Kerry GAA discussion thread #2

Poor_old_gill

siblers wrote: »

I'd give Keane another full season at least. He didn't do himself any favours today but needs more time. If its the same carry on next season then would probably be time for him to go

Nah, he's in over his head.
Poor team selection, terrible tactics and completely unable to have any effect within game, be it with substitutions or tactical changes.

We've just lost, and deserved to lose, to a Division 3 team.
I'd have no faith in him staying on for another season

Same As

wonga77 wrote: »

Ive nothing to add that has been said really. Surprisingly defensive and Keane must take a share of the blame. No leadership whatsoever around the middle when things got tough, oh how we needed a Declan Sullivan type player to get on the ball and kill the game. Moran doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes at all. I don't think I've ever seen Cliffrd take as many wrong options as he did either. Its a tough defeat but will stand to the younger lads, i get the feeling they took their eye off the ball here

This, or dare I say it, a Ciaran Kilkenny.

siblers

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Nah, he's in over his head.
Poor team selection, terrible tactics and completely unable to have any effect within game, be it with substitutions or tactical changes.

We've just lost, and deserved to lose, to a Division 3 team.
I'd have no faith in him staying on for another season

You'd hope he'll learn from this. I'm very disappointed by Keane overall, he's a lot more negative than I would expect but still think he deserves another go.

I doubt the GAA board will get rid of him anyway considering how much time Fitzmaurice got

siblers

Same As wrote: »

This, or dare I say it, a Ciaran Kilkenny.

We needed a Seamus Moynihan or Dara O'Se!

Badly need a leader but don't see any coming through

jimmytwotimes 2013

siblers wrote: »

Sean O'Shea probably would. Killin Spillane and Daea Moynihan probably would in a year or two.

IMO Kerry's three elite players are Clifford, O'Shea and Tom Sullivan

Moynihan will prob be an impact sub and Spillane will hopefully work up to being a starting corner forward (shud have started today, unless injured)

As regards standards, I wouldn't so much ask how many wud start for Dublin as that's an unfair ask on most players in the country.

If we were to combine the Kerry 00's team with the current crop, I'd say 3/4 of current team wud be on it.

Plenty work to do on the current team to say they shud be winning all-irelands.

dobman88

Jesus lads, get rid of Keane and replace him with who? It was a bad day at the office where many players didnt turn up. I'm not buying the conditions excuse as it was the same for both sides. Kerry were just shiìte today.

Keane is a good manager with a good relationship with.players who.like playing for him, especially the younger lads.

Let's not over react here by calling for his head after 1 bad performance. Christ

Poor_old_gill

siblers wrote: »

You'd hope he'll learn from this. I'm very disappointed by Keane overall, he's a lot more negative than I would expect but still think he deserves another go.

I doubt the GAA board will get rid of him anyway considering how much time Fitzmaurice got

He had more than 90 minutes to learn today and he still looked clueless.
Nah, time up in my opinion.

Picked the wrong team
The wrong bench
The wrong tactics
Didnt show any ability to make changes within game
Tommy being there shows that he wasnt fully picking players on club championship form because by the end of the season Tommy was lucky to be getting in the KOR team.

Keane has just presided over the biggest shambles Kerry have produced in more than 15 years

Poor_old_gill

dobman88 wrote: »

Jesus lads, get rid of Keane and replace him with who? It was a bad day at the office where many players didnt turn up. I'm not buying the conditions excuse as it was the same for both sides. Kerry were just shiìte today.

Keane is a good manager with a good relationship with.players who.like playing for him, especially the younger lads.

Let's not over react here by calling for his head after 1 bad performance. Christ

It's a results and/or performance based game - he has just resided over our worst of both in over 15 years.

Got everything wrong today from selection, to the bench, to the tactics - a f*ck up of monumental proportions.

His relationship with the players shouldnt really matter too much as it didnt spur anything out of them today

ShamoBuc

What a game. What a result. It's true Keane will be under pressure but I reckon he will get another year. Conditions made it hard for both teams but his tactics today were off from the start. Realistically, Tommy could have caught the last ball, Kerry would have won by a point, and ye would have a Munster final to look forward to in 2 weeks.
There were so many mistakes throughout the game, from both sides. Moran got a lot of ball, a black card and kicked a few poor kicks near the end - he literally did it all. But I wouldn't be too harsh on him as he must have been shattered by the end.

Kerry are the closest team in ability to Dublin, losing today won't change that. You would imagine a much hungrier Kerry will return next year.

We've lost many a game we could've won against ye, so I'm sure ye wont begrudge us todays win too much.

