Pro14 2017-18 season thread

Eod100 · 02-05-2018 8:26pm

Former Former wrote: »

There's just been a new TV deal signed which lasts up to 2022 so there's no prospect of the Saffers joining in before then.

If the Pro14 makes a good go of it and there's money on the table from SA broadcasters, then we'd get over the travel issue.

I guess travel issue comes into play with only what 1 pool having a SA team? Assuming for now that Southern Kings are a fair bit off any qualification. Possibly harder for teams in that pool withh extra travel and recovery times.. Then again didn't Connacht have to go to Siberia in the Challenge Cup recently?!

Squidgy Black · 02-05-2018 8:38pm

Eod100 wrote: »

I guess travel issue comes into play with only what 1 pool having a SA team? Assuming for now that Southern Kings are a fair bit off any qualification. Possibly harder for teams in that pool withh extra travel and recovery times.. Then again didn't Connacht have to go to Siberia in the Challenge Cup recently?!

Yeah against Enisei, but that was a one off game, they were made play the other two pool games in Sochi. London to Sochi is 4 and a half hours if you can charter a plane, 6 and a half with Turkish Airlines with a stop in Istanbul.

It's easily twice that for SA. There would have to be big financial compensation to get the English and French clubs to buy into it.

Tigerandahalf · 02-05-2018 8:49pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Don't know about that. You'd be talking about bringing union owned teams into a privately owned and run Premiership that's already talking about closing shop and cutting some of their existing shareholders loose.

The main reason they are doing that is for purely selfish financial reasons. They don't want relegation threatening their investment. If more money was to come in from S Africa you can be sure deals would be done.

Some of the Welsh teams are privately owned along with the Irish provincial unions in the pro14.

Neil3030 · 02-05-2018 8:49pm

I'd be very surprised if we get any more SA teams in the Pro14 (or whatever it would then be called).

I'd say the most the Pro14 could handle is an additional 2 teams, to go to a 4x4 pool structure. Super Rugby showed before that an 18-team tournament just loses the run of itself.

And if those additional 2 teams were from the big 4 franchises in SA, their presence in Super Rugby is practically gone.

So unless they develop the Griquas and the Pumas (and could they realistically be even as good as the Kings?), I just can't see it.

irishbucsfan · 02-05-2018 9:00pm

Neil3030 wrote: »

I'd be very surprised if we get any more SA teams in the Pro14 (or whatever it would then be called).

I'd say the most the Pro14 could handle is an additional 2 teams, to go to a 4x4 pool structure. Super Rugby showed before that an 18-team tournament just loses the run of itself.

And if those additional 2 teams were from the big 4 franchises in SA, their presence in Super Rugby is practically gone.

So unless they develop the Griquas and the Pumas (and could they realistically be even as good as the Kings?), I just can't see it.

The NFL is a 32 team tournament. The issue with Super Rugby was not the number of teams.

Neil3030 · 02-05-2018 9:10pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The NFL is a 32 team tournament. The issue with Super Rugby was not the number of teams.

Completely different sporting ecosystem. If a rugby league bring in a reverse-meritocratic draft, revenue sharing and salary caps that mean something, all while appealing to an immense domestic TV audience concentrated within three time-zones, then you can start using precedents from the NFL.

irishbucsfan · 02-05-2018 9:14pm

Neil3030 wrote: »

Completely different sporting ecosystem. If a rugby league bring in a reverse-meritocratic draft, revenue sharing and salary caps that mean something, all while appealing to an immense domestic TV audience concentrated within three time-zones, then you can start using precedents from the NFL.

None of those things were related to the problems that Super Rugby had either. Except for the 3 timezones, which obviously is far easier than Super Rugby's 3 continents. Revenue sharing exists in both but its irrelevant. They just had a really silly uneven structure that obviously would not work from the beginning.

Neil3030 · 02-05-2018 9:20pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

None of those things were related to the problems that Super Rugby had either. Except for the 3 timezones, which obviously is far easier than Super Rugby's 3 continents. Or revenue sharing, which exists. They just had a really silly uneven structure that obviously would not work from the beginning.

Exactly, so how does an 18-team league of Irish, Scottish, Welsh, Italian and South African teams succeed where an 18-team league of NZ, SA, Aus, Japanese, and Arg teams failed? Keeping in mind that Super Rugby still faces the same time-zone and travel issues in their pared-down 15-team structure.

Rigor Mortis · 02-05-2018 9:31pm

Neil3030 wrote: »

Exactly, so how does an 18-team league of Irish, Scottish, Welsh, Italian and South African teams succeed where an 18-team league of NZ, SA, Aus, Japanese, and Arg teams failed? Keeping in mind that Super Rugby still faces the same time-zone and travel issues in their pared-down 15-team structure.

Time zones are an issue in Super Rugby not pro 18. Also, SA teams are well matched for Pro 18 standard, they just end up getting beaten by all blacks almost every year

irishbucsfan · 02-05-2018 9:31pm

Neil3030 wrote: »

Exactly, so how does an 18-team league of Irish, Scottish, Welsh, Italian and South African teams succeed where an 18-team league of NZ, SA, Aus, Japanese, and Arg teams failed? Keeping in mind that Super Rugby still faces the same time-zone and travel issues in their pared-down 15-team structure.

By not having completely ridiculous scheduling and structure and try to make a 15 game schedule work for a league of 18 teams that are all at completely different standards.

