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Is an electric an option

  • 15-08-2017 5:51am
    #1
    freddie1970
    Registered Users Posts: 519 ✭✭✭


    Hi ..im presently doing a 140km round trip to work everyday and my partner 160km we are both spending 130 a week on diesel over 500 a month ..im just wondering would electric car be viable in our case.and would they represent much of a saving ..with the distance we travel we would have to insure that they could do over 160 with out charging


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Comments

  • #2
    bmwguy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,006 ✭✭✭bmwguy


    Have a look at Hyundai ioniq and see what you think. Plenty of threads on them here and a few owners. It might do what you are looking for, but it's tight.


  • #3
    tedpan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,627 ✭✭✭tedpan


    Hmmm, you're right on the limit with 160km. I have a 2015 leaf and it does a 110km round trip, would maybe have another 10km range. The 2016/17 updated leaf may do a 160km round trip.

    I'm guessing you'll be waiting until Q4.2017/Q1.2018 when many manufacturers will be releasing cars with much further range(300-400km)

    Also note that the car companies will advertise a much higher range. I'd remove 20-30% of their estimate to give a more accurate travelling distance.


  • #4
    freddie1970
    Registered Users Posts: 519 ✭✭✭freddie1970


    Am i right in thinking the leaf goes a little further than the ioniq ..if i could charge at work it would work id say


  • #5
    mel.b
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭mel.b


    What are the roads like - motorway or regional roads? I got 185km from my 30kwh leaf the other day all on regional roads but on motorways you'll struggle (in a leaf). Any chance you can get chargers installed at your work? Otheriwse look at the Ioniq which has more range than the leaf, wait for for new leaf to come out (likely early 2018) or there is the Zoe if you want a small car.


  • #6
    mel.b
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭mel.b


    freddie1970 wrote: »
    Am i right in thinking the leaf goes a little further than the ioniq ..if i could charge at work it would work id say


    Other way around, although new leaf coming that should go further.


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  • #7
    peposhi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭peposhi


    freddie1970 wrote: »
    Am i right in thinking the leaf goes a little further than the ioniq ..if i could charge at work it would work id say

    The new 40kw Leaf that's coming in September would be with a longer range than the current Ioniq. The current 30kw Leaf is way below compared to a 30kw Ioniq.

    If you could charge at work any 24kw Leaf from 141 onwards (+ some 132) would work perfect for you.
    Any 30kw Leaf from 161 onwards (+ some 152) would work better.

    Ioniq or 40kw Zoe is your best option currently even without work charging facility.

    Depending on the budget available - options are there and they suit your commute to a certain (good) extent.


  • #8
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Ioniq is probably your best option, unless you want a small car in which case the ZE40 Zoe is a great choice too.

    30kWh leaf could also be a choice but (from reports online) you'd be at the edge of the range every day at 160km.


  • #9
    reboot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭reboot


    You may find the range of the Zoe falls by as much as 20% in winter, although it will charge in half the time it takes for a Leaf, at 22 kva street CPs.


  • #10
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    reboot wrote: »
    You may find the range of the Zoe falls by as much as 20% in winter, although it will charge in half the time it takes for a Leaf, at 22 kva street CPs.
    Depending on the leaf and Zoe.
    22kWh Zoe can charge at 22kW from a SCP, leaf can charge at either 3.3 or 6.6kW. So it's more like a third or a fifth of the time!


  • #11
    Soarer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,980 ✭✭✭Soarer


    It'll all depend on the roads you're traveling on. If it's regional roads, you should be able to do it handy enough in both the 30 kWh Leaf and the Ioniq. If it's motorway, the Ioniq is probably your only option until the new Leaf comes out.

    That said, even if you only had an extension lead and a granny cable, you could charge it for a few hours in work to get you home.

    Whatever you do, don't buy a new current model Leaf in the next few months. With the new one being released, there'll be discounts on the current one as well as the option of the newer one. Plus Nissan should still be giving €4k scrappage.
    You'll be waiting a couple of months for an Ioniq if you go that route, what with Hyundai's supply issues.


