#MeToo has caught on, good thing or bad thing ?

One eyed Jack

anewme wrote: »

I'm a woman and can safely say they don't.

The majority of women I know thought 50 shades was, well, fifty shades of ****.

EL James was a woman whose ambition was to buy a Passat, so let's just leave it there.

Oh come on now, the Twilight and 50 shades franchise have been phenomenally successful, as have the Sex and the City and Bridget Jones franchises. Why? Because women could relate to them. They may not have been yours and your friends cup of tea, but they were hugely popular with the millennial women's demographic all the same. Plenty of women I know too thought 50 shades was indeed 50 shades of shyte, but not only did they buy the trilogy of books, they made a night out of going to see the films too!

the p u a people (did not know what that was till tonight) will only attract similar (empty vessels)

You've seen the posts by the guy labelled as a p u a, he was thick as pig **** quite frankly, i would worry for anyone falling for the " playful conversation" it sounds mind numbingly boring. He'd have to consult the manual to find out what his own name is.

True, but while they may well be empty vessels, they're still women, and that's all that counts really when the idea is notches on the bedpost rather than any kind of meaningful relationship. The popularity of online dating and straight-up hook-up apps speaks for itself really - convenience and ease of access as opposed to feeling the need to make any more effort than is strictly necessary.

That goes not just for men, but more and more for women too, as they aren't as dependent on men for security as they once were, they have their own means now, but still when there's an itch that needs scratching, they can whip out the mobile and in a couple of swipes as easy as ordering a pizza, they'll have arranged an evenings entertainment - Netflix and chill, if you will

I suppose what I'm saying is; there's someone for everyone.

What's the new Dogs Trust Ad? Find your special someone.

I knew a guy who was the typical nice guy. He's finished well, personally, Professionally and financially.

You just need to play the long game.,

Ain't nobody got time for that nowadays, and that's why I'm not particularly worried about the metoo phenomenon. I expect it will go out out fashion as soon as the next social justice issue starts trending, and then all those on the metoo bandwagon will abandon it in their droves so they can be viewed by their peers as forward thinkers always up to date with the latest trends in social justice.

Any day now I expect selfies and belfies of women burning their bras and knickers and tagging their friends on social media to do the same, similar to the bra burnings in the 70's. That'll learn the menz :rolleyes:

222233

I think it's empowering but at the same time I think social media can be really dangerous when it comes to matters that need in depth and possibly legal examination or interpretation. While I think the idea is great I personally think people with legitatime stories should be encouraged to go to the appropriate authorities so as claims can be investigated and both sides of a story can be heard.

I also think we have to acknowledge that there are different degrees and or perceptions of assault /abuse. I for example would not consider a remark passed by a man to me in a nightclub to constitute any form of sexual harrassment whereas another girl or man might consider it otherwise. Surely that doesn't fall under the same severity as assault ? Can one hashtag really measure and catagorise the very different experiences and different perceptions of people?

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

Probably shouldn't take a dig at my social life one post after saying you worked at home and didn't have many friends

Not going to bother continuing this since you love to reinterpret everything to suit your own opinion. TBH I keep thinking you're trolling me. Enough. Neither of us is introducing anything new to the thread and just going around in circles.

anewme

anewme wrote: »

the p u a people (did not know what that was till tonight) will only attract similar (empty vessels) .

You really should know more about the PUA material before making such a wide sweeping generalization. There are various philosophies within the PUA system, but for simplicity, we can break them into three groups.

The majority are those looking for sex. These will be people (not just men) who view women as objects and will trick women into having sex with them. They will often follow the concept of neg-hitting a woman by insulting her to generate interest or using props to make them look better. gold chains, fancy watches, etc. Chat-up lines are a huge part of their mentality. These people generally behave like scum, and are the ones that give the PUA scene such a terrible reputation. Retards.

On the other hand, there are those that started in the PUA scene, didn't like the negativity within it and have gone a different direction. They learn NLP to better understand the meanings of conversations, body language, meditation to center themselves, and will generally behave as gentlemen. The common theme is "leaving a woman better than when you found her". For them, the dating is not about sex as a primary reason, but because they're looking to expand their life experiences, or find a successful relationship.

Lastly, there are those already in relationships and use the PUA techniques to improve their own relationship. They both go to the seminars, and they soak up all the information about understanding each other better. I know a few married couples who every year go to various PUA seminars because they think its interesting.

