Middle eastern and Islamic attitudes to women

A Little Pony

end of the road wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Defense of Islam by bringing up Irelands past with women's rights issues. He has done it on plenty of other threads on the subject. Always seems to find a way to dilute the issue.

no, never happened.

Any time an attack happens by Islamic terrorists you go into some bizarre whataboutery mode which annoys others on the forum almost seeking the reaction, we saw it on the Barcelona thread.

end of the road

A Little Pony wrote: »

Any time an attack happens by Islamic terrorists you go into some bizarre whataboutery mode which annoys others on the forum almost seeking the reaction, we saw it on the Barcelona thread.

i don't go into some bizarre whataboutery mode. we saw nothing of the sort on the Barcelona thread as it never happened.
i do have to remind the hysterical and fundamentalist islam and muslim bashers that it isn't just fundamental islam that is an issue but fundamental anything. that most muslims do not support fundamental islamic attacks.

K.Flyer

end of the road wrote: »

[...]
i do have to remind the hysterical and fundamentalist islam and muslim bashers that it isn't just fundamental islam that is an issue but fundamental anything. that most muslims do not support fundamental islamic attacks.

Have you forgotten the thread title..
"Middle eastern and Islamic attitudes to women"..
This discussion is not about Islamic attacks, so stop trying to derail the thread further.

end of the road

K.Flyer wrote: »

Have you forgotten the thread title..
"Middle eastern and Islamic attitudes to women"..
This discussion is not about Islamic attacks, so stop trying to derail the thread further.

i'm aware of what the discussion is called and what it is about and i'm not de-railing anything. i had an allegation thrown at me and i debunked it. nothing more.
i'm in agreement the attitudes and treatment of people in islamic theocracies is completely wrong and there is no justification for it.

up for anything

take everything wrote: »

But the attitudes to women in North African/middle eastern/Islamic culture never ceases to utterly baffle me.

"The extraordinary scenes witnessed at the Circuit Criminal Court in Tralee, in which up to 50 people -- the bulk of them middle-aged and elderly men -- queued to shake Foley's hands, pat his arm, hug and kiss him and wipe the tears welling in the convicted sex offender's eyes, had never been witnessed in the Tralee courtroom." - This wasn't the Middle East and it wasn't one hundred years ago or even fifty. It was EIGHT years ago!

She has to text/email/see her rapist - USA 2016

Forced to share child custody with their rapists - USA now!

Child marriage in the USA -
2017

Child Marriage in the USA - 2017

The attitudes towards women throughout the world never ceases to utterly baffle me!

Spider Web

"I'm shocked by mistreatment of women - so much so, that I think focus on where women are treated worst of all should be deflected to where it's overall nowhere near as bad and where women can still speak out."

It's just bizarre.

A Little Pony

Spider Web wrote: »

"I'm shocked by mistreatment of women - so much so, that I think focus on where women are treated worst of all should be deflected to where it's overall nowhere near as bad and where women can still speak out."

It's just bizarre.

It absolutely is. Very weird.

Spider Web

I'm sure as heck not denying sexism/chauvinism/misogyny elsewhere and I'm certainly not ok with it, but how does it mitigate the situations where women are being treated worst of all and cannot speak out?

maninasia

In Malaysia the mosque calls to prayer early in the morning would be a giveaway.

The women who aren't wearing the head scarves are almost all ethnic Chinese.

Muslim women have strong pressure and are almost obligated to wear headscarves (certainly are obligated to wear it in many places and households and neighbourhoods ).

Malaysia feels okay now but it is at that edge where it could change for the worse.

The issue I have with Islam is they have all sorts of regulations and protocol for interacting with women and they divide the sexes for so many things even swimming pools . You can't even shake their hands in many countries it just creates a barrier and awkwardness.

up for anything

take everything wrote: »

.......
But the attitudes to women in North African/middle eastern/Islamic culture never ceases to utterly baffle me.
...........

What is wrong with these people.
Are women truly seen as either subhuman or property in these cultures.
........

Anyone with any insights into the psychology behind such cultures and these attitudes to women. It seems to be a huge problem (and largely untouched by feminism- a shocking indictment in itself).