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  • #12
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,152 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Soarer wrote: »
    Whatever you do, don't buy a new current model Leaf in the next few months. With the new one being released, there'll be discounts on the current one as well as the option of the newer one. Plus Nissan should still be giving €4k scrappage.

    I doubt any Irish dealers are holding stock of new Leaf's and it appears (from the UK forums) that the current Leaf is already short on stock (only certain models/specs available) so there might be little or no deals on the current Leaf when the new one comes out.

    The €4k scrappage isn't a dead cert either. Their current €4k scrappage deal , for instance, doesn't apply to the new Micra (according to their website its only €1500) so if the new Leaf is popular they won't have an incentive to give you €4k off, particularly when Ioniq is short on supply leaving the Leaf with the EV market more or less to itself.

    I'd still agree with you though, don't buy a new one now with the new Leaf about to be revealed.


  • #13
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    freddie1970 wrote: »
    Hi ..im presently doing a 140km round trip to work everyday and my partner 160km we are both spending 130 a week on diesel over 500 a month ..im just wondering would electric car be viable in our case.and would they represent much of a saving ..with the distance we travel we would have to insure that they could do over 160 with out charging
    You'll need work charging with the current models and if you have that a second hand leaf is a good option. Otherwise I'd recommend waiting as it will be too stressful to be driving to the edge of range daily.

    I don't know what you are driving, but if you're trading up from old diesel cars to new electric, what you're not paying in fuel you'll pay in depreciation.


  • #14
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,152 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    I don't know what you are driving, but if you're trading up from old diesel cars to new electric, what you're not paying in fuel you'll pay in depreciation.

    Its not as simple as that though, is it. You are giving the impression that depreciation on EV is significantly higher than ICE, when its not. It depends on how long he plans to keep the car. Depreciation is a fact of life for any car (ICE or EV).

    Put another way, if he decides to stick with ICE and buy a new one of those he is still going to be hit with depreciation.

    His commute is significant and the fuel and maintenance savings are also significant. If he keeps the EV for any reasonable length of time he will be quids in.

    I agree though that work charging would make his choices much better and the whole experience would be stress free. I'd start with getting an answer to that and then proceed from there.


  • #15
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    KCross wrote: »
    Its not as simple as that though, is it. You are giving the impression that depreciation on EV is significantly higher than ICE, when its not. It depends on how long he plans to keep the car. Depreciation is a fact of life for any car (ICE or EV).

    Put another way, if he decides to stick with ICE and buy a new one of those he is still going to be hit with depreciation.

    His commute is significant and the fuel and maintenance savings are also significant. If he keeps the EV for any reasonable length of time he will be quids in.

    I agree though that work charging would make his choices much better and the whole experience would be stress free. I'd start with getting an answer to that and then proceed from there.

    If you actually read what I wrote I said from old diesel to new electric. If it was suggested he should buy a new diesel over an old one for better fuel economy I'd be saying the exact same.

    For the vast majority of drivers, buying new or nearly new will rarely save them money. People buy new for lots of legitimate reasons, and I have no problem with that, but you don't buy new to save money.

    The OPs objective here is saving money, and the best car to meet that brief for near immediate savings is a second hand leaf. For that to work, work charging would be essential.


  • #16
    Soarer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,980 ✭✭✭Soarer


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    For that to work, work charging would be essential.

    No it wouldn't. It'll depend on the journey involved.

    mel.b posted above that she got 185km from her 30kWh on regional roads. An actual EV owner giving real world experience. Your opinions and guesswork only confuse matters.


  • #17
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    Soarer wrote: »
    No it wouldn't. It'll depend on the journey involved.

    mel.b posted above that she got 185km from her 30kWh on regional roads. An actual EV owner giving real world experience. Your opinions and guesswork only confuse matters.

    So one drive, not taking into account the weather or time of day is the basis of giving advice to someone who might be driving this for commuting?

    Well forgive me for being a conservative realist. It's not controversial so say setting out on a 160km journey in a leaf is a bit of a gamble. Don't oversell the car.


