Administrative Officer 2017 Campaign

Kamu

cleaner wrote: »

Hi Guys,

Best of luck to everyone who is applying. Just wondering are you just using the sample tests on the public jobs site as practice for this or are you using other sites to practice sample questions as well?

Hi Cleaner, I used the practice tests on Public Jobs and I used the practice test from the link that came in the booklet.

Kamu

The_Conductor wrote: »

Format was the same- however the actual ones were on an entirely different scale of difficulty- i.e. while the practice test gives you an idea of the manner in which to answer them- it doesn't prepare you in the least for the appalling difficulty level of the actual tests..........

If the pass mark is similar to the recent HEO- a little over 50% on the numeracy will get you through- however, they *are* negatively marked- so don't go on a guessing spree..........

I wonder why the difficulty is set so high compared to the practice tests?

piobhan

The_Conductor wrote: »

Format was the same- however the actual ones were on an entirely different scale of difficulty- i.e. while the practice test gives you an idea of the manner in which to answer them- it doesn't prepare you in the least for the appalling difficulty level of the actual tests..........

If the pass mark is similar to the recent HEO- a little over 50% on the numeracy will get you through- however, they *are* negatively marked- so don't go on a guessing spree..........

Are they 100% negatively marked? I didn’t see that anywhere in the information etc? I could have missed it.....?

cleaner

Cheers for that Kamu

The_Conductor

Kamu wrote: »

I wonder why the difficulty is set so high compared to the practice tests?

The practice tests- are only to get you used to the format- not the difficulty (of which time itself is top of the list) of the main test.

As for negative marking- they refuse to say whether they are negatively marked or not- however, recently the advice has been to 'work fast but diligently, and do not wildly guess guess answers even towards the end of the test- as it may negatively effect your standing' (this was from a different recent test).

If you look at various threads in this forum- you will see that numerous people have specifically asked whether its negatively marked or not- but no-one got a definitive 'yes' or 'no' answer.

kbr19

Does anyone know if the numerical assessment is taken into account for determining the order of merit? Or does it just need to be passed?

The_Conductor

kbr19 wrote: »

Does anyone know if the numerical assessment is taken into account for determining the order of merit? Or does it just need to be passed?

It just has to be passed- however, they don't decide on what the pass mark is- until after they tally the marks for the verbal reasoning and the job skills tests- i.e. its used as a yardstick to bring X number through to stage 2.

Stage 2 (verification stage)- you have to score within 12.5% of your test scores on stage 1- in all 3 exams- otherwise you're out (there is a presumption of cheating in the stage 1 unsupervised exam)- and you still have to pass all 3- even after the 12.5%- i.e. if you're within tolerances, but fail the numeracy- you're still out.

So- no- its not counted- your score is a composite of the other 2 tests- but you still have to pass it.

This is seen as an equality measure- as guys tend to score better on numeracy- i.e. there would be an unfair proportion of highly placed males if numeracy were counted- whereas females tend to score better on the verbal reasoning (and both genders are in the same ball park on work skills).

There is talk of changing this policy- as in the lower grades (particularly CO and EO) there is an abnormal female representation (in some recruitment drives at lower grades- over 80% of successful candidates are female). It also means there is some resentment in internal promotion drives- as equality measures mean females are given additional assistance to try and increase their representation at higher grades- to mirror their prevalence at lower grades. However- when recruitment is massaged to encourage one gender at recruitment stage- over the other gender- you're always going to a messy situation up the line.......

Jimbob1977

Best of luck to all candidates.

The numeric test was a classic "game of two halves". Solid start, tough ending.

Let's cross our collective fingers and toes. Best wishes.

wos

The_Conductor wrote: »

This is seen as an equality measure- as guys tend to score better on numeracy- i.e. there would be an unfair proportion of highly placed males if numeracy were counted- whereas females tend to score better on the verbal reasoning (and both genders are in the same ball park on work skills).