Spider Web wrote: »

"I'm shocked by mistreatment of women - so much so, that I think focus on where women are treated worst of all should be deflected to where it's overall nowhere near as bad and where women can still speak out."

It's just bizarre.

Spider Web wrote: »

I'm sure as heck not denying sexism/chauvinism/misogyny elsewhere and I'm certainly not ok with it, but how does it mitigate the situations where women are being treated worst of all and cannot speak out?

Nothing excuses the inhumane treatment of women in any culture, but the OP (who choose, for some odd reason, to make a mockery of his post with his Emma Barnett cracks) asked for insights into the psychology behind the treatment of women in particular areas. He seems to have left out India for some reason large and all as it is and I'm always suspicious of people's motives for posting solely about Islamic culture when such behaviour is seen in many other cultures, religions and countries and is not endemic to the Middle East and North Africa.

I posted those links to show that there are attitudes and cultures within so called modern countries with modern religions (is there such a thing) that are very similar but not yet as extreme or vicious. If the OP is baffled by these attitudes in other places, maybe he/she should look closer to home for answers that are easier to understand.

Watching how women are being stripped of choice and rights in some states in the US at present and if it continues at the same rate it won't take many years, especially if Trump is ousted and Pence takes his place, before they may be envying their counterparts in the Middle East.

Religion is just a front for control and it seems that the most prized control within a religion is sexual control over another person or persons and sexual control is at the top of the authority and restraint ladder over others and for anyone trying to control women that's the place to start.

I don't think any but the most uneducated in Islam (but sadly there are millions of them) at heart believe that women are second class, mentally, physically or in any way but it suits the ruling powers to propagate that view and religion is the best way but for the men who don't believe it is very difficult to give up the power. Nobody likes handing over power. Most normal people, unless they're actual psychopaths/sociopaths, living with others know the full capabilities of the other humans they live with and know that women are 'equal' to men. It is impossible not to realise it and perhaps be frightened by it.

And maybe I'm talking bollix and expressing myself terribly.

To the OP though and to quote the bible (because it suits me )

"Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the
mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?"

Matthew 7:4

Divelment

up for anything wrote: »

Nothing excuses the inhumane treatment of women in any culture, but the OP (who choose, for some odd reason, to make a mockery of his post with his Emma Barnett cracks) asked for insights into the psychology behind the treatment of women in particular areas. He seems to have left out India for some reason large and all as it is and I'm always suspicious of people's motives for posting solely about Islamic culture when such behaviour is seen in many other cultures, religions and countries and is not endemic to the Middle East and North Africa.

I posted those links to show that there are attitudes and cultures within so called modern countries with modern religions (is there such a thing) that are very similar but not yet as extreme or vicious. If the OP is baffled by these attitudes in other places, maybe he/she should look closer to home for answers that are easier to understand.

Watching how women are being stripped of choice and rights in some states in the US at present and if it continues at the same rate it won't take many years, especially if Trump is ousted and Pence takes his place, before they may be envying their counterparts in the Middle East.

Religion is just a front for control and it seems that the most prized control within a religion is sexual control over another person or persons and sexual control is at the top of the authority and restraint ladder over others and for anyone trying to control women that's the place to start.

I don't think any but the most uneducated in Islam (but sadly there are millions of them) at heart believe that women are second class, mentally, physically or in any way but it suits the ruling powers to propagate that view and religion is the best way but for the men who don't believe it is very difficult to give up the power. Nobody likes handing over power. Most normal people, unless they're actual psychopaths/sociopaths, living with others know the full capabilities of the other humans they live with and know that women are 'equal' to men. It is impossible not to realise it and perhaps be frightened by it.

And maybe I'm talking bollix and expressing myself terribly.

To the OP though and to quote the bible (because it suits me )

"Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the
mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?"

Matthew 7:4

Say what you want about Trump but Pence is a religiously inspired nutjob. He won't allow himself be in a room unaccompanied with another woman, that's up there with membership of the Iona Institute and other forms of serious religious indoctrination.