The thing about dating is that there is no education in how to do it. Some men/women know from the start how to approach each other easily, and some others just get lucky finding a series of girlfriends/boyfriends with little effort. But for many other people, who either lack confidence or have various social/physical disabilities, they don't know how to meet women successfully.

So they go find a book which gives silly advice that doesn't work, or read on forums which also gives advice that doesn't work for them. And then they find the PUA scene, which promises results, and they do get results. The morality of that success comes down to the person using the material, but then TBH that's the same for anyone dating regardless of whether they're using PUA or not.

I don't particularly like the mainstream PUA scene. It's revolting to me the manner in which they view and treat women... but it works because so many women enjoy being treated badly. Seems rubbish but I've seen it happen. The women who constantly have relationships with guys who cheat on her, hit her, or treat her like a slave. These women totally bypass the nice gentle guys because they're not exciting enough for her. Perhaps they have confidence issues or they have some sort of psychological hangups but there are quite a few women in every society that behave that way.

I started in the PUA scene about twenty years ago, and lasted about three years. I went to a few seminars and did it for a year or two, but I was raised by my mother to be a gentleman. I've never wanted to treat women in such manner, and I refuse to. But the PUA scene did introduce various other methodologies and ideas regarding dating that I continue to use to this day. I have zero interest in the PUA scene now, since I have enough experience to know how to encouage women to enjoy being with me.

Development of better tonality so that I can control my voice, NLP to understand conversations better, pacing, Psychology to recognize problems before they arise, meditation to help me control my emotions better, etc. None of which would I have found in Ireland if I had just followed the traditional dating scene.

So, The mainstream PUA scene is poison... but there is a lot of good material that doesn't teach men to mistreat women. The issue is that the **** material is quick and easy. The good material takes a lot of time and effort to learn. People tend to seek quick/easy answers.

anewme

anewme wrote: »

There are a lot of people on this thread who obviously live in a vacuum, with no idea of normal day to day life is.

Welcome to 99% of the internet.

dogbert27

This is where the #metoo has gone too far.

Really?? The 93 year old, wheel chair bound, George HW Bush, picked this moment, a photograph with his wife right beside, he picked this moment to sexually assault the woman! I mean come on!!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5014447/Actress-alleges-George-H-W-Bush-sexually-assaulted-her.html#comments

The last line of the article says it all:
"The actress has not offered definitive evidence of the alleged misconduct."

B0jangles

Deleted User wrote: »

You really should know more about the PUA material before making such a wide sweeping generalization. There are various philosophies within the PUA system, but for simplicity, we can break them into three groups.

The majority are those looking for sex. These will be people (not just men) who view women as objects and will trick women into having sex with them. They will often follow the concept of neg-hitting a woman by insulting her to generate interest or using props to make them look better. gold chains, fancy watches, etc. Chat-up lines are a huge part of their mentality. These people generally behave like scum, and are the ones that give the PUA scene such a terrible reputation. Retards.

On the other hand, there are those that started in the PUA scene, didn't like the negativity within it and have gone a different direction. They learn NLP to better understand the meanings of conversations, body language, meditation to center themselves, and will generally behave as gentlemen. The common theme is "leaving a woman better than when you found her". For them, the dating is not about sex as a primary reason, but because they're looking to expand their life experiences, or find a successful relationship.

Lastly, there are those already in relationships and use the PUA techniques to improve their own relationship. They both go to the seminars, and they soak up all the information about understanding each other better. I know a few married couples who every year go to various PUA seminars because they think its interesting.

The thing about dating is that there is no education in how to do it. Some men/women know from the start how to approach each other easily, and some others just get lucky finding a series of girlfriends/boyfriends with little effort. But for many other people, who either lack confidence or have various social/physical disabilities, they don't know how to meet women successfully.

So they go find a book which gives silly advice that doesn't work, or read on forums which also gives advice that doesn't work for them. And then they find the PUA scene, which promises results, and they do get results. The morality of that success comes down to the person using the material, but then TBH that's the same for anyone dating regardless of whether they're using PUA or not.

I don't particularly like the mainstream PUA scene. It's revolting to me the manner in which they view and treat women... but it works because so many women enjoy being treated badly. Seems rubbish but I've seen it happen. The women who constantly have relationships with guys who cheat on her, hit her, or treat her like a slave. These women totally bypass the nice gentle guys because they're not exciting enough for her. Perhaps they have confidence issues or they have some sort of psychological hangups but there are quite a few women in every society that behave that way.

