Heavyweight Boxing

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122167628#Comment_122167628

You know what the problem with your proposal is? It makes sense!

GHendrix

I agree that boxing is completely littered with pointless rematches. Joyce Zhang quickly comes to mind. Fury Wilder 3. Just about everyone vs Chisora.

But I’ll gladly make an exception when there’s a close fight between the divisions 2 top contenders.

What’s equally frustrating is nobody is actually really pushing to earn a shot. AJ is taking easy enough fights. Wilder was way too inactive for too long. Same for Ruiz.

walshb

I wonder will Fury's mind and body still want and be up for an October rematch. Of course, every fighter immediately after, and days after is all rematch rematch; but when days/weeks sink in, that desire can wane

OmegaGene

Aj must be bored having to wait until September

Brief_Lives

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122168144#Comment_122168144

True.

I think Fury has to take it though as I'll only remember him, in a few years, as the guy that beat Wilder after rising from the grave from a killer punch and who avoided AJ for 5 years.

Also, from above burtner's suggestion that automatic rematches should be done away with, totally agree.

eeepaulo

To be fair if october 12/13 is the official date of the rematch (bricktop confirmed it yesterday) then hell yes, its not that long really, get that fight on, get take a knee against hgrovic then winner fight joshua in september, then AJ winner for all the marbles after that.

GHendrix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122168159#Comment_122168159

Fury avoiding AJ… haha!

Fury was busy winning fights while AJ was getting slapped around by the fat Mexican and Usyk and having mental breakdowns.

squinn2912

On that rematch issue AJ was lucky he had his clauses. If he’d dropped down a few places he’d have been a long time wearing belts again. Well beaten in all of those defeats. Really well made point btw.

October is the sweet spot for Fury. He will need a month of recovery and then a good 12 week programme. His super nutritionist will have had loadsa time to wave his wand as well. I can’t have that glory grabber. Usyk will have a couple of kebabs and then back training. Fury has a fair physical and mental hill to climb now knowing that Usyk will be fitter, sharper, better boxer and now knows he can hurt him too. It will be a big test to see if he has the bravery to go for it and risk gassing because that’s when Usyk is an absolute killer.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122168279#Comment_122168279

Yes, and AJ acting the maggot not signing Fury's 7 days to sign contract special

GHendrix

I’m actually not sure we’ll ever even see AJ Fury at this point.

If Fury loses to Usyk again then I think he retires or maybe has a rebuild year like AJs 2023. He’d be mad to go from back to back losses to another big fight immediately with AJ. If he wins, they’ll do a trilogy and who knows beyond that.

If AJ picks up another loss against the likes of Hrgovic etc, then it’s pretty pointless for Fury or Usyk to fight AJ again. There would be more demand for them to fight Hrgovic.

It’s still possible but I think quite a few things would need to align. And it will probably be a past prime fight

OmegaGene

best to forget about Aj v fury until they both sort out their opposition

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122168480#Comment_122168480

Can’t argue with his take. Sense!

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122166030#Comment_122166030

Hes up there alright

Very hard to says who's the best , Traditionally HW & CW are the two shallowest divisions,

Canelo for example is a 4 weight champion so stuff like that is hard to argue with,

There is the argument that he is in there because he gives up so much weight being a small HW in today's game but to be a big 250 plus HW your giving up strengths such as speed, movement , gas tank , These things don't go missing as much if your coming from LWW up to Super middle for example ,

P4P is just opinions really ,

squinn2912

Yea it’s in danger now that AJ Fury turns out to be a Kahn Brook or a Tyson Lewis when one or both are so past it that it’s not at all the same fight any more.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122168643#Comment_122168643

It is opinions, but for a CW to move up and unify against two clearly bigger and talented men, in AJ and Fury, and the manner of his wins, and him being undefeated, as well as winning all HW fights to date…..he deserves top spot

Fury is by far a better win than anyone Canelo has beaten, including the great John Ryder!!!

ebbsy

If the ref had stopped that fight….

Fury would have said it was a premature stoppage. He would say he wasn't put down.

The ref gave us a definitive conclusion. I am on his side.