Spider Web

up for anything wrote: »

Nothing excuses the inhumane treatment of women in any culture, but the OP (who choose, for some odd reason, to make a mockery of his post with his Emma Barnett cracks)

He said she's lovely - how is that making a mockery of criticism of treatment of women under islamist extremism? I know it's annoying when there is intense scrutiny of whether a woman is ****able (or not) if it's of no relevance, but this is just a very short little comment complimenting her. There is no indication of disrespecting women. I don't agree with going down the rabbit-hole of finding sexism in even the most innocuous of things and making a mockery of actual sexism, and also causing even more of a gender divide when we should be uniting

I see what you're saying otherwise - and don't disagree with much - but the below:

Watching how women are being stripped of choice and rights in some states in the US at present and if it continues at the same rate it won't take many years, especially if Trump is ousted and Pence takes his place, before they may be envying their counterparts in the Middle East.

"Envying"? Come on, what an insult to women in repressed societies in the Middle East. Women in the west still won't be whipped or stoned or jailed for being raped. And they can still speak out. That is not an endorsement or downplaying of what you envision by the way, but have perspective and compare like with like.

Widdershins

up for anything wrote: »

Nothing excuses the inhumane treatment of women in any culture, but the OP (who choose, for some odd reason, to make a mockery of his post with his Emma Barnett cracks) asked for insights into the psychology behind the treatment of women in particular areas. He seems to have left out India for some reason large and all as it is and I'm always suspicious of people's motives for posting solely about Islamic culture when such behaviour is seen in many other cultures, religions and countries and is not endemic to the Middle East and North Africa.

I posted those links to show that there are attitudes and cultures within so called modern countries with modern religions (is there such a thing) that are very similar but not yet as extreme or vicious. If the OP is baffled by these attitudes in other places, maybe he/she should look closer to home for answers that are easier to understand.

Watching how women are being stripped of choice and rights in some states in the US at present and if it continues at the same rate it won't take many years, especially if Trump is ousted and Pence takes his place, before they may be envying their counterparts in the Middle East.

Religion is just a front for control and it seems that the most prized control within a religion is sexual control over another person or persons and sexual control is at the top of the authority and restraint ladder over others and for anyone trying to control women that's the place to start.

I don't think any but the most uneducated in Islam (but sadly there are millions of them) at heart believe that women are second class, mentally, physically or in any way but it suits the ruling powers to propagate that view and religion is the best way but for the men who don't believe it is very difficult to give up the power. Nobody likes handing over power. Most normal people, unless they're actual psychopaths/sociopaths, living with others know the full capabilities of the other humans they live with and know that women are 'equal' to men. It is impossible not to realise it and perhaps be frightened by it.

And maybe I'm talking bollix and expressing myself terribly.

To the OP though and to quote the bible (because it suits me )

"Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the
mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?"

Matthew 7:4

There is a VERY large cohort of Muslims in India. It's an extremely strong religion in India and India has a flourishing Islamic culture. I don't think anyones ''leaving out'' India. Maybe you're making the mistake of thinking Indian troubles are '' a Hindu thing'' ?

The Tralee rape. Loudly condemned by the rest of Ireland and in no way normal for Ireland or Irish culture. Quite disturbing to compare them. Very naive.

DrPhilG

Widdershins wrote: »

There is a VERY large cohort of Muslims in India. It's an extremely strong religion in India and India has a flourishing Islamic culture. I don't think anyones ''leaving out'' India. Maybe you're making the mistake of thinking Indian troubles are '' a Hindu thing'' ?

India does have a strong Muslim population but in my experience it's the Hindus who are the most extremist fundamentalists at the minute.

patrickbrophy18

While Islamic beliefs are still behind when it comes to recognizing the fact that women are people too, I can also acknowledge the fact that most of the worlds key religious groups have used it as a means to repress women and still do.

I find it absolutely deplorable as it is a complete mockery of the concept. The inner feminist in me suspects that many of these religions have been tainted or tampered with by narcissistic misogynists who are incapable of thinking without their dicks.

The mere fact that they base this disparity of rights over an anatomical difference is just nonsensical not to mention offensive. I also see those who think less of people because of their gender as childish.

Back to the issue at hand, I don't think any particular religion is the problem but, rather those who are driving or leading it. In a not too dissimilar vain, the rampant child abuse by priests is another sickening example of the depravity and political meddling within the catholic faith.

As a result of these controversies, the religion in question looses all credibility and followers.