Kingdom

This is some twelve 12 months. We've gone from being in control of our destiny in the All-Ireland final, and throwing it away, and then to be in control of our own destiny in the Munster semi-final (in normal and extra time) and throwing it away. The old saying is definitely applicable, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me....fool me thrice?

There's a few trains of thought on this year's All-Ireland:
1 - it's arguable whether the football championship should be played at all, so was prepared to write off the season;
2 - it's a strange championship in the winter with no safety net, so anything could happen:
a- pull the trigger and attack;
b - safe and steady will win the day.

at some point in the morning, Peter Keane decided to go for option 2b. He went for safe and steady. Unfortunately safe and steady didn't happen, as too many players - mainstays - didn't perform: Gavin White, Peter Crowley, Diarmuid O'Connor, David Moran, Tom O'Sullivan. Clifford too, it has to be said, had a poor day (by his standards) despite the incredible point he scored.

Paul Murphy was good, as always, and of the starting 15 he's probably the only one who could consider himself in the plus column.
The Ronan buckley call didn't work; the Begley call didn't work; the Moynihan call didn't work;I don't see it with Gavin White myself. He's brittle, and constantly finds himself in trouble.

Tony Brosnan got hauled...for what I'm not sure, but I thought it was premature. He's a natural scorer, but getting the ball to him was problematic. The subs were hit and miss. Killian Spillane was superb. Jack Sherwood I thought played superbly when he came on.

On the other hand, Stephen O'Brien didn't get going. Jack Barry didn't get into the game at all, and as for Tommy Walsh...wtf was that about? It didn't work, and how someone thought he should end up being the man on Mark Keane - on the edge of the box....dear god.

There are players considered first-choice in that team, that need questions asked of them now, none other than Shane Ryan. He literally had f'all to do all game, and that effort showed poor concentration or poor ability, and in clutch moments, both are equally unforgiveable. There's a reason we look susceptible under a high-ball - it's because we've sacrificed strength and size between the sticks for accuracy off the tee.

Coming back to the "Peter Keane out!" suggestions. That's bull****, quite simply, but he's under serious pressure now after today. Equally though, this absolutely could be one of those days when the perfect ****-storm conspires against you. Clifford is the perfect example of this. But this sitting in nonsense once we got on top...that's the hardest to understand. because as good as it is for Cork, they didn't play outstanding, they didn't shoot the lights out, and there is just as much chance that Tipp take them in 2 weeks.

keane2097

Fair play to Cork, as I said elsewhere football is better craic when they are competitive.

dobman88

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

It's a results and/or performance based game - he has just resided over our worst of both in over 15 years.

Got everything wrong today from selection, to the bench, to the tactics - a f*ck up of monumental proportions.

His relationship with the players shouldnt really matter too much as it didnt spur anything out of them today

He has, I cant dispute that.

Not only him, the entire team, every man who played a part today got it wrong. It was just a terrible.day at the office that is a complete outlier.

Fair enough. I guess we will agree to disagree on this one.

Kingdom

Just one last thing about Clifford (and in a sense about Ger Canning too )....the shot that he took clearly going for goal where an easy point was on, shows the kind of bat**** crazy genius he is, for

a) thinking of it,
b) trying it
c) being half an inch away from scoring one of the best goals ever.

The fella is an absolute genius.
And Ger Canning is a wreck-the-head:
"He looks as if he can't believe he's put it wide!"
"He's added vision to his game!"
"He's getting better at creating chances for team-mates"

Also, keep the knock-out championship. The Cork celebrations at the end said it all. Qualifiers need to be gone.

Shane12

Very similar to the game in Ennis last year played in a deluge. The only difference is we didn't sit off as much, Clare could have taken us. If I am not mistaken wasn't David Moran red carded.

I am a fan of Moran but he is prone to severe lapses in concentration. We gave Cork too much respect they don't really have forwards. But we fouled them a lot! in scorable positions.

Poor_old_gill

Kingdom wrote: »

This is some twelve 12 months. We've gone from being in control of our destiny in the All-Ireland final, and throwing it away, and then to be in control of our own destiny in the Munster semi-final (in normal and extra time) and throwing it away. The old saying is definitely applicable, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me....fool me thrice?

There's a few trains of thought on this year's All-Ireland:
1 - it's arguable whether the football championship should be played at all, so was prepared to write off the season;
2 - it's a strange championship in the winter with no safety net, so anything could happen:
a- pull the trigger and attack;
b - safe and steady will win the day.

at some point in the morning, Peter Keane decided to go for option 2b. He went for safe and steady. Unfortunately safe and steady didn't happen, as too many players - mainstays - didn't perform: Gavin White, Peter Crowley, Diarmuid O'Connor, David Moran, Tom O'Sullivan. Clifford too, it has to be said, had a poor day (by his standards) despite the incredible point he scored.

