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Footballer of the Year

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    #122
    MayoAreMagic
    Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    kilns wrote: »
    As a Dubs fan, Andy Moran for carrying a whole team on his shoulders should get it. Without him Mayo would have been no where near the final. If her retires they wont be back in a final for a long time

    Deserves it for being the best player this year.

    As for picking out one player, where would Dublin be without cluxton? Donegal without murphy? Kerry without Donaghy? Tyrone without Cavanagh? That applies for everyone.


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    #123
    Martina1991
    Registered Users Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭Martina1991


    kilns wrote: »
    As a Dubs fan, Andy Moran for carrying a whole team on his shoulders should get it.  Without him Mayo would have been no where near the final.  If her retires they wont be back in a final for a long time

    I don't agree. Andy had a stellar year but Mayo got to the final last year and Andy didn't stand out then.

    I don't think he'll retire but when he does he can be replaced. Jason Doherty has had a great year. Another year and young Conor Loftus will be pushing for a place too. Diarmuid O'Connor is still improving. Mayo aren't done yet.


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    #124
    MayoAreMagic
    Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    brocbrocach wrote: »
    I'd argue Kerry did the same or even better, to the extent that Cluxton cracked and put 2 or 3 over sidelines etc. It's not a player failing though, it's a sytem failure.
    Dublin's mistake in this final was that they thought Fenton would be able to compete with Parsons and O'Shea in fielding. McCarthy had a great game in all facets but Fenton has had a bad year and very poor final.

    The thing with mayo was a lot more sustained. Like you could argue that cluxton was off when he was hitting them out over the sideline and side-footing them to Kerry players - at the time it was labelled a cluxton meltdown, which tells it's own story. Mayo seemed to be getting to them, even when he was kicking them well, which would indicate a cracking of the kickout itself, rather than the man making mistakes.

    Re fenton, there was far more to it than that. Every time the ball was going long, mayo had 3-4 guys closing on the target on the ground, and another guy jumping with him. Also, McCarthy was beaten on kickouts just as much as fenton in the first half, so it cant be all fenton's fault...


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    #125
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    The thing with mayo was a lot more sustained. Like you could argue that cluxton was off when he was hitting them out over the sideline and side-footing them to Kerry players - at the time it was labelled a cluxton meltdown, which tells it's own story. Mayo seemed to be getting to them, even when he was kicking them well, which would indicate a cracking of the kickout itself, rather than the man making mistakes.

    Re fenton, there was far more to it than that. Every time the ball was going long, mayo had 3-4 guys closing on the target on the ground, and another guy jumping with him. Also, McCarthy was beaten on kickouts just as much as fenton in the first half, so it cant be all fenton's fault...

    Mayo did to Dublin exactly what Dublin had been doing to teams all year. I have no clue what Dublin's plan was

    It was very impressive. Thought Parsons in particular had a great game


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    #126
    brocbrocach
    Registered Users Posts: 890 ✭✭✭brocbrocach


    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    The thing with mayo was a lot more sustained. Like you could argue that cluxton was off when he was hitting them out over the sideline and side-footing them to Kerry players - at the time it was labelled a cluxton meltdown, which tells it's own story. Mayo seemed to be getting to them, even when he was kicking them well, which would indicate a cracking of the kickout itself, rather than the man making mistakes.

    Re fenton, there was far more to it than that. Every time the ball was going long, mayo had 3-4 guys closing on the target on the ground, and another guy jumping with him. Also, McCarthy was beaten on kickouts just as much as fenton in the first half, so it cant be all fenton's fault...

    I think he just went old-fashioned when Mayo pressed up, thinking Fenton would be able for the lads. Most of them were broke but Dublin didn't really have anyone like McLoughlin/Dooher/Galvin to win that dirty ball. The Mayo half-back and half-forward lines thrive on that.
    It's true that McCarthy didn't win them in the first half but he wasn't there as the "jumping midfielder", which would be Fenton's role.


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    #127
    brocbrocach
    Registered Users Posts: 890 ✭✭✭brocbrocach


    Yep Parsons was brilliant, should be an allstar


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    #128
    kilns
    Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    kilns wrote: »
    As a Dubs fan, Andy Moran for carrying a whole team on his shoulders should get it.  Without him Mayo would have been no where near the final.  If her retires they wont be back in a final for a long time

    Deserves it for being the best player this year.

