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Self driving buses, trains, trucks etc

  • 17-08-2017 8:37am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 11,150 ✭✭✭✭ DaCor


    Don't know about the rest of you, but I am looking forward to seeing driverless buses, trains, taxis and luas

    It's really not as far away as people think


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭ Infini


    DaCor wrote: »
    L1011 wrote: »
    expect union backlash as always

    Don't know about the rest of you, but I am looking forward to seeing driverless buses, trains, taxis and luas

    It's really not as far away as people think

    You know its really low to want people to be out of a job I mean thats just being miserable and petty. I mean do you want a good chunk of the population to just sit around around or do nothing or be forced into low wage jobs?

    Besides that wont happen in most transport because of the risks associated with removing human intervention.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,150 ✭✭✭✭ DaCor


    Infini wrote: »
    You know its really low to want people to be out of a job I mean thats just being miserable and petty. I mean do you want a good chunk of the population to just sit around around or do nothing or be forced into low wage jobs?

    Besides that wont happen in most transport because of the risks associated with removing human intervention.

    It's not miserable at all, it's progress, nothing more.

    Look at agriculture, from high human labour requirement, to minimal.

    Same for most manufacturing processes.

    With all that, we are still not far from full employment in this country, see http://www.cso.ie/multiquicktables/quickTables.aspx?id=mum01

    What happens is jobs change, new streams of employment open up. It's the way of things for the last 200 years.

    As for it won't happen, it already is

    https://www.google.ie/search?q=Self+driving+bus

    In 10 years this will be the new normal


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,199 boardsuser1


    What are people's opinions?

    I personally will need to upskill if this is successful.

    Partially driverless trucks to be on UK roads by 2019
    http://jrnl.ie/3564121


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭ LeinsterDub


    What are people's opinions?

    I personally will need to upskill if this is successful.

    Partially driverless trucks to be on UK roads by 2019
    http://jrnl.ie/3564121
    For testing. Still quite a while off and massive issues to overcome regarding merges and signage. There is a reason we've a maximum length on trucks.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 43,485 Mod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder


    i would guess the biggest issues would be legislation/insurance.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,729 ✭✭✭ plodder


    What are people's opinions?

    I personally will need to upskill if this is successful.

    Partially driverless trucks to be on UK roads by 2019
    http://jrnl.ie/3564121
    upskill in what way? Each vehicle still needs a driver. I wonder will it result in any change to tachograph rules.

    Seems like a good idea for long distance journeys on motorway. Though not sure if the distances in this country would justify it initially at least.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,199 boardsuser1


    plodder wrote: »
    upskill in what way? Each vehicle still needs a driver. I wonder will it result in any change to tachograph rules.

    Seems like a good idea for long distance journeys on motorway. Though not sure if the distances in this country would justify it initially at least.

    Upskill as a result of what will undoubtedly be the future I'd imagine.

    I'm in my early 30's and could have 40 years of work ahead of me.

    In relation to tachograph's,if the driver is onboard it will count as normal I'd be inclined to believe.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,199 boardsuser1


    i would guess the biggest issues would be legislation/insurance.

    Legislation is the easier of the 2 I'd say.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,199 boardsuser1


    For testing. Still quite a while off and massive issues to overcome regarding merges and signage. There is a reason we've a maximum length on trucks.

    Anything over 16.5 meters needs a special licence, Such as a road train.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭ Del.Monte


    One of these days they are actually going to reinvent the wheel. Road trains for freight - it would be funny if it wasn't indicative of transport policy here and in countries like the USA.

    Would it not be a better idea to develop rail freight, private sidings etc. and encourage businesses that need to ship large consignments to set up adjacent to rail lines I know it's all pie in the sky stuff but....driverless trucks, road trains, deliveries by drone - the stuff of science fiction. :rolleyes:


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,315 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Dravokivich


    plodder wrote: »
    upskill in what way? Each vehicle still needs a driver. I wonder will it result in any change to tachograph rules.

    Seems like a good idea for long distance journeys on motorway. Though not sure if the distances in this country would justify it initially at least.

