Heavyweight Boxing

selectamatic

Based on last nights level of movement and snap to the jab AJ should be near able to stick with Fury in the jab department too.

squinn2912

selectamatic wrote: »

Based on last nights level of movement and snap to the jab AJ should be near able to stick with Fury in the jab department too.

Disagree. He was jabbing a guy who moves like a bus. His combos would trouble fury. Essentially his tactics would be very different to last night

selectamatic

squinn2912 wrote: »

Disagree. He was jabbing a guy who moves like a bus. His combos would trouble fury. Essentially his tactics would be very different to last night

Not saying they wouldn't be just pointing out that he could mix it with fury in the jab department.

He's out jabbed wlad for 4 rounds too before all hell broke loose. And all of his other opponents have struggled with his jab too.

Joshua has always had a very good jab.

squinn2912

selectamatic wrote: »

Not saying they wouldn't be just pointing out that he could mix it with fury in the jab department.

He's out jabbed wlad for 4 rounds too before all hell broke loose. And all of his other opponents have struggled with his jab too.

Joshua has always had a very good jab.

Fair enough. For me the jab is there to frustrate and keep your opponent off you. AJ gets hit too much for that. I’m really starting to believe the Daniel Dubois rumors now!

Alf Veedersane

squinn2912 wrote: »

Disagree. He was jabbing a guy who moves like a bus. His combos would trouble fury. Essentially his tactics would be very different to last night

Yup. For a start, he wouldn't be using his jab to keep a dangerous puncher at distance because he'd have the shorter reach. And Fury is a less dangerous puncher.

Whether or not Joshua is good enough to beat Wilder or Fury remains to be seen but there's zero point on trying to judge his chances off his performance last night which was a specific gameplan for a specific fighter.

squinn2912

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Yup. For a start, he wouldn't be using his jab to keep a dangerous puncher at distance because he'd have the shorter reach. And Fury is a less dangerous puncher.

Whether or not Joshua is good enough to beat Wilder or Fury remains to be seen but there's zero point on trying to judge his chances off his performance last night which was a specific gameplan for a specific fighter.

This makes sense. The question remaining is if AJ is afraid of being hit. He gets 9/10 fir executing the game plan but he didn’t need to be especially good. Other than the fact that he was fighting a KFC bucket I thought the ref was very quick to halt Ruiz any time he did make inroads

selectamatic

squinn2912 wrote: »

Fair enough. For me the jab is there to frustrate and keep your opponent off you. AJ gets hit too much for that. I’m really starting to believe the Daniel Dubois rumors now!

Jab is there to score effective offense, setup other punches/combos and finally to keep you're opponent off you and them off balance in my opinion.

From what we've seen it's clear any rumour surrounding Aj getting ko'd is pretty believable

Alf Veedersane

squinn2912 wrote: »

This makes sense. The question remaining is if AJ is afraid of being hit. He gets 9/10 fir executing the game plan but he didn’t need to be especially good. Other than the fact that he was fighting a KFC bucket I thought the ref was very quick to halt Ruiz any time he did make inroads

I think he was afraid of giving Ruiz an opening. He's talked about a late KO but when it came to it, he didn't risk anything because he knew he didn't need to but also didn't want to get caught again. I do think the manner of the beating in June had a role in how he never went after a KO last night.

But would he be the same against Wilder which everyone knows has that devastating power that will knock you over? It's possible. He surely knows how vulnerable he is when he starts throwing big punches. Does he think he could out-point Wilder like Ortiz but make it to the end? Or does he try a measured attacking approach.

I've no idea how it plays out between Joshua vs Fury or Wilder but hopefully we find out.

normanoffside

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Yup. For a start, he wouldn't be using his jab to keep a dangerous puncher at distance because he'd have the shorter reach. And Fury is a less dangerous puncher.

Ruiz is not a heavy puncher by any means. His record shows that. I don't know why he is now being hyped up as some kind of Ernie Shavers



AJ must have a seriously bad chin, I think he's fragile and any decent heavyweight can hurt him.

walshb

Someone made the point that AJ fought with fear...

That is exactly how he fought last night..

He got the win. But, he is just not really any kind of special fighter...

Following this sport 35 + years....seen so so much...

Last night was not the sport I love. AJ I think knows deep down that he not a fighter...like he’s living in borrowed time...There was a real fear attitude on display. That’s what it felt to me. And I am one who has praised AJ on this forum more than anyone...

It’s one fight....let’s see what he does in 2020..

Hey, I criticise Fury a lot, but there seems to be more fight and gusto in him...

Alf Veedersane

normanoffside wrote: »

Ruiz is not a heavy puncher by any means. His record shows that. I don't know why he is now being hyped up as some kind of Ernie Shavers

AJ must have a seriously bad chin, I think he's fragile and any decent heavyweight can hurt him.

His record against Joshua is the one that counted most on preparation. Possibly the heaviest shots he's taken. It's all relative. If he has a weak chin it'll be shown up in the bigger fights.

Besides, I just said Ruiz is a more dangerous puncher than Fury, which isn't that outlandish a statement.

normanoffside

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Besides, I just said Ruiz is a more dangerous puncher than Fury, which isn't that outlandish a statement.

I'm not saying your statement is outlandish, but Ruiz is just not a big puncher and never has been.
If AJ fought scared of Ruiz he'll be scared of anyone hitting him, Fury included.

Alf Veedersane

normanoffside wrote: »

I'm not saying your statement is outlandish, but Ruiz is just not a big puncher and never has been.
If AJ fought scared of Ruiz he'll be scared of anyone hitting him, Fury included.

Joshua only knows what he felt against Ruiz the first time. If Ruiz knocking him means he has a weak chin, he'll be found out against better fighters.