20 team league (purely as an example, I invented 4 new teams). 5 divisions of 4 sides, with Scots and Italians together. Each team plays their own division home and away, plays each other team home or away. 22 game regular season, everyone plays each other then either 5 +3 qualify or you do some wildcard games. Would be absolutely fine. And its just one example of multiple potential structures that are all far, far less insane than the Super 18's.

Neil3030 · 02-05-2018 9:40pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

By not having completely ridiculous scheduling and structure and try to make a 15 game schedule work for a league of 18 teams that are all at completely different standards.

20 team league (purely as an example, I invented 4 new teams). 5 divisions of 4 sides, with Scots and Italians together. Each team plays their own division home and away, plays each other team home or away. 22 game regular season, everyone plays each other then either 5 +3 qualify or you do some wildcard games. Would be absolutely fine. And its just one example of multiple potential structures that are all far, far less insane than the Super 18's.

And this goes back to the trade-off between easier logistics/more derbies (what the unions want) and an even schedule for all teams (what would make for a better tournament).

irishbucsfan · 02-05-2018 9:42pm

Neil3030 wrote: »

And this goes back to the trade-off between easier logistics/more derbies (what the unions want) and an even schedule for all teams (what would make for a better tournament).

It would have the same number of derbies and only marginally more difficult logistics depending on where the other teams come from.

Neil3030 · 02-05-2018 9:54pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It would have the same number of derbies and only marginally more difficult logistics depending on where the other teams come from.

Yes, your model is the derby/logistics friendly way to do it. But it results in skewed revenues, and an easier path to the knockouts for some teams depending on how strong their group is.

Rigor Mortis · 03-05-2018 8:32am

The Rugby Conversation Pod has an end of season interview with one of the SA Sports editors. Interesting take on the first season in. Very strongly of the opinion that the Sharks will join the Pro14 within the next 2-3 years

irishbucsfan · 03-05-2018 9:39am

Neil3030 wrote: »

Yes, your model is the derby/logistics friendly way to do it. But it results in skewed revenues, and an easier path to the knockouts for some teams depending on how strong their group is.

Right. Which is what the NFL does. Which is my point.

It works for the 6 Nations. It works for the NFL. Other very successful structures are happy with eventual consistency so I see no reason at all why it won't work for us. It's not what Super Rugby did. It's how to make a structure work when your number of teams > 50% of gameweeks.

Burkie1203 · 03-05-2018 9:39am

What are they about to announce?

https://twitter.com/TinoAnayi/status/991951224718200832?s=19

Squatter · 03-05-2018 9:45am

Burkie1203 wrote: »

What are they about to announce?

https://twitter.com/TinoAnayi/status/991951224718200832?s=19

That next year's Pro 14 final will be played in Rome ..... or Bloemfontein!

Rigor Mortis · 03-05-2018 10:10am

fingers crossed for Rome

icdg · 03-05-2018 10:39am

The Irish TV rights deal is supposed to be announced any day now, so that could be it.

Eod100 · 03-05-2018 11:21am

Squatter wrote: »

That next year's Pro 14 final will be played in Rome ..... or Bloemfontein!

Well it probably can't be Dublin 3 years in a row!

Bazzo · 03-05-2018 11:55am

https://twitter.com/PRO14Official/status/991988992311775233

Not only do I get to watch every game for a tenner a month here, I get to watch them all for free when I'm at home too! Everything's coming up Bazzo.

Squatter · 03-05-2018 12:52pm

Bazzo wrote: »

https://twitter.com/PRO14Official/status/991988992311775233

Great news altogether!

I've always felt that my life wasn't quite fulfilled yet, because I hadn't managed to see a Zebre - Treviso game!

irishbucsfan · 03-05-2018 12:55pm

Zebra Treviso is a really good point.

Previously we haven’t had an Italian broadcaster and didn’t get coverage because of that. Sounds like that’s no longer a problem?

Great for the league in Ireland though. Bit of a bummer in the UK but hopefully Premier Sports are alright.

Bazzo · 03-05-2018 12:55pm

Squatter wrote: »

Great news altogether!

I've always felt that my life wasn't quite fulfilled yet, because I hadn't managed to see a Zebre - Treviso game!

Might actually be a decent fixture these days

For Connacht fans who've suffered through having about half our games televised every year it's brilliant.

Squatter · 03-05-2018 12:58pm

Bazzo wrote: »

For Connacht fans who've suffered through having about half our games televised every year it's brilliant.

I bet you wish they hadn't televised the Zebre game in Galway this season!

Bazzo · 03-05-2018 1:00pm

Squatter wrote: »

I bet you wish they hadn't televised the Zebre game in Galway this season!

This season? What are you talking about? They cancelled this season due to a gas leak in the sportsground

Squatter · 03-05-2018 1:06pm

Bazzo wrote: »

This season? What are you talking about? They cancelled this season due to a gas leak in the sportsground

That's a shocking way to describe poor Kieran Keane!

Eod100 · 03-05-2018 1:11pm

Does that mean no Sky from next season? No Champions Cup there either. Guess they will still have Top14 and some internationals..

sydthebeat · 03-05-2018 2:42pm

Eod100 wrote: »

Does that mean no Sky from next season? No Champions Cup there either. Guess they will still have Top14 and some internationals..

Starting to be become very hard to justify the sky package just for super rugby

Eod100 · 03-05-2018 7:04pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

Starting to be become very hard to justify the sky package just for super rugby

Yeah I think Eir have connection with BT too so could get both with the 1 package

Pro14 2017-18 season thread

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