Cork GAA Discussion Thread

ShamoBuc

Soft yellows for Cork while Gleeson dodges a blatant red. We are not good enough but still in there.

Speakerboxx

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Soft yellows for Cork while Gleeson dodges a blatant red. We are not good enough but still in there.

We don't derserve to win. This team is going no where. Everything is horrific with the team today.

The White Feather

We need a goal in the next few mins or its game over. We are lucky to be only 5 down.

A complete mess of a performance all over. We look like there is no one in the forwards when we need a goal

ShamoBuc

You'd wonder how we had 1 in the ff line and they had 3 back there. Ridiculous.

zetecescort

We are as far as ever from an All Ireland. We'll hit twenty years without one yet

The White Feather

That point earlier for Waterford sums us up. A defender just raced out of the defence and kept going. Passed it and a point. No way should a defender be allowed run that far out of his defence.

I expected so much better but this has been one of our worst performances ever. We look jaded and just keep doing the same thing every match. No tweaks at all. We need a real clearout but it won't happen with Kingston.

ACitizenErased

Kingston has a lot of questions to answer after this. Team selection and tactics just devoid of any logic.

Coneygree

Lot of the old guard need to be told to jog on. Loyal servants but their time has passed. I don't think Kingston is the man to tell them though unfortunately. We'll continue to go backwards until they're cleared out of the panel.

ShamoBuc

Very disappointing but unfortunately not surprising.

We'll probably do well in the qualifiers and all this will be 'forgotten' for another year.

ACitizenErased

That panel needs to be cleared out. Half of them are not good enough.

RedRochey

Concerning as well that we haven't really introduced any new players of note in the last few years, 2017 was the last time with Darragh Fitz, Coleman and one or two others

None of the new lads today stood out

DellyBelly

We just don't have the players. I said it watching the county final. If Blackrock and the Glen are the 2 best team in Cork then we'd have no chance in the all Ireland series.. This feels very low

RedRochey

DellyBelly wrote: »

We just don't have the players. I said it watching the county final. If Blackrock and the Glen are the 2 best team in Cork then we'd have no chance in the all Ireland series.. This feels very low

Whatever about not having the players, you still expect 100% effort from the players you have

ACitizenErased

Management being absolutely slated on social media.

ShamoBuc

To be expected. Cannot do the same things with the same players and simply expect different results.

The White Feather

ShamoBuc wrote: »

To be expected. Cannot do the same things with the same players and simply expect different results.

That is one of the biggest things that annoyed me. We seem to have no plan B. We keep doing the same things over and over again.

This is managements fault. They have to set out what the players have to do.

We looked like a team of sleepwalkers going through the motions. No one seemed hyped up that this is the Munster Championship. I only saw Harnedy giving a few fist pumps. When you see opposition players running out of their defence and no one running with them never mind crashing into them turning them back, then that leads me to believe fellas aren't that bothered or they don't believe in whats going on.

They only won by 4 points and this was I think one of our worst performances ever. We look like a team of individuals rather than a cohesive unit.

At some stages we looked like we had no forwards at all, whatever Kingston was trying to do wasn't working.

It was so frustrating to watch.

Pos087

Anger is the predominant feeling after that. I know a lot of people were saying get behind the team before throw in and telling those of us that were complaining about the team selection to stop complaining BUT 90% of people I have spoken to could point out the failings of this team before throw in.

I can’t understand how we get so much run over in midfield and yet every time we hit long balls into the forwards we are outnumber and the balls into the forwards you would not see in a junior B game.

We have no game plan. It’s try short puck outs and if that doesn’t work hit it as far as we can to men we’ll outnumbered and no men running in to pick the second ball. I’m guessing from the 30 odd long puck outs our wins are in the single digit. Of the second balls we won less.

Kingston has put his management on the line here. They got this very wrong. It was my first time in years watching Cork live on tele as we always there. It was a horrible experience from the 10th min on. I think we are stuck with the idea that we have lovely wristy hurlers. This is not true and has not been true for a long time. We were a lot more than 4 points a worse team today. I can’t believe that a management with such hurling pedigree are so blind to tactics were we get outnumbered all over the field.

I could keep going with a rant of what else is wrong with our tactics and team selection but I’m to annoyed.

The_Kew_Tour

As far away as winning a All Ireland as we ever have. Going be a very short Winter.

