NBA Regular Season & Playoffs 2017-18

ButtersSuki

NufcNavan wrote: »

Lebron led the series in points, assists, field goal percentage and was 3rd in rebounds carrying an awful team.

Nobody is denying Curry's or Durant's greatness but context has to be taken into consideration. One team was loaded with 3 future HOFers where it becomes much easier for them to go off and the other was just garbage.

Throw all the insults you want. I am not a Lebron fanboy but I have a lot more respect for what he did this year in the playoffs than any other.

You are aware his team lost?
You are aware they were swept?
You are aware only one player has ever been Finals MVP on a losing team - and that was in a 7 game series?

You are aware he was outplayed in games 2, 3 and 4, right? You still haven’t commented on this btw. Or do you seriously think he was the best player and had the most influence on the results in those games? I’m genuinrly curious.

You said everyone knows who the real MVP is, you said he still should have got it though they were swept and that he would have gotten it if they had gone 5.

Almost every journalist/commentator believes it was a race between Curry and Durant for Finals MVP but your statements were not questioning, they were definitive like there was no room for debate on the subject. That’s fanboy territory.

Either you’re new to basketball/US sports and how MVP voting works or comparing it to other sports but there’s something seriously flawed in your thinking if you think a guy getting swept is getting MVP.

Is he the single best player in the game right now? Yes. Of all the players in the Finals did he have the best series? No. That’s not being a hater. That’s just a fact.

Itssoeasy

ButtersSuki wrote: »

You are aware only one player has ever been Finals MVP on a losing team - and that was in a 7 game series?

Jerry west 1969 wasn't it ? Although the lakers should have won that game and series against the Celtics. Don nelson got a lucky bounce and wilt didn't play for most of the second half after hurting his knee and then not being allowed back in(depends on who you believe), and you being a purist butters you'd love the lack of travelling in it.

Paully D

Joe Dog wrote: »

But most of the top quality sports stars like Lebron are fairly squeaky clean off the field you don't hear of Federer,Nadal,Messi,McIlroy,Spieth etc having much off the field issues.

The same Messi that was only last year convicted for tax evasion? :pac:

Joe Dog

Paully D wrote: »

The same Messi that was only last year convicted for tax evasion? :pac:

It was his father who did that, Messi knew nothing about it.

ButtersSuki

More haters:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buq2wv70dwY

Barkley (though prone on occasion to exaggeration), is spot on here about LeBron being passive in Game 4 and how his demeanour affects his team mates. Webber and Smith agree btw.


Tim Legler & Michael Wilbon:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1B4jJs9Tvo

I could post videos all night about ALL of the people discussing the KD v Curry MVP debate, and how the Cavs gave up in Game 4.



I won't post any of the Stephen A. comments as it's Stephen A. He's normally a big LeBron fan but even he called him out on Games 2-4, and esp. Game 4.

ButtersSuki

Changing tack slightly, this was the Warriors in 2012....not that long ago:

http://grantland.com/features/how-annoy-fan-base-60-easy-steps/

LuckyLloyd

ButtersSuki wrote: »

You are aware he was outplayed in games 2, 3 and 4, right? You still haven’t commented on this btw. Or do you seriously think he was the best player and had the most influence on the results in those games? I’m genuinrly curious.

The 'issue' is that in games 2 and 3 he outplayed one of Durant / Curry each time. Should a series MVP be able to have an off day like Curry's game 3?

But no matter, they don't give it to players on the losing side. There was talk two year's ago that they wouldn't have given it to LeBron had they lost game 7. Just the way it is.

==========

As to the rest, yeah the Cavs gave up in game 4. So what? After an uninspiring game four providing the expected outcome to the series at the outset (a sweep) the talking heads were left with nothing to talk about other than that, hence the focus.

ButtersSuki

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The 'issue' is that in games 2 and 3 he outplayed one of Durant / Curry each time. Should a series MVP be able to have an off day like Curry's game 3?

But no matter, they don't give it to players on the losing side. There was talk two year's ago that they wouldn't have given it to LeBron had they lost game 7. Just the way it is.

==========

As to the rest, yeah the Cavs gave up in game 4. So what? After an uninspiring game four providing the expected outcome to the series at the outset (a sweep) the talking heads were left with nothing to talk about other than that, hence the focus.