Widdershins

DrPhilG wrote: »

India does have a strong Muslim population but in my experience it's the Hindus who are the most extremist fundamentalists at the minute.

Your experience..?
I have to wonder if you've mixed the two up!
Ask a Hindu how they feel about it. Not only do they have ISIS causing trouble, they also have the likes of the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) of Pakistan. And remember many Indians are atheist, something which is acceptable to many Hindu. At least they try to keep the troublesome Hindus in check and maintain secularism.

DrPhilG

Widdershins wrote: »

Your experience..?
I have to wonder if you've mixed the two up!

Nope. Both groups have their issues but since the Hindu government came in 3 years ago it is becoming much more difficult for non Hindus.

Christian charity Compassion have been running child sponsorship in the country for 40 years but have just had to cease operating because the government are blocking their donations and persecuting their staff. Leaving thousands of sponsored kids now cut off. Why? Because they are a Christian charity and any charity with a religious base other than Hindu has been blocked from receiving foreign funding regardless of the charitable work they do.

People in the North are being beaten and even killed over accusations of killing cows or eating beef.

up for anything

Divelment wrote: »

Say what you want about Trump but Pence is a religiously inspired nutjob. He won't allow himself be in a room unaccompanied with another woman, that's up there with membership of the Iona Institute and other forms of serious religious indoctrination.

Exactly and that explains why I suggested that women in the US might envy their Middle Eastern counterparts in not too many years if he gets in.

Spider Web wrote: »

He said she's lovely - how is that making a mockery of criticism of treatment of women under islamist extremism? I know it's annoying when there is intense scrutiny of whether a woman is ****able (or not) if it's of no relevance, but this is just a very short little comment complimenting her. There is no indication of disrespecting women. I don't agree with going down the rabbit-hole of finding sexism in even the most innocuous of things and making a mockery of actual sexism, and also causing even more of a gender divide when we should be uniting

I see what you're saying otherwise - and don't disagree with much - but the below:

"Envying"? Come on, what an insult to women in repressed societies in the Middle East. Women in the west still won't be whipped or stoned or jailed for being raped. And they can still speak out. That is not an endorsement or downplaying of what you envision by the way, but have perspective and compare like with like.

I can see the disrespect especially when coupled with the topic of his thread and it struck me that he thought it was funny which is why he put it in the post. He may as well have come into a room asking a mixed group for opinions while slapping a woman on the ass in passing.

As for using the word envying, I said:

Watching how women are being stripped of choice and rights in some states in the US at present and if it continues at the same rate it won't take many years, especially if Trump is ousted and Pence takes his place, before they may be envying their counterparts in the Middle East.

I didn't say they are now or they would definitely be but that they may in years to come. On the heels of a fundamentalist Christian President, there surely would follow things like segregation, stoning, whipping, shaming, shunning etc. It's not so long ago that many of those things happened to women in the US. As another poster mentioned, he has spoken out about not being in the company of women without his wife. How insulting is that to half the people in his country. He's a bloody looper and history has illustrated time and time again what happens when deluded madmen take power, especially those with strong and extreme religious convictions.

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/jia-tolentino/mike-pences-marriage-and-the-beliefs-that-keep-women-from-power

Widdershins wrote: »

There is a VERY large cohort of Muslims in India. It's an extremely strong religion in India and India has a flourishing Islamic culture. I don't think anyones ''leaving out'' India. Maybe you're making the mistake of thinking Indian troubles are '' a Hindu thing'' ?

The Tralee rape. Loudly condemned by the rest of Ireland and in no way normal for Ireland or Irish culture. Quite disturbing to compare them. Very naive.

The OP left out India in his post. I wondered why. It seemed to me that he was thinking a certain way with no real clue about the religion or cultures he was looking for opinions on. I have no knowledge or particular stance on the troubles in India being "a Hindu thing". He also left out Indonesia and other African countries that have Muslim majorities.

I am not naive and I wasn't comparing the Tralee case with the plight of women in the Middle East. Why would you think that? I was saying that the attitudes towards women all over the world, even the so called civilised 'West' baffles me. There's Japan (not in the "West" obviously) - women only carriages on trains so that young girls and women are safe from being groped by random and multiple men - WTF! I've seen where the powers that be are wondering should trains in Britain adopt them as well. What about a certain Irish judge who gives light or suspended sentences to rapists/sexual assaulters along with ordering them to pay money to their victims, thereby adding insult to injury?

