Heavyweight Boxing

nacho libre · 25-03-2020 6:12pm

walshb wrote: »

I know...I trust none of them.

All we know for sure is that Fury and Fury were found with elevated levels of a banned substance..

Served his time....

But, if shown that he was trying to tamper, which is the angle UKad are going at, them he could well face more banning...

He seems to be very quiet of late.

squinn2912 · 25-03-2020 7:35pm

squinn2912 wrote: »

Great thread

Super thread. Haven’t had much time to be on it but I will

squinn2912 · 25-03-2020 7:36pm

nacho libre wrote: »

He seems to be very quiet of late.

Not really he had two videos up on Monday about the lockdown and training at home

Morrison J · 22-04-2020 6:27pm

[HTML][/HTML]This is a great listen. Emmanuel Steward going through the top heavyweights in history.

Panthro · 07-05-2020 9:31pm

Iron Mike seen back in training. Evander wants to fight again.
Is this real life version of "Grudge Match"

squinn2912 · 07-05-2020 10:25pm

Panthro wrote: »

Iron Mike seen back in training. Evander wants to fight again.
Is this real life version of "Grudge Match"

With all this going on I’d love to see that fight. Test them both, 6 cornermen and a ref. Get Mick to announce from distance and we can all watch it

US2 · 07-05-2020 10:43pm

squinn2912 wrote: »

With all this going on I’d love to see that fight. Test them both, 6 cornermen and a ref. Get Mick to announce from distance and we can all watch it

The winner could fight big john fury

squinn2912 · 07-05-2020 11:09pm

US2 wrote: »

The winner could fight big john fury

Balls to that. Maybe Lewis but I’d be more interested ina one off. Don’t want to see any of them take too many more hits

US2 · 08-05-2020 12:33am

squinn2912 wrote: »

Balls to that. Maybe Lewis but I’d be more interested ina one off. Don’t want to see any of them take too many more hits

I know lad, I was taking the piss. John Fury has a video floating about of him calling out mike.
Honestly I wouldnt like to see mike fight again atall. 53. Took enough punishment on his brain already. I listen to his podcast alot, doesn't seem like he has any hunger for it atall. A pure exhibition is what itll be

yourdeadwright · 08-05-2020 10:19am

US2 wrote: »

I know lad, I was taking the piss. John Fury has a video floating about of him calling out mike.
Honestly I wouldnt like to see mike fight again atall. 53. Took enough punishment on his brain already. I listen to his podcast alot, doesn't seem like he has any hunger for it atall. A pure exhibition is what itll be

Have to agree Mike should stay away from the ring even exhibition fights,
Great to see him looking in shape again but no need to actually fight he has given his all to boxing and the fans no more is needed ,

I'm blaming Kuggan for the whole John Fury thing he gave Mick Theo the platform to challenge John and backed John into a corner he had to reply ,To do that to a man in his 50's is a disgrace,

The big issue is it could turn horrible nasty as both men have dodgy pasts and it looks like its no got personal ,

Panthro · 21-05-2020 4:31pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtT4x1oPMqA

He's in great shape in fairness.

yourdeadwright · 21-05-2020 5:03pm

Panthro wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtT4x1oPMqA

He's in great shape in fairness.

Good for him to be looking fit and healthy but in no way should that encourage him to get back into a boxing ring ,
Mike should stick to hitting mits and shadow boxing for his own mental and psychical shape in the future ,

walshb · 28-05-2020 3:22pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Good for him to be looking fit and healthy but in no way should that encourage him to get back into a boxing ring ,
Mike should stick to hitting mits and shadow boxing for his own mental and psychical shape in the future ,

He's a pardoy act these past years.

No idea why the nut gets so much air time...

Panda Killa · 28-05-2020 6:02pm

walshb wrote: »

He's a pardoy act these past years.

No idea why the nut gets so much air time...

Because he will go down as 1 of the top 5 heavyweights of all in time in any boxing experts book....
his career was one of brutal savagery inside and outside the ring.....his demeanour still commands respect...and if he went in against a Shannon Briggs...or a David Price this evening he'd make mincemeat of them.

