Most overrated band ever - The Stone Roses

kunst nugget

PGE1970 wrote: »

Very good documentary, Blood on the turntable, covering this subject.

If you are a Roses fan, you will not take too well to their manager at that time!

Well worth a watch.

Yeah, seen that. The manager was an absolute pleb.

Check out the Shane Meadows documentary Made of Stone made around the time of the reunion. I had no interest in the concerts but it's nice seeing the band reconnecting with each other.

RDM_83 again

AllGunsBlazing wrote: »

Was never a fan of Stone Roses, but to say they were overrated is too much. They never achieved that status where they seemed to be everyone's favourite band - and to be fair they never chased after it either.

Big enough in the UK and a cult following abroad, but that's it.


Oasis, on the other hand.....

I don't think calling the Stone Roses over rated is a stretch at all, the fact that they weren't everybody's favourite band doesn't change that.
They had a very good debut album, that's it. You mention Oasis in your post, this is a perfect example of it, Oasis had a very good debut album and then a very good follow up (after that point I will admit it gets very mixed-but they were very influencial), by the measures used for the Stone Roses Oasis should never ever be considered over rated yet that's actually a pretty popular opinion. My take on it is that the Stone Roses maintain their over rated aspect because they are/were a big enough band that most people would have heard of but they screwed up so much they managed to maintain their indie appeal
E.g like they got just mainstream enough.
I was too young at the time but maybe the older posters have an opinion on the claim that the were instrumental in changing the "scene", personally that sounds like hype Primal Scream debuted at the same time with a savage album with a IMO more influencial sound, year later Insperal Carpets were releasing stuff these changes were obviously a wider shift.
It's also interesting those two bands get far less love than the Stone Roses also Suede (bit later) also seem to get very little love

kunst nugget

RDM_83 again wrote: »

I don't think calling the Stone Roses over rated is a stretch at all, the fact that they weren't everybody's favourite band doesn't change that.
They had a very good debut album, that's it. You mention Oasis in your post, this is a perfect example of it, Oasis had a very good debut album and then a very good follow up (after that point I will admit it gets very mixed-but they were very influencial), by the measures used for the Stone Roses Oasis should never ever be considered over rated yet that's actually a pretty popular opinion. My take on it is that the Stone Roses maintain their over rated aspect because they are/were a big enough band that most people would have heard of but they screwed up so much they managed to maintain their indie appeal
E.g like they got just mainstream enough.
I was too young at the time but maybe the older posters have an opinion on the claim that the were instrumental in changing the "scene", personally that sounds like hype Primal Scream debuted at the same time with a savage album with a IMO more influencial sound, year later Insperal Carpets were releasing stuff these changes were obviously a wider shift.
It's also interesting those two bands get far less love than the Stone Roses also Suede (bit later) also seem to get very little love

The Stone Roses, along with the Happy Mondays and Primal Scream, completely shifted the music scene in Britain and indelibly made Indie a style of music rather than just a method of distribution. Before them Indie was the Smiths, punk and the twee aesthetic of the C86 scene (which you would still see in the likes of Belle and Sebastian). In their wake, thousand of bands formed, mostly mediocre, that tried to ape their attitude and sound. It is easy to say they are overrated now but the difference they made to English music was immense. Bands like Oasis were extraordinarily indebted to the Stone Roses.

TheDoc

eviltimeban wrote: »

Another one for me, ahem, would be David Bowie. I just never "got" Bowie so to me I find him over-rated as I've never heard a Bowie song or album that's made me go "woh". Saying that I don't mind Jean Genie and Starman. But it's just 70's glam to me. I'd much rather T-Rex and would rate Bolan higher than Bowie.

Crux of all these discussion and barstool debates, it's all based on opinion and there is no truely "overrated" something as someone perfectly values it.

But Bowie being called overrated would be one of the most edge opinions I've ever heard regarding the "overrated" music stuff.

U2 are definitely one for me. Bono is a poor singer for me barely understandable at times and just poor, and Edge I find a pretty one dimensional guitarist. They had a good album, one or two good songs since and seemed to live of that initial exposure.