Widdershins

DrPhilG wrote: »

Nope. Both groups have their issues but since the Hindu government came in 3 years ago it is becoming much more difficult for non Hindus.

Christian charity Compassion have been running child sponsorship in the country for 40 years but have just had to cease operating because the government are blocking their donations and persecuting their staff. Leaving thousands of sponsored kids now cut off. Why? Because they are a Christian charity and any charity with a religious base other than Hindu has been blocked from receiving foreign funding regardless of the charitable work they do.

People in the North are being beaten and even killed over accusations of killing cows or eating beef.

That's not new. I'm just not sure how they are comparable to the Islamists. If it's a 'but they have their own homegrown bastards' point then of course, it's true. Still the lesser of two evils in a country that does strive for secularism.

suicide_circus

As a great man once said, looking at organised religions it becomes clear that not only are they man-made but indeed made by men.

Widdershins

up for anything wrote: »

Exactly and that explains why I suggested that women in the US might envy their Middle Eastern counterparts in not too many years if he gets in.



I can see the disrespect especially when coupled with the topic of his thread and it struck me that he thought it was funny which is why he put it in the post. He may as well have come into a room asking a mixed group for opinions while slapping a woman on the ass in passing.

As for using the word envying, I said:



I didn't say they are now or they would definitely be but that they may in years to come. On the heels of a fundamentalist Christian President, there surely would follow things like segregation, stoning, whipping, shaming, shunning etc. It's not so long ago that many of those things happened to women in the US. As another poster mentioned, he has spoken out about not being in the company of women without his wife. How insulting is that to half the people in his country. He's a bloody looper and history has illustrated time and time again what happens when deluded madmen take power, especially those with strong and extreme religious convictions.

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/jia-tolentino/mike-pences-marriage-and-the-beliefs-that-keep-women-from-power



The OP left out India in his post. I wondered why. It seemed to me that he was thinking a certain way with no real clue about the religion or cultures he was looking for opinions on. I have no knowledge or particular stance on the troubles in India being "a Hindu thing". He also left out Indonesia and other African countries that have Muslim majorities.

I am not naive and I wasn't comparing the Tralee case with the plight of women in the Middle East. Why would you think that? I was saying that the attitudes towards women all over the world, even the so called civilised 'West' baffles me. There's Japan (not in the "West" obviously) - women only carriages on trains so that young girls and women are safe from being groped by random and multiple men - WTF! I've seen where the powers that be are wondering should trains in Britain adopt them as well. What about a certain Irish judge who gives light or suspended sentences to rapists/sexual assaulters along with ordering them to pay money to their victims, thereby adding insult to injury?

Actually, sometimes I feel the same. I just hate when it's used to diminish worse things. Which you weren't doing. Sorry!

Benjamin Buttons

Widdershins wrote: »

Your experience..?
I have to wonder if you've mixed the two up!
Ask a Hindu how they feel about it. Not only do they have ISIS causing trouble, they also have the likes of the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) of Pakistan. And remember many Indians are atheist, something which is acceptable to many Hindu. At least they try to keep the troublesome Hindus in check and maintain secularism.

According to the 2012 WIN-Gallup Global Index of Religion and Atheism report, 81% of Indians were religious, 13% were not religious, 3% were convinced atheists, and 3% were unsure or did not respond.

Is 3% 'many', I wouldn't have thought so?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion_in_India

Widdershins

Benjamin Buttons wrote: »

According to the 2012 WIN-Gallup Global Index of Religion and Atheism report, 81% of Indians were religious, 13% were not religious, 3% were convinced atheists, and 3% were unsure or did not respond.

Is 3% 'many', I wouldn't have thought so?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion_in_India

Atheist or agnostic. ''Not religious'' is what I meant by ''Atheist''. In a huge population yes 16 % of non practising people is a good chunk that wouldn't exist openly if it was dominated by a religion as bad as the ISIS types. I mentioned it because it is 'allowed' in India, it isn't 'allowed' in Islamic countries with 'apostasy.

jmayo

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

While Islamic beliefs are still behind when it comes to recognizing the fact that women are people too, I can also acknowledge the fact that most of the worlds key religious groups have used it as a means to repress women and still do.

