the phone to no avail), uncertainty with extending the incentive, loosing the personal NCB. Not sure who would really benefit from this incentive, it is so much overcomplicated at the moment, so I'm giving up.

jamule

1 yr only up to the 31st of dec 2018. There is no document for 3-5yrs as it not it was part of the 2018 budget/finance act but it was a commitment from the govt that BIK on vehicles to be reviewed in 2018 and it should be nil for ev be for at least 3-5 yrs

jamule

https://www.revenue.ie/en/corporate/press-office/budget-information/2018/index.aspx

Benefit in Kind
Electric Cars and Vans
From 1 January 2018 to 31 December 2018, where an
employer provides an employee or director with an electric
car or van, no taxable benefit will arise for the employee
or director.
This exemption is limited to cars or vans which derive
their motive power solely from electricity (no exemption is
available in respect of hybrid cars or vans).
Charging points for Electric Vehicles
The provision of charging points on site by an employer
for the electric charging of vehicles will not give rise to a
taxable benefit for the employee or director from
1 January 2018.

This is not as cast iron as something from Revenue or the DoF but: the Dept of Comms, Climate Action & Environment has published this on their website

It goes with 'at least three years'.

My accountant tells me that the Finance Minister clarified in late October that it would be 3-5 years after various lobbyists - accountancy, small firms, motor trade - pointed out that no company could buy an asset without some medium-term comfort, hence the 'three to five years' line from Pascal Donohue.

(Speech also published on Oireachtas record during second reading of the Finance Bill and Pascal's website)

Insurance nightmare
However, I still haven't cracked the insurance nut. In my case, the complication is only having one year NCB. Most companies won't quote, including my own, and I have a broker chasing two companies for nearly two weeks now.

Very close to giving up. Alas, if I have to wait another year then it would depend on what's in Budget 2019. If, this time next year, there are only two years left to run on the incentive then it's not worth it.

grogi

Deleted User wrote: »

Insurance nightmare
However, I still haven't cracked the insurance nut. In my case, the complication is only having one year NCB. Most companies won't quote, including my own, and I have a broker chasing two companies for nearly two weeks now.

There are thousands of drivers with company cars. How do they get insurance?!

Water John

Good point Grogi. I think maybe it's an unintended or overlooked option that, so many small cos, might use the scheme. You know the shop, tradesman, farmer who operate as a co.
It is a market opportunity niche, for some broker.

Yes, I keep asking that question - what does everybody else do?!

FBD were all set to quote until we go to the question about the NCB and they say their rules for 'new business' preclude anyone with less than two years. Unfortunately we had to make a small claim 18 months ago.

Even Axa, my own insurer, were content to renew my private insurance but said switching to a company-owned car would technically be new biz and they couldn't quote due to lack of two years' claims-free driving.

Water John

FBD had no problem quoting me for a van for the farm co. They did want my own NCB. That seems to be your problem.
Have you any other Directors in the co, who have a NCB? Add some family member, as a Director.

Hmmm...a cunning plan!

The other director is my partner and she's on my insurance - we only have one car. I suppose I could add a sibling or parent. They have their own cars and would probably have to transfer the NCB to the company(?).

I dunno, it's a bit convoluted. They would be registered as owners of the car with me a named driver and if we were audited it would look a bit contrived given that they have no active role in the company. Maybe that's paranoid.

The broker says there's a new crowd in the market in the last few weeks but they keep asking for more details about the claim I made. It was a minor tip which I could have got fixed locally for a few hundred quid but the other party wanted to go through insurance...and I'm still paying the price!

Lesson learned: insurance isn't for making claims on. It's a disc you need to buy so you can drive your car.

Denisoftus

grogi wrote: »

There are thousands of drivers with company cars. How do they get insurance?!

One broker told me, if company has business insurance, like offices, etc, this can be extended to fleet (or a one car) easily. In case of SMB, there is no business insurance as such, in most cases, which makes it almost impossible to insure a car with zero company NCB.

I have received a couple of quotes, but I won't even consider them, as they are extraordinary, and cost about 6-8% of a car value

Denisoftus

Water John wrote: »

FBD had no problem quoting me for a van for the farm co. They did want my own NCB. That seems to be your problem.
Have you any other Directors in the co, who have a NCB? Add some family member, as a Director.

Not going to work, me and other director have 9+years personal NCB, claims free all along, both will be insured, still FBD and others said no and post me the letter of denial. So adding family members would not make it easier.

I know with this letter I can go further, but first company I had a letter from will quote me the same extraordinary price which I won't go with in any case.

Water John

Ixelles, it's the co that will own the EV car and insure it.

Denisoftus

Water John wrote: »

Ixelles, it's the co that will own the EV car and insure it.

Its always the case, Co will own a car and would have to insure it, otherwise it will be much much easier.

bp_me

Denisoftus wrote: »

Its always the case, Co will own a car and would have to insure it, otherwise it will be much much easier.

Wouldnt most companies be leasing the car. Making the insurance the lease company's issue.

Denisoftus

bp_me wrote: »

Wouldnt most companies be leasing the car. Making the insurance the lease company's issue.

It may well be the case, though I can't find any EV cars for lease. Will be delighted to go on this route.

bp_me

Denisoftus wrote: »

It may well be the case, though I can't find any EV cars for lease. Will be delighted to go on this route.

Probably a case of approaching the lease companies and asking for a price

FYI for anyone interested:
I want to buy a car through my company next year but have been having trouble getting insurance due to only having one year NCB. Finally got a quote yesterday for between 1.5k and 2k, depending on 3rd part vs comprehensive; NCB protection etc.

My private car insurance was 1.3k this year (due to low NCB) so this is actually a bit better for me given that it would come out of company funds (ergo, pre-tax).

Did I see somewhere that there's no BIK for employees who use charging points installed at their workplace? I wonder whether my company could pay for the installation of a charging point at my place of work - which is my home.

Might be a bit complicated. I remember my accountant saying it was very awkward if you add value to your house through the company - e.g. building a home office in the garden or converting the garage/attic. Who owns it if you sell the house/company?

KCross

Deleted User wrote: »

Did I see somewhere that there's no BIK for employees who use charging points installed at their workplace? I wonder whether my company could pay for the installation of a charging point at my place of work - which is my home.

Might be a bit complicated. I remember my accountant saying it was very awkward if you add value to your house through the company - e.g. building a home office in the garden or converting the garage/attic. Who owns it if you sell the house/company?

Correct, no BIK for the use of the electricity for company employees charging their car at work.

See page 4 of this revenue doc for Budget 2018:
http://www.budget.gov.ie/Budgets/2018/Documents/Budget_2018_Tax_Policy_Changes.pdf

The text is:

Benefit in Kind on Electric Vehicles
A 0% benefit-in-kind (BIK) rate is being introduced for electric vehicles for a period of 1 year. This will for allow for a comprehensive review of benefit in kind on vehicles which will inform decisions for the next Budget.
Electricity used in the workplace for charging vehicles will also be exempt from benefit in kind.

As for adding value to your house.... the charge point and install is about €600-€800 depending on who does it for you.... hardly adding value really as its not a permanent fixture anyway as it will give up the ghost at some point.

Fair point - it's not exactly a garage conversion!

Anyone any recommendations on installers? I'm thinking of a new Leaf at some stage next year.

KCross

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyone any recommendations on installers?

What location/area?

North Kildare

Edit: Celbridge/Leixlip area. Only 10 mins from Lucan so a lot of West Dublin suppliers/trades serve N. Kildare area