At least we dont have watch us been beaten out the gate by Tipp or Limerick

Straight Talker

How many more chances do some of these players need? They have proven time and time again, that they don't have the desire and ruthlessness to win. A four point defeat was very flattering. Waterford were by far the better team. It's fifteen years without an all Ireland, and there's just no light at the end of the tunnel. Frank may be gone, but we still have problems.

We lost the winning mentality that killer instinct in the years between 06 and 08, and we never got it back. I fear that our years in this barren wilderness, have destroyed what this powerhouse of a hurling county has stood for. I pray and hope that I'm wrong. I think we still haven't recovered, from that semi final against Limerick in 2018. This team may not be good enough to win the all Ireland, but a lack of desire intensity workrate is totally unacceptable

lim4ev

Straight Talker wrote: »

How many more chances do some of these players need? They have proven time and time again, that they don't have the desire and ruthlessness to win. A four point defeat was very flattering. Waterford were by far the better team. It's fifteen years without an all Ireland, and there's just no light at the end of the tunnel. Frank may be gone, but we still have problems.

We lost the winning mentality that killer instinct in the years between 06 and 08, and we never got it back. I fear that our years in this barren wilderness, have destroyed what this powerhouse of a hurling county has stood for. I pray and hope that I'm wrong. I think we still haven't recovered, from that semi final against Limerick in 2018. This team may not be good enough to win the all Ireland, but a lack of desire intensity workrate is totally unacceptable

From a limerick mans point of view losing can get into your psyche and then when you are in a position of winning it can be hard getting over the line believe me I know I'm watching Limerick 45 years and we have done this. We wouldnt always have had the quality but had enough to win 3 or 4 all irelands between 73 and 2018 even in 18 we scraped over the line in a match we were far superior but hoping thats done now and if we get there again we can drive on.
Re cork if they get a run in the qualifiers you'd just never know momentum is key but no doubt yesterday was as poor a performance I think I've ever seen from cork it definitely was as bad as when wexford beat ye I think in 2016 and I don't see it getting much better for ye in the short term I know there's a huge amount of work going into yer underage but that's the same with all the top counties plus yer main man hoggie is pushing on he's 33 next yr and how in the name of God is anyone going to replace him? A finer hurler I haven't seen many of I don't know him but he seems to be a gent on the field and off he might end up to be the greatest ever not to have won an all ireland.

redlead

The Cork forwards seem to get a lot of the blame when things go wrong for Cork. Even management started swapping out corner forwards that weren't being fed any ball in the first place. That was never going to change anything. The bigger problem for Cork is in defence. There is a lack of ball winners there and it got to the stage where Waterford knew that all they had to do was run at Cork and they would be dragged down. You see complaints on social media about the ref being against Cork but when you look back they just kept on pulling Waterford players down. They are such cheap scores to concede but all because they kept losing the 50/50s in the first place.

Hard to know what happened with Cork. Waterford will always give a team a chance to come back at them so I never believe a match is over until the final whistle but with 15 mins to go I was thinking there is no chance that Cork were going to win. Waterford are a good team but nothing special so its very worrying. Cork management made mistakes but the players just don't seem to be there.

Folers23

Same old problems unfortunately - no dominant half back line (a necessary element of pretty much every all-Ireland winning team) and a poor balance up front.

I am less concerned about the full back line as neither Spillane or O’Leary were fit yesterday and I think they are both big additions to come back in.

As much as it feels like robbing Peter to pay Paul, I think Cooper has to move to six to bring a presence and some solidity to the backs. I worry whether Downey has the melter all movement to get across to runners coming from deep like Barron / Lyons did yesterday. Maybe it was too soon to get parachute them straight in if they haven’t been part of the panel up until now, but the likes of Niall Cashman and James O’Flynn have to be given a good look in the next league.

Anyone who has watched much club hurling over the years will find it hard to argue that Horgan, Cadogan, Kingston and Lehane are not the top 5 forwards in the county along with Harnedy. However we can’t get away with playing the four of them together at once. It leaves too much on Harnedy’s shoulders in terms of ball winning. The balance was a lot better last year with Walsh playing. I think Lehane has to drop out and two of Robbie O’Flynn, Walsh and Dalton play.

Presuming all bar Fitzgibbon are fit the next day I would be hoping for something along the lines of the following. Realistically though, we are going nowhere fast this year so if younger lads on the panel such as Hennessey, Connery, Meaney or Turnbull get a go I would be happy with that also.