I find it absolutely deplorable as it is a complete mockery of the concept. The inner feminist in me suspects that many of these religions have been tainted or tampered with by narcissistic misogynists who are incapable of thinking without their dicks.

WTF is an inner feminist ?

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

The mere fact that they base this disparity of rights over an anatomical difference is just nonsensical not to mention offensive. I also see those who think less of people because of their gender as childish.

Back to the issue at hand, I don't think any particular religion is the problem but, rather those who are driving or leading it. In a not too dissimilar vain, the rampant child abuse by priests is another sickening example of the depravity and political meddling within the catholic faith.

Again to me this is excusitory bullshyte.
I hate this type of stuff and it is now quiet often seen in political discussions as well where when one party are caught doing wholesale corruption the following line is uttered "Shure aren't they all just as bad".

It is like saying one of the Kinehan henchmen is a murderer and then claiming you can't discuss that because someone you know was done for drunken driving.

Most religions are discriminatory in some fashion because they have grown out of the past where there wasn't any equality between the sexes.
How old are most of the established religions ?

But the religions more prevalent in the western world have moved on because the societies have moved on.

But one religion, you know the one we are discussing here, is fooking light years behind in terms of equality.
And it is slowly but surely coming to a town near you as we speak.
And the usual numpties are refusing to discuss it's utter shameful enshrined discrimination, but would rather discuss what the catholic chruch's clerics did up to a couple of decades ago or what a small crazy fringe christian church in southern USA is doing.
Navel gazing, quoting Matthew 7.3 or dragging in our abortion laws is not going to help anyone.

BTW someone earlier mentioned how discriminatory we are because we ban abortion and women have to go to UK for an abortion.
I do think the law is wrong, but that statement also reminds me we do allow our women travel (yes we did have some numpties trying to ban that at one stage) whereas someone could ask how easy it is for women in a lot of middle eastern islamic states to travel without their "owners" approval or accompaniment.

Why are some people so fecking afraid of talking about the camel sh*tting in the corner of the room ?
islam is toxic and downright medieval, whereas most other religions can be taken in some sort of piecemeal format and the old toxic parts ignored.

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

As a result of these controversies, the religion in question looses all credibility and followers.

Except if anything the more devout, the more misogynistic, the more discriminatory islam is the one that is flourishing at the expense of the more relaxed and more liberal ones.

Benjamin Buttons wrote: »

According to the 2012 WIN-Gallup Global Index of Religion and Atheism report, 81% of Indians were religious, 13% were not religious, 3% were convinced atheists, and 3% were unsure or did not respond.

Is 3% 'many', I wouldn't have thought so?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion_in_India

3% of 1.263 billion people (2012 estimates) equates to 37,890,000 people afaik.
Over 37 million people convinced atheists.
Where would that population rank as an EU country I wonder ?

Captain Obvious

What's this weird perception that western religions have moved on? The Catholic church is still firmly against homosexuality, female priests and reproductive rights. The problem with Islam isn't the beliefs or teachings, which are no worse than what you would find in the Bible, it's the number of fundamentalists who use Islam to enforce their own authority.

JupiterKid

I had to go to A+E on Friday with a medical issue and was seen by a lovely female Muslim doctor in a headscarf. She was very helpful and just being a doctor shows that many Islamic families value the education of their daughters very highly.

When I was in college in the 1990s many medical and dentistry students were Muslim females. Just because many Islamic people, particularly in places like Pakistan and Afghanistan don't value the education of girls doesn't mean that they all do.

But this still does not excuse the treatment of women in many Islamic societies, particularly in Saudi and other Middle East countries.

Grayson

DrPhilG wrote: »

Nope. Both groups have their issues but since the Hindu government came in 3 years ago it is becoming much more difficult for non Hindus.

Christian charity Compassion have been running child sponsorship in the country for 40 years but have just had to cease operating because the government are blocking their donations and persecuting their staff. Leaving thousands of sponsored kids now cut off. Why? Because they are a Christian charity and any charity with a religious base other than Hindu has been blocked from receiving foreign funding regardless of the charitable work they do.