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122168657#Comment_122168657

I'm not sure but it is close ,

Fury & Aj his only big wins at HW, On paper 2 split decisions in 3 fights ,

Bit disingenuous to mention Ryder , when you could say Chaz Weatherspoon ,

IS Fury more impressive than Triple G ?

walshb

On second viewing of the fight, Usyk really did a lot of good body-work that may not have been getting the credit it deserved, and it likely was taking its toll on Fury's gas tank. First three rds, which I gave to Usyk, was mainly because body work and pressure

squinn2912

The argument I would have with Canelo is that he really bided his time and had very little interest in GGG until he was about 35 and I really think the first fight was a robbery. Usyk fought them all in their own backyards. He went up to HW and he took a couple of warm ups and then straight in for the big ones. After the Chisora fight he was asked about his performance and he was very disappointed in himself. The follow up question was would he be able to become a HW champion to which he replied “undisputed” the guy is just fantastic. Right now P4P I think it’s a toss up between him and Inoue and I’m wafer thin for Usyk

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122168868#Comment_122168868

For Usyk to beat and overcome Fury they way he did, yes, absolutely Fury "better" than GGG. Far more difficult task for Usyk. And most folks had GGG a winner fight 1….I had it 7-4-1 to GGG; even if eagle eye couldn't see that!!

Add in AJ fight 1 win, where most here, me and you included were quite confident that AJ wins.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122168931#Comment_122168931

I like Inoue, and he has won in multiple classes, but who really has been bigger and heavier and stronger? He has not beaten anyone as dangerous as AJ and Fury (for the far smaller Usyk). Inoue still needs a real signature win. These weight classes go up in 3-4 lbs these days. It's eff all. His best win is arguably a shot to bits Donaire, who was coming down in weight. Inoue is 5 feet 6 and 30/31. He was always going to be moving up in weight from his far younger years.

squinn2912

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122168974#Comment_122168974

That;s fair enough and he is welded to Tokyo. The way he does it is so good to watch so I’d stick to what I said, wafer thin for Usyk

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122168937#Comment_122168937

Surely GGG at the time was a better fighter than both Fury & AJ ?

Wasn't he like 37-0 with 34 or 35 ko's ,

AJ had recently been beat by Ruiz, Most folks thought Fury lost to Ngannou ,

Lets not forget Usyk had two split decisions wins v Fuy & AJ, Canelo had a majority decision win

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169015#Comment_122169015

GGG was undfeated, but Fury was as well.

Anyway, the point was that Usyk's win over Fury and AJ is a more impressive task than Canelo beating GGG at MW. Canelo was giving away nothing in terms of size really, and also, GGG was on the slide.

Usyk conceded 25or so lbs to AJ and 40 to Fury, and 5 inches height and reach to Fury. He also won….Canelo did not deserve fight 1. No way

Case in point: Canelo moved up 7 lbs and was well beaten by Bivol. Well beaten. And Bivol, albeit very good, is not some great…

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169048#Comment_122169048

Smaller weight differences make huge difference in the lower to mid classes

Guys like AJ & Fury sizes have to give up attributes, speed, footwork Gas tank , You can't be that size & not have issues, When your moving through the mid weight classes guys don't give up those attributes as much, Its simply not how the body works,

Canelo been champ at 154 - Bivol was 174lbs, That a 20 lbs difference that massive to go through at lower/mid weights ,

You say GGG was on the slide where is the evidence of that ? Is it because he didn't knock the Jacobs out but still one easy ? Fury could have been beat by an MMA fighter in his first fight prior to Usyk , AJ got stopped by Ruiz , Its easy to detract looking back

Usyk is defo up there that is for sure , i just don't think i'd have him 1st personally , ,

walshb

Canelo always killing himself at 154. By time he fought GGG, he was proper MW. Same sized men. Bivol handled him easily, and was not too much bigger at all. Bivol ordinary sized LHW

eagle eye

So it appears the IBF title will be on the line in the Hrgovic Vs Dubois fight with the winner facing Joshua in September.

Have to say it's right to strip Usyk in my opinion. Hrgovic has waited a long time and there's no way he should have to wait until 2025 for his shot.

OmegaGene

that was always the plan leading up to the fury v Usyk fight, the reason the fight was scheduled for the date it was after fury was cut was because the ibf had a deadline

Spencer Oliver was saying if Aj beats the winner and then fights the winner of fury v Usyk 2 there’s another undisputed on the cards

squinn2912

I’m not in agreement. Usyk shouldn’t be stripped he’s the one who has been ever ready and chasing the big fight. All that time waiting for undisputed and the best fighting the best and now within a few days we know it’s diluted again. Pain in the ass.

walshb

I’d expect AJ to hammer Dubous if Dubois wins. I think he’d also be a solid favorite vs Filip, but bit less sure.