I started in the PUA scene about twenty years ago, and lasted about three years. I went to a few seminars and did it for a year or two, but I was raised by my mother to be a gentleman. I've never wanted to treat women in such manner, and I refuse to. But the PUA scene did introduce various other methodologies and ideas regarding dating that I continue to use to this day. I have zero interest in the PUA scene now, since I have enough experience to know how to encouage women to enjoy being with me.

Development of better tonality so that I can control my voice, NLP to understand conversations better, pacing, Psychology to recognize problems before they arise, meditation to help me control my emotions better, etc. None of which would I have found in Ireland if I had just followed the traditional dating scene.

So, The mainstream PUA scene is poison... but there is a lot of good material that doesn't teach men to mistreat women. The issue is that the **** material is quick and easy. The good material takes a lot of time and effort to learn. People tend to seek quick/easy answers.

Isn't discussion of all that PUA crap banned on boards?

B0jangles

B0jangles wrote: »

Isn't discussion of all that PUA crap banned on boards?

No idea. I'm not exactly promoting it or seeking a discussion about PUA. Surely some clarification on PUA is acceptable. Still, knock your socks off and report it.

PUA always just sounds like the most neck beardy thing ever.

kylith

222233 wrote: »

I think it's empowering but at the same time I think social media can be really dangerous when it comes to matters that need in depth and possibly legal examination or interpretation. While I think the idea is great I personally think people with legitatime stories should be encouraged to go to the appropriate authorities so as claims can be investigated and both sides of a story can be heard.

I also think we have to acknowledge that there are different degrees and or perceptions of assault /abuse. I for example would not consider a remark passed by a man to me in a nightclub to constitute any form of sexual harrassment whereas another girl or man might consider it otherwise. Surely that doesn't fall under the same severity as assault ? Can one hashtag really measure and catagorise the very different experiences and different perceptions of people?

This is the problem with #metoo, what one person would see as a compliment or a trivial annoyance another could be deeply affected by. I'd explain it as like a phobia; some people aren't bothered by rats at all, some people will scream for help should they have so much of an inkling that there's a mouse somewhere in the house. Therefore you shouldn't go lobbing rodents at someone unless you know them well enough to know how they will react. Similarly; be polite and respectful in your remarks to other people: you don't know what they have gone through in their life.

Deleted User wrote: »

PUA always just sounds like the most neck beardy thing ever.

I can never help but imagine that PUA guy is Wolowitz from Big Bang Theory when he shows up.

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not going to bother continuing this since you love to reinterpret everything to suit your own opinion. TBH I keep thinking you're trolling me. Enough. Neither of us is introducing anything new to the thread and just going around in circles.

Ah man it's a little immature to claim you're having trolled when you got detailed replies to all your points. Sure some stuff you said got.misinterpreted because that's what happens on the net. How many people have claimed that I am saying no man can ever approach any woman in any situation even though I've said multiple times that that's not what I'm saying.

And you completely ignored me asking how you felt about the women that you may have bothered. I don't think you're trolling but I do think you need some classes in empathy.

kylith

kylith wrote: »

This is the problem with #metoo, what one person would see as a compliment or a trivial annoyance another could be deeply affected by. I'd explain it as like a phobia; some people aren't bothered by rats at all, some people will scream for help should they have so much of an inkling that there's a mouse somewhere in the house. Therefore you shouldn't go lobbing rodents at someone unless you know them well enough to know how they will react. Similarly; be polite and respectful in your remarks to other people: you don't know what they have gone through in their life.

I can never help but imagine that PUA guy is Wolowitz from Big Bang Theory when he shows up.

Or this

kylith

Deleted User wrote: »

Or this

Nah, he looks more like one of those guys who thinks women are vending machines where you put 'being nice' in and sex falls out, then whines about the 'friendzone' while the woman is like, 'but I thought we were friends!'

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

Ah man it's a little immature to claim you're having trolled when you got detailed replies to all your points.

Once again. Not what I said. I said that sometimes I thought you were trolling because you did reinterpret posts to suit yourself.

As for not answering your question, you also didn't answer a few of mine. Doesn't matter though. You have your own opinions about dating/harassment which are very different than mine. We're just having circular arguments which adds nothing to the thread.

Let's leave it at that without directing comments about either of our personalities.