Of course people will disagree, they sell out gigs across the world, but I've never gone out of my way to listen to them and I don't even know what genre I'd call them.

Seeing mentions about The Doors, Bowie, Beatles, Bob Dylan and some other tremendously influential bands or artists described as over rated is a bit mad. Just waiting for someone to mention Prince before I perfectly understand why popular music is the way it is today

PGE1970

RDM_83 again wrote: »

I don't think calling the Stone Roses over rated is a stretch at all, the fact that they weren't everybody's favourite band doesn't change that.
They had a very good debut album, that's it. You mention Oasis in your post, this is a perfect example of it, Oasis had a very good debut album and then a very good follow up (after that point I will admit it gets very mixed-but they were very influencial), by the measures used for the Stone Roses Oasis should never ever be considered over rated yet that's actually a pretty popular opinion. My take on it is that the Stone Roses maintain their over rated aspect because they are/were a big enough band that most people would have heard of but they screwed up so much they managed to maintain their indie appeal
E.g like they got just mainstream enough.
I was too young at the time but maybe the older posters have an opinion on the claim that the were instrumental in changing the "scene", personally that sounds like hype Primal Scream debuted at the same time with a savage album with a IMO more influencial sound, year later Insperal Carpets were releasing stuff these changes were obviously a wider shift.
It's also interesting those two bands get far less love than the Stone Roses also Suede (bit later) also seem to get very little love

I'm 47 so was around for all of those bands.

I also love all of them and would disagree, somewhat, that Suede and Primal Scream were undervalued. Perhaps a little by Kylie & SAW music fans but not by those into indie. Screamadelica is on my go to list of albums.

The Carpets were a little more niche. They came before Suede & Primal Scream and were around at the same time as the Roses. Noel Gallagher was a roadie for them. I loved the Carpets and I'm going to see Tom Hingley play in October.

My opinion is that the Roses defintely had a huge effect on music at that time. It was all Jason, Kylie etc in 1988/1989 until the Roses, Happy Mondays, The Farm, The Soup Dragons etc brought the manchester sound alive. The Roses were always a little different, a bit more melodic and you can hear the influence of The Byrds, the Beach Boys etc in their melodies. In John Squire, they also had a guitarist who is right up there. With the Madchester scene, it was about the beat and the, cough, recreational elements of the music.

Throw in the renaissance of New Order at that time and the advent of rave music etc, it was a good time for music.

JaCrispy

Nailz wrote: »

Radiohead and Muse.

Ah here. This thread has gone full on retard.

PGE1970

kunst nugget wrote: »

The Stone Roses, along with the Happy Mondays and Primal Scream, completely shifted the music scene in Britain and indelibly made Indie a style of music rather than just a method of distribution. Before them Indie was the Smiths, punk and the twee aesthetic of the C86 scene (which you would still see in the likes of Belle and Sebastian). In their wake, thousand of bands formed, mostly mediocre, that tried to ape their attitude and sound. It is easy to say they are overrated now but the difference they made to English music was immense. Bands like Oasis were extraordinarily indebted to the Stone Roses.

Absolutely agree.

I would say, however, that indie developed around the time of the Smiths and I would include acts like the Jesus & Mary Chain, The Cure, Prefab Sprout (When love breaks down still gets to me!), Lloyd Cole etc. All early to mid 80s.

There is no doubt that Oasis were influenced by bands such as these because of geography (many based in NW England) and style. Also, a great debt is owed to Tony Wilson who formed Factory Records and opened the Hacienda (with New Order). They gave bands like these an opening and a route to the market. Noel Gallagher got a real break when Johnny Marr gave him a fender!

Both Johnny Marr and Peter Hook's books are a great read. Hook's, in particular, is astonishing given that the Hacienda bankrupted them all despite being packed 4 nights a week!

Ash.J.Williams

Syphonax wrote: »

Never liked Anthrax, how they became one of the Big 4 is a mystery to me, surely Sepultura where overlooked there

The big 4 is a geographical thing too... Bay area thrash. That would rule out sepultura...

Sepultura were f**kin amazing though.. Better than anthrax

Ash.J.Williams

PGE1970 wrote: »

Absolutely agree.