  • #18
    macnab
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,505 ✭✭✭macnab


    Electric vehicles have better range in summer than in winter, partially due to batteries not liking cold and partially due to cabin heating.
    My 30kw Leaf will just about do 160km summer driving on motorways at 120kmph, it will just about do 190km on B roads at 80 to 100kmph.
    In winter the motorway range can drop to 135km depending on how hilly the terrain and how aggressive i drive.
    If you drive behind other traffic and resist overtaking my range can increase by as much as 40km on a full charge.
    As for costs, 160km will cost you about €120 a month if you drive fast and pay 20c per kwh for electricity, or about €95 if you take it handy.
    If you use night rate electricity you will halve both those figures.
    And if you can get a work charger installed you could in thoery reduce your fuel bill to zero, although as 160km is a bit tight for a 30kw leaf you would probably top up the battery at home which could cost you €10 or €20 a month.


  • #19
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,163 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    freddie1970 wrote: »
    Hi ..im presently doing a 140km round trip to work everyday and my partner 160km we are both spending 130 a week on diesel over 500 a month ..im just wondering would electric car be viable in our case.and would they represent much of a saving ..with the distance we travel we would have to insure that they could do over 160 with out charging

    freddie1970, you sound like an ideal candidate for an EV.

    The Hyundai Ioniq should be able to do your 140km commute no bother and you will save a fortune on fuel.

    Maybe leave your partner on the Diesel for now and then look at all the new options coming next year for your partner. The Ioniq would also be able to handle 160km, but depending on the roads and time of year might be cutting it close and require a quick top-up. The Leaf 2 coming next year and upgraded Ioniq, Kona, etc. should be able to handle your partners commute easily enough come next year.

    BTW I'm basing this all on the assumption that you have two separate cars and you are looking to replace both.


  • #20
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,152 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    If you actually read what I wrote I said from old diesel to new electric. If it was suggested he should buy a new diesel over an old one for better fuel economy I'd be saying the exact same.

    For the vast majority of drivers, buying new or nearly new will rarely save them money. People buy new for lots of legitimate reasons, and I have no problem with that, but you don't buy new to save money.

    The OPs objective here is saving money, and the best car to meet that brief for near immediate savings is a second hand leaf. For that to work, work charging would be essential.

    I read and understood what you wrote alright. I'm not taking a pop at you just clarifying that your post gave the impression that depreciation on EV was somehow different.

    I'm in agreement with you, for once!


  • #21
    Soarer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,980 ✭✭✭Soarer


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    So one drive, not taking into account the weather or time of day is the basis of giving advice to someone who might be driving this for commuting?

    Well forgive me for being a conservative realist. It's not controversial so say setting out on a 160km journey in a leaf is a bit of a gamble. Don't oversell the car.

    You said work charging is essential. I said it isn't, and gave an example.

    Don't start your usual ****e and derail the thread again.


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  • #22
    ei9go
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭ei9go


    The short answer to the initial question is that the 41 kWh Zoe can do either commute, summer or winter.

    Anything else as you can see from the thread has an if but or maybe.

    However, you need to make sure you get the 7 kWh charger with the Zoe or there are not enough "night rate" hours to charge to 100%


  • #23
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    I have eGolf and I get a minimum of 140km per day. Normally 150km and I could get more if I didn't drive like a looney.

    The new eGolf will go even further. It is more expensive than the other electric cars available but it is a beautiful car to drive. I have to be careful what I say here but it is a class above the other electric cars available.....

    As a lot of people on here have said it does depend on your driving

    At the moment the depreciation does not seem as high as other cars.

    I paid similar money for mine compared to diesel car.

    They are a rare beast, at current count I think there is 4 in Ireland including mine :p


  • #24
    thierry14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭thierry14


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    I have eGolf and I get a minimum of 140km per day. Normally 150km and I could get more if I didn't drive like a looney.

    The new eGolf will go even further. It is more expensive than the other electric cars available but it is a beautiful car to drive. I have to be careful what I say here but it is a class above the other electric cars available.....

    As a lot of people on here have said it does depend on your driving

    At the moment the depreciation does not seem as high as other cars.

    I paid similar money for mine compared to diesel car.