    As for picking out one player, where would Dublin be without cluxton? Donegal without murphy? Kerry without Donaghy? Tyrone without Cavanagh? That applies for everyone.
    Dublin would cope as they are a strong unit, Mayo would not cope without Moran.  None of their other forwards are up to his standard


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    #129
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,223 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    11/11, because he had to go short, due to his long kicks being so poor in the first half. Decent save alright, although the finish was disappointing. He was really bad in the first half, but he readjusted, still, to say he ahd a good game is a bit much

    Clarke miscued his last kick, fair enough. McCarthy done well to get under the other one though. He read the run. His kickouts in general were superior to cluxtons on the whole. The man deserves great credit for that, considering last year.

    One thing I will say, the mayo management deserve serious credit - they found a way to turn cluxtons kickouts on their head. Nobody has managed this before - ever. Jim McGuinness and these guys would want to remember that before they start chirping in the paper...

    Amazing post. How you can agree that Cluxton went 11/11 in the second half but then say that the Mayo management turned Cluxton's kickouts on their head!!! If the Mayo management strategy was so good, how come Cluxton went 11/11 and Dublin won? It is bizarre to suggest Mayo won that battle.

    Yes, Mayo came out with a strategy to stop Cluxton's kickouts and it had some success in the first half, he lost six kickouts (just six)!! In the second half, Cluxton responded and boy did he respond, with a perfect 11/11. Dublin won the second half by two points.

    It was sad to see Clarke's brainfreeze at the end, his last two kickouts cost Mayo the game just as O'Connor's missed free cost them a win. As someone else said, it is the clutch kicks that count. Cluxton has made those clutch kicks time and again since 2011 (especially in 2011 when his kick won the All-Ireland). To me, that ability to deliver under real pressure, to make history, is what sets Cluxton (and Rock) apart and was the difference last Sunday. In every other facet of play - tackling, passing, cynical challenges, point-taking, goalkeeping, etc. - Mayo matched Dublin but in the end as I said before the semi-final (you can look up the post), you always expect Clarke to misplace a vital kick-out or O'Connor to miss a vital free, and so it turned out on Sunday.


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    #130
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,223 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    The thing with mayo was a lot more sustained. Like you could argue that cluxton was off when he was hitting them out over the sideline and side-footing them to Kerry players - at the time it was labelled a cluxton meltdown, which tells it's own story. Mayo seemed to be getting to them, even when he was kicking them well, which would indicate a cracking of the kickout itself, rather than the man making mistakes.

    Re fenton, there was far more to it than that. Every time the ball was going long, mayo had 3-4 guys closing on the target on the ground, and another guy jumping with him. Also, McCarthy was beaten on kickouts just as much as fenton in the first half, so it cant be all fenton's fault...


    Kerry scored 1-2 without reply or something like that from the pressure on Cluxton's kickouts over a short period, Mayo never managed that on Sunday. Yes, Mayo had a system prepared, but it only had them breaking even in the first half as evidence by a one-point lead. By the second half, a tactical adjustment and a change in personnel to implement the tactical adjustment meant that Mayo never got near another Cluxton kickout. A tribute both to Gavin and his players that they could so comprehensively react to Mayo's tactics during the match and turn the game completely on its head.


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    #131
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,223 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    brocbrocach wrote: »
    I think he just went old-fashioned when Mayo pressed up, thinking Fenton would be able for the lads. Most of them were broke but Dublin didn't really have anyone like McLoughlin/Dooher/Galvin to win that dirty ball. The Mayo half-back and half-forward lines thrive on that.
    It's true that McCarthy didn't win them in the first half but he wasn't there as the "jumping midfielder", which would be Fenton's role.


    I think that the O'Gara selection was linked to Cluxton's decision to go long. Early high ball to O'Gara from midfield to feed runners like Mannion and O'Callaghan was the idea. Once the change to going short, they wanted McMenamin for his ability to run at defences, hence the change at half-time. The tactical flexibility displayed by Dublin is awesome.


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    #132
    BandMember
    Registered Users Posts: 1,709 ✭✭✭BandMember


    Andy Moran.

    Any other result is an absolute joke.

    With 70 minutes on the clock, Chris Barrett had the MOTM award in his back pocket but because Dublin win the match, James McCarthy is the MOTM and suddenly a candidate for POTY?? Sorry, but that's just farcical!


