#MeToo has caught on, good thing or bad thing ?

erica74

I have been reading this thread since my first post in it, which is waaaay back in the pages, and thought some might find this interesting.
I was just out for my lunch, I was walking along a footpath, on my way to the bank to lodge a cheque, thinking about how long it would take to clear and that I then have to lodge that money into another account so my mind was occupied.
I heard some commotion from a car driving beside me, even though I was wearing earphones and looked to my right. There was 3 men in a car and the 2 passengers had their windows rolled down and were saying something in my direction. I thought they were asking for directions so I took out my earphones and asked if they were okay? One of the passengers said "alright love, where are you going?" and I started walking again because 3 strange men in a car don't need to know where I'm going. One of them took offence to this and called me an "ugly munter" and as I put my earphones back in, they were all shouting abuse. The driver then went up and all the way around the roundabout just so they could all give me the finger as he drove by. I went into the bank then, looking over my shoulder while at the self service atm, hoping they wouldn't appear.

And do you know what the sad thing about that is? That's the normal way for these types of interactions to end. I could have told you that exchange would go that way from the minute the first one said "alright love".

And, as I said in my first post, I still think #metoo is a load of bollox.

Zulu

erica74 wrote: »

And do you know what the sad thing about that is? That's the norm.

No it is not.

Let's be very clear here, the norm is all the other cars that drove past you that didn't even notice you.

professore

erica74 wrote: »

I have been reading this thread since my first post in it, which is waaaay back in the pages, and thought some might find this interesting.
I was just out for my lunch, I was walking along a footpath, on my way to the bank to lodge a cheque, thinking about how long it would take to clear and that I then have to lodge that money into another account so my mind was occupied.
I heard some commotion from a car driving beside me, even though I was wearing earphones and looked to my right. There was 3 men in a car and the 2 passengers had their windows rolled down and were saying something in my direction. I thought they were asking for directions so I took out my earphones and asked if they were okay? One of the passengers said "alright love, where are you going?" and I started walking again because 3 strange men in a car don't need to know where I'm going. One of them took offence to this and called me an "ugly munter" and as I put my earphones back in, they were all shouting abuse. The driver then went up and all the way around the roundabout just so they could all give me the finger as he drove by. I went into the bank then, looking over my shoulder while at the self service atm, hoping they wouldn't appear.

And do you know what the sad thing about that is? That's the norm. I could have told you that exchange would go that way from the minute the first one said "alright love".

And, as I said in my first post, I still think #metoo is a load of bollox.

Let's face it, they were skangers .... they would harass anyone, male or female. It's not the "norm". It's the norm from people of a certain socioeconomic group.

B0jangles

erica74 wrote: »

And do you know what the sad thing about that is? That's the norm. I could have told you that exchange would go that way from the minute the first one said "alright love".

And, as I said in my first post, I still think #metoo is a load of bollox.

You really should have checked with these guys ^^^ before you posted; they obviously know more about what happened to you that you do.

B0jangles

Bambi985 wrote: »

The first time I recall receiving a scary level of male attention was when I was on J1 in New Jersey as an 18 year old and couldn't walk down the street without being gawked at, yelled at, whistled at, cat called and even followed. I'd have to say that America is a hotbed of activity for this and to completely generalise, a lot more sexist. Some parts are worse than others obviously, but walking through the streets of New York on your own as a woman can be bloody eye-opening.

There's cultural aspects to it too, certain ethnic communities are more susceptible to it, I even see it in London when the prolonged stares and cold approaches will most often be African or Asian men.

It certainly isn't a socially acceptable way to talk to women in Ireland, but I have to say when you live in a country where "cold approaches" are the norm and every man on the street is viewing you as a potential conquest, it gets bloody old very fast. The majority of women - especially Irish women - are not going to respond positively to that. I'd compare it to chuggers - who's ever happy to be faced with an over-enthusiastic head yelling about famine in Africa and trying to get money off you when you're trying to get from A to B? Probably 2 percent of people at a conservative guess.

And as with chuggers, it's not illegal, I wouldn't label it sexual harassment (except for the following or the ones that don't take no for an answer) but I'm always dismayed when people try to encourage it as a way of meeting women because the vast majority of women don't leave the house hoping or expecting to be picked up or to have their appearance commented upon freely and when they respond negatively to it out roll the "Irish women are beeatches" remarks and round and round we go.

I never thought of the similarity before and you know what, it really is a perfect comparison.