Blaze420 · 28-05-2020 6:31pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Good for him to be looking fit and healthy but in no way should that encourage him to get back into a boxing ring ,
Mike should stick to hitting mits and shadow boxing for his own mental and psychical shape in the future ,

Have you paid attention to his speed and power even now? He’d kill 99.9% of the opposition in that shape.

Morrison J · 28-05-2020 6:39pm

Panda Killa wrote: »

Because he will go down as 1 of the top 5 heavyweights of all in time in any boxing experts book....

Don't think that's true at all.

Ali, Louis, Foreman, Lennox and Holyfield for me definitely over him as the top 5. Frazier, Holmes and Tyson interchangeable after that for me but definitely a tier below.

Panda Killa · 28-05-2020 7:44pm

Morrison J wrote: »

Don't think that's true at all.

Ali, Louis, Foreman, Lennox and Holyfield for me definitely over him as the top 5. Frazier, Holmes and Tyson interchangeable after that for me but definitely a tier below.

2 of the last 3 words of my quote are very important

Morrison J · 28-05-2020 8:21pm

Panda Killa wrote: »

2 of the last 3 words of my quote are very important

Name some of these boxing experts so. I'd actually wager that more people have Tyson outside the top 10 than inside the top 5. There's literally little to no argument for him being top 5.

walshb · 28-05-2020 8:23pm

Blaze420 wrote: »

Have you paid attention to his speed and power even now? He’d kill 99.9% of the opposition in that shape.

Not sure how to respond here...

Facepalm comes to mind..

Only chance he would have is a puncher’s chance. But at 53, he is not even punching as hard. And I’d give the same punchers chance to any decent hitting heavyweight operating today..

He’d be blowing out of his arse and falling over himself after 2 minutes of fighting!!!

walshb · 28-05-2020 8:24pm

Morrison J wrote: »

Name some of these boxing experts so. I'd actually wager that more people have Tyson outside the top 10 than inside the top 5. There's literally little to no argument for him being top 5.

I personally have him top 5 all at peak in a one off tournament..

eagle eye · 28-05-2020 8:29pm

walshb wrote:

No idea why the nut gets so much air time...

He gets it because he is one of the biggest names in the history of sport.
Only Ali, Jordan, Woods and Babe Ruth were/are bigger names. I might be missing a couple of others but there's not many in the US that are as famous as him.

normanoffside · 28-05-2020 8:30pm

walshb wrote: »

I personally have him top 5 all at peak in a one off tournament..

I know we don't want to get into this debate again (we've all been there a million times) but one of fight at 'peak' is not how GOAT lists are made.
It's the body of work over a whole career that is judged.

For that reason Tyson slips outside the top 5 in almost all experts lists (in many cases also outside the top 10).

walshb · 28-05-2020 8:32pm

eagle eye wrote: »

He gets it because he is one of the biggest names in the history of sport.
Only Ali, Jordan, Woods and Babe Ruth were/are bigger names. I might be missing a couple of others but there's not many in the US that are as famous as him.

Yes, in his prime he was D man on the global sporting stage..

Today and recently, he is a sad sight. Him and his smoking weed and just being a complete odd ball..

Oh, and his rape conviction...

Anyway, the world is awash with pathetic mediocrity and parody these days, so I guess it’s no real surprise after all.

walshb · 28-05-2020 8:36pm

normanoffside wrote: »

I know we don't want to get into this debate again (we've all been there a million times) but one of fight at 'peak' is not how GOAT lists are made.
It's the body of work over a whole career that is judged.

For that reason Tyson slips outside the top 5 in almost all experts lists (in many cases also outside the top 10).

Nobody said one fight. Tyson has a 3-4 year peak. Utter domination and destruction. Had he retired pre Douglas he would have accomplished a lot more than many so called greats, like Tunney and Dempsey and Johnson, and even Marciano..

Some of the list you “speak” of have guys like Tunney and Liston ahead of him. Utter garbage.

Tyson has circa 13 WC wins as a HW...well up there...

I can only think of Ali, Louis, Wlad, Holmes, Lewis and Holyfield as having similar and more wins as champion..possibly others, but haven’t checked..

