'I just want a home for my children' - mum on housing list for 12 years

Ultimate Seduction

Cork Truck Driver wrote:

It's €193 now, election due next year, tell the politicians about your displeasure at it.

I don't really care how much it is, I'm just saying when there was loads of construction work there, almost everyone who could work was working.
I've used the dole every now and again over the years an it was a life saver. I do think it should be cut for every 6 months you are on it though. I'm 100% unskilled and uneducated, but I always manage to get work within 3 or 4 months at most.

Wheeliebin30

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

I don't really care how much it is, I'm just saying when there was loads of construction work there, almost everyone who could work was working.
I've used the dole every now and again over the years an it was a life saver. I do think it should be cut for every 6 months you are on it though. I'm 100% unskilled and uneducated, but I always manage to get work within 3 or 4 months at most.

Nah we still had 4-5% unemployment during the boom.

It's called full employment but make no mistake the work shy were still there.

boardsuser1

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Nah we still had 4-5% unemployment during the boom.

It's called full employment but make no mistake the work shy were still there.

You're right there Ted!

wexandproud

Jim Bob Scratcher wrote: »

Maybe because companies rather employ foreigners and pay them next to nothing rather than employee the Irish man and have to pay more. The majority of foreigners aren't spending they're money here, they're sending back to whatever country they're from.

.
foreigners can come here work for far less [according to you ] but they can still pay their way and send money home ,yet we have people here who say it doesn't pay them to work ... something's not not right with the system

NIMAN

I think even during the boom, and when we had full employment, there was still something like 160,000 people on the dole.

Ultimate Seduction

Wheeliebin30 wrote:

Nah we still had 4-5% unemployment during the boom.

I said "almost everyone" and "practically zero"

You'll always have people in and out of jobs, travellers don't tend to work either ect. There will never ever be 100% employment even with no state benefits.

NIMAN

Just think what this woman could have done if she had decided, 12 years ago, "right I'm going to do something about my lot. I'm going to go and get educated, upskill, better myself, get a decent job, so that if I ever have kids I'll be a great parent and be able to provide for them".

second74

gctest50 wrote: »

The place needs babies though or the aging population thing will get worse


"There'll be a million over-65s in Ireland by 2031"

We need a younger generation who will go to work and pay taxes which will pay for the ageing population

NIMAN

We need to have the engineers, the teachers, the scientists, the doctors, the nurses, the accountants, the solicitors, the tradesmen, the programmers, the entrepreneurs etc having kids, not those who will provide a terrible example to the future generations and show them that a life doing nothing is ok.

second74

purpleisafruit wrote: »

I'll preface this by saying that I haven't read the story.
The reason I can think of for her being on the housing list that long is that she applied for rent allowance and in order to be eligible, you need to be on the housing list in many counties.

Yes that is the reason she went on the waiting list, why is she still eligible to be on it 14 years later? Because she never got a job in 14 years during a boom economy! Why didn't she stay at home where she grew up, get a job and eventually be able to afford to rent a place and maybe buy a house. It's what the rest of us have done i.e start at the bottom and work our way up.

padd b1975

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

I can give you a nice list of employers who do pay that and lower.

That's just in Cork.

How much subsistence do they pay?

boardsuser1

padd b1975 wrote: »

How much subsistence do they pay?

Zero

solerina

If you don't work and never have you should be ENTITLED to nothing. If you work and lose your job you should be supported but not forever. People need encouragement to work, if we didn't give so much support to those who never intend to work they may be forced into employment.

boardsuser1

solerina wrote: »

If you don't work and never have you should be ENTITLED to nothing. If you work and lose your job you should be supported but not forever. People need encouragement to work, if we didn't give so much support to those who never intend to work they may be forced into employment.

The word that has the country ruined.

padd b1975

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Zero

You need to go international then, not easy with a family but not impossible either.
Good reliable drivers are taking home between €800 to €1000 per week if they are prepared to stay out.

boardsuser1

padd b1975 wrote: »

You need to go international then, not easy with a family but not impossible either.
Good reliable drivers are taking home between €800 to €1000 per week if they are prepared to stay out.

Nice money there :cool:

Ultimate Seduction

How many of those working good jobs here hand back the kids allowance every month? Zero. Cos ye are ENTITLED to it I suppose..

wexandproud

NIMAN wrote: »

We need to have the engineers, the teachers, the scientists, the doctors, the nurses, the accountants, the solicitors, the tradesmen, the programmers, the entrepreneurs etc having kids, not those who will provide a terrible example to the future generations and show them that a life doing nothing is ok.

but its kind of a catch 22 situation , these are the ones working hard , for the most part , so they can pay their way and they try to find a balance between the amount of kids they can afford to have on the income they earn from working life and they are usually lacking one thing .. the sense of entitlement

boardsuser1

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

How many of those working good jobs here hand back the kids allowance every month? Zero. Cos ye are ENTITLED to it I suppose..