    They are a rare beast, at current count I think there is 4 in Ireland including mine :p

    What's the battery in the new e Golf? 44kwh?

    They seem cool and all but you don't get a lot for your money, drive train is weak ass ( 110bhp or so ? ) which annoys me, Golf 2.0tdi's are now making near 190bhp and they release an electric with barely over 100bhp, when Tesla have yokes that can eat Lambo's

    I don't know

    It's a jack of all trades, master of none for me.

    Just thrown together by VW

    i3 is way faster, better to drive

    Ioniq far more efficient, just as slow, but a lot cheaper and forward thinking imo, I like them.

    Leaf is old hat now, but even the new one has 150bhp and 40kwh battery for 25k

    Don't see what VW is doing better?

    Rare for a reason imo


  • #25
    thierry14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭thierry14


    bk wrote: »
    freddie1970, you sound like an ideal candidate for an EV.

    The Hyundai Ioniq should be able to do your 140km commute no bother and you will save a fortune on fuel.

    Maybe leave your partner on the Diesel for now and then look at all the new options coming next year for your partner. The Ioniq would also be able to handle 160km, but depending on the roads and time of year might be cutting it close and require a quick top-up. The Leaf 2 coming next year and upgraded Ioniq, Kona, etc. should be able to handle your partners commute easily enough come next year.

    BTW I'm basing this all on the assumption that you have two separate cars and you are looking to replace both.

    Agree

    OP has to go electric

    Save a fortune, car will pay for itself and perfect candidate for 2018's 40 -50 kwh ev's which do those journey's easy.


  • #26
    la ultima guagua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 226 ✭✭la ultima guagua


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    ......if I didn't drive like a looney......:p

    O/T but genuine question

    Are there any other BEV drivers here that dont drive in the fashion ?

    ( Sometimes it seems that MadLad, Unkel & DB@Y do it all the time :p )


  • #27
    Soarer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,980 ✭✭✭Soarer


    la ultima guagua wrote: »
    O/T but genuine question

    Are there any other BEV drivers here that dont drive in the fashion ?

    ( Sometimes it seems that MadLad, Unkel & DB@Y do it all the time :p )

    Me.

    I like to get up to speed relatively quickly, but from then, I like to try keep the power dot as close to neutral as possible.

    That's probably because my battery is only at 75% capacity, and my GoM is next to useless. Once I get a cheap android device, I'll LeafSpy it to the car, and I can keep an eye on actual percentage.


  • #28
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Soarer wrote: »
    Me.

    I like to get up to speed relatively quickly, but from then, I like to try keep the power dot as close to neutral as possible.

    That's probably because my battery is only at 75% capacity, and my GoM is next to useless. Once I get a cheap android device, I'll LeafSpy it to the car, and I can keep an eye on actual percentage.
    be wary though, that the battery will go to 0 before leafspy says.
    I generally find that I hit "0%" on the fast charger display when the leafspy SOC is showing 5-7% or more.
    The car does not allow you to access the full charge.


  • #29
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    thierry14 wrote: »
    What's the battery in the new e Golf? 44kwh?

    They seem cool and all but you don't get a lot for your money, drive train is weak ass ( 110bhp or so ? ) which annoys me, Golf 2.0tdi's are now making near 190bhp and they release an electric with barely over 100bhp, when Tesla have yokes that can eat Lambo's

    I don't know

    It's a jack of all trades, master of none for me.

    Just thrown together by VW

    i3 is way faster, better to drive

    Ioniq far more efficient, just as slow, but a lot cheaper and forward thinking imo, I like them.

    Leaf is old hat now, but even the new one has 150bhp and 40kwh battery for 25k

    Don't see what VW is doing better?

    Rare for a reason imo

    The eGolf comes with 35.8kWh battery.

    Have you driven one? no idea on the i3 but it is miles better than both the Leaf and the Ioniq to drive

    I had a 2ltr TDi Golf, not sure what Bhp but it was fast. The eGolf is nipper, handles better and far nicer to drive. The additional extra included is a bonus as well.

    Drive one and you will see what they are doing better.