Nash
NOL Spillane SOLH
Downey Cooper O’Mahony
Meade Coleman
O’Flynn Walsh Kingston
Hoggie Harnedy Cadogan

awaywithyou

Pos087 wrote: »

Anger is the predominant feeling after that. I know a lot of people were saying get behind the team before throw in and telling those of us that were complaining about the team selection to stop complaining BUT 90% of people I have spoken to could point out the failings of this team before throw in.

I can’t understand how we get so much run over in midfield and yet every time we hit long balls into the forwards we are outnumber and the balls into the forwards you would not see in a junior B game.

We have no game plan. It’s try short puck outs and if that doesn’t work hit it as far as we can to men we’ll outnumbered and no men running in to pick the second ball. I’m guessing from the 30 odd long puck outs our wins are in the single digit. Of the second balls we won less.

Kingston has put his management on the line here. They got this very wrong. It was my first time in years watching Cork live on tele as we always there. It was a horrible experience from the 10th min on. I think we are stuck with the idea that we have lovely wristy hurlers. This is not true and has not been true for a long time. We were a lot more than 4 points a worse team today. I can’t believe that a management with such hurling pedigree are so blind to tactics were we get outnumbered all over the field.

I could keep going with a rant of what else is wrong with our tactics and team selection but I’m to annoyed.

Im not a Cork man... but some of the criticism here is very harsh i think.... what are the failings? what players are not good enough?? and more importantly are they guys good enuf to replace these players... a couple of years in Kerry Eamon Fitzmaurice got alot of criticism which was deserved for not blooding young players like Peter Keane has done.... he deserved it because we had won 5 minor all irelands in a row... Cork havent had that success... i think Cork football has a brighter future having won minor and u20 all irelands last year... and those years where Kerry won minor.. Cork were most years the 2nd best minor team in the country...

Responsibility for yere performance yest must be shared around and not directed soley at Kieran Kingston

Rosita

Straight Talker wrote: »

Frank may be gone, but we still have problems.

QUOTE]


Indeed. It might well turn out that Cork's problems are deeper and more structural than the identity of the County Board secretary.

Straight Talker

lim4ev wrote: »

From a limerick mans point of view losing can get into your psyche and then when you are in a position of winning it can be hard getting over the line believe me I know I'm watching Limerick 45 years and we have done this. We wouldnt always have had the quality but had enough to win 3 or 4 all irelands between 73 and 2018 even in 18 we scraped over the line in a match we were far superior but hoping thats done now and if we get there again we can drive on.
Re cork if they get a run in the qualifiers you'd just never know momentum is key but no doubt yesterday was as poor a performance I think I've ever seen from cork it definitely was as bad as when wexford beat ye I think in 2016 and I don't see it getting much better for ye in the short term I know there's a huge amount of work going into yer underage but that's the same with all the top counties plus yer main man hoggie is pushing on he's 33 next yr and how in the name of God is anyone going to replace him? A finer hurler I haven't seen many of I don't know him but he seems to be a gent on the field and off he might end up to be the greatest ever not to have won an all ireland.

I think with regards to talent, we have hurlers as good as any other county in Ireland. It's the workrate and application etc that's leaving us down. And this seems to be an issue with Cork hurling teams across all grades. We have won 3 munster titles in the past 6 years. But munster titles are no good, if you don't land the all ireland. There's plenty of talent in Cork. But management keep picking the same players who have failed to deliver, time and time again.

Straight Talker

Rosita wrote: »

Straight Talker wrote: »

Frank may be gone, but we still have problems.

QUOTE]


Indeed. It might well turn out that Cork's problems are deeper and more structural than the identity of the County Board secretary.

Frank's goodbye present to the county, was the new redeveloped pairc. Of course we needed a more modern stadium. But the project went way over the budget. And that's the thing you see. To compete with the Tipps and Dublins of this world, requires serious financial resources being put towards, the preparation of the intercounty squads. But the amount of money that can be put towards the preparation of the intercounty squads, has been hampered by the debt incurred from the stadium redevelopment project.

The White Feather

awaywithyou wrote: »

Responsibility for yere performance yest must be shared around and not directed soley at Kieran Kingston

Sorry, but of course it is his fault. The buck always stops with the manager. Its not like we were 2 points up and some player made a mistake to let them in on a winning goal. It was desperate stuff all over.