Paul Murphy was good, as always, and of the starting 15 he's probably the only one who could consider himself in the plus column.
The Ronan buckley call didn't work; the Begley call didn't work; the Moynihan call didn't work;I don't see it with Gavin White myself. He's brittle, and constantly finds himself in trouble.

Tony Brosnan got hauled...for what I'm not sure, but I thought it was premature. He's a natural scorer, but getting the ball to him was problematic. The subs were hit and miss. Killian Spillane was superb. Jack Sherwood I thought played superbly when he came on.

On the other hand, Stephen O'Brien didn't get going. Jack Barry didn't get into the game at all, and as for Tommy Walsh...wtf was that about? It didn't work, and how someone thought he should end up being the man on Mark Keane - on the edge of the box....dear god.

There are players considered first-choice in that team, that need questions asked of them now, none other than Shane Ryan. He literally had f'all to do all game, and that effort showed poor concentration or poor ability, and in clutch moments, both are equally unforgiveable. There's a reason we look susceptible under a high-ball - it's because we've sacrificed strength and size between the sticks for accuracy off the tee.

Coming back to the "Peter Keane out!" suggestions. That's bull****, quite simply, but he's under serious pressure now after today. Equally though, this absolutely could be one of those days when the perfect ****-storm conspires against you. Clifford is the perfect example of this. But this sitting in nonsense once we got on top...that's the hardest to understand. because as good as it is for Cork, they didn't play outstanding, they didn't shoot the lights out, and there is just as much chance that Tipp take them in 2 weeks.

It's not bull****.
That was embarassing today and we are a f*ckin laughing stock after it.
The fact that you yourself admit that a very average Cork team didnt even have to play well is telling enough.

If you're a manager who can't get the team selection right, doesn't pick enough scoring options on his bench & gets his tactics completely and consistently wrong for 90+ minutes then you're not a very good manager.

It would be utter stupidity to continue with him

lawred2

Kingdom wrote: »

Just one last thing about Clifford (and in a sense about Ger Canning too )....the shot that he took clearly going for goal where an easy point was on, shows the kind of bat**** crazy genius he is, for

a) thinking of it,
b) trying it
c) being half an inch away from scoring one of the best goals ever.

The fella is an absolute genius.
And Ger Canning is a wreck-the-head:
"He looks as if he can't believe he's put it wide!"
"He's added vision to his game!"
"He's getting better at creating chances for team-mates"

Also, keep the knock-out championship. The Cork celebrations at the end said it all. Qualifiers need to be gone.

I'd like groups of four/five followed by knockouts to the end..

SecretsOfEarth

SecretsOfEarth wrote: »

While David Moran is not completely to blame for today's loss, it is unfair to dismiss anyone criticising. He has done this repeatedly in clutch moments - stupid kicks, running into the tackle and general brain-dead decision making.

I appreciate his spectacular catches and his leadership capabilities over the years, but if he can't see by now that he should not be shooting, then it's time to hang up the boots.

Does that not come down to Keane too?

Surely someone has to sit down with Moran and tell him to stop, persuade him, threaten him, whatever it takes. That it hasn't happened to date seems to be an oversight or inattention to detail. Is getting rid of a player's bad habits not part of Keane's job?

almostover

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Nah, he's in over his head.
Poor team selection, terrible tactics and completely unable to have any effect within game, be it with substitutions or tactical changes.

We've just lost, and deserved to lose, to a Division 3 team.
I'd have no faith in him staying on for another season

Eaten bread is soon forgotten. He was minutes from leading a Kerry team stopping the 5 in a row last September against probably the greatest football team ever.

The_Honeybadger

Premature to be talking about ousting Keane in my opinion. He is just after winning the league and came very close to winning the All Ireland last year.

That said, today was an absolutely epic failure on every level. This Cork team is quite limited and Kerry made it too easy for them. Kerry got their tactics wrong and couldn’t make any meaningful adjustments. In fairness to Keane, many of his players simply failed to execute, the game was littered with uncharacteristic errors and misses on the field. You can’t really blame Keane for that.

almostover

dobman88 wrote: »

Its definitely their all Ireland. They might limp past Tipp but will be beaten out the gate against whoever they play after that.

Hold on a sec, I've a bit of sugar here to sweeten those sour grapes. Or is Colm O'Rourke on boards?