It really is just chugging, but with a higher chance of being insulted.

Christy42

professore wrote: »

Let's face it, they were skangers .... they would harass anyone, male or female. It's not the "norm". It's the norm from people of a certain socioeconomic group.

I would put good money on them harassing more women than men.

Irish Guitarist

I'm a man and I've often had idiots shout abuse at me. I was minding my own business walking into town one day when some idiot shouted at me from a car "you look like a faggot". I told him to fuck off. This is only one incident. I guarantee you I've been shouted at in the street at least as much as the average woman has.

If you do a search on Twitter for '#metoo' you'll find women complaining about similar incidents and comparing it to rape or sexual abuse. In my view these women are attention seekers and idiots. Complaining about a scumbag annoying you is one thing but comparing it to being raped is idiotic.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Christy42

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

No one has said otherwise that I have seen. I believe that's the norm was referring to the norm of men who have started a conversation in a manner similar to the story given.

What has been said is that a large proportion of women have suffered due to this minority of men.

Irish Guitarist

There's a woman I used to see around who used to ask me for money and I used to ignore her. One day she started shouting at the top her voice "YOU FUCKING CUNT". Then every time I saw her she would shout something at me. One day I was walking along minding my own business when I saw her across the road. There was another girl approaching me and she shouted at this girl something to the effect off "watch out for him or he'll try and rape you".

If I judged all women by the actions of this scumbag as well as all the other women that have shouted abuse at me over the years I'd hate all women. I realise that would be a stupid way to think. It's amazing the number of women that think it's acceptable to hate all men and bang on about 'rape culture' because of their interactions with male scumbags. Some women seriously need to get over themselves. No, all men aren't out to rape you.

One eyed Jack

B0jangles wrote: »

You really should have checked with these guys ^^^ before you posted; they obviously know more about what happened to you that you do.

Whereas you imagine you know more about the majority of women than I do solely by virtue of the fact that you're a woman and I'm a man, so I'll, as you put it "always be speaking from a position of ignorance" -

B0jangles wrote: »

Whether such the actual risk justifies such caution, the majority of women are brought up to be very aware of their surroundings, to be aware of the importance of not being in isolated places by themselves, to be aware if someone might be following them at night and so on.

That is the common experience of most women. You can handwave it away as nonsense all you like but you will always be speaking from a position of ignorance.

That's handwaving, not to mention the fact that due to your own ignorance you have no idea how much research I've done or my experience with women whom some women are so fond of reminding us are our sisters, mothers, friends, cousins, work colleagues, etc.

Objectivity is like a dirty word for people who want to spread their extremist ideologies. The problem though with that is that people aren't as stupid as you need them to be in order to buy into an ideology that paints men out to be the scourge of women.

B0jangles

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Whereas you imagine you know more about the majority of women than I do solely by virtue of the fact that you're a woman and I'm a man, so I'll, as you put it "always be speaking from a position of ignorance" -

That's handwaving, not to mention the fact that due to your own ignorance you have no idea how much research I've done or my experience with women whom some women are so fond of reminding us are our sisters, mothers, friends, cousins, work colleagues, etc.

Objectivity is like a dirty word for people who want to spread their extremist ideologies. The problem though with that is that people aren't as stupid as you need them to be in order to buy into an ideology that paints men out to be the scourge of women.

I have never sought to explain how your own experiences didn't happen to you, so the comparison falls down from the start.

I essentially pointed out that unless you have lived as a woman you cannot know what it is like to be one. I have never lived as a man, I have no personal experience of what that's like, so I try to avoid explaining men's experiences to them as though I have some insight that they do not have.

You however, are quite happy to tell me and other women that we are imagining or exaggerating aspects of our own lives. Why you think you have some greater insight remains to be explained.

I'm not quite sure why you've now decided I have an extremist ideology that I am apparently trying to spread; is it because I agreed with Kylith and disagreed with you?

erica74

Zulu wrote: »

No it is not.

Let's be very clear here, the norm is all the other cars that drove past you that didn't even notice you.

I thought it was "very clear" but I'll make it simple - I meant that is the norm of interactions I have with strange men who harass me in public. I assumed that was obvious.

pconn062

professore wrote: »

Let's face it, they were skangers .... they would harass anyone, male or female. It's not the "norm". It's the norm from people of a certain socioeconomic group.