People in the North are being beaten and even killed over accusations of killing cows or eating beef.

The current PM even oversaw riots against muslims.

For all the talk about child grooming gangs in the UK (Which are bad, I'm not denying it), its far worse in India.

Hell, they even have "Religious prostitutes"

Grayson

Captain Obvious wrote: »

What's this weird perception that western religions have moved on? The Catholic church is still firmly against homosexuality, female priests and reproductive rights. The problem with Islam isn't the beliefs or teachings, which are no worse than what you would find in the Bible, it's the number of fundamentalists who use Islam to enforce their own authority.

And that's generally tied to the local culture and society.
A good example is FGM. In societies where it's practiced both christians and muslims practice it. It has nothing to do with either religion but because most of these places are muslim majority it's identified as a "muslim" issue, even though it has nothing to do with the religion.

Widdershins

Grayson wrote: »

The current PM even oversaw riots against muslims.

For all the talk about child grooming gangs in the UK (Which are bad, I'm not denying it), its far worse in India.

Hell, they even have "Religious prostitutes"

If it's worse in India what's it like in Pakistan? Who's responsible? You're muddling the Hindu influenced government with non political rape gangs?

And there's reasons for the tension with Muslims there.

Grayson

Widdershins wrote: »

If it's worse in India what's it like in Pakistan? Who's responsible? You're muddling the Hindu influenced government with non political rape gangs?

I think you're mixing stuff up.

Hindu's went riot and killed loads of muslims. A hindu politician did nothing about it.

Hindu's have religious prostitution. There's also an issue with rape and child rape in the country. Not to mention female foeticide.

You're trying to say that the riots had nothing to do with religion, they were political because a politician was involved. They weren't political. They were religious pogroms.

And for some reason you can see stuff like religious prostitution in India and rather than saying "That's bad" you need to say "What about Pakistan".


And now you add "there's a reason for tensions with muslims there". So you're saying it was the muslims fault.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Gujarat_riots

In the aftermath of the violence, it became clear that many attacks were focused not only on Muslim populations, but also on Muslim women and children. Organizations such as Human Rights Watch criticised the Indian government and the Gujarat state administration for failure to address the resulting humanitarian condition of victims who fled their homes for relief camps during the violence, the "overwhelming majority of them Muslim."[74] According to Teesta Setalvad on 28 February in the districts of Morjari Chowk and Charodia Chowk in Ahmedabad of all forty people who had been killed by police shooting were Muslim.[75] An international fact-finding committee formed of all women international experts from US, UK, France, Germany and Sri Lanka reported, "sexual violence was being used as a strategy for terrorizing women belonging to minority community in the state."[76]

It is estimated that at least two-hundred and fifty girls and women were gang raped and then burned to death.[77] Children were force fed petrol and then set on fire,[78] pregnant women were gutted and then had their unborn child's body shown to them. In the Naroda Patiya mass grave of ninety-six bodies, forty-six were women. Rioters also flooded homes and electrocuted entire families inside.[79] Violence against women also included them being stripped naked, violated with objects, and then killed. According to Kalpana Kannabiran the rapes were part of a well-organized, deliberate and pre-planned strategy, and which facts place the violence into the categories of political pogrom and genocide.[80] Other acts of violence against women included acid attacks, beatings and the killing of women who were pregnant. Children were also killed in front of their parents.[81] George Fernandes in a discussion in parliament on the violence caused widespread furor in his defense of the state government, saying that this was not the first time that women had been violated and raped in India.[82]

Children were killed by being burnt alive and those who dug the mass graves described the bodies interred within them as "burned and butchered beyond recognition."[83] Children and infants were speared and held aloft before being thrown into fires.[84] Describing the sexual violence perpetrated against Muslim women and girls, Renu Khanna writes that the survivors reported that it "consisted of forced nudity, mass rapes, gang-rapes, mutilation, insertion of objects into bodies, cutting of breasts, slitting the stomach and reproductive organs, and carving of Hindu religious symbols on women's body parts."[85] The Concerned Citizens' Tribunal, characterised the use of rape "as an instrument for the subjugation and humiliation of a community."[85] Testimony heard by the committee stated that:

tell me how that's justified. Tell me what those women and children did to deserve that. Seriously, tell me.