    I mentioned rare but I should have said rare in Ireland. They are flying out the doors in every other country. The waiting list is huge for them but similar here to a new Tdi. I checked :p

    P.S A Tesla is 90k car, not sure how you can compare?


  • #30
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,936 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Nonsense. Ioniq can easily do 160km even if most of the commute is at motorway speeds, even in winter. OP should take one for a test drive, do his commute and report back here

    People who do a daily 160km commute will save a fortune in an EV. His weekly 130 in diesel will go down to 20 in electricity

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  • #31
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    unkel wrote: »
    Nonsense. Ioniq can easily do 160km even if most of the commute is at motorway speeds, even in winter. OP should take one for a test drive, do his commute and report back here

    People who do a daily 160km commute will save a fortune in an EV. His weekly 130 in diesel will go down to 20 in electricity

    Sure it could go to zero if you abuse the public charging network. 160km is still a little tight on the range even for the Ioniq, with not much of a comfort buffer.

    The OP is clearly cost conscious, recommending a brand new car is hardly a way to save money. He spends 3K in diesel per year yet you're recommending a car that will depreciate by €15k over three years?!

    Unless the OP has work charging or an appetite for depreciation there is little to be gained yet in moving to EV. All cost savings will be gobbled up by depreciation. The most cost effective thing to do would be to hold onto the current car unless it's failing. Maybe in 2 years look at a used Ioniq and if he's comfortable commuting essentially with the fuel light on for 2/3 of the time.


  • #32
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    Sure it could go to zero if you abuse the public charging network. 160km is still a little tight on the range even for the Ioniq, with not much of a comfort buffer.

    The OP is clearly cost conscious, recommending a brand new car is hardly a way to save money. He spends 3K in diesel per year yet you're recommending a car that will depreciate by €15k over three years?!

    Unless the OP has work charging or an appetite for depreciation there is little to be gained yet in moving to EV. All cost savings will be gobbled up by depreciation. The most cost effective thing to do would be to hold onto the current car unless it's failing. Maybe in 2 years look at a used Ioniq and if he's comfortable commuting essentially with the fuel light on for 2/3 of the time.

    A little tight? If I drive conservative in the eGolf I would get 160km. There is another drive in eGolf in Ireland and he is getting 12kWh per 100km and get close to 200km per day.

    That is real World numbers. I asked for a guide on Ioniq thread and everyone is above 200km.

    For a start depreciation is not that high. Based on the current market and changes to laws over the coming years the depreciation on diesel/petrol might be higher. I don't know and I can tell for certain you don't know.

    I think everyone that owns an electric car will say the plan is drive it into the ground, make a good saving and then start again. Something which is not really an option with a petrol/diesel car as it will cost you a small fortune in maintenance.

    In the 2 years you talk about the OP will have paid over 13k on fuel alone. Plus all the other bills on top of that. How does it not make sense to look at alternative?

    Your point about driving with fuel light on is just idiotic.


  • #33
    freddie1970
    Registered Users Posts: 519 ✭✭✭freddie1970


    I made a mistake my round trip is only 115km
    ..i reckon most ev would be ok for that am i right ?


  • #34
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    freddie1970 wrote: »
    I made a mistake my round trip is only 115km
    ..i reckon most ev would be ok for that am i right ?

    30kwh leaf would be a good option so. Plenty available in the UK for a good price.

    You are spending a lot on diesel and getting poor mileage. I wouldn't put more than €50 p/w to get 700km. Is there something with your current vehicle?


  • #35
    freddie1970
    Registered Users Posts: 519 ✭✭✭freddie1970


    I travel in and out nearly 7 days a week ..and also do more driving about town so it adds up


  • #36
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,163 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    freddie1970, The Hyundai Ioniq and 30kwh Leaf will all easily do your commute so.

    Worth checking them out and taking them for a test drive.


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  • #37
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,936 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    The OP is clearly cost conscious, recommending a brand new car is hardly a way to save money. He spends 3K in diesel per year yet you're recommending a car that will depreciate by €15k over three years?!