So you're admitting he (LeBron) shouldn't have been MVP? Ok, great. Glad that's finally settled.

ButtersSuki

Btw, I saw this over the weekend and couldn't post at the time (nor can I now) but it's his presser from before Game 4 where he says words to the effect of "Golden State 1-5 are more talented than us".



Now while that is factually true, you don't say that out loud if you're in the fight. You have to tout the line that you can win. Imagine being a Cavs player and hearing that? It says that essentially your best player doesn't believe you can win. Psychologically it's defeatist.


Casey said something like this in the Toronto Cavs series and was rightly criticised for it. LeBron seems to have gotten a pass as usual, though I haven't followed up on it fully.

ButtersSuki

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

As to the rest, yeah the Cavs gave up in game 4. So what? After an uninspiring game four providing the expected outcome to the series at the outset (a sweep) the talking heads were left with nothing to talk about other than that, hence the focus.

So you think it's ok to just give up like they did? I find that very strange tbh.

vetinari

They were down 3 to 0 and once the game started going away from them in the second quarter, players started dropping their heads.
You'd prefer if it doesn't happen but I've seen it happen lots of times.
No matter the effort level, they were still losing the series.

Now while that is factually true, you don't say that out loud if you're in the fight. You have to tout the line that you can win. Imagine being a Cavs player and hearing that? It says that essentially your best player doesn't believe you can win. Psychologically it's defeatist.

Tbh, it was over after game 1. It didn't really matter what LeBron said before game 4.
He could have said he 100% thought they were going to win the series and his teammates would have thought he was full of ****.

LuckyLloyd

ButtersSuki wrote: »

So you think it's ok to just give up like they did? I find that very strange tbh.

What was it, 0 - 113 for teams 0 - 3 in the playoffs?

Your posts are in bits tbh.

ButtersSuki

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

What was it, 0 - 113 for teams 0 - 3 in the playoffs?

Your posts are in bits tbh.

My posts are in bits? :rolleyes:



Ok, just give up then. You certainly can't change those stats if you don't try.


If they went down fighting that's one thing, but to just give up like they did is shameful.



Oh, I'm just "hating" again. And so are all the other people who called him out for this I assume?


You LeBron fans have an excuse for everything.

LuckyLloyd

Your posting the last few weeks is through a prism of LeBron. Sure, you’ll say you praised him a couple of times but there’s been a lot of minimising the good and now looking to put the boot in. You can cite whoever and whatever: the media and pundits will try and make something / anything out of a finals series even though a sweep was priced as the overwhelming likely outcome from the outset - there’s nothing interesting to talk about really.

Focussing on LeBron on his own in this context is more of that. There was an entire team; coach; bench and crowd that were beaten ahead of game four.

There’s nothing “shameful” about a team massively outmatched all over the floor having their heads drop after taking a couple of close losses and being in a position from which 113 previous teams lost.

All you need here is the tiniest amount of emphathy.

vetinari

Yeah, it very much seems like a manufactured storyline.
As you said, a sweep or (4-1) was by far the most likely outcome.
Now that it's happened pretty much as expected, pundits are scrambling for some element of drama.

qwabercd

The two of ye will never agree on LeBron. Have gone round and round in circles so many different times from every different angle. Why bother? Just agree to disagree, nobody wants to read it and ye are wasting your own time posting it.

irishman86

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Sure. Call me a hater for not saying LeBron was the MVP of the Finals then in a series where his team got swept. By that logic there’s s lot of haters out there.

People are so desperate for him to get the MVP its got kinda sad
One good game in which he lost on the way to a sweep where he was behind Durant & Curry (Who should have won it imo)

irishman86

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Btw, I saw this over the weekend and couldn't post at the time (nor can I now) but it's his presser from before Game 4 where he says words to the effect of "Golden State 1-5 are more talented than us".



Now while that is factually true, you don't say that out loud if you're in the fight. You have to tout the line that you can win. Imagine being a Cavs player and hearing that? It says that essentially your best player doesn't believe you can win. Psychologically it's defeatist.


Casey said something like this in the Toronto Cavs series and was rightly criticised for it. LeBron seems to have gotten a pass as usual, though I haven't followed up on it fully.