I would say, however, that indie developed around the time of the Smiths and I would include acts like the Jesus & Mary Chain, The Cure, Prefab Sprout (When love breaks down still gets to me!), Lloyd Cole etc. All early to mid 80s.

There is no doubt that Oasis were influenced by bands such as these because of geography (many based in NW England) and style. Also, a great debt is owed to Tony Wilson who formed Factory Records and opened the Hacienda (with New Order). They gave bands like these an opening and a route to the market. Noel Gallagher got a real break when Johnny Marr gave him a fender!

Both Johnny Marr and Peter Hook's books are a great read. Hook's, in particular, is astonishing given that the Hacienda bankrupted them all despite being packed 4 nights a week!

It was a les paul which he broke and johnny being the sound lad he is replaced that one too... (with the Queen is dead les Paul of all things)

PGE1970

It was Ash, you're right!!

Gig was in Newcastle if memory serves me right.

What a guitar to give away!

hcass

TheDoc wrote: »

Seeing mentions about The Doors, Bowie, Beatles, Bob Dylan and some other tremendously influential bands or artists described as over rated is a bit mad. Just waiting for someone to mention Prince before I perfectly understand why popular music is the way it is today

How you can put The Doors in the same vein as Bowie, Dylan and The Beatles is beyond me.

I read this today while inspired by this thread I was looking into overrated bands on the interweb and it rings true (for me anyways...) The Doors are number 2 - scroll up and read the truth!
http://www.waxandwanemusic.com/features/2014/11/17the-ten-most-overrated-bands-of-all-time

andekwarhola

JaCrispy wrote: »

Ah here. This thread has gone full on retard.

Any thread where personal taste is presented as objective evidence of worth was already full retard.

PGE1970

Interesting list. Some good shouts there. The Eagles make my ears bleed!

I forgot Eric Clapton. That is a good call. I'd lump Genesis (and any of their offshoots) in there too.

Radiohead should not be on it and I think that the Pistols should also not be on it because of the cultural effect that they had e.g. being No1 when there was no No1 in the charts because of God Save the Queen!

Ditto Nirvana because of the effect on a type of emerging music. If you want to listen to a decent alternative, listen to That Petrol Emotion. Irish group, borne from the Undertones, with a Seattle singer. Chemicrazy is pure quality.

tony 2 tone

Duran Duran.

Yamanoto

Stone Roses

Johnny Cash

Rolling Stones

Springsteen

Leonard Cohen

The Smiths

Jimi Hendrix

tony 2 tone

tony 2 tone wrote: »

Duran Duran.

Duran Duran never really achieved much critical acclaim during their heyday. They had some decent singles, Save a Prayer, the Reflex, Hungry Like the Wolf, Rio, and thought View to a Kill was one of the better Bond themes. But they were primarily driven by image and were astute enough to capitalise on the importance of good videos in the new MTV era.

mikeybrennan

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Most overrated post ever

Hotblack Desiato

RHCP.

You dreaded it if a band you liked ended up on the same bill as RHCP. It was a guarantee of pished-up bare-chested 16 year old skangers causing trouble. Problem was that most decent 90s bands got lumped into the same bill as those talentless tossers, and their tosser fans, more often than not, so you had to suck it up. Apart from them the 90s was the best decade in music ever...

Will I Am Not

Hey this band is overrated because I don't like them but loads of other people do.

dasdog

Some glorious hatred of Muse, Kings of Leon, Boaan Jovee, Shyity Peppers and arena level USA nonsense. Most underrated band in the world would make a better thread.

dok_golf

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

John Squire - arguably the greatest guitarist of his generation.

Reni - arguably the greatest drummer of his generation, but a bit of an arse.

Mani - bassist with 2 of the biggest bands in the 90s.

Ian Brown - a dodgy singer but as a performer he is a fantastic frontman.

Overrated indeed.

No arguably that Reni IS the best drummer since John Bonham.😎

Arghus

dasdog wrote: »

Some glorious hatred of Muse, Kings of Leon, Boaan Jovee, Shyity Peppers and arena level USA nonsense. Most underrated band in the world would make a better thread.