I alluded to him potentially fighting Wilder with the same fear and gameplan of avoiding being hit. I think he'd be less concerned about Fury, rightly or wrongly.

Bobby Baccala

walshb wrote: »

Someone made the point that AJ fought with fear...

That is exactly how he fought last night..

He got the win. But, he is just not really any kind of special fighter...

Following this sport 35 + years....seen so so much...

Last night was not the sport I love. AJ I think knows deep down that he not a fighter...like he’s living in borrowed time...There was a real fear attitude on display. That’s what it felt to me. And I am one who has praised AJ on this forum more than anyone...

It’s one fight....let’s see what he does in 2020..

Hey, I criticise Fury a lot, but there seems to be more fight and gusto in him...

Do you think a similar gameplan would work against Wilder?

walshb

Bobby Baccala wrote: »

Do you think a similar gameplan would work against Wilder?

Could. But quite risky...

Plus, Wilder has real height and reach..

squinn2912

walshb wrote: »

Could. But quite risky...

Plus, Wilder has real height and reach..

Much more agile feet too. He doesn’t try to smother he wants the space. Huge reach. Wasn’t much aura about Joshua last night. Didn’t look a dangerous fighter but again, underestimate him at your peril

Bobby Baccala

walshb wrote: »

Could. But quite risky...

Plus, Wilder has real height and reach..

It's the only gameplan he could have against Wilder that doesn't 100% guarantee him being knocked out I reckon, still don't think he could pull it off at that.

walshb

Bobby Baccala wrote: »

It's the only gameplan he could have against Wilder that doesn't 100% guarantee him being knocked out I reckon, still don't think he could pull it off at that.

Agreed...

AJs best chance against Wilder is to start fast and try KO Wilder..

dougm1970

i think joshua splits with mccracken soon.....i dunno...only basing it on body language between them last night.....a.j. thanked a lot of people and mccracken was down the list like an afterthought, mccracken arrived after joshua to post fight conference and looked subdued...and in interviews i am looking at today he looks even less un-animated than usual.
i dunno...maybe i'm wrong..maybe theres other videos to contradict me...i just sense a distance between them.

squinn2912

dougm1970 wrote: »

i think joshua splits with mccracken soon.....i dunno...only basing it on body language between them last night.....a.j. thanked a lot of people and mccracken was down the list like an afterthought, mccracken arrived after joshua to post fight conference and looked subdued...and in interviews i am looking at today he looks even less un-animated than usual.
i dunno...maybe i'm wrong..maybe theres other videos to contradict me...i just sense a distance between them.

You may well be on to something there but I thought if the split were to come then it would’ve been after the loss. After this “master class” how could he split with his trainer?
There were a few references though to changes made that weren’t McCracken’s idea on Sky

blade1

Don't know what a new trainer could do for him.

fonecrusher1

Lot of people are saying AJ was the smart boxer last night, safety foremost in his strategy. This is not the stuff of a great champion or great fights. I know yes great boxing does have strategy to a degree but so calculated, rehearsed and robotic was his performance last night I found myself losing interest.

Say what you want about Wilder and Fury but they box with some form of personal autonomy at least.

selectamatic

No Fury boxes even moreso on the side of safety.

If Fury put in that exact performance last night against Ruiz we would be listening to how he is an absolute technician.

Just to add I'm not for one second saying this type of performance is what I love to see. But a win is a win anyone trying to take that away from AJ is clutching at straws.

walshb

selectamatic wrote: »

No Fury boxes even moreso on the side of safety.

.

Yes, but last night there just seemed to be that real fear element in the performance, against an absolute slob...Fury just boxes the way he boxes, but it’s more authoritative and assured and confident....

selectamatic

walshb wrote: »

Yes, but last night there just seemed to be that real fear element in the performance, against an absolute slob...Fury just boxes the way he boxes, but it’s more authoritative and assured and confident....

Against a fighter that previously had him down 4 times though. So fear of that would be understandable.

Fury's style is still born out of fear. No matter how confident he looks. He tasted heavy leather early in his career and realised he didn't like it.

Thus we now have fury the range technician.

It's pretty clear Aj has a poor chin so he's gonna be trying to protect that forever more it's not great from the perspective of a fight fan who wants to see all out action in the HW division though but it is what it is.

MD1990

Wilder would KO Joshua.

Joshua done well last night but I think Wilder could take Joshua's best shots.

No chance Jsohua survives a Wilder right hand.

nacho libre

walshb wrote: »

Yes, but last night there just seemed to be that real fear element in the performance, against an absolute slob...Fury just boxes the way he boxes, but it’s more authoritative and assured and confident....

Quite simply he knew if he traded with Ruiz he lost. I just have to question how motivated Ruiz really was for this rematch. It was clear as day as to how Joshua would fight the second time around. Did Ruiz think he had the skills to get inside, or was it that he could not be bothered to slim down even more?
unless he fears by doing so that he will have less pop in his shots and less punch resistance, then i have to wonder it if just went to his head being champion.

pkvader

Id say Fury v AJ would be dull as dishwater,at least with Wilder involved you know someones getting chinned ,including Wilder himself.

Id love to see Chisora v Wilder,couldn't give a bollix type of a fight,just firing off wild shots until someone gets laid out!

Mantis Toboggan

MD1990 wrote: »

Wilder would KO Joshua.

Joshua done well last night but I think Wilder could take Joshua's best shots.

No chance Jsohua survives a Wilder right hand.

In fairness I don't think anyone could survive a Wilder right hand.

walshb

I would be just as confident that Wilder is flattened if AJ lands his best shot(s). Both very heavy hitters. Both have dodgy beards, albeit, AJ has shown it more, to date!

Guys, it’s a 3 rds max shootout!!!