Kevin Love has been listed a centre this season i dont think GS have anyone as good as him (Excluding when Green is there)
Lebron is as good as Durant, i feel his better than us 1-5 is another excuse
As a Lakers fan i really hope he doesnt don the purple and gold

Paully D

Okay then guys, call your shot:

Who will LeBron sign for?

While the Lakers make the most sense in terms of the allure of the franchise, LeBron’s business ventures etc, and the Rockets would without question give him the best chance of immediately getting past the Warriors, I’m going to say the 76ers.

The reason being I don’t think he’ll want to play out in the extremely competitive West, especially not for a team who won’t be in a position to challenge immediately.

Even though the 76ers won’t be either, adding LeBron is still probably enough to get them to a Finals straight away due to the East being a crock of ****e.

2smiggy

I just hope it's not the Celtics. They would have to sacrifice too much to fit him in, and he is getting on. He will have to start slowing down a bit eventually !!

Plus I doubt Irvine would be too happy to see him arrive. He may be someone that would be jettisoned to fit him in.

LuckyLloyd

irishman86 wrote: »

People are so desperate for him to get the MVP its got kinda sad
One good game in which he lost on the way to a sweep where he was behind Durant & Curry (Who should have won it imo)

No - one here has been "desperate" for him to win the award.

Curry's game 3 lost him the MVP and it's hard to argue with that tbh.

irishman86 wrote: »

As a Lakers fan i really hope he doesnt don the purple and gold

Really? You haven't made the playoffs since 2013. Your win totals since:

27
21
17
26
35 (with Isiaih Thomas and Brook Lopez's expiring deals on the floor)

Your roster is perfect to bring in LeBron and help. You have a mere $37.5m in play and the only terrible contract is two more years of Luol Deng at $18 per year. LeBron coming makes the whole post Kobe tank worth it, well worth it. Find anyway possible to offload Deng to a team looking to tank, and you could rebuild the roster from scratch around LeBron, Ball and Ingram.

If you hate LeBron so much that you'd pass up this shot for your franchise it's quite sad tbh.

Paully D wrote: »

Okay then guys, call your shot:

Who will LeBron sign for?

While the Lakers make the most sense in terms of the allure of the franchise, LeBron’s business ventures etc, and the Rockets would without question give him the best chance of immediately getting past the Warriors, I’m going to say the 76ers.

The reason being I don’t think he’ll want to play out in the extremely competitive West, especially not for a team who won’t be in a position to challenge immediately.

Even though the 76ers won’t be either, adding LeBron is still probably enough to get them to a Finals straight away due to the East being a crock of ****e.

The Lakers and the 76ers are the two best places he can go, and I could understand him leaning towards Philadelphia because of Embiid and Simmons already being there - the latter potentially being a seamless player to swap minutes with as he ages.

2smiggy wrote: »

I just hope it's not the Celtics. They would have to sacrifice too much to fit him in, and he is getting on. He will have to start slowing down a bit eventually !!

Plus I doubt Irvine would be too happy to see him arrive. He may be someone that would be jettisoned to fit him in.

You'd trade Irving's very tradeable contract to create room and flexibility to take him on. However much people like Kyrie, it would make the Celtics the most competitive they've been since the big three overnight.

tuisginideach

Is there ever any (top level) basketball on in New York in August - going on holiday and would love to see a match.

ButtersSuki

irishman86 wrote: »

People are so desperate for him to get the MVP its got kinda sad
One good game in which he lost on the way to a sweep where he was behind Durant & Curry (Who should have won it imo)

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

No - one here has been "desperate" for him to win the award.

Ah....

NufcNavan wrote: »

And Lebron was the MVP. Everyone knows it. But because it was a sweep there's no way they could give it to him. Maybe if the Cavs took it to 5 or 6 he might have gotten it.

ButtersSuki

tuisginideach wrote: »

Is there ever any (top level) basketball on in New York in August - going on holiday and would love to see a match.

There's no NBA in August unfortunately. Earliest pre-season games usually start in mid-late September.

You might also be lucky if one of the two NBA teams are holding open practices, but August is possibly a little early for this.You might get a college practice, or maybe a pre season game, but I assume you were mainly asking about the pros.

In Olympic or World Championship/World Cup years there can be games, but they're generally Team USA v other countries, and to be fair will usually be in Vegas, but they did play in NY in the run up to the 2010 Worlds.