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

On the other hand, there are those that started in the PUA scene, didn't like the negativity within it and have gone a different direction. They learn NLP to better understand the meanings of conversations, body language, meditation to center themselves, and will generally behave as gentlemen. The common theme is "leaving a woman better than when you found her". For them, the dating is not about sex as a primary reason, but because they're looking to expand their life experiences, or find a successful relationship.

I actually had a feeling you were involved with PUA. You sounded like a milder version of that other poster. Whats common to both of you (he was more explicit about it but there were hints of it in your posts and you're being explicit now) is this frankly naive and creepy view that you're improving these womens lives. I don't think it's a respectful view at all. It seems incredibly narcissistic. And you never acknowledge that you can bother women, even though you know.women can be bothered by Polite approaches.

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Once again. Not what I said. I said that sometimes I thought you were trolling because you did reinterpret posts to suit yourself.

As for not answering your question, you also didn't answer a few of mine. Doesn't matter though. You have your own opinions about dating/harassment which are very different than mine. We're just having circular arguments which adds nothing to the thread.

Let's leave it at that without directing comments about either of our personalities.

I'm happy to answer any question. Some points I didn't respond to if I felt I'd already covered them

I'll ask again: how do you feel about the women who do not like to be approached by strangers in public that you have bothered?

anewme

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No idea. I'm not exactly promoting it or seeking a discussion about PUA. Surely some clarification on PUA is acceptable. Still, knock your socks off and report it.

I only only discovered what p u a was last night...and I googled it. I've lived this long without knowing what it was with no loss.

It is a complete crock.

With respect to you, I can see from your posts that you are an advocate of this. Not in the extreme sense like the weird person who constantly gets banned, but enough to have some rather unusual opinions, and in my mind, unhealthy ones.

anewme

LLMMLL wrote: »

I actually had a feeling you were involved with PUA. You sounded like a milder version of that other poster. Whats common to both of you (he was more explicit about it but there were hints of it in your posts and you're being explicit now) is this frankly naive and creepy view that you're improving these womens lives. I don't think it's a respectful view at all. It seems incredibly narcissistic. And you never acknowledge that you can bother women, even though you know.women can be bothered by Polite approaches.

I was typing this at the same time as you and totally agree it's clear the poster is a milder version of the weirdo stuff but still very unhealthy and odd and sexist.

The post about using breasts as showpieces makes perfect sense now. As do some of the other extreme opinions.

It is clear to me as a woman that this poster does not respect me as an equal.

anewme

anewme wrote: »

With respect to you, I can see from your posts that you are an advocate of this. Not in the extreme sense like the weird person who constantly gets banned, but enough to have some rather unusual opinions, and in my mind, unhealthy ones.

I am not an advocate of PUA. I am an advocate of men learning how to communicate better, and learning to respect both themselves and the women they meet.

It's funny in a way. I suggest that men can approach a woman, be polite, and walk away from a refusal without any drama or harassment... and in return, it's somehow unhealthy.

It's also amusing that I'm an advocate of PUA when I clearly state my opinion of it. Did you even bother to read the post or simply decide to agree with LLMMLL for the sake of convenience?

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's funny in a way. I suggest that men can approach a woman, be polite, and walk away from a refusal without any drama or harassment... and in return, it's somehow unhealthy.

Just because there's no drama doesn't mean there's no harassment. I guarantee you've approached women who have felt harassed by you, especially of you were doing this when you lived in NYC.

anewme

anewme wrote: »

The post about using breasts as showpieces makes perfect sense now. As do some of the other extreme opinions.

"Breasts as showpieces" was in relation to womens fashions that can often be revealing or provocative. Some women do seek the attention of men in how they dress. But that doesn't matter because men should never stare at a woman without her express permission.

It is clear to me as a woman that this poster does not respect me as an equal.

Tell me something. Have I insulted you at all? Have I made any observations about you as a person or poster on boards?

I haven't about you. You have about me. Perhaps think about that?

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

Just because there's no drama doesn't mean there's no harassment. I guarantee you've approached women who have felt harassed by you, especially of you were doing this when you lived in NYC.

How can you guarantee anything of the sort?

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How can you guarantee anything of the sort?

Just by going on realistic probabilities. There's clearly a significant number of women who view this as harassing such as brie Larson, many of the women posting on#metoo, my sister, all her friends etc. They don't care if the guy is polite and leaves straight away. They just don't want to be approached by yet another guy while out doing their day to day business.

If you think you've NEVER tried to chat up one of these women then you're mad.

B0jangles

Deleted User wrote: »

I am not an advocate of PUA. I am an advocate of men learning how to communicate better, and learning to respect both themselves and the women they meet.