    I hope you are trolling. The alternative is that you must be unable to do some very basic sums. First of all he said he spends €130 on diesel a week, so €6.5k per year, not €3k

    You reckon you will be able to buy a 171 Ioniq for €10k in January 2020? That's just ridiculous, it will not happen. Want to still put money where your mouth is and bet money on it? Bet you won't

    But I'll indulge you. €5k saving in fuel a year if he buys an Ioniq. And €5k depreciation per year. Even if his current car is a zero value banger with no depreciation, the Ioniq will have further savings on maintenance, tax and insurance, more than offsetting the tiny opportunity costs of money of buying a new car (might even get 0% finance)

    So it is cheaper for him, total cost of ownership, to go out and buy a brand new Ioniq than to keep driving his old car.

    And if he keeps the car for longer than 3 years, the savings are significantly greater again.

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  • #38
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Wait until the new leaf is revealed on the 6th of September and that will be the one to get.

    I have a 2015 Leaf 24 Kwh and work charging and a 142 Km commute total, I get to work and back with between with about 25-40% and home roughly the same and that's driving up to 130 Kph.

    Work charging gives you a lot of options but the New leaf if buying new is definitely going to be the one to get.

    I will never advise anyone to rely on public charging for any commute after having to rely on the network for 9 months before I got work charging.

    I'm on PCP so depreciation is of little concern to me because the GFMV is the balloon payment is 12,500 and if it's worth less than that it's RCI Banque's problem not mine, If Its worth less I can renegotiate a cheaper lease for another year or offer to buy it for less than the GFMV or they can have it or hop into a new car.

    PCP means you pay the depreciation + interest for the agreed term. PCP deals on the current leaf are not so good now though but still offers a cheap low interest alternative to regular finance.


  • #39
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    freddie1970 wrote: »
    I made a mistake my round trip is only 115km
    ..i reckon most ev would be ok for that am i right ?

    As mentioned the eGolf I have is 26kWh battery and I easily do 150km with a heavy foot.

    The Leaf 30kw and Ioniq would have further range so both give you that extra distance.

    I am not sure about standard Leaf 1.5 version, I would think it would be ok as well. I can't remember what I got out of demo version but I would have done at least 120km per day on testing


  • #40
    Soarer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,980 ✭✭✭Soarer


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    30kwh leaf would be a good option so. Plenty available in the UK for a good price.

    You are spending a lot on diesel and getting poor mileage. I wouldn't put more than €50 p/w to get 700km. Is there something with your current vehicle?

    Didn't you previously say you get discounted company diesel, or something along those lines?

    So your 700km for €50 is irrelevant.

    Don't oversell your car.


  • #41
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    unkel wrote: »
    I hope you are trolling. The alternative is that you must be unable to do some very basic sums. First of all he said he spends €130 on diesel a week, so €6.5k per year, not €3k

    You reckon you will be able to buy a 171 Ioniq for €10k in January 2020? That's just ridiculous, it will not happen. Want to still put money where your mouth is and bet money on it? Bet you won't

    But I'll indulge you. €5k saving in fuel a year if he buys an Ioniq. And €5k depreciation per year. Even if his current car is a zero value banger with no depreciation, the Ioniq will have further savings on maintenance, tax and insurance, more than offsetting the tiny opportunity costs of money of buying a new car (might even get 0% finance)

    So it is cheaper for him, total cost of ownership, to go out and buy a brand new Ioniq than to keep driving his old car.

    And if he keeps the car for longer than 3 years, the savings are significantly greater again.

    Bets, oh please, :rolleyes:

    Based on the information in the OP and on my own ordinary mixed urban/motorway consumption figures of 1200-1400km/70l tank I had assumed that the fuel totals the OP gave were combined for both. Swapping out one car for electric will only see the diesel bill fall by half.

    If I've misunderstood, and the couple's combined bill is €1000/month for fuel then yes that changes the maths considerably. I'd be interested though in why the OP's car consumes so much diesel, but he knows his figures best and I won't question that. If it's the case that the OP and his partner are both spending 500p/m on diesel then it's a rather unique case where a new car (Ioniq) would be cost neutral. I still think it would have been a little tight on range, getting tighter as it gets older at 160km/day.