Morrison J · 28-05-2020 8:42pm

walshb wrote: »

I personally have him top 5 all at peak in a one off tournament..

That's a bit of a different argument though. Ranking them in terms of greatness at heavyweight you have to take longetivity and quality of wins into account. There's no real argument for Tyson cracking the top 5.

walshb · 28-05-2020 8:49pm

Morrison J wrote: »

That's a bit of a different argument though. Ranking them in terms of greatness at heavyweight you have to take longetivity and quality of wins into account. Tyson doesn't come close to breaking into the top 5.

Well. I have him top 5 any way..

Who beats him to position 5?

Ok, you got Ali and Louis as definite top 5..

Who are the other certainties?

Lewis? Holyfield? Holmes? Wlad? Dempsey? Tunney? Liston? Foreman? Frazier?

I would have definitely ahead Dempsey and Tunney and Liston..

I think he knocks Wlad out every time, so head to head is factored in.

I think he knocks Holmes out every time. Bad bad style for Holmes. So head to head also factored here.

Foreman? I think Tyson has several more championship wins...this is factored in

Same for Liston and Frazier...

I think a strong and credible argument can be made for Tyson’s inclusion in the top 5; at least as credible as for some others..

Morrison J · 28-05-2020 8:50pm

walshb wrote: »

Not sure how to respond here...

Facepalm comes to mind..

Only chance he would have is a puncher’s chance. But at 53, he is not even punching as hard. And I’d give the same punchers chance to any decent hitting heavyweight operating today..

He’d be blowing out of his arse and falling over himself after 2 minutes of fighting!!!

His peak was 30 years ago. I actually struggle to imagine how bad Tyson would be in the ring now.

normanoffside · 28-05-2020 9:14pm

Mike looks very lean in those videos. I doubt he is even a heavyweight now.

walshb · 28-05-2020 9:21pm

normanoffside wrote: »

Mike looks very lean in those videos. I doubt he is even a heavyweight now.

He’s supposedly 230 lbs!

Morrison J · 28-05-2020 9:25pm

walshb wrote: »

Well. I have him top 5 any way..

Who beats him to position 5?

Ok, you got Ali and Louis as definite top 5..

Who are the other certainties?

Lewis? Holyfield? Holmes? Wlad? Dempsey? Tunney? Liston? Foreman? Frazier?

I would have definitely ahead Dempsey and Tunney and Liston..

I think he knocks Wlad out every time, so head to head is factored in.

I think he knocks Holmes out every time. Bad bad style for Holmes. So head to head also factored here.

Foreman? I think Tyson has several more championship wins...this is factored in

Same for Liston and Frazier...

I think a strong and credible argument can be made for Tyson’s inclusion in the top 5; at least as credible as for some others..

I have Ali, Louis, Foreman, Lewis and Holyfield as a clear top 5.

I don't see the argument for putting Tyson over Holyfield. Holyfield won the H2H, got the better wins, had more longetivity.

Foreman's comeback has a massive effect on his legacy obviously. I think he has better wins than Tyson too.

I have Tyson, Holmes and Frazier in a similar bracket outside the top 5. Tyson is nearly underrated these days because it's got so fashionable to talk him down. Holmes is the opposite. Seems to be the hipster pick these days to say he's a top 3 heavyweight etc. Don't see any argument for him being top 5 tbh. Not enough good wins against prime fighters.

Agree Tyson would probably beat Holmes. Holmes could be hurt and although he had those great powers of recuperation, I think Tyson is too good a finisher to let him off the hook.

Lennox beat everyone he faced. Is so versatile and a H2H nightmare for any heavyweight. In terms of textbook defence (stuff like judging of distance, ability to parry shots, use of feet) he's second only to Ali for me. His chin is nowhere near as bad as advertised either. Probably faced more big punchers than anyone in heavyweight history bar Ali too.

I'd honestly have no problem with Tyson being ranked anywhere from #6 all time. I think there's a sizable gap after the top 5 though and can't see the argument for him getting in there personally.

Heavyweight Boxing

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