Poor_old_gill

almostover wrote: »

Eaten bread is soon forgotten. He was minutes from leading a Kerry team stopping the 5 in a row last September against probably the greatest football team ever.

We were a man up for more than a half and a point up in injury time & we couldnt close it out.
Having only Lyne to come off the bench when we needed an additional scoring threat was shambolic.

Eaten bread? We didnt eat last year my friend, we nearly did and nearly means f*ckall

keane2097

almostover wrote: »

Eaten bread is soon forgotten. He was minutes from leading a Kerry team stopping the 5 in a row last September against probably the greatest football team ever.

Nearly stopping the five in a row wasn't much bread to be filling up on.

dobman88

almostover wrote: »

Hold on a sec, I've a bit of sugar here to sweeten those sour grapes. Or is Colm O'Rourke on boards?

No sour grapes at all. Quite the opposite, I've nothing but respect for cork after that performance. They put it up to Kerry, got in their faces and stayed in the game when they needed to. I thought they'd do it in normal time tbh and completely deserved it.

But the players celebrations at the end tells you that's their all Ireland, lets not pretend they have a genuine chance of winning Sam. If you feel different, that's fair enough.

Poor_old_gill

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

Premature to be talking about ousting Keane in my opinion. He is just after winning the league and came very close to winning the All Ireland last year.

That said, today was an absolutely epic failure on every level. This Cork team is quite limited and Kerry made it too easy for them. Kerry got their tactics wrong and couldn’t make any meaningful adjustments. In fairness to Keane, many of his players simply failed to execute, the game was littered with uncharacteristic errors and misses on the field. You can’t really blame Keane for that.

You can blame him for the poor team selection
You can blame him for the inadequate bench
You can blame him for the utterly woeful tactics
You can blame for the complete inability to change the direction which the game was going in.

In conclusion, you could blame him for an inability to get any facet of team management correct

keane2097

I don't think Cork are too bad actually. Decent forward line, good at winning possession around the middle and loads of pace and endeavor in the backs. They've been crying out for some decent organisation for years, maybe they're starting to get it together. It's beyond belief that they wouldn't have 20 footballers in the county as good as anywhere else.

The_Honeybadger

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

You can blame him for the poor team selection
You can blame him for the inadequate bench
You can blame him for the utterly woeful tactics
You can blame for the complete inability to change the direction which the game was going in.

In conclusion, you could blame him for an inability to get any facet of team management correct

Yes I acknowledged that Keane and his back room team had a total meltdown today.

That said, I think there is plenty of blame to go around and some of the players need to have a good look at themselves as well. There is only so much a coach can do, there is no excuse for missing tap over frees and giving the ball to the opposition needlessly in clutch situations.

almostover

dobman88 wrote: »

No sour grapes at all. Quite the opposite, I've nothing but respect for cork after that performance. They put it up to Kerry, got in their faces and stayed in the game when they needed to. I thought they'd do it in normal time tbh and completely deserved it.

But the players celebrations at the end tells you that's their all Ireland, lets not pretend they have a genuine chance of winning Sam. If you feel different, that's fair enough.

You're probably correct to an extent. But the attitude shown towards Cork all week by the media seemed to rub off on Kerry. Rule no.1 of sport, always respect the abilities of your opponent. Why shouldn't Cork have high aspirations now, we beat the main challenger to Dublin. Having said that, as a beleaguered Cork football supporter I'll been nervous about Tipp doing one on us in 2 weeks!

siblers

Unless Moran was explicitly told to hoof the ball down the pitch then I don't think you can blame Keane for that. I Think those mistakes can't be coached out of Moran at this stage. It's ingrained in his game

siblers

almostover wrote: »

You're probably correct to an extent. But the attitude shown towards Cork all week by the media seemed to rub off on Kerry. Rule no.1 of sport, always respect the abilities of your opponent. Why shouldn't Cork have high aspirations now, we beat the main challenger to Dublin. Having said that, as a beleaguered Cork football supporter I'll been nervous about Tipp doing one on us in 2 weeks!

Thought it was very naive the way the media claimed Kerry would brush Cork aside. The final last year was quite close and Cork had vastly improved since then.

dobman88

almostover wrote: »

You're probably correct to an extent. But the attitude shown towards Cork all week by the media seemed to rub off on Kerry. Rule no.1 of sport, always respect the abilities of your opponent. Why shouldn't Cork have high aspirations now, we beat the main challenger to Dublin. Having said that, as a beleaguered Cork football supporter I'll been nervous about Tipp doing one on us in 2 weeks!

I'm.not going to argue the point.

Best of luck in the final, I genuinely hope they win Munster at least now. After that, anything is possible.