It's funny in a way. I suggest that men can approach a woman, be polite, and walk away from a refusal without any drama or harassment... and in return, it's somehow unhealthy.

It's also amusing that I'm an advocate of PUA when I clearly state my opinion of it. Did you even bother to read the post or simply decide to agree with LLMMLL for the sake of convenience?

Ok, can you accept that if a woman lives somewhere that this kind of tactic is common then she may be approached very frequently?

That your polite, non-dramatic, non-harrassing approach might be the second, or third, or fourth she's had to deal with just that day?

You say that YOU are polite, YOU are nice, but the women you approach have no earthly way of knowing that.

Your tactic also relies heavily on the fact that most women know from experience that telling guys like you to piss off can get very loud and very threatening. So you should realise that they are not always polite because they are flattered; they are just trying to stop the situation getting aggressive and possibly violent.

But's all that's worth it, as long as you get what you want, eh?

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

If you think you've NEVER tried to chat up one of these women then you're mad.

I've already said that I've been outright ignored by a few women. And other women were able to give me a simple refusal, and carry on with whatever they were doing. Were they irritated by me? It's definitely possible.

Was it a damaging experience to them? Highly unlikely. It is possible, of course... but its far more likely that she would have forgotten the incident ten seconds after it happened because there was no threat or pressure involved.

B0jangles

B0jangles wrote: »

But's all that's worth it, as long as you get what you want, eh?

Can you point to anywhere in my posts where I suggested anything like that?

Fact is... I've received positive reactions to my approaches. As I've repeatedly said I have also been ignored a few times, and I've received polite declarations of no interest, or that they have a boyfriend. No problem.

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I've already said that I've been outright ignored by a few women. And other women were able to give me a simple refusal, and carry on with whatever they were doing. Were they irritated by me? It's definitely possible.

Was it a damaging experience to them? Highly unlikely. It is possible, of course... but its far more likely that she would have forgotten the incident ten seconds after it happened because there was no threat or pressure involved.

Damaging is not the measure of harassment. Nobody's suggesting that these women are curled up int he shower crying because you chatted them up. But you are bothering at least some of those women you approach and they are feeling harassed.

Like the example I gave of a female friend who literally had to leave an area to stop a guy bothering her. She's not damaged. But you yourself think he harassed her.

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

Like the example I gave of a female friend who literally had to leave an area to stop a guy bothering her. She's not damaged. But you yourself think he harassed her.

Your example spoke of a guy who was refused and wouldn't stop pestering her. That is harassment. Approaching a woman once, finding the answer, and withdrawing immediately, is not harassment. Simple.

Look. I get it. I've read your posts and I understand your opinion on the matter. I just don't agree with your perception.

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Your example spoke of a guy who was refused and wouldn't stop pestering her. That is harassment. Approaching a woman once, finding the answer, and withdrawing immediately, is not harassment. Simple.

It's actually not simple in the context of other guys doing it as well. If as a previous poster you are the 4th guy to do it to a woman that day that will leave her feelings harassed even if you feel you haven't harassed.

What is your opinion on women who do. It want to be approached? Is it a "tough luck that's life" kind of thing for you?

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

It's actually not simple in the context of other guys doing it as well.

Collective responsibility, is that it? Nope. I don't agree with that.

I am not responsible for your behavior simply because we share a gender. Just as I am not responsible for the behavior of other single guys, simply because we're single.

If as a previous poster you are the 4th guy to do it to a woman that day that will leave her feelings harassed even if you feel you haven't harassed.

She might feel harassed. She might not feel harassed. She might feel happy to meet someone different from these "others". She mightn't even care in the slightest. You don't know and I don't know. It's pure guesswork.

What is your opinion on women who do. It want to be approached? Is it a "tough luck that's life" kind of thing for you?

I don't see it as a particular issue because I've never experienced this level of exasperation that you believe is so common in women who get approached. I've always found women to be perfectly capable of expressing their like or dislike about any given situation, and I haven't heard any women express your sentiments. I'm sure that there are some women who feel as you do... but I haven't, to my knowledge, met any of them.

And before you seize on "to my knowledge", I will repeat that women are fully capable of expressing themselves on any given subject. If they felt harassed by my approach, they'd likely tell me...

And, once again, we're repeating the same argument of the last few pages. It's all been discussed. you keep bringing up the same arguments to things I've already replied to. We have different opinions on this subject.