    In any case the OP is well inside 30kwh leaf territory, with his revised 115km/day. If it's a case of saving €500/mo by making the change it's a no brainier - although it's a shame the leaf is such an unappealing car. So rather than it being a cost neutral exercise, with a second hand leaf he will actually see savings accumulate rather than disappearing down a depreciation drain.


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  • #42
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    Soarer wrote: »
    Didn't you previously say you get discounted company diesel, or something along those lines?

    So your 700km for €50 is irrelevant.

    Don't oversell your car.

    I do, you've a good memory. But I also know diesel retails at about 120c/l today and I get between 1200 and 1400km for a 70l tank, so my worst case is just over 700km for €50.

    I would never oversell my car.


  • #43
    freddie1970
    Registered Users Posts: 519 ✭✭✭freddie1970


    I personally spend about 70 a week on diesel my missus spends anothet 70.she isnt considering a ev yet ..
    So it would be only a 70 a week saving ...
    What about a ioniq on pcp would i be penalised for high milage ...
    Has anyone driven one are they a nice car to drive compared to a diesel


  • #44
    Soarer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,980 ✭✭✭Soarer


    freddie1970 wrote: »
    I personally spend about 70 a week on diesel my missus spends anothet 70.she isnt considering a ev yet ..
    So it would be only a 70 a week saving ...
    What about a ioniq on pcp would i be penalised for high milage ...
    Has anyone driven one are they a nice car to drive compared to a diesel

    A few things freddie.
    Most of us on here that have replied to you (me, ELM327, mad_lad, Mel.b, Unkel, Kross, ShefWedFan, can't remember others) are all EV owners.
    Unkel has an Ioniq.
    ShefWedFan has an egolf.
    Everyone else listed has varying Leafs. Mine is a 75% capacity 24kWh version, all the way up to Mel.b and her near new 30kWh version.
    We all have real world experience of EV ownership, and there's not one person here will put you wrong.

    Converse to that, there's oppenheimer.
    This chap agrees that EVs are the future, but staunchly believes they've no use today. You can go back through all of his posts, not just on this thread, and you'll see he's always on one side of the fence arguing against EV owners, when he's never even had a test drive in one (I could be wronging him there).
    He's perfectly entitled to his opinion on here just like everyone else, and you're perfectly entitled to believe everything he posts.

    Just thought I'd give you some background.

    As for your Ioniq question...
    There are a few owners on here. Unkel being one. He'll try convince you its a cut price Tesla!;)
    They'll all tell you that the Ioniq will do 180kms @ 120kmh on the motorway. That's owners experience. Not an opinion.

    As for PCP, you'll only get punished if you plan on handing the car back. If you plan on keeping it, the mileage is irrelevant. Think mad_lad would be the PCP guru.

    Definitely wait a few weeks to see what the new Leaf brings. But with your new 115km round trip, you'd probably make that in a 24kwh Leaf.
    WE JUST NEED TO KNOW WHAT SORT OF ROAD YOU'RE DRIVING ON! ;)


  • #45
    650Ginge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 900 ✭✭✭650Ginge


    unkel wrote: »
    I hope you are trolling. The alternative is that you must be unable to do some very basic sums. First of all he said he spends €130 on diesel a week, so €6.5k per year, not €3k

    You reckon you will be able to buy a 171 Ioniq for €10k in January 2020? That's just ridiculous, it will not happen. Want to still put money where your mouth is and bet money on it? Bet you won't

    But I'll indulge you. €5k saving in fuel a year if he buys an Ioniq. And €5k depreciation per year. Even if his current car is a zero value banger with no depreciation, the Ioniq will have further savings on maintenance, tax and insurance, more than offsetting the tiny opportunity costs of money of buying a new car (might even get 0% finance)

    So it is cheaper for him, total cost of ownership, to go out and buy a brand new Ioniq than to keep driving his old car.

    And if he keeps the car for longer than 3 years, the savings are significantly greater again.

    To be fair the op can't count either. €130 a week....is probably equivalent to btween 80000 and more than 100000kms a year.