Exactly, it's a sad state of affairs but you get skangers everywhere who will harass anyone they can find, male or female. And to be honest, that abuse is much more likely to be physical and involve violence if the victim is male.

givyjoe

erica74 wrote: »

I thought it was "very clear" but I'll make it simple - I meant that is the norm of interactions I have with strange men who harass me in public. I assumed that was obvious.

Do you mean that EVERY interaction with a guy you didn't know.. always ends up with you being harassed? That's what you mean by norm?

erica74

givyjoe wrote: »

Do you mean that EVERY interaction with a guy you didn't know.. always ends up with you being harassed? That's what you mean by norm?

When approached by a strange man in public and things didn't go along the path they had planned out in their head, yes, it ended in harassment like I described above.

Will I Am Not

erica74 wrote: »

When approached by a strange man in public and things didn't go along the path they had planned out in their head, yes, it ended in harassment like I described above.

How often do you get harassed by strange men?

kylith

pconn062 wrote: »

Exactly, it's a sad state of affairs but you get skangers everywhere who will harass anyone they can find, male or female. And to be honest, that abuse is much more likely to be physical and involve violence if the victim is male.

"Oh look, a thread about how women are regularly hassled and made to feel unsafe and objectified whilst going about their daily lives from the time they hit puberty by men who at worst rape and beat and at best demand that the women pay them attention. I simply must drop in to say 'but what about the men?!'"

erica74

The Fake Sheikh wrote: »

How often do you get harassed by strange men?

Do you think I'm going to recount every incident and have it helpfully explained to me?

How many is too many? How many is not enough? Is there a scale?

B0jangles

You have to laugh at the way the CSI-After Hours team is now busily cross-examining erica74 to find the cracks in her obviously exaggerated (probably fabricated) account of being harassed in the street.

Will I Am Not

erica74 wrote: »

Do you think I'm going to recount every incident and have it helpfully explained to me?

No. I just find it strange that it would happen often. You must be really unlucky... or most men are sexually deviant arseholes.

erica74

The Fake Sheikh wrote: »

No. I just find it strange that it would happen often. You must be really unlucky... or most men are sexually deviant arseholes.

I'm guessing by the language you've used that you're telling me I'm really unlucky.

Jesus

Way to cover yerselves in glory lads

http://metro.co.uk/2017/10/25/george-h-w-bush-apologises-after-sexual-assault-allegation-7025274/

The old Bush accused of sex assault because of where his hand was in this photo.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

The Fake Sheikh wrote: »

No. I just find it strange that it would happen often. You must be really unlucky... or most men are sexually deviant arseholes.

Which is kind of the fcuking point of all this. It's not strange, it does happen often, it's a pain in the arse and can be scary.

Though some people seem to have weird Chrome extension that replaces every sentence typed by a woman concerning harassment or assault with:

I HATE MEN AND ALL MEN ARE RAPISTS

Will I Am Not

erica74 wrote: »

I'm guessing by the language you've used that you're telling me I'm really unlucky.

I’m sure most women have experienced unwanted attention in their lives. I’m sure a lot of women were harassed as a result of that unwanted attention.
To be harassed like that on a regular basis is surely uncommon?
I mean, how can one person encounter so many arseholes?

erica74

The Fake Sheikh wrote: »

I’m sure most women have experienced unwanted attention in their lives. I’m sure a lot of women were harassed as a result of that unwanted attention.
To be harassed like that on a regular basis is surely uncommon?
I mean, how can one person encounter so many arseholes?

Maybe you should ask - why are there so many (to use your choice of description) arseholes?

Will I Am Not

erica74 wrote: »

Maybe you should ask - why are there so many (to use your choice of description) arseholes?

I don’t believe there is to be honest. What qualifies as sexual harassment will vary from person to person but if you have to put up with the example you have given with the lads in the car, on a regular basis, then I think there would have to be an element of bad luck involved.

The overwhelming majority of men are not out to sexually harass women.

erica74

When someone posts about their experience, the replies are either explaining the experience because the person has obviously misunderstood it, asking what about men, pointing out some time a man was wrongfully accused, pointing out when women did similar but got treated differently and then ask why don't women report, tell someone etc and repeat.

neonsofa

erica74 wrote: »

When someone posts about their experience, the replies are either explaining the experience because the person has obviously misunderstood it, asking what about men, pointing out some time a man was wrongfully accused, pointing out when women did similar but got treated differently and repeat.

And then ask why we don't tell people/report it