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    #133
    Shurimgreat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭Shurimgreat


    blanch152 wrote: »
    I think that the O'Gara selection was linked to Cluxton's decision to go long. Early high ball to O'Gara from midfield to feed runners like Mannion and O'Callaghan was the idea. Once the change to going short, they wanted McMenamin for his ability to run at defences, hence the change at half-time. The tactical flexibility displayed by Dublin is awesome.

    Bullsh*t.

    Starting O'Gara was a massive mistake and threw their entire game plan into disarray. McManamon came on far earlier than normally expected and had minimal impact.

    Its laughable the way posters like you dress up Dublin mistakes. Gavin made a b*lls of the starting selection by including O'Gara and it almost cost Dublin an AI. The guy is human afterall and not the robot people think he is.


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    #134
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,182 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    McManamon came on far earlier than normally expected and had minimal impact.

    Absolutely baffled.


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    #135
    Shurimgreat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭Shurimgreat


    Buer wrote: »
    Absolutely baffled.

    By what exactly?

    Do you agree starting O'Gara was a disaster and threw the Dublin game plan into disarray?

    How anyone can portray that as tactically awesome is beyond me.

    If one or two things went Mayo's way and they won, Gavin would be criticised for the O'Gara move. A kick of the ball the other way and he's a genius.

    It doesn't work that way.


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    #136
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,223 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    Bullsh*t.

    Starting O'Gara was a massive mistake and threw their entire game plan into disarray. McManamon came on far earlier than normally expected and had minimal impact.

    Its laughable the way posters like you dress up Dublin mistakes. Gavin made a b*lls of the starting selection by including O'Gara and it almost cost Dublin an AI. The guy is human afterall and not the robot people think he is.

    Nobody disputes that the Dublin starting selection didn't work because Mayo's set-up negated it (to the extent that Mayo just had a one-point lead at half-time).

    What we are saying is that Gavin and the Dublin players (unlike say Tyrone in the semi-final) were flexible enough both in terms of tactics and personnel to adjust to what had happened, make the necessary changes, and go on to win the game.


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    #137
    Stoner
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 10,952 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stoner


    Anyway footballer of the year.

    This thread has killed it for me at this stage.


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    #138
    Shurimgreat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭Shurimgreat


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Nobody disputes that the Dublin starting selection didn't work because Mayo's set-up negated it (to the extent that Mayo just had a one-point lead at half-time).

    What we are saying is that Gavin and the Dublin players (unlike say Tyrone in the semi-final) were flexible enough both in terms of tactics and personnel to adjust to what had happened, make the necessary changes, and go on to win the game.

    Last response on the issue as thread is about footballer of the year.

    Gavins starting selection had a massive glaring mistake in the form of O'Gara who is clearly not up to this level. He hauled him off asap and had to change his plans around. Dressing is up as tactical genius is ludicrous.


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    #139
    PARlance
    Registered Users Posts: 21,096 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    By what exactly?

    Do you agree starting O'Gara was a disaster and threw the Dublin game plan into disarray?

    How anyone can portray that as tactically awesome is beyond me.

    If one or two things went Mayo's way and they won, Gavin would be criticised for the O'Gara move.

    By the bit he quoted I'd say. McManamon had a big impact.

    I agree with the thoughts on the O'Gara call. Gavin would have come under a lot of scrutiny if they lost. There have been bigger calls made before a final, but it's not far off the top.


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    #140
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,182 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    By what exactly?

    Do you agree starting O'Gara was a disaster and threw the Dublin game plan into disarray?

    How anyone can portray that as tactically awesome is beyond me.

    If one or two things went Mayo's way and they won, Gavin would be criticised for the O'Gara move. A kick of the ball the other way and he's a genius.

    It doesn't work that way.

    By the part I quoted, obviously!


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    #141
    Shurimgreat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭Shurimgreat


    I think everyone agrees Andy Moran is odds on for POTY. And well deserved.


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    #142
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,223 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    By what exactly?

    Do you agree starting O'Gara was a disaster and threw the Dublin game plan into disarray?

    How anyone can portray that as tactically awesome is beyond me.

    If one or two things went Mayo's way and they won, Gavin would be criticised for the O'Gara move. A kick of the ball the other way and he's a genius.

    It doesn't work that way.

    Not a single person has said that starting O'Gara turned out to be tactically awesome.