It's been done.

The roses' attitude and look certainly chimed with the Madchester movement, and I guess they are/were cool in a 'don't give a fook' kind of way. But I think their music only really works in a live, singalong kind of environment, and has dated badly.

For me, file alongside Primal Scream as the kind of band where attitude trumps songwriting.

PTH2009

Prob going to get slaughtered but I think Ronnie Drew was slightly overrated but it's prob his grumpy style of singing that made him sound average

I remember he passed away the day before Waterford played Tipp in an AI semi final in 2008 and Waterford went on to win the game and at the end of the game his version of the parting glass sounded from the PA with his picture on the big screens, great moment. I'm almost sure the Dubs played the day he died ?

PTH2009

PTH2009 wrote: »

I'm almost sure the Dubs played the day he died in Croke Park??

Well if he was in Croke Park, presume the Dubs were playing...

Anesthetize

I'd probably go with Interpol.

It's not that I haven't tried to get into them. Turn on the Bright Lights gets lauded as one of the great albums of the 00's, but any time I've given it a go it just comes across as boring and uninspired.

Benjamin Buttons

PTH2009 wrote: »

Prob going to get slaughtered but I think Ronnie Drew was slightly overrated but it's prob his grumpy style of singing that made him sound average

I remember he passed away the day before Waterford played Tipp in an AI semi final in 2008 and Waterford went on to win the game and at the end of the game his version of the parting glass sounded from the PA with his picture on the big screens, great moment. I'm almost sure the Dubs played the day he died in Croke Park??

To suggest that Ronnie Drew is the most overrated band ever is pushing it, and like 'Conor74' I was totally unaware that he actually 'checked out' in Croke Park. Link?

Arne_Saknussem

Arghus wrote: »

To be honest, I think The Stone Roses are as good an answer as I can think of to this hoary old question. But there's also Neutral Milk Hotel -

I don't hate them. How could I - I want to Be Adored, I Am The Resurrection, Waterfall - those are some bona fide indisputable classics; cracking tunes from a really great band. But, I'm sorry, they are simply not one of the greatest bands of all time - which was something that was and still is said frequently enough, especially around the time of their reformation. I had a friend that used to swear blind they were better than The Beatles. Jesus Christ - I know music is all about subjective taste and all that malarkey, but that's as close to an objective falsehood as you're ever likely to hear. They didn't leave a truly great legacy as far as I'm concerned: one classic album and another that honestly very, very few talk about today. I'm not saying that they are a bad band, but just they have no business being up in there in conversations about "the greatest", amongst the truly legendary bands of the sixties, seventies and onwards. They are overrated.

Neutral Milk Hotel released In The Aeroplane Over The Sea back in 1998 and it took 10 years for that album's reputation to balloon to a point of ludicrousness. I will concede that The Stone Roses - while being overrated - at least were good: NMH, on the other hand, are terrible. Jeff Magnum's excruciatingly loud, out of tune and corny bellowing makes me wish I was deaf whenever I have the misfortune to hear it. Christ, an absolute stinker of a band.

When it comes to more "modern" bands I'd have to put The National up there. They are widely beloved, but they do absolutely nothing for me. I find them boring, morose and slow.

But to get onto the real pressing issue of The Thread: favourite metal album. It's a tough choice between ...And Justice For All or Reign In Blood. I love how cold ...AJFA feels. It's, by far, Metallica's most genuinely angry album. But it's a cold, simmering anger. And when you mix that with their most ambitious musicianship ever, you get something terrifying, but also awe inspiring: love that album. I'd probably have to vote for RIB over it though, just. Evil never sounded like so much fun. And that opening screech that turns into a roar that Tom Araya does right at the beginning of Angel of Death get's me going each and every time.

Agree with almost everything you've said here until you get to the part about Metallica, who've always come across as a bit of a cartoon band who can't possibly be taken seriously.

HurlingRanker

So pretty much any band that's ever had a modicum of mainstream success is overrated according to this thread. Thread should be renamed "Bands you don't like that many other people do"

mikeybrennan

Christy Moore