    With the safety concerns aside for a second that usually come up with automated driving. I think we have quite a strong motorway network that could support this, as well as it being something that is generally perceived as over invested in, to the detriment of other infrastructure.

    You can have hubs just off motorways for an automated truck to get to and then a driver takes over.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,924 ✭✭✭✭ Alun


    Can you imagine the carnage that would ensue when the average Irish driver tries to merge at 50km/h on to a motorway as a 3 truck driverless convoy goes past the on ramp? :eek::eek::eek:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭ Layne Rotten Colon


    HGV Drivers were always going to be one of the first human worker classifications to to lost to the 4th Industrial Revolution. This news comes of little surprise.

    Longer term, the future of all transport will likely go the way of pneumatic air tube transport systems coupled with low friction magnetic pulse levitation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,729 ✭✭✭ plodder


    With the safety concerns aside for a second that usually come up with automated driving. I think we have quite a strong motorway network that could support this, as well as it being something that is generally perceived as over invested in, to the detriment of other infrastructure.

    You can have hubs just off motorways for an automated truck to get to and then a driver takes over.
    Yeah, maybe though I think fully driverless will be a long way off. This idea sounds quite practical though. I'd imagine that any truck with the technology would be able to join convoys like this randomly on the m-way, though there would have to be some way to compensate the vehicle at the front for providing the "service" but not directly benefiting. Keeping trucks together in tight groups of three could help congestion to some extent, as well as fuel economy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭ LeinsterDub


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    One of these days they are actually going to reinvent the wheel. Road trains for freight - it would be funny if it wasn't indicative of transport policy here and in countries like the USA.

    Would it not be a better idea to develop rail freight, private sidings etc. and encourage businesses that need to ship large consignments to set up adjacent to rail lines I know it's all pie in the sky stuff but....driverless trucks, road trains, deliveries by drone - the stuff of science fiction. :rolleyes:

    You can rage all you want against the dying of that particular night but the fact remains in many parts of the world rail isn't an option or competitive.

    I mean would we not be better developing typewriter technology encourage businesses to have private typing pools etc who needs computers


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭ LeinsterDub


    .
    Longer term, the future of all transport will likely go the way of pneumatic air tube transport systems coupled with low friction magnetic pulse levitation.

    Until I see any actual progress I will be calling hyperloop the fevered dream of mad men


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,597 ✭✭✭✭ end of the road


    DaCor wrote: »
    It's not miserable at all, it's progress, nothing more.

    Look at agriculture, from high human labour requirement, to minimal.

    Same for most manufacturing processes.

    With all that, we are still not far from full employment in this country, see http://www.cso.ie/multiquicktables/quickTables.aspx?id=mum01

    What happens is jobs change, new streams of employment open up. It's the way of things for the last 200 years.

    As for it won't happen, it already is

    https://www.google.ie/search?q=Self+driving+bus

    In 10 years this will be the new normal

    on a couple of test routes yes. however it will be 20 maybe even 30 years before full service would begin with self-driving busses, and that may be an under-estimate.

    julian the journalist asange is innocent, free julian the journalist.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,729 ✭✭✭ plodder


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    One of these days they are actually going to reinvent the wheel. Road trains for freight - it would be funny if it wasn't indicative of transport policy here and in countries like the USA.

    Would it not be a better idea to develop rail freight, private sidings etc. and encourage businesses that need to ship large consignments to set up adjacent to rail lines I know it's all pie in the sky stuff but....driverless trucks, road trains, deliveries by drone - the stuff of science fiction. :rolleyes:
    A lot of that stuff is pie in the Sky as there isn't an obvious payback initially. This is different though. The technology is mature enough and the payback quite clear to the users and the public. I'd say this will be live somewhere in Europe or US in the next five years. Rail freight will remain a niche business I'd think.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,150 ✭✭✭✭ DaCor


    on a couple of test routes yes. however it will be 20 maybe even 30 years before full service would begin with self-driving busses, and that may be an under-estimate.