Are you including yourself in that?

boardsuser1

wexandproud wrote: »

but its kind of a catch 22 situation , these are the ones working hard , for the most part , so they can pay their way and they try to find a balance between the amount of kids they can afford to have on the income they earn from working life and they are usually lacking one thing .. the sense of entitlement

Why is this never an election issue with people?

Ultimate Seduction

Cork Truck Driver wrote:

Are you including yourself in that?

I'm not the one on the high horse here. I'm not looking down on anyone. As I said earlier, I make an effort. I earn 1900 a month my rent is 850 a month.

wexandproud

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

How many of those working good jobs here hand back the kids allowance every month? Zero. Cos ye are ENTITLED to it I suppose..

how many of those who have never worked but who have multiple kids, spend the money in the pub or on themselves and then complain they cant afford this that or the other.
some of the busiest weekdays in the pubs are dole day and childrens allowance day
just for the record i think childrens allowance should be means tested and i would hazard a guess that most of the people on here who complain about the scroungers would feel the same

wexandproud

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Why is this never an election issue with people?

poison chalice that no body has the balls to pick up

Geuze

NIMAN wrote: »

I think even during the boom, and when we had full employment, there was still something like 160,000 people on the dole.

2014 data

http://www.welfare.ie/en/downloads/Social-Stats-AR-2014-SectionA.pdf

1,440,000 recipients of weekly welfare

2,220,000 beneficiaries of weekly welfare

Pop = 4.6m

This excludes Child Benefit.

Kiith

This sort of thing really pisses me off. Why the hell have i wasted the last 15 years of my life working my ass off to pay the bills and hopefully, eventually save enough money for a house, when i could have just gone on the housing list as soon as i turned 18. She's renting and wants a free house? Tough ****ing ****. Get a job, save some money, and get a mortgage like the rest of us. Absolute farce.

And what's worse? She'll almost certainly get a house now, as some TD will be bemoaning the tough life she has, and how she's been so brave struggling against this corrupt government. The AAA or Socialist Party will lap this **** right up.

The other thing that really annoys me is the people defending this ****. People are deluded if they think this is how welfare should work.

Geuze

2014 data

Total Number of Recipients of Working Age on Income Supports = 446,000

Total Number of Recipients of Working Age on Employment Supports = 84,000

Total People with Disabilities = 298,000

So this figure excludes people on State Pensions

boardsuser1

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

I'm not the one on the high horse here. I'm not looking down on anyone. As I said earlier, I make an effort. I earn 1900 a month my rent is 850 a month.

As a single man that is manageable.

With kids though..............

Geuze

NIMAN wrote: »

I think even during the boom, and when we had full employment, there was still something like 160,000 people on the dole.

http://www.welfare.ie/en/downloads/Social-Stats-AR-2014-SectionA.pdf

See table 9A

2005 data

JSA = 75,000

JSB = 53,000

In 2014:

JSA = 270,000

JSB = 46,000

Geuze

See table 8A here for the % of the pop on welfare:

http://www.welfare.ie/en/downloads/Social-Stats-AR-2014-SectionA.pdf

It has risen from 35.5% to nearly 50% of the population.

ELM327

Kiith wrote: »

This sort of thing really pisses me off. Why the hell have i wasted the last 15 years of my life working my ass off to pay the bills and hopefully, eventually save enough money for a house, when i could have just gone on the housing list as soon as i turned 18. She's renting and wants a free house? Tough ****ing ****. Get a job, save some money, and get a mortgage like the rest of us. Absolute farce.

And what's worse? She'll almost certainly get a house now, as some TD will be bemoaning the tough life she has, and how she's been so brave struggling against this corrupt government. The AAA or Socialist Party will lap this **** right up.

The other thing that really annoys me is the people defending this ****. People are deluded if they think this is how welfare should work.

Could not agree or thank this post enough.
You've literally taken the words out of my mouth. (well, figuratively but you get the point)

+1

Ultimate Seduction

Geuze wrote:

Total People with Disabilities = 298,000

The increase with people with "disabilities" over the last 10 years is staggering too. Can't mention them tho, they're vunrble.

Whaked off your head on xanx everyday counts as a disability now too

Ultimate Seduction

Cork Truck Driver wrote:

As a single man that is manageable.

Cork Truck Driver wrote:

With kids though..............

I've 1 child!

Geuze

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

The increase with people with "disabilities" over the last 10 years is staggering too. Can't mention them tho, they're vunrble.

Whaked off your head on xanx everyday counts as a disability now too

Yes.

