Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119641417#Comment_119641417

Absolutely, but the problem is that the NTA have their heads in the sand and are not responding to it.

They are now all set to launch another phase of BusConnects which will require more drivers, while the operating companies don’t have the staff to operate the existing service.

It is all well and good issuing fines to the operating companies, but if the problem is ongoing then a schedule that can be delivered needs to be implemented.

Leaving customers to play Russian roulette as to whether buses will or won’t operate is frankly disgraceful, and it needs to be addressed.

They will just end up destroying passenger confidence and losing people back to their cars, which is what is happening already.

We are getting to crisis point with this. GAI seems to be in operational meltdown and DB & BE are experiencing serious problems in delivering the advertised services.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119641462#Comment_119641462

Absolutely. The implementation of the Bus Connects network redesign should be put on hold until the current staffing shortages at least ease somewhat.

Again the problem with the NTA is its being run by lifelong civil servants none of which have public transport operational experience.

dublinman1990

I will dread to think how GAI will run the new Southern Orbitals, which is after the G-Spine, either later on this year or within the start of next year. The S8 bus which will operate in my part of Dublin from that point on will probably have the same length or running time issues as the 75/75a which may or may not resolved in time once the L25 gets to launch with Dublin Bus at the same time.

Could these same issues with running times not being met be a problem while GAI has the 17 being changed into the S6?

GAI could be coming across more issues in the interim as to how their drivers, either new or old, will get trained how to run these this new routes. These major issues being highlighted within GAI at the moment could signal the probability of how their other routes are getting cancelled along the rest of their Dublin City network.

And then you have the other issue of GAI having to run the S4 among all of those other problems which could make the issue of staff shortages even worse in the short term.

d51984

Go Ahead to get a least 8 further SG type double deckers from Dublin Bus over the next week or so. I have the SG fleet numbers but misplaced them, will update later. These will replace streetlites which are moving elsewhere.

Also a lot of talk of a mini depo / parking area in Clonshaugh so watch this space.

d51984

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Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119640993#Comment_119640993

Agreed. Dublin Bus knew what they were doing. GAI and NTA hadnt a clue. Pre GAI there was only a handful of 185 buses into Palermo in Bray everyday. GAI came in and made it every half hour and made every hourly bus from Enniskerry divert througn Palermo. Both completely unneecessary and stupid.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119641462#Comment_119641462

Definitely. People on 45a, 184, 185 routes are abandoning buses to use their cars in droves

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119658269#Comment_119658269

Is this fleet transfer not to facilitate the expansion of southside orbital routes S4, S6 and S8?

(I am ignoring the elephant in the room of there being insufficient drivers).

john boye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119662661#Comment_119662661

That was the NTA who changed the routing, not the operator.

dublinman1990

If the Streetlites are leaving GAI soon; I would assume if this is for the launch of the S routes. Are the Streetlites going to the L25 with Dublin Bus?

DaBluBoi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664155#Comment_119664155

Highly doubt it. Single EVs are to come in about the same time that phase launches. I find it more likely for them to go towards Carlow

Also GAI are to get a bunch of SGs for the S routes, look at d51984's list above

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664560#Comment_119664560

I’d imagine that the Athlone buses will be going to Carlow.

I suspect that someone got the wrong end of the stick about why the SGs are going to GAI.

LXFlyer

Fines issued to all Dublin PSO operators for poor performance:

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/dublin-bus-luas-and-go-ahead-fined-5m-for-delays-and-no-shows-42016226.html

LUAS - €2.67m

Dublin Bus - €1.5m

GAI - €850k

Proportionately that is a massive fine for GAI considering it operates only 10% of the bus service in the city.

DaBluBoi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665407#Comment_119665407

? How else are they to expand their fleet for the next phase, then? Unless if the increase will be handled by DB?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665678#Comment_119665678

Exactly but another poster suggested that the SGs were to replace Streetlites which I think is incorrect - I’ve quoted the post below.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119658269#Comment_119658269

I would be inclined to believe that the transfers are to cover the expansion of the southside orbitals. I can’t see the Streetlites going anywhere.

mikeybhoy

I used to hear a lot of complaints about capacity issues on the 102 and to a lesser extent the 184 and 270 due to the use of single deckers. I don't see those complaints so much anymore at least not since covid.

mikeybhoy

Maybe of interest to some here https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/dublin-bus-luas-and-go-ahead-fined-5m-for-delays-and-no-shows-42016226.html

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665424#Comment_119665424

It's what we have been saying to you all along - the cancellations are way worse on Go Ahead than Dublin Bus except you wouldnt listen but look all of their contract fines are actually €1.15 million and not 850k

Dublin Bus, Luas, and Go-Ahead fined collective €5m over delays and cancellations - Dublin Live

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119678054#Comment_119678054

I did listen, and I never said DB were worse than GAI, but I said there were significant problems at Dublin Bus as well.

Their performance got far worse as the summer progressed and I fully expect DB to be hit with much larger fines in Q3.

Just to note that the larger GAI figure includes commuter routes to Kildare and Offaly.

My main concern in all of this is for the NTA to focus on service delivery. Issuing fines is all well and good, but people will lose any faith in public transport if they can’t rely on the services.

The NTA need to front up to customers, and apologise and start coming up with schedules that can work. At the moment they’re digging their heads in the sand.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119678078#Comment_119678078

If the figures are correct GAIs deductions on the DCOM contract are something like 210,000 in Q1 and 640,000 in Q2

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119678169#Comment_119678169

And probably 50% more in Q3!

mikeybhoy

Go-Ahead's Enviro 200 MMCs used on route 197 have been swapped with Streetlites they've gotten from Metrobus over in the UK. They are in Ballymount and are in the new TFI livery as opposed to the livery used on the 197 so it's unclear if they'll be used solely on the 197 or if they'll see service on Dublin city routes.

mikeybhoy

Looks like they've been given a one year extension https://www.irishtimes.com/transport/2022/10/31/go-ahead-bus-contract-extended-despite-complaints-and-dissatisfaction-with-service/

p_haugh

Not surprised given the fact that the NTA has their hands full, especially with the bus connects rollout. Last thing they want is also trying to sort out a replacement for GAI on top of it

d51984

Very strange that they have repainted their own streetlites in to full NTA livery, my understanding was that some streetlites were been replaced with ex Dublin Bus SG,s but as LXFlyer mentioned these are most likely for expansion.

john boye

If the SGs are for expansion then how is it strange that they're repainting streetlites if they're keeping them?

d51984

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119815905#Comment_119815905

They are repainting 'Their Own' streetlites they imported from the UK, not the NTA owned ones.

This is a shorter Streetlite owned by Go Ahead, look at the interior. Strange that they have painted it in to TFI livery since its not NTA owned.

(Photo Robert McGuirk)

LXFlyer

Why is it strange?

They are there to operate the 197 route which is being operated on behalf of the NTA.

mikeybhoy

Wonder are they going to be using these on the 197 exclusively or will they be used on Dublin city routes too.

I know the 197 gets Streetlites from time to time so could these could allow a bit more flexibility however I'd say these have manual ramps as with a lot of non TFL buses over in the UK which could be problematic for city work combined with the lack of Autofare. Unless GAI plan on retrofitting automatic ramps and autofare to these buses.

I still don't understand why the 197 isn't a regular Dublin city route.

d51984

I know in my Dublin bus days it was a big huge no no to leave the cab, so Ide say its the same with Go Ahead. If these are exclusively for route 197 then should be ok as its not really a Dublin city route so would be like a Bus Eireann Dublin city commuter route if that makes sense.