    You have a mistaken view of the pace of technological advancement.

    These will be the norm in a lot of places within a decade. Probably not Ireland, we've never been a leader in anything except charging for plastic bags but this will come here and faster than you think.

    The wage saving alone would pay for a crapload more buses. Added to that, the timetables could be better structured to serve the customers as opposed to the current situation where they are setup for the staff first.

    Like I said, I look forward to seeing this


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭ Layne Rotten Colon


    Until I see any actual progress I will be calling hyperloop the fevered dream of mad men

    It's very much long term, but Hyperloop is having success in it's testing and trials. There are also other similar companies developing such prototypes, as you can't easily patent such a simple principle.

    Some reports suggest large scale costs would be 25% that of rail road building, essentially it's just small pod packages on magnets in a pipe-like tube, with very little other hardware involved, and very little service wear n' tear due to the low friction principle.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭ LeinsterDub


    It's very much long term, but Hyperloop is having success in it's testing and trials. There are also other similar companies developing such prototypes, as you can't easily patent such a simple principle.

    It's had zero success. They've fired a cart down a 100 metre long tube at less than 100 miles per hour. This isn't anything new and it's the equivalent of throwing a toy rocket in to the sky and claiming we've mad great progress getting to the moon. This idea isn't new Jules Vern was writing about it 170 years ago


  • Registered Users Posts: 756 liger


    DaCor wrote: »
    Like I said, I look forward to seeing this

    Enjoy your holiday because it won't be in Ireland in your lifetime. That's my view of technological advancements and the willingness to roll them out here.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 43,485 Mod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder


    anyone else reckon that this convoy idea is solving a problem with computers that was solved centuries ago with rail?


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,597 ✭✭✭✭ end of the road


    DaCor wrote: »
    You have a mistaken view of the pace of technological advancement.

    These will be the norm in a lot of places within a decade. Probably not Ireland, we've never been a leader in anything except charging for plastic bags but this will come here and faster than you think.

    The wage saving alone would pay for a crapload more buses. Added to that, the timetables could be better structured to serve the customers as opposed to the current situation where they are setup for the staff first.

    Like I said, I look forward to seeing this

    the timetables are not set up for the staff first. the wage savings would only pay for a few busses i reccan, busses don't come cheap.

    julian the journalist asange is innocent, free julian the journalist.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭ LeinsterDub


    anyone else reckon that this convoy idea is solving a problem with computers that was solved centuries ago with rail?

    Just like computers solved a problem that was solved centuries ago with the pen. It's called progress.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,286 Mod ✭✭✭✭ devnull


    THREADS MERGED


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 43,485 Mod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder


    Just like computers solved a problem that was solved centuries ago with the pen. It's called progress.
    i have one pen and one computer on the desk in front of me. it's a draw.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭ Del.Monte


    First there were trains and then buses and then guided busways and then they realised that they had invented a less reliable type of ....train.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,597 ✭✭✭✭ end of the road


    You can rage all you want against the dying of that particular night but the fact remains in many parts of the world rail isn't an option or competitive.

    I mean would we not be better developing typewriter technology encourage businesses to have private typing pools etc who needs computers


    type-writers are not a valid comparison to rail freight. rail freight can be competitive in ireland with a policy shift toards it. it would require breaking the stranglehold of the road hauliers but it will be worth it once done. greater use of rail freight will be cheaper then paying all those fines for carbon emissions as well i'd bet. electric trucks will still require a lot of energy to power them all which will have to come from burning something and in a lot more quantities.

    julian the journalist asange is innocent, free julian the journalist.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,729 ✭✭✭ plodder


    i have one pen and one computer on the desk in front of me. it's a draw.
    While there's a good argument for always using the simplest tool for a particular job... which are you using to read and post on this website ? :pac:

    On railways vs roads, it's kind of similar. If there is a railway line between A and B and you want to go from A to B, then great. But, people more than likely want to go from C to D and the road network is vastly larger.

    The argument is different in big cities obviously where roads are much more limited.


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