Many people receiving disability payments are not disabled.

DA figures up from 84,000 to 119,000 in nine years.

Ulysses Gaze

gctest50 wrote: »

The place needs babies though or the aging population thing will get worse


"There'll be a million over-65s in Ireland by 2031"

We need people that will work, not sponge.

padd b1975

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Nice money there :cool:

Tarrant, Delaney and O'Donavon transport are all looking for drivers, give Tarrant a call first, new trucks and clean work. Money would be similar across the board with those three.

boardsuser1

padd b1975 wrote: »

Tarrant, Delaney and O'Donavon transport are all looking for drivers, give Tarrant a call first, new trucks and clean work. Money would be similar across the board with those three.

I tried Fergal, no Joy. Delaney who? Also tried O'Donovan in Carrigtwohill, yet again they won't even offer me an interview.

I'd gladly do it

Ultimate Seduction

Geuze wrote:

DA figures up from 84,000 to 119,000 in nine years.

Thought it was more than that to be honest with the rise I have seen around me personally. Maybe I just know a lot of dossers

Wheeliebin30

Highest disability claimees in Europe.

boardsuser1

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Highest disability claimees in Europe.

And rising, so says Niall Boylan!

Gatling

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Highest disability claimees in Europe.

It actually takes around 12 Months to get Disability allowance it's actually not easy ,most applications are turned down on the first application,but get it on appeal but it's easy enough to play the system ,

Id like to see 6 -12 monthly reviews of people on DA to make sure that they are genuine or just getting out of looking for work and the secondary benefits

bananabread12

Achasanai wrote: »

What's the incentive, though? A person who is at threat of becoming homeless looks at his or her situation, realises that there's no welfare state, so makes a decision to go back to college/further education and in five years time, has a job/house/income? It's economic illiteracy or, if not that, ideology has become the primary marker in your economic understanding (which is never a good thing).

No, it means that a person that is at threat of becoming homeless moves back in with family, friends, community support groups, whatever. The welfare state has tore families apart, pitted mother against father, and driven a wedge between communities. The glue that binds people together has disintegrated because at any moment an individual can simply walk into a social building and fill in an application form for free money, a free house ect. Where is the incentive and work ethic to come from in such a set-up? Answer: nowhere. And this is the society that we have created, that we have allowed to be created by feckless governments.

You dress up a nice emotional situation with your "person who is at threat of becoming homeless", but what you fail to examine is why this individual has become homeless? That is a more interesting discussion. Is it mental health for example or perhaps it more to do with the fact that this individual resides in an area that does not match that individuals income? If so, why? Why doesn't this individual move elsewhere more suitable to his/her income? Or is it drugs? Or drink? Why is it my problem that some random individual chooses to drink themselves into an early grave and is now on the cusp of being thrown out of their home? It's time fully grown adults in this country were treated like the adults that they are - there are far too many people in this country that need to start taking some personal responsibility for themselves and realise that there are consequences to their actions. Why should I, or anyone else, be punished and penalised for the fecklessness of others?! If they can't take care of their kids, why should I take care of them?

If you can't support a child in this world - get an abortion. If you can't afford to live in Dublin - move out. If you can't afford to live at the standard of employed people, find work! It's laughable and an utter pathetic indictment of our society that this simple concept is deemed controversial by some. This is not my problem. This is not the problem of society. Why on earth would you ever, if even for a moment, assume that it was?!?!

We're told that the market must work - so let it work! The government has a lot to answer for! At a time when productively employed, law-abiding people of good values and cultural capital, moral and ethical standing are in desperate need of finding accommodation (and are paying through the nose for it), the government is currently engaged in supporting an entire cancerous section of the population to live within Dublin City - a place that they do not belong! They cannot afford to live in Dublin - so let the market work and permit them to do what our great grandparents did - physically remove themselves from our society and to leave to build a life elsewhere in England, Australia, Canada or America. Why must productive people be forced to support and prop up a people that do not belong here?! They don't belong here - they can't afford it. Leave. And through the social housing, the government has created a festering ghetto-isation of our cities and towns where, through public roads, undesirables who do not hold the same values as others in our society with respect to property rights, are permitted to freely traverse the city and to spread it's criminality and anti-social behaviour to all corners. The State is engaged in a direct assault on private property rights.

These people are here through artificial means - they reside here through artificial means. They don't belong here and without the State they would remove themselves so that employed people can find properties and land to build and live. Just allow the market to work, permit the market to work.

Foxhound38

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

I know a 27 year old girl, 2 kids, 2 different sperm donors, never worked a day in her life.

She complains that she has to pay €50 a week to the CC for a 2 bed house in an area with the highest average house prices in Dublin.