What you can do is go to some of the parks and see some top level talent (Rucker Park is an example). Occasionally you'll get NBA players come and play here, but the place will be crazy if there's a whiff of an NBA player coming. Check the interweb for what's on when you're there.

The Madison Square Garden Tour will be running when you're there....not the same as a game, but it's interesting.

WNBA will be on......but unless you're a hoops junkie I wouldn't.

ButtersSuki

2011:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoOXKha7uL4

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/730901-lebron-james-and-dwyane-wade-mocking-dirks-illness-is-it-a-big-deal




2018:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDsMHZ4S6R8

Well said Jalen. And Michelle. Or are they haters?

And don't forget the Spurs Air Con game........always an excuse for the "haters".

LuckyLloyd

That you constantly return to a season seven years in the past is a bit sad, no? I'm sure LeBron would redo an awful lot of things about the Decision and the 2011 finals if he could. He hurt his hand, he hid an injury from the opposition then wore a protective cast once the season was over. What in the name of jaysus is such a big deal about any of that? Don't get it.

The criticism that should be leveled at him is for hurting his hand. Very stupid allowing emotions to get the best of him and ensuring his next two performances were merely excellent as opposed to godlike in G1. Competitive people do silly things in the heat of the moment all the same.

ButtersSuki

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

That you constantly return to a season seven years in the past is a bit sad, no? I'm sure LeBron would redo an awful lot of things about the Decision and the 2011 finals if he could. He hurt his hand, he hid an injury from the opposition then wore a protective cast once the season was over. What in the name of jaysus is such a big deal about any of that? Don't get it.

The criticism that should be leveled at him is for hurting his hand. Very stupid allowing emotions to get the best of him and ensuring his next two performances were merely excellent as opposed to godlike in G1. Competitive people do silly things in the heat of the moment all the same.

I can see you clearly don't get it. It's classic LeBron to attempt to sway the narrative to make it more about him. But it's not just me saying it - it's Jalen Rose, it's many, many other commentators across media the last few days. Are they all haters too?



He could easily have done the presser and then put it on and gone away for 3 weeks and no-one would know about it. But no, doing this puts an excuse in, and allows those who believe he's better than Jordan to come out with "if he hadn't hurt his hand, the Cavs would have won" nonsense.



It's also a contusion, not a broken hand - and there's a big difference in those; but once again let's not let the facts interfere with the myth.


And for the 1,000th (at least) time - he is the greatest player of his generation - but that does not make him immune from criticism as you and many other seem to think.

LuckyLloyd

ButtersSuki wrote: »

I can see you clearly don't get it. It's classic LeBron to attempt to sway the narrative to make it more about him. But it's not just me saying it - it's Jalen Rose, it's many, many other commentators across media the last few days. Are they all haters too?



He could easily have done the presser and then put it on and gone away for 3 weeks and no-one would know about it. But no, doing this puts an excuse in, and allows those who believe he's better than Jordan to come out with "if he hadn't hurt his hand, the Cavs would have won" nonsense.



It's also a contusion, not a broken hand - and there's a big difference in those; but once again let's not let the facts interfere with the myth.


And for the 1,000th (at least) time - he is the greatest player of his generation - but that does not make him immune from criticism as you and many other seem to think.

It's all a bit tinfoil hat like, no? No - one has stated that had he not broken his hand they would have won. The media fanning this nonsense is related, imo, to them having nothing else interesting to talk about regarding the NBA Finals but needing to fill airtime on it nonetheless.

ButtersSuki

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It's all a bit tinfoil hat like, no? No - one has stated that had he not broken his hand they would have won. The media fanning this nonsense is related, imo, to them having nothing else interesting to talk about regarding the NBA Finals but needing to fill airtime on it nonetheless.

No-one in the media has stated it, but I never said that they had. I said it allows LeBron fans (regular people) to say "what if?".



The fact he's been widely criticised for it - and given his previous commentary on/mocking of other players for excuses (the Dirk example) - says a lot about him. But no doubt you won't accept that, as you seem unable to be objective on anything about LeBron. It's one rule for LeBron, and one for everyone else it seems.


Believe it or not you can be the best player in the world and still have valid reasons for criticism, on both your play and how you conduct yourself.

ButtersSuki

Genuine question - is Jalen Rose now in your "hater" group for calling him out on this?


Bet you won't answer that directly.