    What you are missing is that O'Gara wasn't the issue. As Gavin said in a post-match interview "we wanted to try something different". That something different - go long from the kick-out with quick ball to Andrews and O'Gara - just didn't get off the ground. Change in tactics towards the end of the first half and change in personnel at half-time changed it all around.

    You could argue that the difference between Mayo and Dublin over the last two years could come down to the fact that when Gavin took a gamble with a change (O'Gara) that subsequently didn't work, he acted quickly during the game to correct the mistake while Rochford, in the corresponding game last year (Hennelly) didn't act quickly enough.


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    #143
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,223 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I cannot see Footballer of the Year going to anyone but Andy Moran.

    There will be two Dubs nominated - two of McCarthy, Cluxton and O'Callaghan - and the vote will be split, allowing Moran to get the nod.

    Not that bothered as I said in the days before the game.


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    #144
    gramar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,045 ✭✭✭✭gramar


    Surely Andy Moran is the only real choice.
    Hard to see why Cluxton is even being mentioned. 1 easyish save and multiple lost possessions on his kick outs. Did nothing of note or had little to do in the other games.


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    #145
    kilns
    Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    Some posters here would make an arguement for all Mayo 15 all star team this year too


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    #146
    Shurimgreat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭Shurimgreat


    kilns wrote: »
    Some posters here would make an arguement for all Mayo 15 all star team this year too

    Eh no they wouldn't :rolleyes:


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    #147
    MayoAreMagic
    Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    blanch152 wrote: »
    I cannot see Footballer of the Year going to anyone but Andy Moran.

    There will be two Dubs nominated - two of McCarthy, Cluxton and O'Callaghan - and the vote will be split, allowing Moran to get the nod.

    Not that bothered as I said in the days before the game.

    Well more-so by virtue of the fact that he is the best player this season and thereby 100% deserves winning the award in question....


    BTW, this 'split vote' thing. How does it work? How is this relevant to the county someone is from? Surely people just vote for who they think was the best and that is it? How do votes get split?


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    #148
    MayoAreMagic
    Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    gramar wrote: »
    Surely Andy Moran is the only real choice.
    Hard to see why Cluxton is even being mentioned. 1 easyish save and multiple lost possessions on his kick outs. Did nothing of note or had little to do in the other games.

    Lifetime achievement award it seems. I wouldn't even give him an all star tbh. Clarke was exceptional in every game. He done more in the triple save against Kerry alone than Cluxton did all year... Now you can say he didn't have to make the saves, but then that isn't really the point in the context. Nothing personal against him at all, another player just had a superior season.

    For the record my three nominees would be McCarthy, Moran and Barrett, with Moran out in front and the other two very close to each other.


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    #149
    kilns
    Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    blanch152 wrote: »
    I cannot see Footballer of the Year going to anyone but Andy Moran.

    There will be two Dubs nominated - two of McCarthy, Cluxton and O'Callaghan - and the vote will be split, allowing Moran to get the nod.

    Not that bothered as I said in the days before the game.

    Well more-so by virtue of the fact that he is the best player this season and thereby 100% deserves winning the award in question....


    BTW, this 'split vote' thing. How does it work? How is this relevant to the county someone is from? Surely people just vote for who they think was the best and that is it? How do votes get split?
    He was the most important player to a team that needed him to deliver.  However, I dont recalling him setting the world alight prior to the Kerry games. But that is how All Stars are dished out too, some guy could have a stinker of a year and have a good All Ireland final and he gets an All Star.


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    #150
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,223 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    kilns wrote: »
    Some posters here would make an arguement for all Mayo 15 all star team this year too


    Don't really mind if they do, don't think Cluxton for example would complain about missing out on the formal dinner.

    Dublin have won the All-Ireland, Kerry can have the League and Mayo can have the All-Stars and POTY. I'm nearly sorry we didn't let Kildare win the O'Byrne Cup.


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    #151
    kilns
    Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    gramar wrote: »
    Surely Andy Moran is the only real choice.
    Hard to see why Cluxton is even being mentioned. 1 easyish save and multiple lost possessions on his kick outs. Did nothing of note or had little to do in the other games.

    Lifetime achievement award it seems. I wouldn't even give him an all star tbh. Clarke was exceptional in every game. He done more in the triple save against Kerry alone than Cluxton did all year... Now you can say he didn't have to make the saves, but then that isn't really the point in the context.
    He bottled the most important two kicks of his year


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