If the numeracy score is discounted, my read on this is that there is currently an inequality measure in place, where females are favoured. Am I understanding this correctly?

bronzesheep

The_Conductor wrote: »

This is seen as an equality measure- as guys tend to score better on numeracy- i.e. there would be an unfair proportion of highly placed males if numeracy were counted- whereas females tend to score better on the verbal reasoning (and both genders are in the same ball park on work skills).

Is this actually true, as I've never seen an official statement about this, only spoken about in these threads by various people over different competitions. Is there a link to PAS where they explain this anywhere?

It makes absolutely no sense to me. By it's own reasoning it's skewing results to favour one gender over another, so creating discrimination, and that's if you consider the original assumption to be true. Being female with strong numeracy skills (and I'm not alone!!), I find it frustrating to have my good numerical results discarded every competition I enter and then inevitably be told by someone it's to 'help' me as I'm female. Great, thanks, if the 'help' stopped I might have a fairer shot at these competitions. Doesn't add up, excuse the pun!

Chaos Black

I've heard the same and HR in my department were talking about pushing greater gender equality at the higher grades. I haven't heard an official line on the reasoning behind the scoring for campaigns.

In fairness, i'd hazard a guess, in the majority of departments, your verbal reasoning is put to use everyday, where the numerical test could nearly be traded in for a practical test on your working knowledge of Excel and formulas/functions.

Numeracy is important though if it is an indicator of logical reasoning as the service could use all the logical thinking that it can get :P

job seeker

I'm after practising the tests online. I'll have a go at them but maths wouldn't be my strong point at all!

Can you use a calculator?

gline

job seeker wrote: »

Can you use a calculator?

Yes, it says you can use paper and a calculator, before you take the test.

job seeker

gline wrote: »

Yes, it says you can use paper and a calculator, before you take the test.

Perfect thanks!

lucat

Well, that numerical one was a disaster! I'd say I guessed about half. I just didn't have time to calculate. Such a pity they place such an emphasis on time, at the expense of insight into the candidate's real numerical literacy (in my opinion).

I was wondering where it states that Numerical isn't counted in the final score? I can't seem to find it.

Btw, I doubt very much that it would be negative marking. While I suppose they could have started doing that for the first time ever (as far as I know) they would most likely have told us in advance.- I had that for a different type of test at a stage 3 once but we were told in advance.

Anyway, onwards and upwards

Australia33

They were impossible!

I felt they were very different to the practice tests. Didn't get either numerical or verbal finished. Very disappointed and disillusioned now!


When are the results out?

Chaos Black

Don't worry about it, you're not expected to complete the entire test. Part of it is how you deal with pressure (a time constraint) and if you have the awareness to know this and move on from sticky questions that are taking too long rather then panicking.

Claireyy

Completely forgot about these tests so had to rush them there and really struggled to do either of them. I would consider myself to be quite an intelligent person but I found both tests extremely difficult. I previously applied for this campaign in 2014 and failed the verbal despite having a degree in Journalism(ha!). From what I can remember, these ones were far more difficult, not holding out any hope at all.

job seeker

Chaos Black wrote: »

Don't worry about it, you're not expected to complete the entire test. Part of it is how you deal with pressure (a time constraint) and if you have the awareness to know this and move on from sticky questions that are taking too long rather then panicking.

I kinda assumed that you had to get it finished? As I thought you had to beat a certain score?

HairyCabbage

The_Conductor wrote: »

It just has to be passed- however, they don't decide on what the pass mark is- until after they tally the marks for the verbal reasoning and the job skills tests- i.e. its used as a yardstick to bring X number through to stage 2.

Stage 2 (verification stage)- you have to score within 12.5% of your test scores on stage 1- in all 3 exams- otherwise you're out (there is a presumption of cheating in the stage 1 unsupervised exam)- and you still have to pass all 3- even after the 12.5%- i.e. if you're within tolerances, but fail the numeracy- you're still out.

So- no- its not counted- your score is a composite of the other 2 tests- but you still have to pass it.