    But opeinhiemer has been tolling a while.

    Op you need to get you figures right on km per years and cost so these guys can give you a good strong financial based reply.


  • #46
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,936 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Soarer wrote: »
    He'll try convince you its a cut price Tesla!;)QUOTE]

    Poor man's Tesla :p

    My ads on adverts.ie

    https://www.adverts.ie/member/5856/ads



  • #47
    Soarer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,980 ✭✭✭Soarer


    650Ginge wrote: »
    To be fair the op can't count either. €130 a week....is probably equivalent to btween 80000 and more than 100000kms a year.

    Or maybe people don't understand! ;)

    The OP and his partner spend €130 per week between them.
    The OP does 115km roundtrip pretty much 7 days per week. Even averaging 6 days per week, that's still 36k kms per year just going to work. Surely he'd do another 4k kms per year faffing around, which brings him up to 40k kms per year.
    His partner does 160kms per day for work. Average that at 5 days per week, and that's over 41k kms per year with no faffing around.
    So that's 81k kms per year between them.

    I reckon the OP is well able to count.


  • #48
    650Ginge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 900 ✭✭✭650Ginge


    freddie1970 wrote: »
    Hi ..im presently doing a 140km round trip to work everyday and my partner 160km we are both spending 130 a week on diesel over 500 a month ..im just wondering would electric car be viable in our case.and would they represent much of a saving ..with the distance we travel we would have to insure that they could do over 160 with out charging
    Soarer wrote: »
    Or maybe people don't understand! ;)

    The OP and his partner spend €130 per week between them.
    The OP does 115km roundtrip pretty much 7 days per week. Even averaging 6 days per week, that's still 36k kms per year just going to work. Surely he'd do another 4k kms per year faffing around, which brings him up to 40k kms per year.
    His partner does 160kms per day for work. Average that at 5 days per week, and that's over 41k kms per year with no faffing around.
    So that's 81k kms per year between them.

    I reckon the OP is well able to count.

    Soarer I have no gripe with electric cars, but I don't have one, so I am not getting into the cost of them. I will leave that to those that do. But the OP's post above is ambiguous at least to me.

    In any case he chopped quite a bit off the kms in a later post. I think to get the best answer there must be reality in the figures....recording the real figures will give a much better answer to the prospective EV buyer than this guess work.

    Perhaps together we could all work on a spreadsheet that will work out the cost of an EV versus ICE. Whilst that will not stop incorrect and over inflated figures being put in it will allow people who are accurate to get an accurate answer.

    I am sure some of you already have such a spreadsheet and maybe we could make it public on google sheets.


  • #49
    Soarer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,980 ✭✭✭Soarer


    I'm not getting into EV ownership either.

    You commented that the OP couldn't count and used figures to back that up.
    I used the OP's updated/reduced mileage figures to confirm you figures, which also confirmed the OP can count.


  • #50
    650Ginge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 900 ✭✭✭650Ginge


    Soarer wrote: »
    I'm not getting into EV ownership either.

    You commented that the OP couldn't count and used figures to back that up.
    I used the OP's updated/reduced mileage figures to confirm you figures, which also confirmed the OP can count.

    Yeah whatever Soarer....YOU ARE RIGHT....ALWAYS.


  • #51
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    650Ginge wrote: »
    Soarer I have no gripe with electric cars, but I don't have one, so I am not getting into the cost of them. I will leave that to those that do. But the OP's post above is ambiguous at least to me.

    In any case he chopped quite a bit off the kms in a later post. I think to get the best answer there must be reality in the figures....recording the real figures will give a much better answer to the prospective EV buyer than this guess work.

    Perhaps together we could all work on a spreadsheet that will work out the cost of an EV versus ICE. Whilst that will not stop incorrect and over inflated figures being put in it will allow people who are accurate to get an accurate answer.

    I am sure some of you already have such a spreadsheet and maybe we could make it public on google sheets.
    I attempted it on this thread, but I double counted depreciation and loan repayments, where there should be an offset to include for built up equity - which is possibly over 2k in my case.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=104085452


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