Before the game I said I read that article where Kingston said that without the league its hard to throw in new players. That kind of made sense to me. He also said "I don't know where we are" That kind of makes sense also due to covid but we weren't the only team in that position. Everyone is. He should know everyone is hyped up for it and raring to go at them. The indifference worried me but I was prepared to give him the benefit of doubt. Then we just keep doing the same things. We keep giving teams early goals either straight away first half or second half. Same thing happened yesterday.

We got a great team score with everyone helping it along and it went over the bar. Then Waterford puck it out. Guy catches it. Runs a bit and lays it off to a teammate and its over the bar. All without a glove laid on anyone. We put loads of effort to get a point then straight away give up a point. Every piece of territory and score should be valued. This comes from the manager.

We were attacking at one stage and the move boke down near their goal. The defender carried the ball out without any one getting in his way. He lays it off and over the bar. These are basics. In the Tipp game today, A tipperary player was trying to come out of his defence and he was met with a limeruick player hassling him and then Limerick got a free from over carrying. This was in the pouring rain. I don't remember anyone doing that in Cork for the last years.

Yes its the players fault but the edict needs to come from the manager. No one gets out without being harassed and no falling asleep. Seems like so what, we will go again.

At the elite level, we are just as skilled as anyone in the country if not more so. Its the attitude, motivation and tactics are the difference makers. We had the wind second half but that seemed to be no help at all. It looked like we had no forwards at all when the ball went up. Now I can't see what tactics he was doing but it clearly is not working. This is why we need a plan b, c and D!

You would expect Cork to come out the next match ready for blood and hammer who ever we play. You would expect a lot of changes but with Kingston he will switch a couple of players and a few positional maybe and that will be it.

No one from Blackrock is a head scratcher. Again, I said he must know something that I don't. Now we clearly see we need new players. Before you say who, I am not the manager. He is meant to know all players. When the strike was on, we got a whole new panel and they were still fairly competitive. I couldn't believe that at the time. Even if the new players are not as good at least they will be trying and getting stuck in.

Before the next game, Kingston should know who is up for it. They should be bouncing off each other in training. I was going berserk watching it. I am sure everyone in Cork was too. Its the losing with a whimper bothers me. I don't mind losing but not fighting and tackling is unforgiveable. I played underage and a Brother in charge of the team would have you foaming at the mouth ready to get stuck in. It was like that D'Unbelievables sketch! Cork look way too passive. I was a really quiet fella but I knew that if I didn't get stuck in, I was gone. Once I pulled out of a challenge and I was taken off. Dropped next game. Coming on as sub I was hyped up and ready to go though a brick wall. Of course that was nothing like inter county but the principle is universal in any sport. I was top goal scorer and would be dropped. I would be livid. Found out later the Brother said I played better when I was angry as he thought I was too easy going! :pac: Thats a manager using his players wisely.

It looks like there are no leaders on the team. No one screaming at others to do better. Kingston needs to instill this or bring someone in who can. As Straight Talker says, Workrate and application.

My mother was on the phone complaining to me that it looked like they didn't care. It hurt me just hearing it but you would have to agree.

The only good thing is that we get a chance to put it right. Put some pride in the jersey. Workrate, desire, application should all be through the roof. Kingston has to get that in the players. If we don't see that then Kingston will have to be gone as soon as we are knocked out.

Asdfgh2020

Straight Talker wrote: »

Rosita wrote: »

Frank's goodbye present to the county, was the new redeveloped pairc. Of course we needed a more modern stadium. But the project went way over the budget. And that's the thing you see. To compete with the Tipps and Dublins of this world, requires serious financial resources being put towards, the preparation of the intercounty squads. But the amount of money that can be put towards the preparation of the intercounty squads, has been hampered by the debt incurred from the stadium redevelopment project.

Is it time for cork to fully swallow their pride and bring in an ‘outside’ manager.......have they ever had one...?

zetecescort

The White Feather wrote: »

The only good thing is that we get a chance to put it right. Put some pride in the jersey. Workrate, desire, application should all be through the roof. Kingston has to get that in the players. If we don't see that then Kingston will have to be gone as soon as we are knocked out.

If we don't see a massive improvement a number of underperforming players will have to go too. This I fear will be a long term project with many defeats along the way. There will be little chance of senior All Irelands without underage success imo.

thesultan

The talent in Cork is overstated. What have they won? Name an all star in waiting defender who stops his man scoring?
Could badly do with a few Jackie tyrells types?