This is seen as an equality measure- as guys tend to score better on numeracy- i.e. there would be an unfair proportion of highly placed males if numeracy were counted- whereas females tend to score better on the verbal reasoning (and both genders are in the same ball park on work skills).

There is talk of changing this policy- as in the lower grades (particularly CO and EO) there is an abnormal female representation (in some recruitment drives at lower grades- over 80% of successful candidates are female). It also means there is some resentment in internal promotion drives- as equality measures mean females are given additional assistance to try and increase their representation at higher grades- to mirror their prevalence at lower grades. However- when recruitment is massaged to encourage one gender at recruitment stage- over the other gender- you're always going to a messy situation up the line.......

As a woman, I hate this! Maths has always been my strong point and I end up placing significantly lower in my assessments for public jobs because it is not counted. Also, I have always widely regarded that stereotype to be a myth as I've never seen any evidence of it in my personal life and now studies are, finally coming out contradicting this commonly held belief. I believe that there are other factors at play as to why more men work in mathematical fields than women. I also noticed that when I was in secondary school (an all girls school) there didn't appear to be too much pressure to be good at maths and saying that you just didn't 'get' maths seemed far more acceptable than if you were talking about another school subject. Also, as a point of interest, I did my BSc in maths and approximately 60% of my class were female. I believe that people have their varying strengths and weaknesses and if women have better verbal skills will it not all balance out and be fair?

BobCat123

I did the tests earlier today...to those who have also completed them,did ye get a confirmation email to say your tests were submitted? Thanks

Jimbob1977

BobCat123 wrote: »

I did the tests earlier today...to those who have also completed them,did ye get a confirmation email to say your tests were submitted? Thanks

No confirmation email for me. Just green ticks on the test portal

Asus X540L

Jaysus the last half of the maths were so wtf I think they were broken.
I've a degree in maths and a post grad in statistics and hadn't a clue. There seemed to be information missing. Does the government know who they're out sourcing to?

I've also done the maths test live in Dublin for statistician and it was nothing like this.

job seeker

I am after completing scenarios there? Not sure where everyone else is getting the Maths from? Extremely

EDIT: Found them!

lucat

Asus X540L wrote: »

Jaysus the last half of the maths were so wtf I think they were broken.
I've a degree in maths and a post grad in statistics and hadn't a clue. There seemed to be information missing. Does the government know who they're out sourcing to?

I've also done the maths test live in Dublin for statistician and it was nothing like this.

Yeah that’s what I was thinking for a few of them too. I wanted to select “cannot say” but that wasn’t an option.

bodun

Yea the numerical was tough alright. Didn't get them all finished. They were very different to what was in the practice tests. On another note, did anyone find them hard to read, I thought the fonts used were poor. Maybe that's part of the test!

PhoenixParker

Is there any chance the numerical is one of those tests where if you get the questions right it selects the next question from the next difficulty level up? If you get it wrong it stays the same or drops down in difficulty.

Not sure what they're called but some of the American post grad university entry tests are like that. It would mean they're not negatively marked but also that you should never randomly guess.

I love maths, usually I enjoy tests like that one, I've several maths heavy degrees, but maybe it's because I'm rusty but that was the most difficult test I've done.

MuffinTop86

Well if that’s the cast then my guesses were very accurate because I felt like I was reading Dutch for the numerical one. It’s comforting to know that maths and stats people were also baffled.

The_Conductor

Asus X540L wrote: »

Jaysus the last half of the maths were so wtf I think they were broken.
I've a degree in maths and a post grad in statistics and hadn't a clue. There seemed to be information missing. Does the government know who they're out sourcing to?

I've also done the maths test live in Dublin for statistician and it was nothing like this.

Ditto- to all of that- I've a masters in applied maths- and have worked in the CSO- and I didn't get it finished.........

Don't worry- we're all in the same boat.

kg703

I thought the maths questions themselves were fine but I only got 13/18 done

Hopefully they were at least right!