Shes complaining because her 21 year old sister has 3 kids, 3 sperm donors and a brand new 3 bed house.....but only pays €25 a week.

Apparently.....its not fair!

:mad:

Billy86

bananabread12 wrote: »

No, it means that a person that is at threat of becoming homeless moves back in with family, friends, community support groups, whatever.

And a person who does not have friends or family, what do they do? What happens to children in care when they turn 18? Since you're suggesting getting rid of all aftercare services and supports for these vulnerable young people, I'm assuming you have answers. Which community support groups are you talking about that will cover this?

How will people manage to 'stay in' or 'return to' education in the absence of any welfare system? How will children with unemployed parents get to even go to primary or secondary school? You are aware the free primary and secondary education available to us all is part of this "welfare state" bogeyman of yours, right?

Foxhound38

ban resistant recalcitrant debutant wrote: »

Working in a low paid job is not glorious self enrichment. It's tedious and mentally draining.

I advocate for social welfare to be paid to everybody, i.e, a universal income, and it should be paid for by rich corporations who can easily afford it.

But the corporations don't want to pay taxes, especially not high taxes, and so the politicians refuse to discuss these issues.

People should recognise that politicians enforce punitive tax rates of 50%+ on ordinary people while allowing corporations to pay very little. Politicians don't appear to be very good at their job of representing ordinary people.

You do not speak for ordinary people. Ordinary people get up and go to work and pay their own way.

Stop blaming the politicians for your life choices.

Ulysses Gaze

ban resistant recalcitrant debutant wrote: »

Working in a low paid job is not glorious self enrichment. It's tedious and mentally draining.

I advocate for social welfare to be paid to everybody, i.e, a universal income, and it should be paid for by rich corporations who can easily afford it.

But the corporations don't want to pay taxes, especially not high taxes, and so the politicians refuse to discuss these issues.

People should recognise that politicians enforce punitive tax rates of 50%+ on ordinary people while allowing corporations to pay very little. Politicians don't appear to be very good at their job of representing ordinary people.

Rich corporations employ over 300,000 people that pay taxes and are only here because of the low corpo tax rate.

If you start taxing the multinationals more tax like you are suggesting, they'd leave.

And then more people would be unemployed. Then less tax would be paid and the overall income tax rate would go up to compensate.

And no...your posts are not that high quality that they are wasted here.

Far from it.

Wanderer78

Ulysses Gaze wrote:

If you start taxing the multinationals more tax like you are suggesting, they'd leave.

We do have to start addressing this though, we can't keep taxing labour more and more, and not taxing capital more. There's something really wrong with this approach, but I'm not sure we know what to do about it

ELM327

Wanderer78 wrote: »

We do have to start addressing this though, we can't keep taxing labour more and more, and not taxing capital more. There's something really wrong with this approach, but I'm not sure we know what to do about it

The reason we have so much FDI is our low, unchanging corporation tax.
If we change it at all it will drive FDI away.

Foxhound38

BillyBobBS wrote: »

It was always going to end this way, citizen turning against citizen. It's what the establishment do "Look at those people over there" whilst they make off like gangsters.

Unfortunately the average Irish voter has an incredibly low IQ and falls for it again and again.

So... it's the "establishment" that prevented her from getting up off her hole and looking for a job at 18, rather than going straight on the housing list?

Good to know - I guess I should have remembered the golden rule: when you make crap life choices and get called out for it, just mumble something about bankers and politicians and you shall be absolved of any personal responsibility. :rolleyes:

jimmycrackcorm

These articles in the independent skit single mothers issues with housing irritate me because they never ask the question about or focus on the absent fathers.

Billy86

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Rich corporations employ over 300,000 people that pay taxes and are only here because of the low corpo tax rate.

If you start taxing the multinationals more tax like you are suggesting, they'd leave.

And then more people would be unemployed. Then less tax would be paid and the overall income tax rate would go up to compensate.

And no...your posts are not that high quality that they are wasted here.

Far from it.

This is pretty much the guts of it - I'm of the opinion that universal income and whatnot would be great and hugely beneficial, and I'm also without doubt on the 'left' side of things with these matters, but the sheer lack of realism from the left in Ireland would make you despair at times.

It's amazing how some just don't see how if you crank up those corporate tax rates, the likes of Google, Facebook etc have the capacity to up and leave pretty much at the drop of a hat. As beneficial as they are to us (and they unquestionably are), people need to stop kidding themselves into thinking we're in some position of strength in terms of negotiating on them. And they can argue against that all they like, but until they're able to come up with an alternative way of how to employ those 300,000+ people at best as credible as the hardline Brexiters who think Europe will crumble to pieces in the face of the 'mighty UK behemoth'.